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This news story from Segodnya is interesting. It says that in 2002 there was an incident involving Igor Suprunyuck at his school, which was described officially as bullying, but people at the school said that it was a rape. The incident led to Suprunyuck being moved to another school. Local residents said that if this incident had been handed over to the police, the 2007 killings would have been prevented. No charges were brought, and Suprunyuck's father was accused of using his influence to get the matter dropped.
There are some WP:BLP issues here, and Igor Suprunyuck would have been around fourteen at the time, which seems young for a rape allegation. Nevertheless, the incident shows that Suprunyuck's behaviour was causing concern long before the 2007 wave of killings. Here is a new picture showing Igor Suprunyuck in court, with his father Vladimir and Igor Sayenko on the right.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 19:22, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
Just found this recent news item [1], it contains images of a girl posing with dead animals (The images in question are gruesome), the article also mentions the murders in Dneproeptrovsk, I'm somewhat confused as to if these cases are related or not.
-- TardisShell ( talk) 11:02, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I find it ironic how the article shows the same images that were posted on her social networking page, considering the controversy that it caused which the article is mainly about. Indeed I don't think any western media outlet would get away with showing images of that nature, just like the courtroom video which shows images taken by the suspects that were shown on Ukrainian TV, I can't picture BBC News showing images of the culprits flipping off the corpse of one of their victims (Assuming that was one of the victims that Suprunyuk was flipping off). -- TardisShell ( talk) 11:28, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
The part about the appeal was removed, because the wording had become misleading. What the source said was (in Ukrainian): "23 червня Верховний Суд розглядатиме касаційне оскарження." (A cassation appeal will be heard in the Supreme Court on 23 June). That was back in June and nothing has been heard since. It is unclear if the hearing took place, or was delayed, or what the outcome was, so it has been removed for the time being.
One news article that did mention the case was here on 29 August. On 27 August a seven months pregnant woman was stabbed to death in Kotovka, leading to rumours that the Maniacs were on the loose again.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 17:05, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
Cause this city is called Dnipropetrovsk. Ogomemnon ( talk) 20:00, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
Illogic use of bureaucracy, if we should use WP:COMMONNAME the city name in this article should be Dnipropetrovsk (the most common spelling found in the English language coverage of the city) and the name of the criminals Dnepropetrovsk maniacs (the most common spelling found in the English language coverage of the crime). — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 18:41, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
I wrote 'RIP Sergei Yatzenko 1959 - 2007' in the article and it keeps gettign removed, why? I think it is disrespectful not to. -- 90.207.182.19 ( talk) 16:04, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
At last, some news on the appeal, pending since June, in this article from 30 September. The Supreme Court of Ukraine has referred the case back to the Dnepropetrovsk regional court of appeal. The article also mentions that one of the videos was leaked to the Internet (Один из видеороликов попал в интернет) and that the court described the motive as "unhealthy self-assertion" ( «болезненное самоутверждение», still wondering how best to translate this into English).-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 17:51, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
In this Novi Most article, Igor Sayenko says at the October press conference that there was a cover up because the nephew of Nadezhda Deeva was involved. Nadezhda Deeva is the former governor of the Dnepropetrovsk region, and there is a profile of her here [2]. This runs into some WP:BLP issues, and it may be best to see what the court rules at the appeal.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 17:17, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
On 12 January 2009, Caitlin Moran wrote an article in The Times about her reaction to the Yatzenko video. It was here, but is now producing a 404 error and has probably been removed/expired from the site. This is a nuisance, as it is one of the few substantial appearances of the case in the English language media. However, an archive copy can be found here.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 18:12, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't see why the picture of Igor Sayenko is blurred when this page has links to news articles and video reports where his face can clearly be seen. Also any more images that relate to the case would also be an impovement to this article. Thanks.
-- TardisShell ( talk) 16:55, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
In the archive of this talk page there is mention of the alleged co-conspirator, Danila or Dmitriy Kozlov, and how he allegedly sold Suprunyuck a gun. Then there are photos of Suprunyuck and Sayenko posing for photographs with guns (presumably taking turns with the same one). Could these things be related? I know that the gun in the photographs is thought to be a BB gun, but there isn't much information about the one sold to Suprunyuck by Kozlov - could that one be a BB gun? I can't imagine it getting a mention if it was just a BB gun, and if it was a genuine gun is it possible that this is the one seen in the photographs? The identification of it as being a BB gun doesn't seem concrete from what I've read. PCLM ( talk) 17:34, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
It is not clear from this what type the guns were. Also, it appears to say that the kitten was silenced with foam and glue in its mouth rather than duct tape as the article currently says. Any comments on the translation appreciated here.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 18:40, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Not being an expert on Ukrainian law, it is unclear how life sentences work in that country. None of the reports have the court specifying a minimum time in prison, which would happen in some countries. It is also unclear if the courts specified life without the possibility of parole, which would be unusual for defendants who were nineteen years old at the time of the crimes. It would be useful for the article to have some more detail here.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 17:41, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
I think it gives Ukraine a bad reputation, I am not from ukraine but I think it's a bad name for ukrainians, it makes their country look violent and unprotected. -- 90.207.85.113 ( talk) 14:48, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
-- TardisShell ( talk) 19:00, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
I've been reading some of the translated articles relating to Yatzenko's murder, and there are details about the murder which I haven't read in the main Wikipedia article or elsewhere, and which don't appear to correspond with the events captured in the video. For instance, the following article discusses a knife being used to cut off one of his ears and to cut his throat (and even his belly):
http://www.facts.kiev.ua/archive/2009-02-27/94631/index.html
It also mentions that the camera clearly captures "Saenko", but the video in fact shows Suprunyuck, with Sayenko/Saenko always behind the camera.
Is this description of the same man/murder? Are the details just muddled somewhat (such as confusing a knife with a screwdriver), or have we misidentified Yatzenko as the victim in this clip? I think the cutting off of an ear is the main question here; the others can probably be dismissed as confusion about the details of a grainy, low-quality video, but stating that an ear is cut off is a pretty specific thing and don't recall anyone else interpreting the facial torture in that way. Is it possible that the video on the internet has had its original length truncated? That would explain a lot. The misidentification of Sayenko remains puzzling, though, unless there is indeed a longer version which shows him. At the end of the clip the killers return to the body for a "photo-shoot", so it's possible that these events took place at that stage. PCLM ( talk) 12:57, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Without more detail, it is hard to know what to make of this photo.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 21:08, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Only the contents of the Yatzenko and kitten videos are known, although other material may have been shown to the court. Yatzenko's throat is not cut in the infamous Internet video, although other video material depicting events of this kind may exist. Some puzzles remain here, but the description of the Yatzenko video in the article remains accurate.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 14:04, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Through a rough translation the camera man questions if Yatzenko is actually dead or not while walking back to the car, one of them could have slit his throat as a safe measure to make sure that he was dead after the camera stopped rolling. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.178.41.127 ( talk) 17:28, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
I was searching for this wikiarticle but I accidently clicked on Encyclopedia Dramatica article titled "3guys1hammer". I'm surprised that the site displays portions of the video in form of GIF animations without any warning. They also put a stopmotion pics edited in a way that sick people find humouristic. If anyone is a registered user please edit it out of the article. It's not OK to put such content without any warning. 78.131.137.50 ( talk) 02:01, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
The person posing as Hitler in the dead dog photo appears to be Suprunyuck, but the image may have been photoshopped in some way. The black and white image is in a newspaper article here, and contains disturbing content. There is another photo of Suprunyuck posing as Hitler (in colour) in this article. Suprunyuck added captions to some of the photos, notably the one that read "в гробу, я всех вижу... " (I hate all of you...).-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 08:34, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
"в гробу, я всех вижу " actual translation is "in the grave, I see everyone" > just thought to clarify. L.
lol don't mind me..I left Russia when I was 6 so I never ended up being exposed to expressions like this. I just took it as literally. I should have read the previous discussion on this subject. sorry about that.
Fifth grades and Eighth grades I believe to be Americanisms. Most people from other countries will not know what these phrases equate to in terms of child age. Can we not just state their ages so it's something we will all understand?
I recently came across a video where Alexander Hanzha (the guy who did not kill anybody) is beat up really badly. I assumed it was just Ukrainian Police beating him up.. but for some reason there are several places saying that he died in jail?? Mind you, I haven't found anything Legit saying this but I'm just wondering where this idea came from? Has anybody heard anything about it? Wouldn't there be some sort of Russian/Ukrainian news coverage saying that he died? I can read Russian but I don't really know where to look. My computer is English language based so I can only type with English script in search engines. Does that make sense? I'm thinking the whole "dying in jail" thing might be to make people be interested in the website posting the video... but I just really want to know if it has any truth to it? If Hanzha died in jail, I think that would be pretty significant to the article. But like I said, I have no idea if he died.. and personally, I really hope he's still alive. So yeah, sorry I'm new to this thing so please be patient :) Okay, thanks.
Thank you for checking up on it. I think you're right - something more legit would have mentioned it. Take care :)
I was reading this and Vladimir Supruyuck talks about how there is a video clip taken of Hanzha all beaten up . Apparently there were two parts and they were sold for 20гривен. (
http://www.segodnya.ua/interview/10041462.html).
Lenachka25 (
talk)
11:25, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
I was going through all the links/sources at the bottom of the article and something stuck out to me. Twice it is mentioned that Alexander Hanzha was friends with Igor Supruyuck in school, but not Viktor Sayenko. Right now the article says that Hanzha and Sayenko were lifelong friends etc. There are two sources contradicting this :
An interview with Sayenko's father. It's in Russian,the interviewer asks if the kids were all friends and he replies: " My son was never friends with Hanzha- only with Suprunyuck. But Suprunyuck was friends with Hanzha. Although they did all go to school together." ( http://gorod.dp.ua/news/news.php?id=10600)
Then there is the boys' school teacher Natalya Leonidovna who says : "In school Sasha (Hanzha) was friends with Igor, but with Viktor he didn't even communicate. However, what happened to the boys after they finished school I don't know, and can't answer that." ( http://www.segodnya.ua/news/324349.html)
The sources are number 36. and 29. at the bottom of the article. So could somebody find a way to change that? I don't really feel comfortable enough editing/deleting parts of the article because I haven't learned yet how to do it properly. To be honest, I think the correction is important because after reading it, my perception of the three of them changed. It's a whole different dynamic. Lenachka25 ( talk) 08:29, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
This article from Segodnya has a couple of developments worth mentioning. Most of it is about how the parents say their children were framed, and are planning an appeal to the European Court of Human Rights. It also mentions that a Chilean documentary team has made a film about the case. Viktor Pertsev, a local resident, claims to have been the victim of a hammer attack by Suprunyuck and Sayenko on the evening of 25 June 2007, but did not go to the police until after the killers were arrested. He says that two women from a nearby barber's shop called for help and scared away the attackers. Pertsev says that he was struck on the head, and still has memory problems.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 16:31, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
The existence of commercially produced snuff films is usually dismissed as an urban legend, with this Snopes article looking at the claim and finding it to be false. Since Suprunyuck's grinning face is seen clearly in the Yatzenko video, it is hard to imagine him staying free for long with the video available for sale. All the signs point to the video being leaked like the photographs in the Nikki Catsouras photographs controversy. Nevertheless, it is possible that Suprunyuck boasted about making this type of video to his friends, leading to the stories about snuff films.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 14:35, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Well if you guys end up watching it online, could you send me the link to it? I'm kinda wary of it, alot of documentaries turn these kinds of things into like "dun dun dun" events and unknowingly glamorize it but oh well...Chile...that's pretty random *_* Lenachka25 ( talk) 17:58, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm so desperate to see this, especially now that it is known to contain never before seen material, but the download rate and the fact that it contains Yatzenko's video (albeit blurred but presumably with the audio playing?) might just put me off haha. I look forward to any upcoming edits in light of this new material. PCLM ( talk) 14:42, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
I fell asleep last night after watching like 3 second bits of it...it was pretty annoying :( Ah well - I'll try again when I get home...my computer stalled on the closeup of Suprunyuck - all I could see was that NOSE of his - I'm going to have nightmares now *_* Lenachka25 ( talk) 17:47, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
On Monday 2 August 2010, the Chilean television channel Red Televisiva Megavisión broadcast a documentary about the case. It was 1 hour and 25 minutes long, and was notable for including photo and video material from the case that had never been shown publicly before.
It would take too long to describe everything in detail, so I have put together a zip file of screenshots and commentary from the documentary which can be downloaded here (18MB). There is no graphic material in this file, it is mostly previously unseen images of Suprunyuck and Sayenko. The most important aspect of the documentary is that the makers obtained a longer version of the Yatzenko murder video. It shows a period of around half an hour preceding the murder, during which Suprunyuck and Sayenko stand by the roadside next to their taxi, waiting for a victim to arrive, and discussing what they are going to do. Eventually Sergei Yatzenko arrives on a pedal bicycle (not a motorcycle, the article may need a rewrite here) and is knocked off the bicycle before the attack takes place. During this period, the faces of Suprunyuck and Sayenko can be seen clearly.
The article will probably need a full section about the Chilean documentary, and it would be helpful if someone fluent in Spanish could produce a transcript. However, the images and video that were used in the documentary are a key new source of material.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 13:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
Managed to get round to adding this at last. Also, there is a 320 x 240px WMV version of the documentary (282MB) available for download here. This will allow the material added to the article to be checked, and it would also help if someone fluent in Spanish could produce a transcript. The part about Yatzenko's Dnepr motorcycle was tweaked after a look at the source, although there is still a confusing gap as to why he turned up on a pedal bicycle before the attack. The documentary also confirms that it was Alexander Hanzha with a bruised face in the image here, so this has been added to the article.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 15:40, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
Yeah that's weird. mototsikal...viloseped...two different words for two different things. Oh yes, and I also want to say thank you for the link - I was finally able to watch it from beginning to end. I was a bit disappointed with the overall documentary but oh well - it was cool to see more pics of them other than the ones that were already available. I wonder if somebody could translate the Spanish speaking into English and write it out just for us to read? That would be really awesome although I don't know anybody who would be willing to do that in their free time. Once again, thanks for the link Ian :))) Lenachka25 ( talk) 13:04, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm still puzzling about the Dnepr motorcycle, about which the Fakti story is very clear. Either something is inaccurate here, or there is more to the sequence of events that needs to be understood.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 14:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
Here is the audio where Igor Suprunyuck apparently refers to the knife. What do others think about the translation?-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 16:47, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
I think the translation of "bring the knife" or "get the knife" is accurate, because I've read the same translation in two independently-produced transcripts (amateur ones, but they both seem to agree on this point) as well as the subtitles provided by the Chilean documentary. I think the amateur-created subtitled version of the infamous video clip might qualify as a third independent transcription, because as far as I can recall it was made by a different person and isn't identical to the aforementioned transcripts, and this too seems to agree on what is being said with regards to the knife.
Did anyone look at the screenshots I uploaded? I think the wounds visible in them are evidence of a knife being used, and this along with the footage of the killers rifling through the man's pockets seems to be evidence of a second half to the video's runtime. The photographs of Suprunyuck and Sayenko posing with Yatzenko don't show this particular wounding on the corpse, which suggests it was inflicted outside of the time-frame of the original 8-minute clip. If all of this is true, the main article's account of Yatzenko's death needs to be heavily revised. PCLM ( talk) 18:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
By the way, the audio of the "knife" may actually be Sayenko's voice rather than Suprunyuck's, it is hard to make out a lot of the dialogue.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 18:30, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
But we have already established that the video clip preceding the photographs isn't the only footage of the attack. For instance, in the documentary we see the killers take cigarettes from Yatzenko's pockets, something the 8-minute clip doesn't show. The screenshots I uploaded show damage to Yatzenko's stomach which isn't shown in the 8-minute clip nor in the photograph of Suprunyuck posing with the dead body, so this damaged and the footage capturing it had to have been taken after the photographs were shot. All of this corroborates the account in the news article which describes additional damage being done to Yatzenko. I honestly can't figure out why there's any question about this. PCLM ( talk) 19:49, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
Of the three screenshots uploaded at [17], images 2 and 3 are definitely not from the leaked video, although 1 may be. Images 2 and 3 seem to have been deliberately blurred, making it hard to tell how they might fit in with the Yatzenko video. The large open cuts shown in images 2 and 3 would seem to fit in after the leaked attack. The cigarettes are taken from the pocket of Yatzenko at 28:30 in the Chilean documentary, and this moment is not in the leaked video. There may be video footage from both before and after the 7:48 of the leaked Internet video, but it is hard to give a sequence of events without seeing the full video that Michele Canale obtained. However, the article could be rewritten to include the removal of the cigaretttes from the pocket, since this is clearly shown in the Chilean documentary. The ear on the stomach part remains a mystery, as nothing in the Chilean documentary mentioned this even though they had access to a wide range of videos and photographs.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 20:48, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
Are you saying it's "original research" to say there is more than one murder video shown in the documentary? PCLM ( talk) 17:57, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
This news story from Segodnya is interesting. It says that in 2002 there was an incident involving Igor Suprunyuck at his school, which was described officially as bullying, but people at the school said that it was a rape. The incident led to Suprunyuck being moved to another school. Local residents said that if this incident had been handed over to the police, the 2007 killings would have been prevented. No charges were brought, and Suprunyuck's father was accused of using his influence to get the matter dropped.
There are some WP:BLP issues here, and Igor Suprunyuck would have been around fourteen at the time, which seems young for a rape allegation. Nevertheless, the incident shows that Suprunyuck's behaviour was causing concern long before the 2007 wave of killings. Here is a new picture showing Igor Suprunyuck in court, with his father Vladimir and Igor Sayenko on the right.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 19:22, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
Just found this recent news item [1], it contains images of a girl posing with dead animals (The images in question are gruesome), the article also mentions the murders in Dneproeptrovsk, I'm somewhat confused as to if these cases are related or not.
-- TardisShell ( talk) 11:02, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I find it ironic how the article shows the same images that were posted on her social networking page, considering the controversy that it caused which the article is mainly about. Indeed I don't think any western media outlet would get away with showing images of that nature, just like the courtroom video which shows images taken by the suspects that were shown on Ukrainian TV, I can't picture BBC News showing images of the culprits flipping off the corpse of one of their victims (Assuming that was one of the victims that Suprunyuk was flipping off). -- TardisShell ( talk) 11:28, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
The part about the appeal was removed, because the wording had become misleading. What the source said was (in Ukrainian): "23 червня Верховний Суд розглядатиме касаційне оскарження." (A cassation appeal will be heard in the Supreme Court on 23 June). That was back in June and nothing has been heard since. It is unclear if the hearing took place, or was delayed, or what the outcome was, so it has been removed for the time being.
One news article that did mention the case was here on 29 August. On 27 August a seven months pregnant woman was stabbed to death in Kotovka, leading to rumours that the Maniacs were on the loose again.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 17:05, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
Cause this city is called Dnipropetrovsk. Ogomemnon ( talk) 20:00, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
Illogic use of bureaucracy, if we should use WP:COMMONNAME the city name in this article should be Dnipropetrovsk (the most common spelling found in the English language coverage of the city) and the name of the criminals Dnepropetrovsk maniacs (the most common spelling found in the English language coverage of the crime). — Mariah-Yulia • Talk to me! 18:41, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
I wrote 'RIP Sergei Yatzenko 1959 - 2007' in the article and it keeps gettign removed, why? I think it is disrespectful not to. -- 90.207.182.19 ( talk) 16:04, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
At last, some news on the appeal, pending since June, in this article from 30 September. The Supreme Court of Ukraine has referred the case back to the Dnepropetrovsk regional court of appeal. The article also mentions that one of the videos was leaked to the Internet (Один из видеороликов попал в интернет) and that the court described the motive as "unhealthy self-assertion" ( «болезненное самоутверждение», still wondering how best to translate this into English).-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 17:51, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
In this Novi Most article, Igor Sayenko says at the October press conference that there was a cover up because the nephew of Nadezhda Deeva was involved. Nadezhda Deeva is the former governor of the Dnepropetrovsk region, and there is a profile of her here [2]. This runs into some WP:BLP issues, and it may be best to see what the court rules at the appeal.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 17:17, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
On 12 January 2009, Caitlin Moran wrote an article in The Times about her reaction to the Yatzenko video. It was here, but is now producing a 404 error and has probably been removed/expired from the site. This is a nuisance, as it is one of the few substantial appearances of the case in the English language media. However, an archive copy can be found here.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 18:12, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't see why the picture of Igor Sayenko is blurred when this page has links to news articles and video reports where his face can clearly be seen. Also any more images that relate to the case would also be an impovement to this article. Thanks.
-- TardisShell ( talk) 16:55, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
In the archive of this talk page there is mention of the alleged co-conspirator, Danila or Dmitriy Kozlov, and how he allegedly sold Suprunyuck a gun. Then there are photos of Suprunyuck and Sayenko posing for photographs with guns (presumably taking turns with the same one). Could these things be related? I know that the gun in the photographs is thought to be a BB gun, but there isn't much information about the one sold to Suprunyuck by Kozlov - could that one be a BB gun? I can't imagine it getting a mention if it was just a BB gun, and if it was a genuine gun is it possible that this is the one seen in the photographs? The identification of it as being a BB gun doesn't seem concrete from what I've read. PCLM ( talk) 17:34, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
It is not clear from this what type the guns were. Also, it appears to say that the kitten was silenced with foam and glue in its mouth rather than duct tape as the article currently says. Any comments on the translation appreciated here.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 18:40, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
Not being an expert on Ukrainian law, it is unclear how life sentences work in that country. None of the reports have the court specifying a minimum time in prison, which would happen in some countries. It is also unclear if the courts specified life without the possibility of parole, which would be unusual for defendants who were nineteen years old at the time of the crimes. It would be useful for the article to have some more detail here.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 17:41, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
I think it gives Ukraine a bad reputation, I am not from ukraine but I think it's a bad name for ukrainians, it makes their country look violent and unprotected. -- 90.207.85.113 ( talk) 14:48, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
-- TardisShell ( talk) 19:00, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
I've been reading some of the translated articles relating to Yatzenko's murder, and there are details about the murder which I haven't read in the main Wikipedia article or elsewhere, and which don't appear to correspond with the events captured in the video. For instance, the following article discusses a knife being used to cut off one of his ears and to cut his throat (and even his belly):
http://www.facts.kiev.ua/archive/2009-02-27/94631/index.html
It also mentions that the camera clearly captures "Saenko", but the video in fact shows Suprunyuck, with Sayenko/Saenko always behind the camera.
Is this description of the same man/murder? Are the details just muddled somewhat (such as confusing a knife with a screwdriver), or have we misidentified Yatzenko as the victim in this clip? I think the cutting off of an ear is the main question here; the others can probably be dismissed as confusion about the details of a grainy, low-quality video, but stating that an ear is cut off is a pretty specific thing and don't recall anyone else interpreting the facial torture in that way. Is it possible that the video on the internet has had its original length truncated? That would explain a lot. The misidentification of Sayenko remains puzzling, though, unless there is indeed a longer version which shows him. At the end of the clip the killers return to the body for a "photo-shoot", so it's possible that these events took place at that stage. PCLM ( talk) 12:57, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Without more detail, it is hard to know what to make of this photo.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 21:08, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Only the contents of the Yatzenko and kitten videos are known, although other material may have been shown to the court. Yatzenko's throat is not cut in the infamous Internet video, although other video material depicting events of this kind may exist. Some puzzles remain here, but the description of the Yatzenko video in the article remains accurate.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 14:04, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Through a rough translation the camera man questions if Yatzenko is actually dead or not while walking back to the car, one of them could have slit his throat as a safe measure to make sure that he was dead after the camera stopped rolling. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.178.41.127 ( talk) 17:28, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
I was searching for this wikiarticle but I accidently clicked on Encyclopedia Dramatica article titled "3guys1hammer". I'm surprised that the site displays portions of the video in form of GIF animations without any warning. They also put a stopmotion pics edited in a way that sick people find humouristic. If anyone is a registered user please edit it out of the article. It's not OK to put such content without any warning. 78.131.137.50 ( talk) 02:01, 24 November 2009 (UTC)
The person posing as Hitler in the dead dog photo appears to be Suprunyuck, but the image may have been photoshopped in some way. The black and white image is in a newspaper article here, and contains disturbing content. There is another photo of Suprunyuck posing as Hitler (in colour) in this article. Suprunyuck added captions to some of the photos, notably the one that read "в гробу, я всех вижу... " (I hate all of you...).-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 08:34, 8 January 2010 (UTC)
"в гробу, я всех вижу " actual translation is "in the grave, I see everyone" > just thought to clarify. L.
lol don't mind me..I left Russia when I was 6 so I never ended up being exposed to expressions like this. I just took it as literally. I should have read the previous discussion on this subject. sorry about that.
Fifth grades and Eighth grades I believe to be Americanisms. Most people from other countries will not know what these phrases equate to in terms of child age. Can we not just state their ages so it's something we will all understand?
I recently came across a video where Alexander Hanzha (the guy who did not kill anybody) is beat up really badly. I assumed it was just Ukrainian Police beating him up.. but for some reason there are several places saying that he died in jail?? Mind you, I haven't found anything Legit saying this but I'm just wondering where this idea came from? Has anybody heard anything about it? Wouldn't there be some sort of Russian/Ukrainian news coverage saying that he died? I can read Russian but I don't really know where to look. My computer is English language based so I can only type with English script in search engines. Does that make sense? I'm thinking the whole "dying in jail" thing might be to make people be interested in the website posting the video... but I just really want to know if it has any truth to it? If Hanzha died in jail, I think that would be pretty significant to the article. But like I said, I have no idea if he died.. and personally, I really hope he's still alive. So yeah, sorry I'm new to this thing so please be patient :) Okay, thanks.
Thank you for checking up on it. I think you're right - something more legit would have mentioned it. Take care :)
I was reading this and Vladimir Supruyuck talks about how there is a video clip taken of Hanzha all beaten up . Apparently there were two parts and they were sold for 20гривен. (
http://www.segodnya.ua/interview/10041462.html).
Lenachka25 (
talk)
11:25, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
I was going through all the links/sources at the bottom of the article and something stuck out to me. Twice it is mentioned that Alexander Hanzha was friends with Igor Supruyuck in school, but not Viktor Sayenko. Right now the article says that Hanzha and Sayenko were lifelong friends etc. There are two sources contradicting this :
An interview with Sayenko's father. It's in Russian,the interviewer asks if the kids were all friends and he replies: " My son was never friends with Hanzha- only with Suprunyuck. But Suprunyuck was friends with Hanzha. Although they did all go to school together." ( http://gorod.dp.ua/news/news.php?id=10600)
Then there is the boys' school teacher Natalya Leonidovna who says : "In school Sasha (Hanzha) was friends with Igor, but with Viktor he didn't even communicate. However, what happened to the boys after they finished school I don't know, and can't answer that." ( http://www.segodnya.ua/news/324349.html)
The sources are number 36. and 29. at the bottom of the article. So could somebody find a way to change that? I don't really feel comfortable enough editing/deleting parts of the article because I haven't learned yet how to do it properly. To be honest, I think the correction is important because after reading it, my perception of the three of them changed. It's a whole different dynamic. Lenachka25 ( talk) 08:29, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
This article from Segodnya has a couple of developments worth mentioning. Most of it is about how the parents say their children were framed, and are planning an appeal to the European Court of Human Rights. It also mentions that a Chilean documentary team has made a film about the case. Viktor Pertsev, a local resident, claims to have been the victim of a hammer attack by Suprunyuck and Sayenko on the evening of 25 June 2007, but did not go to the police until after the killers were arrested. He says that two women from a nearby barber's shop called for help and scared away the attackers. Pertsev says that he was struck on the head, and still has memory problems.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 16:31, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
The existence of commercially produced snuff films is usually dismissed as an urban legend, with this Snopes article looking at the claim and finding it to be false. Since Suprunyuck's grinning face is seen clearly in the Yatzenko video, it is hard to imagine him staying free for long with the video available for sale. All the signs point to the video being leaked like the photographs in the Nikki Catsouras photographs controversy. Nevertheless, it is possible that Suprunyuck boasted about making this type of video to his friends, leading to the stories about snuff films.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 14:35, 3 August 2010 (UTC)
Well if you guys end up watching it online, could you send me the link to it? I'm kinda wary of it, alot of documentaries turn these kinds of things into like "dun dun dun" events and unknowingly glamorize it but oh well...Chile...that's pretty random *_* Lenachka25 ( talk) 17:58, 4 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm so desperate to see this, especially now that it is known to contain never before seen material, but the download rate and the fact that it contains Yatzenko's video (albeit blurred but presumably with the audio playing?) might just put me off haha. I look forward to any upcoming edits in light of this new material. PCLM ( talk) 14:42, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
I fell asleep last night after watching like 3 second bits of it...it was pretty annoying :( Ah well - I'll try again when I get home...my computer stalled on the closeup of Suprunyuck - all I could see was that NOSE of his - I'm going to have nightmares now *_* Lenachka25 ( talk) 17:47, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
On Monday 2 August 2010, the Chilean television channel Red Televisiva Megavisión broadcast a documentary about the case. It was 1 hour and 25 minutes long, and was notable for including photo and video material from the case that had never been shown publicly before.
It would take too long to describe everything in detail, so I have put together a zip file of screenshots and commentary from the documentary which can be downloaded here (18MB). There is no graphic material in this file, it is mostly previously unseen images of Suprunyuck and Sayenko. The most important aspect of the documentary is that the makers obtained a longer version of the Yatzenko murder video. It shows a period of around half an hour preceding the murder, during which Suprunyuck and Sayenko stand by the roadside next to their taxi, waiting for a victim to arrive, and discussing what they are going to do. Eventually Sergei Yatzenko arrives on a pedal bicycle (not a motorcycle, the article may need a rewrite here) and is knocked off the bicycle before the attack takes place. During this period, the faces of Suprunyuck and Sayenko can be seen clearly.
The article will probably need a full section about the Chilean documentary, and it would be helpful if someone fluent in Spanish could produce a transcript. However, the images and video that were used in the documentary are a key new source of material.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 13:55, 6 August 2010 (UTC)
Managed to get round to adding this at last. Also, there is a 320 x 240px WMV version of the documentary (282MB) available for download here. This will allow the material added to the article to be checked, and it would also help if someone fluent in Spanish could produce a transcript. The part about Yatzenko's Dnepr motorcycle was tweaked after a look at the source, although there is still a confusing gap as to why he turned up on a pedal bicycle before the attack. The documentary also confirms that it was Alexander Hanzha with a bruised face in the image here, so this has been added to the article.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 15:40, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
Yeah that's weird. mototsikal...viloseped...two different words for two different things. Oh yes, and I also want to say thank you for the link - I was finally able to watch it from beginning to end. I was a bit disappointed with the overall documentary but oh well - it was cool to see more pics of them other than the ones that were already available. I wonder if somebody could translate the Spanish speaking into English and write it out just for us to read? That would be really awesome although I don't know anybody who would be willing to do that in their free time. Once again, thanks for the link Ian :))) Lenachka25 ( talk) 13:04, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
I'm still puzzling about the Dnepr motorcycle, about which the Fakti story is very clear. Either something is inaccurate here, or there is more to the sequence of events that needs to be understood.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 14:50, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
Here is the audio where Igor Suprunyuck apparently refers to the knife. What do others think about the translation?-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 16:47, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
I think the translation of "bring the knife" or "get the knife" is accurate, because I've read the same translation in two independently-produced transcripts (amateur ones, but they both seem to agree on this point) as well as the subtitles provided by the Chilean documentary. I think the amateur-created subtitled version of the infamous video clip might qualify as a third independent transcription, because as far as I can recall it was made by a different person and isn't identical to the aforementioned transcripts, and this too seems to agree on what is being said with regards to the knife.
Did anyone look at the screenshots I uploaded? I think the wounds visible in them are evidence of a knife being used, and this along with the footage of the killers rifling through the man's pockets seems to be evidence of a second half to the video's runtime. The photographs of Suprunyuck and Sayenko posing with Yatzenko don't show this particular wounding on the corpse, which suggests it was inflicted outside of the time-frame of the original 8-minute clip. If all of this is true, the main article's account of Yatzenko's death needs to be heavily revised. PCLM ( talk) 18:11, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
By the way, the audio of the "knife" may actually be Sayenko's voice rather than Suprunyuck's, it is hard to make out a lot of the dialogue.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 18:30, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
But we have already established that the video clip preceding the photographs isn't the only footage of the attack. For instance, in the documentary we see the killers take cigarettes from Yatzenko's pockets, something the 8-minute clip doesn't show. The screenshots I uploaded show damage to Yatzenko's stomach which isn't shown in the 8-minute clip nor in the photograph of Suprunyuck posing with the dead body, so this damaged and the footage capturing it had to have been taken after the photographs were shot. All of this corroborates the account in the news article which describes additional damage being done to Yatzenko. I honestly can't figure out why there's any question about this. PCLM ( talk) 19:49, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
Of the three screenshots uploaded at [17], images 2 and 3 are definitely not from the leaked video, although 1 may be. Images 2 and 3 seem to have been deliberately blurred, making it hard to tell how they might fit in with the Yatzenko video. The large open cuts shown in images 2 and 3 would seem to fit in after the leaked attack. The cigarettes are taken from the pocket of Yatzenko at 28:30 in the Chilean documentary, and this moment is not in the leaked video. There may be video footage from both before and after the 7:48 of the leaked Internet video, but it is hard to give a sequence of events without seeing the full video that Michele Canale obtained. However, the article could be rewritten to include the removal of the cigaretttes from the pocket, since this is clearly shown in the Chilean documentary. The ear on the stomach part remains a mystery, as nothing in the Chilean documentary mentioned this even though they had access to a wide range of videos and photographs.-- ♦IanMacM♦ (talk to me) 20:48, 11 August 2010 (UTC)
Are you saying it's "original research" to say there is more than one murder video shown in the documentary? PCLM ( talk) 17:57, 13 August 2010 (UTC)