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The Dixiecrat Party was a far-left party, not a far-right one. - 2600:1005:B120:B2A6:1536:1EAC:6EC:AB6B ( talk) 05:06, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
I would have to claim your opinion there orange Mike as merely that. Your opinion. Your leaving it to be assumed. Which goes against the entire point of the Wikipedia. Cite how it's far right, via a .edu page. Or it's simply your opinion, which your abusing your position to push a narrative. Consigiliere ( talk) 05:55, 18 June 2022 (UTC) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Democrat Centre to center-right How are southern Democrats aka Dixiecrats far right? If a conservative Democrat is Centre to center-right. Then it's a contradiction for this page to show far right. Consigiliere ( talk) 06:00, 18 June 2022 (UTC) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_the_Southern_United_States Again no mention of far right views. Search page via find on page. You are purposely trying to push a ideal by leaving it as far right, with a temp lock on page. Consigiliere ( talk) 06:13, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
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This may or may not already be included in the article, if not then it may hold some WEIGHT for inclusion The American Presidency Project... DN ( talk) 23:38, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
The KKK was practically defunct after its collapse in the late 1920s. see Ku Klux Klan#Later Klans: 1950s–present Does any historian say the Klan supported the Dixiecrats? In Ihe Dixiecrat Revolt and the End of the Solid South, 1932-1968 by Kari A. Frederickson (2001) p 77 there is mention of a small KKK rally of under 200 people in Georgia before the Dixicrats were begun. Rjensen ( talk) 22:50, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
Inane trolling
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The Dixiecrats were far-left, not far-right.- 174.199.234.91 ( talk) 00:33, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
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Following from these edits (@ EvergreenFir), was the Confederate battle flag the party flag of the States' Rights Democratic Party? And if so, which version of the battle flag?
My edit substituted the text "Flag (representative example)" for "Party flag" because I could not find a source saying that the party officially recognized this flag, only that they adopted it as a symbol. So by way of analogy, is this a situation like the Gadsden flag and either the U.S. Libertarian Party or Republican Party—where members/factions of those parties have clearly adopted the symbol, even if the organization (I assume) formally has not—or is this like the BJP where the party actually refers to something as the party flag? Although there are probably more sources that we haven't found, PBS said "In 1948, the newly-formed segregationist Dixiecrat party adopted the flag as a symbol of resistance to the federal government." and NPR said "It was also the symbol of the States' Rights Democratic Party, or "Dixiecrats," that formed in 1948 to oppose civil-rights platforms of the Democratic Party.". Was the symbol used only used in the context of opposing the federal government, or generically to identify the party itself? To me, this isn't clear, so I went with the most conservative reading of the text. (Note also that "party" has multiple meanings that can refer to the members collectively, or the organization singularly—I read either as possible in this instance, because it isn't clear whether the party had coalesced into a formal organization with strictly defined rules, or was still nascent and generating norms based on individuals' own expressive choices.)
Then there's the issue of which battle flag, since it comes in different versions. Did the party care which one? Was there a specification or consensus, or was it that anything with the general appearance was sufficient to get the message across? If the latter, then the particular SVG in this article really is just a representative example (and not a definitive version). TheFeds 00:02, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
@ TheFeds:@ EvergreenFir: To quote historian John M. Coski's The Confederate Battle Flag: The battle flag was not the official symbol of the National States' Rights Democratic Party—which the headline writers dubbed the "Dixiecrat Party". In fact, party leaders shunned symbols that implied a strictly regional identity. Significantly, it was party supporters, primarily young men, who most often waved the flag for the Dixiecrats. [1] He goes on to note that Confederate flags appeared frequently during the party's formation and at rallies etc. and mentions Ralph McGill's critque before saying (p. 104) Instead [of the flag], the party's campaign materials featured bust portraits of candidates Thurmond and Wright with the legend 'states' rights'. One fundraising brochure carried an image of the Statue of Liberty with [various slogans about state's rights]... He goes on to note that some state executive committees of the party, namely the one for Alabama, did use the battle flag on their own materials, and that flags were to be found in many places Thurmond and Wright campaigned, despite their attempts to appeal to a more national audience.
I think it might be worth more fully discussing the party's use of symbols in the body text of the article. I also recommend removing the PBS News Hour article as a source with the quote "the newly-formed segregationist Dixiecrat party adopted the flag as a symbol of resistance to the federal government" which, in light of the scholarship, is misleadingly simplistic. - Indy beetle ( talk) 23:16, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
References
Is nobody talking about these sources? There are two sources linked, literally from the same article but reposted on a different website. The original post, from WaPo, is also an opinion piece. This is blatantly incorrect sourcing. 23.240.160.134 ( talk) 02:29, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
After noticing a recent edit [3], I did some searching... Atlantic, Wapo. It seems likely the Dixiecrat party falls under the definition of Right wing populism, as Strom Thurmond is clearly listed on Wiki's Right wing populism page. Populism is defined as "a range of political stances that emphasize the idea of "the people" and often juxtapose this group against "the elite" and is frequently associated with anti-establishment and anti-political sentiment". Political Science Professor Joe Lowndes "traces conservative populism, as we know it, back to the post–World War II Dixiecrat revolt against the New Deal" in the book " Populism's Power" by associate professor Laura Grattan... DN ( talk) 06:39, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
Politico " In Trump, many of the kind of white working-class voters once called Reagan Democrats have found a tribune who represents their views and values more consistently than conservative populists like the Dixiecrat George Wallace, the Old Right paleo-conservative Pat Buchanan or the “theo-conservative” Pat Robertson, all of whom faltered in their bids for the presidency... DN ( talk) 07:59, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
Campaigning for president in America 1788-2016 page 237 "Strom Thurmond's Dixiecrat revolt both exhibited populist strains;"... DN ( talk) 08:08, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
"Sixty-eight years ago, the public watched a dynamic similar to the Trump-Sanders moment play out as Harry Truman sought the Presidency, an office he had held since Franklin Roosevelt’s death, in 1945. Truman was pitted against the Republican Thomas Dewey but faced additional challenges from Henry Wallace, whom he had replaced as F.D.R.’s Vice-President, in 1941, and Strom Thurmond, the populist segregationist and South Carolina governor." The New Yorker - Jelani Cobb... DN ( talk) 18:44, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
This discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
The Dixiecrat Party was a far-left party, not a far-right one. - 2600:1005:B120:B2A6:1536:1EAC:6EC:AB6B ( talk) 05:06, 6 March 2022 (UTC)
I would have to claim your opinion there orange Mike as merely that. Your opinion. Your leaving it to be assumed. Which goes against the entire point of the Wikipedia. Cite how it's far right, via a .edu page. Or it's simply your opinion, which your abusing your position to push a narrative. Consigiliere ( talk) 05:55, 18 June 2022 (UTC) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Democrat Centre to center-right How are southern Democrats aka Dixiecrats far right? If a conservative Democrat is Centre to center-right. Then it's a contradiction for this page to show far right. Consigiliere ( talk) 06:00, 18 June 2022 (UTC) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_the_Southern_United_States Again no mention of far right views. Search page via find on page. You are purposely trying to push a ideal by leaving it as far right, with a temp lock on page. Consigiliere ( talk) 06:13, 18 June 2022 (UTC)
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This may or may not already be included in the article, if not then it may hold some WEIGHT for inclusion The American Presidency Project... DN ( talk) 23:38, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
The KKK was practically defunct after its collapse in the late 1920s. see Ku Klux Klan#Later Klans: 1950s–present Does any historian say the Klan supported the Dixiecrats? In Ihe Dixiecrat Revolt and the End of the Solid South, 1932-1968 by Kari A. Frederickson (2001) p 77 there is mention of a small KKK rally of under 200 people in Georgia before the Dixicrats were begun. Rjensen ( talk) 22:50, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
Inane trolling
|
---|
The Dixiecrats were far-left, not far-right.- 174.199.234.91 ( talk) 00:33, 23 October 2022 (UTC)
|
Following from these edits (@ EvergreenFir), was the Confederate battle flag the party flag of the States' Rights Democratic Party? And if so, which version of the battle flag?
My edit substituted the text "Flag (representative example)" for "Party flag" because I could not find a source saying that the party officially recognized this flag, only that they adopted it as a symbol. So by way of analogy, is this a situation like the Gadsden flag and either the U.S. Libertarian Party or Republican Party—where members/factions of those parties have clearly adopted the symbol, even if the organization (I assume) formally has not—or is this like the BJP where the party actually refers to something as the party flag? Although there are probably more sources that we haven't found, PBS said "In 1948, the newly-formed segregationist Dixiecrat party adopted the flag as a symbol of resistance to the federal government." and NPR said "It was also the symbol of the States' Rights Democratic Party, or "Dixiecrats," that formed in 1948 to oppose civil-rights platforms of the Democratic Party.". Was the symbol used only used in the context of opposing the federal government, or generically to identify the party itself? To me, this isn't clear, so I went with the most conservative reading of the text. (Note also that "party" has multiple meanings that can refer to the members collectively, or the organization singularly—I read either as possible in this instance, because it isn't clear whether the party had coalesced into a formal organization with strictly defined rules, or was still nascent and generating norms based on individuals' own expressive choices.)
Then there's the issue of which battle flag, since it comes in different versions. Did the party care which one? Was there a specification or consensus, or was it that anything with the general appearance was sufficient to get the message across? If the latter, then the particular SVG in this article really is just a representative example (and not a definitive version). TheFeds 00:02, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
@ TheFeds:@ EvergreenFir: To quote historian John M. Coski's The Confederate Battle Flag: The battle flag was not the official symbol of the National States' Rights Democratic Party—which the headline writers dubbed the "Dixiecrat Party". In fact, party leaders shunned symbols that implied a strictly regional identity. Significantly, it was party supporters, primarily young men, who most often waved the flag for the Dixiecrats. [1] He goes on to note that Confederate flags appeared frequently during the party's formation and at rallies etc. and mentions Ralph McGill's critque before saying (p. 104) Instead [of the flag], the party's campaign materials featured bust portraits of candidates Thurmond and Wright with the legend 'states' rights'. One fundraising brochure carried an image of the Statue of Liberty with [various slogans about state's rights]... He goes on to note that some state executive committees of the party, namely the one for Alabama, did use the battle flag on their own materials, and that flags were to be found in many places Thurmond and Wright campaigned, despite their attempts to appeal to a more national audience.
I think it might be worth more fully discussing the party's use of symbols in the body text of the article. I also recommend removing the PBS News Hour article as a source with the quote "the newly-formed segregationist Dixiecrat party adopted the flag as a symbol of resistance to the federal government" which, in light of the scholarship, is misleadingly simplistic. - Indy beetle ( talk) 23:16, 18 February 2023 (UTC)
References
Is nobody talking about these sources? There are two sources linked, literally from the same article but reposted on a different website. The original post, from WaPo, is also an opinion piece. This is blatantly incorrect sourcing. 23.240.160.134 ( talk) 02:29, 30 December 2022 (UTC)
After noticing a recent edit [3], I did some searching... Atlantic, Wapo. It seems likely the Dixiecrat party falls under the definition of Right wing populism, as Strom Thurmond is clearly listed on Wiki's Right wing populism page. Populism is defined as "a range of political stances that emphasize the idea of "the people" and often juxtapose this group against "the elite" and is frequently associated with anti-establishment and anti-political sentiment". Political Science Professor Joe Lowndes "traces conservative populism, as we know it, back to the post–World War II Dixiecrat revolt against the New Deal" in the book " Populism's Power" by associate professor Laura Grattan... DN ( talk) 06:39, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
Politico " In Trump, many of the kind of white working-class voters once called Reagan Democrats have found a tribune who represents their views and values more consistently than conservative populists like the Dixiecrat George Wallace, the Old Right paleo-conservative Pat Buchanan or the “theo-conservative” Pat Robertson, all of whom faltered in their bids for the presidency... DN ( talk) 07:59, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
Campaigning for president in America 1788-2016 page 237 "Strom Thurmond's Dixiecrat revolt both exhibited populist strains;"... DN ( talk) 08:08, 8 January 2023 (UTC)
"Sixty-eight years ago, the public watched a dynamic similar to the Trump-Sanders moment play out as Harry Truman sought the Presidency, an office he had held since Franklin Roosevelt’s death, in 1945. Truman was pitted against the Republican Thomas Dewey but faced additional challenges from Henry Wallace, whom he had replaced as F.D.R.’s Vice-President, in 1941, and Strom Thurmond, the populist segregationist and South Carolina governor." The New Yorker - Jelani Cobb... DN ( talk) 18:44, 8 January 2023 (UTC)