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Is "Dief box" a common phrase other than in Canada? I could only find one reference with Google, and that was to a Canadian manufacturer of distribution boxes. -- Wtshymanski 23:11, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
A fine picture, but do we need it twice in one article? And shouldn't the article indicate that panelboards usually have a cover (even in the UK, I assume). -- Wtshymanski 03:33, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
The article currently contains the following statement:
While it's true that our panelboards (load centers, etc.) have exposed live parts, I think I'd disagree about the word "many". Basically, the readily-exposed live parts are limited to the 1, 2, or 3 phase bars and their associated connection lugs. The terminals on the individual circuit breakers are usually shrouded so you'd have to make an effort to contact them. I gather that continental breakers have about the same exposure.
Any thoughts?
Atlant 14:45, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
You mention dead front but fail to discuss anything in regards to Arc Flash. For residential no you really dont have to worry about it much but in commercial or industrial applications you best have the proper PPE on depending on the circuit (even for a 20 Ampere single phase). You also make it sound like all Circuit Breakers are rated for switching duty which is not the case and simply stating a C/B is used to de-energize a circuit for servicing is a somewhat incorrect statement considering the primary design is to clear faults. Circuit Breakers are NOT "safety switches". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.252.208.50 ( talk • contribs).
While I think this is the most likely "internationally" understandable name, I suggest adding "electrical" to it, so it's more obvious on looking at the title what it is, since it's probably not immediately understandable to someone who isn't familiar with this turn of phrase. 68.39.174.238 08:41, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
That so-called "American" panel is very strange looking to me...you're not supposed to have the line lugs at the bottom! It may well be a Code violation, too. It is certainly unusual and I've never seen one with the live feed at the bottom. -- Wtshymanski 18:50, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
Folks, I have been an electrical designer for nearly 20 years in industrial engineering with projects on 5 continents. Please take it from me, feeding a panelboard from the bottom is permissible and common -- in fact, most panelboard manfacturers design the interiors to rotate 180 degrees (invertible) within the enclosure to allow for top feed or bottom feed. Also, according to the IEC/NEC (NFPA 70), a main circuit breaker is not required anywhere unless a panelboard has more than 6 branch circuit breakers, which most do.
Now, here's what really throws people for a loop -- an otherwise normal branch circuit breaker may serve as a main circuit breaker (a.k.a. "back-fed") for a panelboard, energizing the bus bars and the branch circuit breakers. Of course, it must have sufficient current rating to serve as the main circuit breaker. 60 ampere and 100 ampere, 2-pole or 3-pole circuit breakers of the branch variety are often used as "main" circuit breakers in panelboards to avoid the expense of line lugs. Danger! Learn your stuff or hire an electrician to risk his life instead!
BTW, this article is full of misinformation and sloppy misuse of terminology, but I don't have anymore time to spend on it -- back to work. 204.58.248.32 ( talk) 20:11, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
I've added a few of my own pics. I'm open to comments on all parts of the change. Thanx. 68.39.174.238 01:41, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
The article is much appreciated. A discussion of sub-panels common in today's construction would be appreciated by me. Especially the limitations on them. For example is it legit to add a 200 amp sub-panel(s) with its own main breaker by attaching the new sub-panel to the entrance lug on an existing main panel? Fried! 03:31, 29 September 2006 (UTC) In other words can one add a 200 amp sub-panel to a 200 amp panel which is already occupied by for example 150 amps of breakers? Fried! 03:39, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
It would be interesting to note how much the amp rating of main breakers has risen over the years, like in the 1920s a U.S. house may have had a 50A or 75A main breaker, and today new homes are built with 150A, 200A, and 250A main breakers, just to keep up with the demand for electric stuff.
I noticed while I was in Japan, their household electric is a split-phase system like the U.S., 100V phase-to-N and 200V phase-to-phase, however, it is not uncommon for a Japanese home to have a main breaker of only 30A. JAK83 06:18, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
I need to add a 50-amp circuit, but there is no romm in my service panel(only a single space left). Can I have a subpanel connected to the main service panel to house the 50-amp breaker or do I have to have a larger main service panel box installed? 68.111.179.103 01:10, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
I wonder if the phrasing "For 480Y/277 volts (always three-phase)" is misinformative. While I agree that 480Y/277 is by far the most common occurance of 480 volts phase to phase, I have heard through second-hand sources that 480/240 single phase systems do in fact exist and that utilites will connect them. Unusual, to be sure, but for the sake of completeness and accuracy this could be addressed. But not by me.( 64.50.228.36 01:39, 6 September 2007 (UTC))
I don't know who this kid who sprayed a lot of this garbage on this topic was, but I'm scared to think that s/he is an electrician somewhere. Is it possible for articles that relate to this one major thing that everyone takes for granted, and that I know and love, to be joined under a wikiproject? Some of the stuff I've seen overall on the subject worries me. Experts please, preferably those who know just a bit more than white is neutral and bare/green is ground (earth for you "other" folks hahaw). ( 64.50.228.36 02:33, 6 September 2007 (UTC))
Domestic CUs, which will be familiar to most readers, don't normally look like the current pic. Domestic CUs are almost always single horiztonal row, and the boxes are nowhere near as big as shown. Maybe someone has a pic that better represents most people's experience. Tabby ( talk) 03:06, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm not clear what value the categorisation "Modern CU with MCBs and an RCD / Older CU, usually containing no RCD" has - many early MCB installations were done with no RCDs. I saw these regularly in the 1980s. Does anyone think this is really useful? Anihl ( talk) 22:30, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
I have created a SVG that is Open Source that might be really nice for this page. I added a link at the bottom of the ARTICLE to the graphic in EXTERNAL LINKS so everyone can see it. The graphic is generic and I could modify it some for the Wiki if needed. It is also nice for mapping out ones circuits, or as a starting point for a more specific non-generic panel. VitalBodies ( talk) 02:59, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
I find the table under Breaker Arrangement to be somewhat ambiguous. The phase labels for split phase are A, B, A, B. It seems as though it would be more accurate to label them something like A, -A, A, -A. Kmuret ( talk) 14:44, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
The term " panel board" used to redirect to this distribution board article. I changed the redirect to point to control panel (engineering) instead. Have I made a horrible mistake? -- DavidCary ( talk) 19:08, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
Is the 19th June 2014 edit definitely an improvement? It's worded in the first person and is rather bias towards the outdated system - the "old and loved" colours, etc. 92.28.252.70 ( talk) 23:12, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
Lighting Distribution Boards are an integral and essential part of every building project and it must be designed, manufactured and installed all in accordance with the safety standards
Main Lighting distribution boards manufactured in accordance with the latest edition / amendment of Indian standard specification at the time of order, including amendments & in particular the following:
Metal sheet provided between two adjacent vertical sections running to full height of the board.
IS 2147 :Degrees of Protection provided by enclosures for low voltage switch gear and control gear
The board divided into distinct sections comprising of
a) metal enclosed busbar compartment running horizontally
b) Individual feeder modules arranged in multitier formation.
c) Enclosed vertical busbars serving all modules.
d) Vertical cable alley covering entire height. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.68.50.212 ( talk) 14:40, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
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The section here is quite long compared to that article, and it's not clear how a 'consumer unit' is anything other than the British term for what we in the US call a 'breaker box'. The section and the dedicated article are closer to a fork than a summary and full article. But neither fully achieves its purpose, so their information should be consolidated by someone who understands what they're each saying. — ˈzɪzɨvə ( talk) 02:13, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
Eric Lotze ( talk) 13:54, 26 January 2023 (UTC)
The contents of the Consumer unit page were merged into Distribution board on 7 December 2023. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Distribution board article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
Is "Dief box" a common phrase other than in Canada? I could only find one reference with Google, and that was to a Canadian manufacturer of distribution boxes. -- Wtshymanski 23:11, 4 May 2005 (UTC)
A fine picture, but do we need it twice in one article? And shouldn't the article indicate that panelboards usually have a cover (even in the UK, I assume). -- Wtshymanski 03:33, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
The article currently contains the following statement:
While it's true that our panelboards (load centers, etc.) have exposed live parts, I think I'd disagree about the word "many". Basically, the readily-exposed live parts are limited to the 1, 2, or 3 phase bars and their associated connection lugs. The terminals on the individual circuit breakers are usually shrouded so you'd have to make an effort to contact them. I gather that continental breakers have about the same exposure.
Any thoughts?
Atlant 14:45, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
You mention dead front but fail to discuss anything in regards to Arc Flash. For residential no you really dont have to worry about it much but in commercial or industrial applications you best have the proper PPE on depending on the circuit (even for a 20 Ampere single phase). You also make it sound like all Circuit Breakers are rated for switching duty which is not the case and simply stating a C/B is used to de-energize a circuit for servicing is a somewhat incorrect statement considering the primary design is to clear faults. Circuit Breakers are NOT "safety switches". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.252.208.50 ( talk • contribs).
While I think this is the most likely "internationally" understandable name, I suggest adding "electrical" to it, so it's more obvious on looking at the title what it is, since it's probably not immediately understandable to someone who isn't familiar with this turn of phrase. 68.39.174.238 08:41, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
That so-called "American" panel is very strange looking to me...you're not supposed to have the line lugs at the bottom! It may well be a Code violation, too. It is certainly unusual and I've never seen one with the live feed at the bottom. -- Wtshymanski 18:50, 21 March 2006 (UTC)
Folks, I have been an electrical designer for nearly 20 years in industrial engineering with projects on 5 continents. Please take it from me, feeding a panelboard from the bottom is permissible and common -- in fact, most panelboard manfacturers design the interiors to rotate 180 degrees (invertible) within the enclosure to allow for top feed or bottom feed. Also, according to the IEC/NEC (NFPA 70), a main circuit breaker is not required anywhere unless a panelboard has more than 6 branch circuit breakers, which most do.
Now, here's what really throws people for a loop -- an otherwise normal branch circuit breaker may serve as a main circuit breaker (a.k.a. "back-fed") for a panelboard, energizing the bus bars and the branch circuit breakers. Of course, it must have sufficient current rating to serve as the main circuit breaker. 60 ampere and 100 ampere, 2-pole or 3-pole circuit breakers of the branch variety are often used as "main" circuit breakers in panelboards to avoid the expense of line lugs. Danger! Learn your stuff or hire an electrician to risk his life instead!
BTW, this article is full of misinformation and sloppy misuse of terminology, but I don't have anymore time to spend on it -- back to work. 204.58.248.32 ( talk) 20:11, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
I've added a few of my own pics. I'm open to comments on all parts of the change. Thanx. 68.39.174.238 01:41, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
The article is much appreciated. A discussion of sub-panels common in today's construction would be appreciated by me. Especially the limitations on them. For example is it legit to add a 200 amp sub-panel(s) with its own main breaker by attaching the new sub-panel to the entrance lug on an existing main panel? Fried! 03:31, 29 September 2006 (UTC) In other words can one add a 200 amp sub-panel to a 200 amp panel which is already occupied by for example 150 amps of breakers? Fried! 03:39, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
It would be interesting to note how much the amp rating of main breakers has risen over the years, like in the 1920s a U.S. house may have had a 50A or 75A main breaker, and today new homes are built with 150A, 200A, and 250A main breakers, just to keep up with the demand for electric stuff.
I noticed while I was in Japan, their household electric is a split-phase system like the U.S., 100V phase-to-N and 200V phase-to-phase, however, it is not uncommon for a Japanese home to have a main breaker of only 30A. JAK83 06:18, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
I need to add a 50-amp circuit, but there is no romm in my service panel(only a single space left). Can I have a subpanel connected to the main service panel to house the 50-amp breaker or do I have to have a larger main service panel box installed? 68.111.179.103 01:10, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
I wonder if the phrasing "For 480Y/277 volts (always three-phase)" is misinformative. While I agree that 480Y/277 is by far the most common occurance of 480 volts phase to phase, I have heard through second-hand sources that 480/240 single phase systems do in fact exist and that utilites will connect them. Unusual, to be sure, but for the sake of completeness and accuracy this could be addressed. But not by me.( 64.50.228.36 01:39, 6 September 2007 (UTC))
I don't know who this kid who sprayed a lot of this garbage on this topic was, but I'm scared to think that s/he is an electrician somewhere. Is it possible for articles that relate to this one major thing that everyone takes for granted, and that I know and love, to be joined under a wikiproject? Some of the stuff I've seen overall on the subject worries me. Experts please, preferably those who know just a bit more than white is neutral and bare/green is ground (earth for you "other" folks hahaw). ( 64.50.228.36 02:33, 6 September 2007 (UTC))
Domestic CUs, which will be familiar to most readers, don't normally look like the current pic. Domestic CUs are almost always single horiztonal row, and the boxes are nowhere near as big as shown. Maybe someone has a pic that better represents most people's experience. Tabby ( talk) 03:06, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm not clear what value the categorisation "Modern CU with MCBs and an RCD / Older CU, usually containing no RCD" has - many early MCB installations were done with no RCDs. I saw these regularly in the 1980s. Does anyone think this is really useful? Anihl ( talk) 22:30, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
I have created a SVG that is Open Source that might be really nice for this page. I added a link at the bottom of the ARTICLE to the graphic in EXTERNAL LINKS so everyone can see it. The graphic is generic and I could modify it some for the Wiki if needed. It is also nice for mapping out ones circuits, or as a starting point for a more specific non-generic panel. VitalBodies ( talk) 02:59, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
I find the table under Breaker Arrangement to be somewhat ambiguous. The phase labels for split phase are A, B, A, B. It seems as though it would be more accurate to label them something like A, -A, A, -A. Kmuret ( talk) 14:44, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
The term " panel board" used to redirect to this distribution board article. I changed the redirect to point to control panel (engineering) instead. Have I made a horrible mistake? -- DavidCary ( talk) 19:08, 5 July 2013 (UTC)
Is the 19th June 2014 edit definitely an improvement? It's worded in the first person and is rather bias towards the outdated system - the "old and loved" colours, etc. 92.28.252.70 ( talk) 23:12, 20 August 2014 (UTC)
Lighting Distribution Boards are an integral and essential part of every building project and it must be designed, manufactured and installed all in accordance with the safety standards
Main Lighting distribution boards manufactured in accordance with the latest edition / amendment of Indian standard specification at the time of order, including amendments & in particular the following:
Metal sheet provided between two adjacent vertical sections running to full height of the board.
IS 2147 :Degrees of Protection provided by enclosures for low voltage switch gear and control gear
The board divided into distinct sections comprising of
a) metal enclosed busbar compartment running horizontally
b) Individual feeder modules arranged in multitier formation.
c) Enclosed vertical busbars serving all modules.
d) Vertical cable alley covering entire height. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.68.50.212 ( talk) 14:40, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Distribution board. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 12:21, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
The section here is quite long compared to that article, and it's not clear how a 'consumer unit' is anything other than the British term for what we in the US call a 'breaker box'. The section and the dedicated article are closer to a fork than a summary and full article. But neither fully achieves its purpose, so their information should be consolidated by someone who understands what they're each saying. — ˈzɪzɨvə ( talk) 02:13, 12 January 2023 (UTC)
Eric Lotze ( talk) 13:54, 26 January 2023 (UTC)