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I remember the Disco era and always thought of it in terms of the early 70s start period and hitting its peak in the later 70s. That all makes sense until you look at these lyrics form the Kinks "Dedicated Follower Of Fashion" from 1966: …Oh yes he is (oh yes he is), oh yes he is (oh yes he is). His world is built 'round DISCOTEQUES and parties. This pleasure-seeking individual always looks his best 'Cause he's a dedicated follower of fashion… — Preceding unsigned comment added by Warwren01 ( talk • contribs) 18:51, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
Jimmy Saville claims to have organised the first "disc only night" disc'o' in 1943/44 in Leeds [2] [3], where he played 78's of the big bands of the time. MBorrill ( talk) 20:57, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
Why are there so many quotes and pespectives from a punk perspective about an article on disco, when the material on disco reads like a litany of meaningless facts and song placement. It would seem an article on disco would have more personal anecdotes and quotes from the people in the disco scene rather than perspectives from the punk scene. Is this a article on disco or how disco is/was perceived, namely by people who werent even born yet and insist punk has some, or really any kind, of current cultural relevance, which everyone knows it doesnt. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Redneckriverdude ( talk • contribs) 05:35, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
Disco was more influential on New Wave than on Post-punk —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rivet138 ( talk • contribs) 22:32, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
I agree with the sentiment at the top of this section. A lot of the sources are from people linked to disco's contemporary musical competitors, suggesting bias. More research needs to be done--including citing more sources from inside the movement--to properly characterize disco. In particular, the reasons given for its decline, and their sources, make that section look like a sociopolitical assessment rather than a musical assessment. I urge editors (besides me) to come up with sources having alternate points of view on disco and its decline. All in all, it makes you wonder who created this article in the first place; it's a good article, but it sounds like it was written by someone who didn't "get it". (I'm not personally a disco fan, but then it's not like a "musically foreign" style to me.) RobertGustafson ( talk) 13:55, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
Why and where does this article need additional citations for verification? What references does it need and how should they be added? Hyacinth ( talk) 00:58, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
Why and where does this article include excessive, poor or irrelevant examples? Which should be removed and why? Hyacinth ( talk) 01:01, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
I don't have time to go point by point but my basic view remains he same I agree with a lot of your points and respect your knowledge of the subject but have a problem with your what I think are your (and a lot of other editors of this article) over relaxed view of the rules.
"I advise that if you find a questionable addition, don't do a blanket revert--throwing out good with bad--but instead remove or fix the SPECIFIC questionable additions." OK but on the other hand you found questionable parts of the the article and did not make surgical changes but massive unsourced additions/revisions covering several sections of the article. It is up to the editor who adds material to find sources for it. An editor who finds unsourced originally research material has several required options 1. Give a citation or other warnings. I have done that by putting the warning for the entire article for specific parts of the article. These warnings have been ignored. 2. Deleted the unsourced/original researched material. 3. Do the job the other editor was supposed to do and try and find sources. If sources are found add the sources, if they are not warn or delete. I have done that also. Usually I add a warning, and a lot of time I will do the job the other editor should have done because while most unsourced/original researched additions I deal with turn out not to have reliable sources for their claims, once in awhile the addition is sourced and is a valuable addition to the article. For a massive revision like yours it is impractical for me since I have a life and it is frankly unfair to expect me or any editor to spend hours it requires to use option 2 or 3. And the overall state of the article is poor. WP:CHALLENGE Edkollin( talk) 07:11, 11 March 2012 (UTC).
Causation in the lede. That was not my addition. While you are right in wanting that out but it was for the wrong reason. The correct reason is are there there are no sources for that claim.
MTV documentary. You can use the documentary itself as a source. While hyperlinks are preferable they are not required.
Punk: Cut down yes, delete no. Sources do consistently mention it but it is the not the dominant theme. (My Point of View Punk a lot of times is given undue weight when discussing that era because of importance since the late 70's. In the late 70's in the US it was a very minor phenomenon).
As for the reasons for the backlash a lot of them are in the section or in the sources used in that section. The music industry losing money, view that disco fans were vapid and elitist, that the sound was overproduced and synthetic, rock stars "selling" out. See cite numbers 35,38,44.And they do note that DDN was important to the temporary demise of disco so this has to be noted in the article. Not cited so not in the article are overkill which inevitably lowers the quality of the sound and makes people sick of it.
Personal Note: I wrote something about going to blogs which might at first glance seem insulting or flippant but was written seriously. While you can not follow every rule and you certainly don't have to like them, you should make a reasonable effort to follow and respect them. You did that much better this time around still see "I know" "I think" as reasoning for revisions. Is Wikipedia the place for you? With your knowledge and writing skills I hope so as you can turn this article around. If not maybe I will be citing your article someday.
I will leave your revisions alone for a few weeks and see what you come up with. This does not mean I won't delete others unsourced additions Edkollin ( talk) 09:13, 11 March 2012 (UTC))
Did rassism play a role in the anti-disco movement? Because many disco artist were black. So they were excluded from white society and went back to the ghetto to create Hip-Hop. And nowadays R&B is king of music. But, I am not an American historian to know all this for sure. Still the anti-disco movement looks very white and very strange, too! Like a KKK event. Anyway, the message of disco was love and tolerance, the message of punk is rage and hatred, for sure. -- 178.197.234.47 ( talk) 04:07, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
There seem to be lack of understanding of what that means so I will quote a portion of WP:RELY:
Cluttering articles (expanding them by entire paragraphs) with your favorite TV show doesn't qualify. Loginnigol ( talk) 06:48, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
Cite error: There are <ref>
tags on this page without content in them (see the
help page).The section on disco fashion is too short and too general. In 1978-79 there were major changes to fashion, shirt collars got small, ties and lapels got narrow, and in a very short period of time the look shown in Saturday Night Fever was very dated. Also, in many of the trendiest clubs, very casual clothes (e.g. jeans) were allowed as long as they were very trendy. In New York the store Fiorucc featured such things as very high priced (for the time) dark denim jeans, leather jeans, and men's shirts with small button down collars but in bright stripes and prints; also such of-the-moment items as double wrap belts, retro looking sneakers, and a kind of disco version of the cowboy look, very popular in the last year and a half of the 70's. Like Cite error: There are <ref>
tags on this page without content in them (see the
help page).disco music, the fashion evolved and 1978 and 1979 were noticeably different from the earlier years. Women continued to wear dresses, usually with long skirts and often with vests and gathered seams in 78-79 though they too wore trendy jeans, often with high heeled shoes, typically open sandals but later in the form of pumps.
I never thought of that as a disco song, and to my ears, it is not, whereas "Get Lucky" clearly is. What style elements of disco does it have, other than repetitiveness? Ikan Kekek ( talk) 01:12, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
In the United States, there were some pre-1974 precursors, and some disco-sounding records charted in 1974, but the great majority of the general population (outside a few urban neighborhoods) did not become aware of "disco" as a distinct musical style and social scene under that name until at least 1975 when "The Hustle" charted -- and of course disco's biggest mainstream success didn't occur until Saturday Night Fever in 1977/1978... AnonMoos ( talk) 07:56, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
Abba was not a disco group. They were a pop group that latched on to a disco by producing and performing about 5 disco songs. They jumped on the bandwagon like many other people did. At the height of Disco they sang songs like Take A Chance on Me, The Name of the Game, Fernando, Chiquitita, Eagle. They were not Disco songs — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:7:8500:982:895E:FA76:8104:45BB ( talk) 05:49, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
Disco developed in the early 70s to 80s, with funk and psychadelic rock becoming more dance-able, while fusing with soul. A genre-defining prime example of said fusion is James Brown's "The Payback," 1973. Also, disco became more pop-oriented when artists such as Michael Jackson (on "Off the Wall") and ABBA became mainstream. Death metal developed in the late 80s (long after disco's heyday, mind you) with aggressive thrash metal and the first wave of black metal, and even some grindcore; a good example of the thin line between thrash and death metal at the time was Death's "Scream Bloody Gore," 1987, erstwhile defining the genre with albums like "Butchered at Birth," Cannibal Corpse, 1991, and "Covenant," Morbid Angel, 1993. Disco and Death Metal are EXTREMELY far away from each other musically, the sole similarity being that they both were bore from rock music. However, on the wiki page for disco, it says that one of disco's main influences was death metal. This is not right, and one may know this from reason alone; hence, without living during the development of the two genres. Had the editor been a wise and intelligent man (such is the type of the author of this passage) then he would have known this primarily. Henceforth, the editor was not using reason to any extent -- said influence should be deleted from the original article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.44.134.78 ( talk) 21:59, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
These have been removed as per MOS:LEAD. This section is intended as a summary of the main body of text and is usually not referenced (as all material is dealt with in the main article). References removed include:
[1] [nb 1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [1] [11] [8] [12] [13]
References
ComiskyThriller
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).References
Catfish Jim and the soapdish 10:34, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
This article stands very strange position about Disco origins. I guess music is made by musicians, so if 99% of proto-disco musicians were gay, disco should be a gay music for gays & the whole organisation. Sly and The Family Stone, Isaac Hayes, Willie Hutch, MFSB, Jerry Butler, Jimi Hendrix, Manu Dibango, Harold Melvin, Bee Gees (well...), etc = not gay (I have some fine references If you want). This is just strange, gays made a musical genre, but they're NOT gays? RockandDiscoFanCZ ( talk) 19:48, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
I note the complete absence of any reference to one of the MOST emblematic groups, the Village People and YMCA. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Baron D. Z. ( talk • contribs) 03:23, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
The most successful duo in the history of disco music was also omitted: the Pet Shop Boys. However, the article gives relevance to one-hot wonders such as Freeez.
the description of dance-punk in this article wrong — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.120.194.67 ( talk) 04:02, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
It is an oversimplification to say that Punk, particularly in the United Kingdom, was hostile to disco. Many early Sex Pistols fans in the UK such as the Bromley Contingent and Jordan quite liked disco, which was why nightclubs such as Louise's in Soho and later the Sombrero in Kensignton because frequent hangouts for the early Sex Pistols crowd. The track Love Hangover by Diana Ross (the house anthem at Louise's) was cited as a particular favourite by many early Punks. I think that qualifiers should be put into the references to punk antipathy to reflect this properly. 62.190.148.115 ( talk) 12:23, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
Hi everybody wikifellows, my name is Saiyuki4ever and I edited this page in these days, but I had my edits reverted in the last hours, even those which were not betterings but corrections also of links.... I pray you of not to revert anymore my edits because if I make these edits is only in the English Wikipedia exclusive interests, not mine. I wish you all a good surfing on the Internet.
Saiyuki4ever Saiyuki4ever ( talk) 22:55, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
Yes, sure. But thus is just how you play I Feel Love, oh no, it's Don't Leave Me This Way. That's the best one . 88.111.238.175 ( talk) 10:39, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
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Hi all. An editor added the following DJs and said they were important disco DJs. No sources or references. As per WP guidelines and policies, it is the responsibility of the editor who adds content to provide a reliable source. Until we have a reliable source, imho these names should stay on talk page. There have been hoaxes on Wikipedia before, where editors, for fun, add in fake names/friend's names etc. Wikipedia is an an encyclopedia, and readers should be able to rely on what they read here. Here are the added names....if a WP:Reliable source indicates that they are important disco DJs we can put them back:
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A list of possible disco music in the post-disco era not mentioned in the article. What does everyone think? I admit some are more disco influenced and not disco music per se.
Aamma58 ( talk) 11:57, 16 December 2017 (UTC)Aamma58
This article is odd. What on earth are all those other genres doing in this section? Surely the "Soul" section should contain Disco under that logic as it is the main inspiration for the music? This is clearly written by Disco fans - and lacks objectivity.
( 81.131.156.109 ( talk) 17:52, 1 February 2018 (UTC))
Sylvester was known as the "Queen of Disco." Don't you think Sylvester was an important figure in disco who should be mentioned in this article? I wouldn't be the best one to add this coverage, but the Wikipedia article about the singer that I linked above provides some content that could be quoted or summarized. Ikan Kekek ( talk) 11:20, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
Hi, my name is Saiyuki4ever, and I've read your suggestion: in my humble opinion Sylvester was certainly an important Disco artist, but I don't know if you could compare him to other artists and bands who have made a lot of famous disco hits and that we remember them for more than a disco song, unlike this singer. Waiting your answers, I wish you all a good surfing on Wikipedia
Saiyuki4ever Saiyuki4ever ( talk) 14:11, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
I made two reverts in the original from LGBT back to Gay and I deleted hippie as an influence altogether
LBGT. First of all LBGT was a term that did not exist in the early 1970's. While there might have been lesbians and bisexuals involved in the formation of disco music the primary homosexual demographic involved in the formation of disco music and culture were gay men. The fact the lesbians are people also is completely irreverent.
Hippies - The Hippie encyclopedia used as their primary source the Wikipedia article on hippies. Using Wikipedia as a source is not allowed. On the merit the claim of hippie is very questionable. Sly and The Family Stone were a hippie band that was very important in the formation of disco music. Beyond that there is really no other hippie group that comes immediately to mind. Hippies are primarily associated with rock music not disco. Ex hippies were heavily involved in the backlash against disco music. Hippies were dress down disco was dress up. Edkollin ( talk) 01:35, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
I've included more detail about "crossover appeal" with non-disco artists and music fans. Also, I've created more sectional sub-division--especially with the "Pop pre-eminence" and "Backlash and decline" sections--for additional clarity. Finally, I've made a section out of the dubious paragraph about the "gay commentary" of disco, ala Village People, and moved it into the "Disco clubs and culture" section. It really doesn't belong in the "Pop pre-eminence" part. RobertGustafson ( talk) 11:36, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
I know that MTV--or one of its sister channels--did a documentary on the disco era, blaming the success of Saturday Night Fever for causing disco to be overexposed, thus causing people to tire of it. I can't recall the specific show; if someone can come up with it and add the reference (to the final paragraph of "Factors") that would be great. Personally, I find it much more credible to blame the music itself for its decline (styles fall in and out of favor) than politics and prejudice, and I don't think the non-musical factors should have such a disproportionate emphasis.
I also think that the case for disco's decline being traced to a specific July 1979 event is over-made. Disco was already falling out of favor in 1978--cf. The Who's "Sister Disco", which some see as a critique of disco,--and incorporating heavy disco elements into pop/rock songs continued to make hits even after "Disco Demolition Night"--cf. Pink Floyd's "Another Brick In The Wall, Part 2", a hit of late 1979 and early 1980, and J. Geils Band's "Come Back" in 1980 (although the latter is sorta more representative of the 1980s' post-disco dance music). If nothing else, the final paragraph of the "opening section" at the top of the article should be revised to put less emphasis on the DDN event and more on evolving musical tastes. (Indeed, the opening is kinda long and includes a lot of details better off saved for the body of the article.)
RobertGustafson ( talk) 11:17, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
See WP:RS
See WP:OR
Using Reliable Sources, verifiable not necessarily truth and no original research are the cornerstones of Wikipedia editing and you have gone against this. There are no citations used for your additions they seem to be based on what you "know" to be the truth. I get you are probably just editing by the article based on how others have edited this article. The "cornerstones" have been continuously been ignored here. That of course is not your fault but at the end of the day two wrongs do not make a right. As an editor seeing this situation I have several options ignore it, give a warning which I did on top of the article which I did months ago or delete the originally researched material which I did here.
I do not disapprove of what you are trying to do and you write well and are knowledgeable on the topic. I like the revised subsection headings but these rules have been put in place for a reason. To see a genre article that follows the rules look at this article.
By the way, whilethe backlash was growing after '77 disco's popularity was not declining but hitting its peak. As we noted in the article the week of the Disco Demolition night the top 6 songs were disco. During one week in February 78 9 of the top 10 songs were from Saturday Night Fever. Most a the Rock star "disco" songs were in 1978-79. Notice that even though I "know" this to be the truth I have not added it to the article and won't until a I find reliable sources claiming this.
Following the rules is slow, tedious and frustrating at times. Blogs message boards etc are much faster. Edkollin ( talk) 01:03, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
Edkollin: In doing your revert, you removed a lot of non-objectionable additions, including corrections on band and song names; sub-section divisions about crossover appeal, disco revisions, and parodies; and additional examples of crossover songs and anti-disco songs. I have restored everything EXCEPT for the alternate interpretation of disco's decline--which, yes, was unsourced and therefore questionable. Personally, I still stand by the fact that an MTV-family station documentary was made (if anyone can find it and reference it, great) attributing disco's decline to artistic rather than social factors. My personal memory of the disco's decline--which I lived through, although personal experience is inadmissable--is that it had more to do with evolving musical tastes than with politics and prejudice. Even though those latter explanations are sourced, they don't ring true. YOUR POINT IS TAKEN, THOUGH. I advise that if you find a questionable addition, don't do a blanket revert--throwing out good with bad--but instead remove or fix the SPECIFIC questionable additions. RobertGustafson ( talk) 09:59, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
Edkollin, I was already familiar with Wikipedia's policies regarding OR and sources, and I know that it is not necessarily necessary that a source be specifically cited in order to include something, provided that a source exists. I referred to an MTV documentary on the disco movement, and while I fault myself for not specifically mentioning "according to an MTV-related documentary" IN THE ARTICLE when attempting to talk musical reasons for disco's decline, the documentary was made, and anyone can look for it. I will attempt to find it, as it backs up most of what I said in the final paragraph of "Factors" that you removed by reversion. (I will not re-add its points, though, until I can find it.) In any case, what I originally added to "Factors" was not personal opinion or synthesis, and certainly wasn't intended as such. Once again, I suggest that if you find something objectionable, just remove or alter the objectionable text or section. Reverting the whole page sweeps away the grain with the chaff.
Also, I would have some advice for you, Edkollin. Since the "omniscient narrator" of a Wikipedia article is supposed to be objective, any editor should avoid asserting causality when there's merely a corellation--except when including a clear "according to this source" qualification. This is especially important when attributing "outside" causes to something--i.e., non-musical factors in a musical genre's decline. The original final paragraph of the lead-in asserts a specific cause-and-effect relationship between DDN and disco's overall decline in popularity as if it were an established, proven fact. While reliable sources are a necessary condition for asserting something, they are not a sufficient condition. (And while "truth" may not be sufficient, it is necessary.) And in Logic Class I learned never to accept anything on pure authority. I don't think enough research has been done to provide a balanced set of factors for the genre's fall from grace--especially when no artistic explanations are given. (What? A form of music becomes passe for almost entirely non-musical reasons?! See the talk section on "Decline" above for more.)
I personally may not be the right person to comment on the artistic and other non-social reasons behind it (in fact, disco is hardly my favorite subject, despite my attention to this article), but someone should delve into the artistic problems musicians and music fans had with disco. The article should not attribute, with an air of "objectivity", a single event in July 1979 to disco's wholesale fall--let alone have such an emphasis on non-musical factors without hard evidence as opposed to simply testimony of critics: i.e., Did requests for disco airplay or sales of disco records suddenly drop after July 1979? Did public opinion polls show a marked decline in support for disco soon after July 1979? Is there polling--or at least significant anecdotal testimony--of music fans giving political or "sociological" reasons for their not listening to or buying disco songs? Or do polls, sales, and requests on music in the late '70's show a more nuanced picture? (Research worth doing.)
I have revised "Factors" so that economic and political factors (source is preserved) are mentioned more obliquely and the mention of AIDS is removed. The major tanking of the Carter-era economy, the rise of Ronald Regan, and the becoming-public of AIDS all happened in 1980, after disco had starting tanking in a big way. Also, both ideas in the sentence cite the same source, so only one citation is needed. The opening sentence now reads:
I have also added that sentence to the following paragraph, and moved the last sentence or two of that (originally 2nd) paragraph, regarding the rock industry--along with Gloria Gaynor's theory (originally in the 1st)--to a separate paragraph at the end. The first two original paragraphs each lists both sociopolitical reasons and music-industry reason in the same paragraph; the music-industry specific stuff doesn't belong with the sociopolitical stuff. Note that I have merely rearranged (and slighly rephrased) things! RobertGustafson ( talk) 19:25, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
I understand the factors discussed here, but as a person Viola Wills called onto stage to dance with her, and who was asked to perform with Gloria Gaynor the following year, I have to say disco was not dead in 1979. It wasn't until the second half of the '90s that I met these women. The late Ms. Wills played a significant role on the Saturday night fever album. It could be argued that it was the movie which really signaled the end of this era. Nightclubs have always evolved with the times and usually are trend setting places. Much content is created for dance spaces including remixes that far exceed the normal radio edit. For a song to top the disco charts really was significant. Laura Branigan was one of the first live performers I saw in a nightclub and that wasn't until 1986, so did she perform in a disco? I would say yes. Barry White is another name not included here. Mrphilip ( talk) 00:41, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
I have removed "Hedonism" from the section title as the section deals specifically with drugs and sex, not hedonism in general. RobertGustafson ( talk) 20:24, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
Don't think the revisions are vandalism but more of a content dispute but going with "gay" is the for the best as that is the word the source used. Edkollin ( talk) 21:32, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
I agree; please leave it as "gay" unless sources can be cited to suggest otherwise. There's a cited source that specifically mentions gay males. Where is the source that refers to the wider LGBT population? LGBT is not a strict synonym for gay. More generally, this is underscoring the need for more rigorous sourcing and citations in this article. You all know the rules. Take the time to support your contentious edits with citations. — mjb ( talk) 03:29, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
Hi there, Ed.
I see that you reverted my contribution to the article disco (rev. 540134647) over the claims of zero sources. You, however, correctly used the word "used" which is past tense and fear not, this is not a grammar lesson but a reminder that ideas presented in the sources are terminologically dated and that's why we should use the terms of the world of today. I'd suggest using the label "LGBT" instead of "gay" since the modern meaning of the word "gay" doesn't incorporate all aspects of LGBT community whether back in the '70s the "gay" was used for people of homosexual orientation and bisexuals, lesbians and transgenders alike thus using LGBT is imo right thing to do. We should not omit mentioning these people' communities because people of transgender, lesbian and bisexual orientation played a significant part on the development of disco music as well.
Sincerely, ItsAlwaysLupus ( talk) 21:38, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
View from the bleachers. I believe gay is the appropriate word for we are discussing an article about a time in the past and should not use vocabulary of today which includes segments of the larger LGBTQ community who were not really a part of what was disco. At the time it was gay men that disco catered to. This might sound ugly, but much revolved around money and gay men had more of it to spend. It was not a cheap date to go to the disco. How much of an influence did gay men have on fashion? How much did fashion play a role in disco? The age of equality within the LGBTQ community is still in progress as cis-male identified individuals are still learning about diversity and inclusion in 2018. The gay community was very much a closed circle in the early years. Lesbians and gay men really only came together when AIDS hit. ABC's When We Rise accurately portrayed the separation of these two parts of the homosexual world.
Please remember, the disco era took place when people still called it a Gay Rights Movement. Gay & Lesbian started be used when referring to Pride Marches in the early 1980's, with many cities alternating to Lesbian & Gay every other year. Bisexual was added in the 1990's, transexual came next (and some have taken issue with the fact that transvestites are lumped in with transexuals when they are completely different things, but I digress). Why hasn't anyone lobbied for LGBTI or LGBTQ to be used here? GLAAD, in 2018, still says we are to use LGBTQ as the accepted term when writing about the community.
Final word if you really want to be current on what to call the community. The NIH has designated queer people as a Sexual and Gender Minority and is currently funding 2016-2020 research through the SGMRO (research office, though I think the R should stand for Reparations as Canada has already admitted are due). This change was made to effectively streamline their reporting procedures for everything they must gather for Congress and the American people. While they have not yet been granted all the protections intrinsic to a named minority class, SGM is the term that will one day be accepted and once formally introduced outside DC circles, will be the answer to the equality that has yet to be fully realized. That said, disco in the era this article refers to was truly a gay thing, not an LGBTQ thing. Okay, maybe the B (but even here only referring to the men) of LGBT, just don't tell their wives, bosses, or neighbors. Mrphilip ( talk) 01:30, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
why does this article include See also: List of DJ Magazine's Top 100 DJs https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=List_of_DJ_Magazine%27s_Top_100_DJs&action=edit&redlink=1 when no such link is live. Better source needed. Mrphilip ( talk) 01:35, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
How can this purport to explain the origin of disco with no listing of "Theme from Shaft"? This mentality is what makes wp the joke it famously is, either you weren't around then or are just throwing your weight around pointlessly trying to revise history... — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
71.246.148.57 (
talk)
12:09, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
:Are you kidding ? if the origin and predecessor of disco could be summarized in just one song, that would be it. Any reputable source (not wikipedia obviously ) will mention it if you bother looking . None of the other examples there have any cite whatsoever but you seem to be claiming some sort of precedence over other editors to be the one to make the judgment call that nobody else's contribution needs citation , only MY contribution needs citation.
71.246.148.57 (
talk)
12:32, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
::::: I don't know why you have apparently confused me with one or more other contributors but that all is nothing to do with me ... but that doesn't seem to matter much in your world where you can just appoint yourself as the referee, make whatever accusations you like, treat IP editors like peons regardless of common sense , and plunder forward like a bull in a china shop. This is truly one of the uglier corners of the internet thanks to you guys.
71.246.152.225 (
talk)
15:11, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
While most of disco’s musical sources and performers were African American, the genre’s popularity transcended ethnic lines, including both interracial groups (e.g., KC and the Sunshine Band) and genre-blending ensembles (e.g., the Salsoul Orchestra).
Basically, other ethnicities liked it and contributed to it.This Wiki implies Italians created it.
List the Italian Artists and And Italian Genres that created it. If you research Italian-American singers, you won't find many amd most persorm Jazz and Swing, which are also African-American in orgin. No one is denying contributions by others groups. Also, the death to Disco and the ball park was motivated by racism and rejection of black music. This is why MTV refused for years to play black artists. MTV stated they were a Rock music venue. Period.
Most Disco performers were African-American. First and Earliest Disco performers are African-Americans. The genres used African-Americans are mostly African-American. The genres thas camee from Disco... The same.. What they teach at colleges?? That is is an African-American genre.
Jesus can't blacks have their culture. It is the same with every genre... now we have white rappers. Next Italian Rappers created rape. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:5500:5081:6D00:70F8:CBFD:D79F:5ACD ( talk) 11:10, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
I recall seeing a documentary on VH1 or MTV or similar back in the 1990s in which the production team of Saturday Night Fever discussed the film. The Bee Gees stated that they didn't create disco - and that disco was a mass of influences, like most other music, and one of the production team described his horror at seeing a "DISCO SUCKS!" sticker on the back of a car before the movie was released in late 1977 and, aware of a disco "backlash" already, was alarmed that the film would bomb.
I will search for this documentary and others may like to look too. I'm a Disco fan, but this article seems to rely far too much on unsubstantiated views and feels rather far away from the 1970s reality. As for the idea that Disco sprang pure and formed straight from the ground, there's really not enough here of its influences - and far too much is made of its influence on other genres in my opinion. This reads rather like a Disco fanzine!
( 81.131.156.109 ( talk) 18:28, 1 February 2018 (UTC))
While most of disco’s musical sources and performers were African American, the genre’s popularity transcended ethnic lines, including both interracial groups (e.g., KC and the Sunshine Band) and genre-blending ensembles (e.g., the Salsoul Orchestra). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:5500:5081:6D00:70F8:CBFD:D79F:5ACD ( talk) 11:12, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 19:52, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
In the section " Timeframe and ... New York", there's the sentence: "... The assassinations of Dr. Martin Luther King and John F. Kennedy and the Watergate scandal left many feeling disillusioned and hopeless". The assassination of JFK took place way before all the other events mentioned. It's just doesn't fit the timeline. Isn't the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy more appropriate here? MySmallContribution ( talk) 14:50, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
I did a major rewrite with the idea of putting one topic per paragraph. During the rewrite I came across material that was making the same point twice. When that happened I just left the quote from an actual person in. I renamed the section to reflect what was in the section. While I took out the sentence saying that there was not a focused backlash in Europe it was not because I think of it as unimportant. It was just that it is not great style to write about what did not happen and this section is about a US phenomenon. As I noted in the comments the various incarnations of Eurodisco need there own section(s). As I understand it there was some anti disco feeling in the UK among skinheads and the like but it never got to the level it did in the US. If cited material about this and other anto disco feeling elsewhere comes up the section could be renamed back. Edkollin ( talk) 15:34, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Many of the Trojan and RASH Skins love soul music, but never disco. In Britain, DIsco was often criticised by the punks, but they osften supported reggae too. ( Chris Henniker ( talk) 22:37, 18 July 2010 (UTC))
I just watched the "Rock with You" video for the first time in a long time. I think it qualifies as disco. It has violins, it's funky, and it has a "4 to the floor" beat. What do you think? Does the song deserve specific mention in the article, or is the article long enough and replete with enough mentions to the Jacksons already? Ikan Kekek ( talk) 07:37, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia currently lacks article on discofunk. I even doubt this genre existed, but I use this term for tracks like NYC Peach Boys - Don't Make Me Wait, I mean four-to-the-floor disco-like music but without orchestras, without soulful disco vocals but with a typical funk pattern instead (many wah-wah guitars, funky horns, simple to monotonic to declamative funky vocals etc.) that was kinda popular around 1977-1982. What is the right term for such music? -- 217.21.43.222 ( talk) 08:42, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi, just so you know, Boogie is not just Boogie Woogie, it's also the name of a Post-Disco genre. Also, Disco did not cease being made in The Disco Demolition Night, it just stopped being popular. Also,as far as I know 'Disco-Funk' does not exist. Disco is already a type of Funk. That's like saying 'Rock-Metal' or 'A Capella-Doo Wop'.n-- Dark Lord Thomas Pie ( talk) 13:08, 1 October 2020 (UTC) [Dark Lord Thomas Pie]
There is at the time of writing an section titled "2020s: Resurgence in mainstream popularity of disco and related cultural phenomena." The evidence given is several songs, as well as a renewed interest in disco related activities such as roller skating. However, just a few songs does not make for a trend, and as the section on the 2010s notes, disco influenced songs are not new. Is it really appropriate to have that section's title when there is not much evidence for a significant shift in the musical landscape? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8800:1B03:6200:2D64:8EFE:3481:B2E1 ( talk) 22:20, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
The section on "Eroticism and sexual liberation" opens with a quote from Peter Braunstein. Curious about his qualifications on the subject I looked at his article, and it turns out he's both a convicted rapist and at some point wrote a "hit list" of gay men he wanted to "punish" (though that claim isn't cited in his article). With this context the "hedonist's menu" part of his quote especially takes on a very suspect subtext. It seems to me both of these things call into question any insight he might have had on this particular subculture and its sexual proclivities. Given this, can he be considered a reliable source? If not removed entirely, might it at least be pertinent to add some of this context to his claims so readers know he may have some bias on issues of sex and homosexuality? I.e. "According to rapist Peter Braunstein..."? 204.112.199.2 ( talk) 04:58, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
This article has recently seen unreferenced editing from a variety of IP addresses, which put it into protection. The same sorts of edits have also been coming to other music articles, and one of the edit summaries at Luther Vandross saying "Af Am 327" led me to a particular graduate class at Northwestern University, in the African American Studies program, Af Am 327. The class description doesn't say anything about Wikipedia, but it says they are working on all the articles that have recently seen a flurry of editing from IPs, for instance Afrobeats and Jungle music. It looks like this professor is asking students to edit Wikipedia. To their credit, most of the edits are referenced, unlike the ones that were reverted here. Binksternet ( talk) 02:23, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Annnaaa29.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 19:34, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
I'd like to contest the idea that Disco is a genre of Latin music. Whenever I hear disco music, I never hear anything that sounds Latin. 47.36.25.163 ( talk) 21:40, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
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I remember the Disco era and always thought of it in terms of the early 70s start period and hitting its peak in the later 70s. That all makes sense until you look at these lyrics form the Kinks "Dedicated Follower Of Fashion" from 1966: …Oh yes he is (oh yes he is), oh yes he is (oh yes he is). His world is built 'round DISCOTEQUES and parties. This pleasure-seeking individual always looks his best 'Cause he's a dedicated follower of fashion… — Preceding unsigned comment added by Warwren01 ( talk • contribs) 18:51, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
Jimmy Saville claims to have organised the first "disc only night" disc'o' in 1943/44 in Leeds [2] [3], where he played 78's of the big bands of the time. MBorrill ( talk) 20:57, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
Why are there so many quotes and pespectives from a punk perspective about an article on disco, when the material on disco reads like a litany of meaningless facts and song placement. It would seem an article on disco would have more personal anecdotes and quotes from the people in the disco scene rather than perspectives from the punk scene. Is this a article on disco or how disco is/was perceived, namely by people who werent even born yet and insist punk has some, or really any kind, of current cultural relevance, which everyone knows it doesnt. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Redneckriverdude ( talk • contribs) 05:35, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
Disco was more influential on New Wave than on Post-punk —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rivet138 ( talk • contribs) 22:32, 5 December 2009 (UTC)
I agree with the sentiment at the top of this section. A lot of the sources are from people linked to disco's contemporary musical competitors, suggesting bias. More research needs to be done--including citing more sources from inside the movement--to properly characterize disco. In particular, the reasons given for its decline, and their sources, make that section look like a sociopolitical assessment rather than a musical assessment. I urge editors (besides me) to come up with sources having alternate points of view on disco and its decline. All in all, it makes you wonder who created this article in the first place; it's a good article, but it sounds like it was written by someone who didn't "get it". (I'm not personally a disco fan, but then it's not like a "musically foreign" style to me.) RobertGustafson ( talk) 13:55, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
Why and where does this article need additional citations for verification? What references does it need and how should they be added? Hyacinth ( talk) 00:58, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
Why and where does this article include excessive, poor or irrelevant examples? Which should be removed and why? Hyacinth ( talk) 01:01, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
I don't have time to go point by point but my basic view remains he same I agree with a lot of your points and respect your knowledge of the subject but have a problem with your what I think are your (and a lot of other editors of this article) over relaxed view of the rules.
"I advise that if you find a questionable addition, don't do a blanket revert--throwing out good with bad--but instead remove or fix the SPECIFIC questionable additions." OK but on the other hand you found questionable parts of the the article and did not make surgical changes but massive unsourced additions/revisions covering several sections of the article. It is up to the editor who adds material to find sources for it. An editor who finds unsourced originally research material has several required options 1. Give a citation or other warnings. I have done that by putting the warning for the entire article for specific parts of the article. These warnings have been ignored. 2. Deleted the unsourced/original researched material. 3. Do the job the other editor was supposed to do and try and find sources. If sources are found add the sources, if they are not warn or delete. I have done that also. Usually I add a warning, and a lot of time I will do the job the other editor should have done because while most unsourced/original researched additions I deal with turn out not to have reliable sources for their claims, once in awhile the addition is sourced and is a valuable addition to the article. For a massive revision like yours it is impractical for me since I have a life and it is frankly unfair to expect me or any editor to spend hours it requires to use option 2 or 3. And the overall state of the article is poor. WP:CHALLENGE Edkollin( talk) 07:11, 11 March 2012 (UTC).
Causation in the lede. That was not my addition. While you are right in wanting that out but it was for the wrong reason. The correct reason is are there there are no sources for that claim.
MTV documentary. You can use the documentary itself as a source. While hyperlinks are preferable they are not required.
Punk: Cut down yes, delete no. Sources do consistently mention it but it is the not the dominant theme. (My Point of View Punk a lot of times is given undue weight when discussing that era because of importance since the late 70's. In the late 70's in the US it was a very minor phenomenon).
As for the reasons for the backlash a lot of them are in the section or in the sources used in that section. The music industry losing money, view that disco fans were vapid and elitist, that the sound was overproduced and synthetic, rock stars "selling" out. See cite numbers 35,38,44.And they do note that DDN was important to the temporary demise of disco so this has to be noted in the article. Not cited so not in the article are overkill which inevitably lowers the quality of the sound and makes people sick of it.
Personal Note: I wrote something about going to blogs which might at first glance seem insulting or flippant but was written seriously. While you can not follow every rule and you certainly don't have to like them, you should make a reasonable effort to follow and respect them. You did that much better this time around still see "I know" "I think" as reasoning for revisions. Is Wikipedia the place for you? With your knowledge and writing skills I hope so as you can turn this article around. If not maybe I will be citing your article someday.
I will leave your revisions alone for a few weeks and see what you come up with. This does not mean I won't delete others unsourced additions Edkollin ( talk) 09:13, 11 March 2012 (UTC))
Did rassism play a role in the anti-disco movement? Because many disco artist were black. So they were excluded from white society and went back to the ghetto to create Hip-Hop. And nowadays R&B is king of music. But, I am not an American historian to know all this for sure. Still the anti-disco movement looks very white and very strange, too! Like a KKK event. Anyway, the message of disco was love and tolerance, the message of punk is rage and hatred, for sure. -- 178.197.234.47 ( talk) 04:07, 17 September 2012 (UTC)
There seem to be lack of understanding of what that means so I will quote a portion of WP:RELY:
Cluttering articles (expanding them by entire paragraphs) with your favorite TV show doesn't qualify. Loginnigol ( talk) 06:48, 27 April 2013 (UTC)
Cite error: There are <ref>
tags on this page without content in them (see the
help page).The section on disco fashion is too short and too general. In 1978-79 there were major changes to fashion, shirt collars got small, ties and lapels got narrow, and in a very short period of time the look shown in Saturday Night Fever was very dated. Also, in many of the trendiest clubs, very casual clothes (e.g. jeans) were allowed as long as they were very trendy. In New York the store Fiorucc featured such things as very high priced (for the time) dark denim jeans, leather jeans, and men's shirts with small button down collars but in bright stripes and prints; also such of-the-moment items as double wrap belts, retro looking sneakers, and a kind of disco version of the cowboy look, very popular in the last year and a half of the 70's. Like Cite error: There are <ref>
tags on this page without content in them (see the
help page).disco music, the fashion evolved and 1978 and 1979 were noticeably different from the earlier years. Women continued to wear dresses, usually with long skirts and often with vests and gathered seams in 78-79 though they too wore trendy jeans, often with high heeled shoes, typically open sandals but later in the form of pumps.
I never thought of that as a disco song, and to my ears, it is not, whereas "Get Lucky" clearly is. What style elements of disco does it have, other than repetitiveness? Ikan Kekek ( talk) 01:12, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
In the United States, there were some pre-1974 precursors, and some disco-sounding records charted in 1974, but the great majority of the general population (outside a few urban neighborhoods) did not become aware of "disco" as a distinct musical style and social scene under that name until at least 1975 when "The Hustle" charted -- and of course disco's biggest mainstream success didn't occur until Saturday Night Fever in 1977/1978... AnonMoos ( talk) 07:56, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
Abba was not a disco group. They were a pop group that latched on to a disco by producing and performing about 5 disco songs. They jumped on the bandwagon like many other people did. At the height of Disco they sang songs like Take A Chance on Me, The Name of the Game, Fernando, Chiquitita, Eagle. They were not Disco songs — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:7:8500:982:895E:FA76:8104:45BB ( talk) 05:49, 7 November 2014 (UTC)
Disco developed in the early 70s to 80s, with funk and psychadelic rock becoming more dance-able, while fusing with soul. A genre-defining prime example of said fusion is James Brown's "The Payback," 1973. Also, disco became more pop-oriented when artists such as Michael Jackson (on "Off the Wall") and ABBA became mainstream. Death metal developed in the late 80s (long after disco's heyday, mind you) with aggressive thrash metal and the first wave of black metal, and even some grindcore; a good example of the thin line between thrash and death metal at the time was Death's "Scream Bloody Gore," 1987, erstwhile defining the genre with albums like "Butchered at Birth," Cannibal Corpse, 1991, and "Covenant," Morbid Angel, 1993. Disco and Death Metal are EXTREMELY far away from each other musically, the sole similarity being that they both were bore from rock music. However, on the wiki page for disco, it says that one of disco's main influences was death metal. This is not right, and one may know this from reason alone; hence, without living during the development of the two genres. Had the editor been a wise and intelligent man (such is the type of the author of this passage) then he would have known this primarily. Henceforth, the editor was not using reason to any extent -- said influence should be deleted from the original article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.44.134.78 ( talk) 21:59, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
These have been removed as per MOS:LEAD. This section is intended as a summary of the main body of text and is usually not referenced (as all material is dealt with in the main article). References removed include:
[1] [nb 1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] [10] [1] [11] [8] [12] [13]
References
ComiskyThriller
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).References
Catfish Jim and the soapdish 10:34, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
This article stands very strange position about Disco origins. I guess music is made by musicians, so if 99% of proto-disco musicians were gay, disco should be a gay music for gays & the whole organisation. Sly and The Family Stone, Isaac Hayes, Willie Hutch, MFSB, Jerry Butler, Jimi Hendrix, Manu Dibango, Harold Melvin, Bee Gees (well...), etc = not gay (I have some fine references If you want). This is just strange, gays made a musical genre, but they're NOT gays? RockandDiscoFanCZ ( talk) 19:48, 25 December 2009 (UTC)
I note the complete absence of any reference to one of the MOST emblematic groups, the Village People and YMCA. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Baron D. Z. ( talk • contribs) 03:23, 9 May 2013 (UTC)
The most successful duo in the history of disco music was also omitted: the Pet Shop Boys. However, the article gives relevance to one-hot wonders such as Freeez.
the description of dance-punk in this article wrong — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.120.194.67 ( talk) 04:02, 5 March 2016 (UTC)
It is an oversimplification to say that Punk, particularly in the United Kingdom, was hostile to disco. Many early Sex Pistols fans in the UK such as the Bromley Contingent and Jordan quite liked disco, which was why nightclubs such as Louise's in Soho and later the Sombrero in Kensignton because frequent hangouts for the early Sex Pistols crowd. The track Love Hangover by Diana Ross (the house anthem at Louise's) was cited as a particular favourite by many early Punks. I think that qualifiers should be put into the references to punk antipathy to reflect this properly. 62.190.148.115 ( talk) 12:23, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
Hi everybody wikifellows, my name is Saiyuki4ever and I edited this page in these days, but I had my edits reverted in the last hours, even those which were not betterings but corrections also of links.... I pray you of not to revert anymore my edits because if I make these edits is only in the English Wikipedia exclusive interests, not mine. I wish you all a good surfing on the Internet.
Saiyuki4ever Saiyuki4ever ( talk) 22:55, 19 February 2017 (UTC)
Yes, sure. But thus is just how you play I Feel Love, oh no, it's Don't Leave Me This Way. That's the best one . 88.111.238.175 ( talk) 10:39, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
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Hi all. An editor added the following DJs and said they were important disco DJs. No sources or references. As per WP guidelines and policies, it is the responsibility of the editor who adds content to provide a reliable source. Until we have a reliable source, imho these names should stay on talk page. There have been hoaxes on Wikipedia before, where editors, for fun, add in fake names/friend's names etc. Wikipedia is an an encyclopedia, and readers should be able to rely on what they read here. Here are the added names....if a WP:Reliable source indicates that they are important disco DJs we can put them back:
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A list of possible disco music in the post-disco era not mentioned in the article. What does everyone think? I admit some are more disco influenced and not disco music per se.
Aamma58 ( talk) 11:57, 16 December 2017 (UTC)Aamma58
This article is odd. What on earth are all those other genres doing in this section? Surely the "Soul" section should contain Disco under that logic as it is the main inspiration for the music? This is clearly written by Disco fans - and lacks objectivity.
( 81.131.156.109 ( talk) 17:52, 1 February 2018 (UTC))
Sylvester was known as the "Queen of Disco." Don't you think Sylvester was an important figure in disco who should be mentioned in this article? I wouldn't be the best one to add this coverage, but the Wikipedia article about the singer that I linked above provides some content that could be quoted or summarized. Ikan Kekek ( talk) 11:20, 20 November 2015 (UTC)
Hi, my name is Saiyuki4ever, and I've read your suggestion: in my humble opinion Sylvester was certainly an important Disco artist, but I don't know if you could compare him to other artists and bands who have made a lot of famous disco hits and that we remember them for more than a disco song, unlike this singer. Waiting your answers, I wish you all a good surfing on Wikipedia
Saiyuki4ever Saiyuki4ever ( talk) 14:11, 11 March 2017 (UTC)
I made two reverts in the original from LGBT back to Gay and I deleted hippie as an influence altogether
LBGT. First of all LBGT was a term that did not exist in the early 1970's. While there might have been lesbians and bisexuals involved in the formation of disco music the primary homosexual demographic involved in the formation of disco music and culture were gay men. The fact the lesbians are people also is completely irreverent.
Hippies - The Hippie encyclopedia used as their primary source the Wikipedia article on hippies. Using Wikipedia as a source is not allowed. On the merit the claim of hippie is very questionable. Sly and The Family Stone were a hippie band that was very important in the formation of disco music. Beyond that there is really no other hippie group that comes immediately to mind. Hippies are primarily associated with rock music not disco. Ex hippies were heavily involved in the backlash against disco music. Hippies were dress down disco was dress up. Edkollin ( talk) 01:35, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
I've included more detail about "crossover appeal" with non-disco artists and music fans. Also, I've created more sectional sub-division--especially with the "Pop pre-eminence" and "Backlash and decline" sections--for additional clarity. Finally, I've made a section out of the dubious paragraph about the "gay commentary" of disco, ala Village People, and moved it into the "Disco clubs and culture" section. It really doesn't belong in the "Pop pre-eminence" part. RobertGustafson ( talk) 11:36, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
I know that MTV--or one of its sister channels--did a documentary on the disco era, blaming the success of Saturday Night Fever for causing disco to be overexposed, thus causing people to tire of it. I can't recall the specific show; if someone can come up with it and add the reference (to the final paragraph of "Factors") that would be great. Personally, I find it much more credible to blame the music itself for its decline (styles fall in and out of favor) than politics and prejudice, and I don't think the non-musical factors should have such a disproportionate emphasis.
I also think that the case for disco's decline being traced to a specific July 1979 event is over-made. Disco was already falling out of favor in 1978--cf. The Who's "Sister Disco", which some see as a critique of disco,--and incorporating heavy disco elements into pop/rock songs continued to make hits even after "Disco Demolition Night"--cf. Pink Floyd's "Another Brick In The Wall, Part 2", a hit of late 1979 and early 1980, and J. Geils Band's "Come Back" in 1980 (although the latter is sorta more representative of the 1980s' post-disco dance music). If nothing else, the final paragraph of the "opening section" at the top of the article should be revised to put less emphasis on the DDN event and more on evolving musical tastes. (Indeed, the opening is kinda long and includes a lot of details better off saved for the body of the article.)
RobertGustafson ( talk) 11:17, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
See WP:RS
See WP:OR
Using Reliable Sources, verifiable not necessarily truth and no original research are the cornerstones of Wikipedia editing and you have gone against this. There are no citations used for your additions they seem to be based on what you "know" to be the truth. I get you are probably just editing by the article based on how others have edited this article. The "cornerstones" have been continuously been ignored here. That of course is not your fault but at the end of the day two wrongs do not make a right. As an editor seeing this situation I have several options ignore it, give a warning which I did on top of the article which I did months ago or delete the originally researched material which I did here.
I do not disapprove of what you are trying to do and you write well and are knowledgeable on the topic. I like the revised subsection headings but these rules have been put in place for a reason. To see a genre article that follows the rules look at this article.
By the way, whilethe backlash was growing after '77 disco's popularity was not declining but hitting its peak. As we noted in the article the week of the Disco Demolition night the top 6 songs were disco. During one week in February 78 9 of the top 10 songs were from Saturday Night Fever. Most a the Rock star "disco" songs were in 1978-79. Notice that even though I "know" this to be the truth I have not added it to the article and won't until a I find reliable sources claiming this.
Following the rules is slow, tedious and frustrating at times. Blogs message boards etc are much faster. Edkollin ( talk) 01:03, 6 March 2012 (UTC)
Edkollin: In doing your revert, you removed a lot of non-objectionable additions, including corrections on band and song names; sub-section divisions about crossover appeal, disco revisions, and parodies; and additional examples of crossover songs and anti-disco songs. I have restored everything EXCEPT for the alternate interpretation of disco's decline--which, yes, was unsourced and therefore questionable. Personally, I still stand by the fact that an MTV-family station documentary was made (if anyone can find it and reference it, great) attributing disco's decline to artistic rather than social factors. My personal memory of the disco's decline--which I lived through, although personal experience is inadmissable--is that it had more to do with evolving musical tastes than with politics and prejudice. Even though those latter explanations are sourced, they don't ring true. YOUR POINT IS TAKEN, THOUGH. I advise that if you find a questionable addition, don't do a blanket revert--throwing out good with bad--but instead remove or fix the SPECIFIC questionable additions. RobertGustafson ( talk) 09:59, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
Edkollin, I was already familiar with Wikipedia's policies regarding OR and sources, and I know that it is not necessarily necessary that a source be specifically cited in order to include something, provided that a source exists. I referred to an MTV documentary on the disco movement, and while I fault myself for not specifically mentioning "according to an MTV-related documentary" IN THE ARTICLE when attempting to talk musical reasons for disco's decline, the documentary was made, and anyone can look for it. I will attempt to find it, as it backs up most of what I said in the final paragraph of "Factors" that you removed by reversion. (I will not re-add its points, though, until I can find it.) In any case, what I originally added to "Factors" was not personal opinion or synthesis, and certainly wasn't intended as such. Once again, I suggest that if you find something objectionable, just remove or alter the objectionable text or section. Reverting the whole page sweeps away the grain with the chaff.
Also, I would have some advice for you, Edkollin. Since the "omniscient narrator" of a Wikipedia article is supposed to be objective, any editor should avoid asserting causality when there's merely a corellation--except when including a clear "according to this source" qualification. This is especially important when attributing "outside" causes to something--i.e., non-musical factors in a musical genre's decline. The original final paragraph of the lead-in asserts a specific cause-and-effect relationship between DDN and disco's overall decline in popularity as if it were an established, proven fact. While reliable sources are a necessary condition for asserting something, they are not a sufficient condition. (And while "truth" may not be sufficient, it is necessary.) And in Logic Class I learned never to accept anything on pure authority. I don't think enough research has been done to provide a balanced set of factors for the genre's fall from grace--especially when no artistic explanations are given. (What? A form of music becomes passe for almost entirely non-musical reasons?! See the talk section on "Decline" above for more.)
I personally may not be the right person to comment on the artistic and other non-social reasons behind it (in fact, disco is hardly my favorite subject, despite my attention to this article), but someone should delve into the artistic problems musicians and music fans had with disco. The article should not attribute, with an air of "objectivity", a single event in July 1979 to disco's wholesale fall--let alone have such an emphasis on non-musical factors without hard evidence as opposed to simply testimony of critics: i.e., Did requests for disco airplay or sales of disco records suddenly drop after July 1979? Did public opinion polls show a marked decline in support for disco soon after July 1979? Is there polling--or at least significant anecdotal testimony--of music fans giving political or "sociological" reasons for their not listening to or buying disco songs? Or do polls, sales, and requests on music in the late '70's show a more nuanced picture? (Research worth doing.)
I have revised "Factors" so that economic and political factors (source is preserved) are mentioned more obliquely and the mention of AIDS is removed. The major tanking of the Carter-era economy, the rise of Ronald Regan, and the becoming-public of AIDS all happened in 1980, after disco had starting tanking in a big way. Also, both ideas in the sentence cite the same source, so only one citation is needed. The opening sentence now reads:
I have also added that sentence to the following paragraph, and moved the last sentence or two of that (originally 2nd) paragraph, regarding the rock industry--along with Gloria Gaynor's theory (originally in the 1st)--to a separate paragraph at the end. The first two original paragraphs each lists both sociopolitical reasons and music-industry reason in the same paragraph; the music-industry specific stuff doesn't belong with the sociopolitical stuff. Note that I have merely rearranged (and slighly rephrased) things! RobertGustafson ( talk) 19:25, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
I understand the factors discussed here, but as a person Viola Wills called onto stage to dance with her, and who was asked to perform with Gloria Gaynor the following year, I have to say disco was not dead in 1979. It wasn't until the second half of the '90s that I met these women. The late Ms. Wills played a significant role on the Saturday night fever album. It could be argued that it was the movie which really signaled the end of this era. Nightclubs have always evolved with the times and usually are trend setting places. Much content is created for dance spaces including remixes that far exceed the normal radio edit. For a song to top the disco charts really was significant. Laura Branigan was one of the first live performers I saw in a nightclub and that wasn't until 1986, so did she perform in a disco? I would say yes. Barry White is another name not included here. Mrphilip ( talk) 00:41, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
I have removed "Hedonism" from the section title as the section deals specifically with drugs and sex, not hedonism in general. RobertGustafson ( talk) 20:24, 9 March 2012 (UTC)
Don't think the revisions are vandalism but more of a content dispute but going with "gay" is the for the best as that is the word the source used. Edkollin ( talk) 21:32, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
I agree; please leave it as "gay" unless sources can be cited to suggest otherwise. There's a cited source that specifically mentions gay males. Where is the source that refers to the wider LGBT population? LGBT is not a strict synonym for gay. More generally, this is underscoring the need for more rigorous sourcing and citations in this article. You all know the rules. Take the time to support your contentious edits with citations. — mjb ( talk) 03:29, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
Hi there, Ed.
I see that you reverted my contribution to the article disco (rev. 540134647) over the claims of zero sources. You, however, correctly used the word "used" which is past tense and fear not, this is not a grammar lesson but a reminder that ideas presented in the sources are terminologically dated and that's why we should use the terms of the world of today. I'd suggest using the label "LGBT" instead of "gay" since the modern meaning of the word "gay" doesn't incorporate all aspects of LGBT community whether back in the '70s the "gay" was used for people of homosexual orientation and bisexuals, lesbians and transgenders alike thus using LGBT is imo right thing to do. We should not omit mentioning these people' communities because people of transgender, lesbian and bisexual orientation played a significant part on the development of disco music as well.
Sincerely, ItsAlwaysLupus ( talk) 21:38, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
View from the bleachers. I believe gay is the appropriate word for we are discussing an article about a time in the past and should not use vocabulary of today which includes segments of the larger LGBTQ community who were not really a part of what was disco. At the time it was gay men that disco catered to. This might sound ugly, but much revolved around money and gay men had more of it to spend. It was not a cheap date to go to the disco. How much of an influence did gay men have on fashion? How much did fashion play a role in disco? The age of equality within the LGBTQ community is still in progress as cis-male identified individuals are still learning about diversity and inclusion in 2018. The gay community was very much a closed circle in the early years. Lesbians and gay men really only came together when AIDS hit. ABC's When We Rise accurately portrayed the separation of these two parts of the homosexual world.
Please remember, the disco era took place when people still called it a Gay Rights Movement. Gay & Lesbian started be used when referring to Pride Marches in the early 1980's, with many cities alternating to Lesbian & Gay every other year. Bisexual was added in the 1990's, transexual came next (and some have taken issue with the fact that transvestites are lumped in with transexuals when they are completely different things, but I digress). Why hasn't anyone lobbied for LGBTI or LGBTQ to be used here? GLAAD, in 2018, still says we are to use LGBTQ as the accepted term when writing about the community.
Final word if you really want to be current on what to call the community. The NIH has designated queer people as a Sexual and Gender Minority and is currently funding 2016-2020 research through the SGMRO (research office, though I think the R should stand for Reparations as Canada has already admitted are due). This change was made to effectively streamline their reporting procedures for everything they must gather for Congress and the American people. While they have not yet been granted all the protections intrinsic to a named minority class, SGM is the term that will one day be accepted and once formally introduced outside DC circles, will be the answer to the equality that has yet to be fully realized. That said, disco in the era this article refers to was truly a gay thing, not an LGBTQ thing. Okay, maybe the B (but even here only referring to the men) of LGBT, just don't tell their wives, bosses, or neighbors. Mrphilip ( talk) 01:30, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
why does this article include See also: List of DJ Magazine's Top 100 DJs https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=List_of_DJ_Magazine%27s_Top_100_DJs&action=edit&redlink=1 when no such link is live. Better source needed. Mrphilip ( talk) 01:35, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
How can this purport to explain the origin of disco with no listing of "Theme from Shaft"? This mentality is what makes wp the joke it famously is, either you weren't around then or are just throwing your weight around pointlessly trying to revise history... — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
71.246.148.57 (
talk)
12:09, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
:Are you kidding ? if the origin and predecessor of disco could be summarized in just one song, that would be it. Any reputable source (not wikipedia obviously ) will mention it if you bother looking . None of the other examples there have any cite whatsoever but you seem to be claiming some sort of precedence over other editors to be the one to make the judgment call that nobody else's contribution needs citation , only MY contribution needs citation.
71.246.148.57 (
talk)
12:32, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
::::: I don't know why you have apparently confused me with one or more other contributors but that all is nothing to do with me ... but that doesn't seem to matter much in your world where you can just appoint yourself as the referee, make whatever accusations you like, treat IP editors like peons regardless of common sense , and plunder forward like a bull in a china shop. This is truly one of the uglier corners of the internet thanks to you guys.
71.246.152.225 (
talk)
15:11, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
While most of disco’s musical sources and performers were African American, the genre’s popularity transcended ethnic lines, including both interracial groups (e.g., KC and the Sunshine Band) and genre-blending ensembles (e.g., the Salsoul Orchestra).
Basically, other ethnicities liked it and contributed to it.This Wiki implies Italians created it.
List the Italian Artists and And Italian Genres that created it. If you research Italian-American singers, you won't find many amd most persorm Jazz and Swing, which are also African-American in orgin. No one is denying contributions by others groups. Also, the death to Disco and the ball park was motivated by racism and rejection of black music. This is why MTV refused for years to play black artists. MTV stated they were a Rock music venue. Period.
Most Disco performers were African-American. First and Earliest Disco performers are African-Americans. The genres used African-Americans are mostly African-American. The genres thas camee from Disco... The same.. What they teach at colleges?? That is is an African-American genre.
Jesus can't blacks have their culture. It is the same with every genre... now we have white rappers. Next Italian Rappers created rape. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:5500:5081:6D00:70F8:CBFD:D79F:5ACD ( talk) 11:10, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
I recall seeing a documentary on VH1 or MTV or similar back in the 1990s in which the production team of Saturday Night Fever discussed the film. The Bee Gees stated that they didn't create disco - and that disco was a mass of influences, like most other music, and one of the production team described his horror at seeing a "DISCO SUCKS!" sticker on the back of a car before the movie was released in late 1977 and, aware of a disco "backlash" already, was alarmed that the film would bomb.
I will search for this documentary and others may like to look too. I'm a Disco fan, but this article seems to rely far too much on unsubstantiated views and feels rather far away from the 1970s reality. As for the idea that Disco sprang pure and formed straight from the ground, there's really not enough here of its influences - and far too much is made of its influence on other genres in my opinion. This reads rather like a Disco fanzine!
( 81.131.156.109 ( talk) 18:28, 1 February 2018 (UTC))
While most of disco’s musical sources and performers were African American, the genre’s popularity transcended ethnic lines, including both interracial groups (e.g., KC and the Sunshine Band) and genre-blending ensembles (e.g., the Salsoul Orchestra). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2604:5500:5081:6D00:70F8:CBFD:D79F:5ACD ( talk) 11:12, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 19:52, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
In the section " Timeframe and ... New York", there's the sentence: "... The assassinations of Dr. Martin Luther King and John F. Kennedy and the Watergate scandal left many feeling disillusioned and hopeless". The assassination of JFK took place way before all the other events mentioned. It's just doesn't fit the timeline. Isn't the assassination of Robert F. Kennedy more appropriate here? MySmallContribution ( talk) 14:50, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
I did a major rewrite with the idea of putting one topic per paragraph. During the rewrite I came across material that was making the same point twice. When that happened I just left the quote from an actual person in. I renamed the section to reflect what was in the section. While I took out the sentence saying that there was not a focused backlash in Europe it was not because I think of it as unimportant. It was just that it is not great style to write about what did not happen and this section is about a US phenomenon. As I noted in the comments the various incarnations of Eurodisco need there own section(s). As I understand it there was some anti disco feeling in the UK among skinheads and the like but it never got to the level it did in the US. If cited material about this and other anto disco feeling elsewhere comes up the section could be renamed back. Edkollin ( talk) 15:34, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Many of the Trojan and RASH Skins love soul music, but never disco. In Britain, DIsco was often criticised by the punks, but they osften supported reggae too. ( Chris Henniker ( talk) 22:37, 18 July 2010 (UTC))
I just watched the "Rock with You" video for the first time in a long time. I think it qualifies as disco. It has violins, it's funky, and it has a "4 to the floor" beat. What do you think? Does the song deserve specific mention in the article, or is the article long enough and replete with enough mentions to the Jacksons already? Ikan Kekek ( talk) 07:37, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia currently lacks article on discofunk. I even doubt this genre existed, but I use this term for tracks like NYC Peach Boys - Don't Make Me Wait, I mean four-to-the-floor disco-like music but without orchestras, without soulful disco vocals but with a typical funk pattern instead (many wah-wah guitars, funky horns, simple to monotonic to declamative funky vocals etc.) that was kinda popular around 1977-1982. What is the right term for such music? -- 217.21.43.222 ( talk) 08:42, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi, just so you know, Boogie is not just Boogie Woogie, it's also the name of a Post-Disco genre. Also, Disco did not cease being made in The Disco Demolition Night, it just stopped being popular. Also,as far as I know 'Disco-Funk' does not exist. Disco is already a type of Funk. That's like saying 'Rock-Metal' or 'A Capella-Doo Wop'.n-- Dark Lord Thomas Pie ( talk) 13:08, 1 October 2020 (UTC) [Dark Lord Thomas Pie]
There is at the time of writing an section titled "2020s: Resurgence in mainstream popularity of disco and related cultural phenomena." The evidence given is several songs, as well as a renewed interest in disco related activities such as roller skating. However, just a few songs does not make for a trend, and as the section on the 2010s notes, disco influenced songs are not new. Is it really appropriate to have that section's title when there is not much evidence for a significant shift in the musical landscape? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8800:1B03:6200:2D64:8EFE:3481:B2E1 ( talk) 22:20, 5 October 2020 (UTC)
The section on "Eroticism and sexual liberation" opens with a quote from Peter Braunstein. Curious about his qualifications on the subject I looked at his article, and it turns out he's both a convicted rapist and at some point wrote a "hit list" of gay men he wanted to "punish" (though that claim isn't cited in his article). With this context the "hedonist's menu" part of his quote especially takes on a very suspect subtext. It seems to me both of these things call into question any insight he might have had on this particular subculture and its sexual proclivities. Given this, can he be considered a reliable source? If not removed entirely, might it at least be pertinent to add some of this context to his claims so readers know he may have some bias on issues of sex and homosexuality? I.e. "According to rapist Peter Braunstein..."? 204.112.199.2 ( talk) 04:58, 15 March 2021 (UTC)
This article has recently seen unreferenced editing from a variety of IP addresses, which put it into protection. The same sorts of edits have also been coming to other music articles, and one of the edit summaries at Luther Vandross saying "Af Am 327" led me to a particular graduate class at Northwestern University, in the African American Studies program, Af Am 327. The class description doesn't say anything about Wikipedia, but it says they are working on all the articles that have recently seen a flurry of editing from IPs, for instance Afrobeats and Jungle music. It looks like this professor is asking students to edit Wikipedia. To their credit, most of the edits are referenced, unlike the ones that were reverted here. Binksternet ( talk) 02:23, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Annnaaa29.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 19:34, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
I'd like to contest the idea that Disco is a genre of Latin music. Whenever I hear disco music, I never hear anything that sounds Latin. 47.36.25.163 ( talk) 21:40, 9 February 2022 (UTC)