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She is listed by the Dissapeared group, so why not here? Fergananim ( talk) 16:04, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
I've added Patrick Duffy (murder victim) to the See Also section, given the circumstances of his death and dissapearance. There may be more like him to add in this section. Fergananim ( talk) 10:42, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
Eco-climber ( talk) 14:29, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
Why don't we list these two as they are listed here:
2018-07-19 Am I being dumb or are you all missing something. These 2 unfortunate people are still disappeared ( almost certainly dead ) and we have not included them in the list, despite a UK Parliament reference, CAIN reference and Amnesty reference. Yes they have been excluded from some organisations list(s) but they are included in others. And confusingly get added or deleted from other lists without a publicly specified reason. I propose that we change the name of the Main List to "The Disappeared" and then add these 2 people to a the list "Disappearances since 1999", but change the name to "other Disappearances"
Eco-climber ( talk) 18:23, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
-- Eco-climber ( talk) 13:50, 1 October 2014 (UTC) Why don't we list Sean as he is listed here:
Draft entry could be:- |Sean Murphy|| ||25||1986||||Republicans|| [1]
References
This unfortunate person is still disappeared ( almost certainly dead ) and we have not included them in the list, despite UK Guardian + CAIN reference and Amnesty reference. Yes they have been excluded from some organisations list(s) but they are included in others. And confusingly get added or deleted from other lists without a publicly specified reason. I propose that we change the name of the Main List to "The Disappeared" and then add these 2 people to a the list "Disappearances since 1999", but change the name to "other Disappearances" Eco-climber ( talk) 18:27, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
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Two people, Gareth O'Connor and Lisa Doran are not two of the disappeared. They should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.67.211.160 ( talk • contribs) 18:33, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
The sources that that Lisa Doran is not one of the disappeared. The funny thing about all of this is the start a of the article explicitly states the disappeared were all taken during the troubles. 194.67.193.213 ( talk) 18:26, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
Lisa Dorrian doesn't fall within the remit of the article's scope as made clear in its opening line: The Disappeared is a term which refers to people believed to have been abducted, murdered and secretly buried during the Troubles in Northern Ireland.[1]
. The Troubles are typically defined as being from 1968 to 1998. Lisa's disappearance is in a different century to the Troubles. Support her removal. Also
[1] is a 404 not found link. The only prior discussion on Lisa in this discussion is between yourself Giantsnowman and Fergananim, both ignoring the articles stated scope. On the sources used
[2] doesn't cut the grass as it only has opinions from certain calling her a disappeared, they are not academic statements.
[3] This doesn't cut it either as it is referring to the then recent talk of the Disappeared and then makes mention about the disappearance of Lisa. It does not call her one of the Disappeared that is frequently discussed. CAIN
[4] is a more trustworthy source however clearly lists her as "Uncertain if conflict-related" which means she falls out of the Troubles-related scope in that regard. Lisa doesn't belong in this article as it is just like paramilitaries killed by other paramilitaries after the Troubles don't belong on a list of Troubles era murders.
Mabuska
(talk)
21:27, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
There is no consensus either for them to remain especially as one is clearly outside of the articles scope and remit which gives the remove argument far more credence than the keep. Mabuska (talk) 20:47, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
Still no answers to the points I raised. Mabuska (talk) 11:21, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
A request for further input has been made at the Ireland WikiProject. To re-iterate the key points on why Lisa Dorrian does not belong in the article:
The Disappeared is a term which refers to people believed to have been abducted, murdered and secretly buried during the Troubles in Northern Ireland.[1]Lisa disappeared in a different century and outside the Troubles.
Thus Lisa does not meet the requirements for inclusion in this article. The sources listed below are not part of this statement. Mabuska (talk) 11:41, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
<ref>
tag is missing the closing </ref>
(see the
help page).References
{{
cite web}}
: Unknown parameter |deadurl=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (
help)
But if CAIN lists the 2000s disappearances on the " Disappeared" page, then they must be considered as Troubles-related.- not exactly: the start of the page makes it clear that:
The following table contains DRAFT information on those people who were abducted and killed, mainly by the Irish Republican Army (IRA), in Northern Ireland between 1972 and 1986, and their bodies secretly buried. They are referred to as 'the Disappeared'.and later on in regards to the post-Troubles disappearances
The following tables contain other related information on disappearances where the body was recovered prior to the setting up of the ICLVR, and also information on two disappearnces in the mid-2000s.In regards to those 2 disappearances:
Recent cases of disappearance that may be paramilitary related. None of this states that they are or may be Troubles related, just possible paramilitary related. Mabuska (talk) 13:39, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
Edit made to table as she is not one of the "Disappeared" according to the official site. Disagree Snowman then rename table or find some proof for her inclusion. Mabuska (talk) 10:48, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
Disagree Snowman then rename table or find some proof for her inclusion. It's not particularly civil, either, to completely ignore what I say on the grounds that I'm not the person you wanted to reply.
Scolaire you don't have any right to demand what I or anyone should do. Just because one additional editor (you) decided to participate and agree with the highly flawed information does not mean that it must be correct and we must ignore the problem. Wikipedia as you know is not a democracy. Possible solutions have been suggested and you've ignored them. The article content is not policy-compliant. Lisa Dorrian isn't listed on the Disappeared families own website as one of the Disappeared. CAIN do not list her as one of the "Disappeared". There is a huge difference between "Disappeared" and "disappeared", and I have provided a simple solution to the problem that ensures her inclusion in the article. Obviously asking WP-Ireland for input was pointless and a proper RfC would have been a better idea, and so I will go that route. Indeed I am well within right to be WP:BOLD with my forthcoming edit to the article seeing as nothing and no-one is being removed but simply a contextual amendment to fix the problem. Mabuska (talk) 11:36, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
What is the correct age for Charlie? The rte source says age 54 [1] the Guardian says 55 [2] but the article says 57.
References
Mobile mundo ( talk) 21:45, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
Hello All. I have been assisting with this Disappeared wiki page for several years ( 4 or 5 I think). I strongly side with Gareth O'Connor and Lisa Dorrian being included in The Disappeared page. Yes maybe in a later section called "2000s" but the troubles still carried on after 1998, in a lesser form until 2007. We should not take Republic v Loyalist sides on the date. And therefore a 2000's section is an excellent compromise. The 2 people discussed are both also listed as disappeared and this has been on many external sites. Although very confusingly some of the same sites add or delete these names without any reference as to why.
I also write about the facts on the ICLVR page are now very out of date.
[1] Independent Commission for the Location of Victims' Remains
eg, in the Victims section it lists 6 bodies as being undiscovered, when in fact only 3 bodies are remaining undiscovered as of Sept 2017. If someone has the time, can they update the facts please?
cheers
Eco-climber ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:04, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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![]() | Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Troubles, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article:
Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
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A graph should have been displayed here but
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She is listed by the Dissapeared group, so why not here? Fergananim ( talk) 16:04, 23 April 2014 (UTC)
I've added Patrick Duffy (murder victim) to the See Also section, given the circumstances of his death and dissapearance. There may be more like him to add in this section. Fergananim ( talk) 10:42, 29 April 2014 (UTC)
Eco-climber ( talk) 14:29, 1 October 2014 (UTC)
Why don't we list these two as they are listed here:
2018-07-19 Am I being dumb or are you all missing something. These 2 unfortunate people are still disappeared ( almost certainly dead ) and we have not included them in the list, despite a UK Parliament reference, CAIN reference and Amnesty reference. Yes they have been excluded from some organisations list(s) but they are included in others. And confusingly get added or deleted from other lists without a publicly specified reason. I propose that we change the name of the Main List to "The Disappeared" and then add these 2 people to a the list "Disappearances since 1999", but change the name to "other Disappearances"
Eco-climber ( talk) 18:23, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
-- Eco-climber ( talk) 13:50, 1 October 2014 (UTC) Why don't we list Sean as he is listed here:
Draft entry could be:- |Sean Murphy|| ||25||1986||||Republicans|| [1]
References
This unfortunate person is still disappeared ( almost certainly dead ) and we have not included them in the list, despite UK Guardian + CAIN reference and Amnesty reference. Yes they have been excluded from some organisations list(s) but they are included in others. And confusingly get added or deleted from other lists without a publicly specified reason. I propose that we change the name of the Main List to "The Disappeared" and then add these 2 people to a the list "Disappearances since 1999", but change the name to "other Disappearances" Eco-climber ( talk) 18:27, 19 July 2018 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Disappeared (Northern Ireland). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 11:18, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
Two people, Gareth O'Connor and Lisa Doran are not two of the disappeared. They should be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.67.211.160 ( talk • contribs) 18:33, 24 May 2018 (UTC)
The sources that that Lisa Doran is not one of the disappeared. The funny thing about all of this is the start a of the article explicitly states the disappeared were all taken during the troubles. 194.67.193.213 ( talk) 18:26, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
Lisa Dorrian doesn't fall within the remit of the article's scope as made clear in its opening line: The Disappeared is a term which refers to people believed to have been abducted, murdered and secretly buried during the Troubles in Northern Ireland.[1]
. The Troubles are typically defined as being from 1968 to 1998. Lisa's disappearance is in a different century to the Troubles. Support her removal. Also
[1] is a 404 not found link. The only prior discussion on Lisa in this discussion is between yourself Giantsnowman and Fergananim, both ignoring the articles stated scope. On the sources used
[2] doesn't cut the grass as it only has opinions from certain calling her a disappeared, they are not academic statements.
[3] This doesn't cut it either as it is referring to the then recent talk of the Disappeared and then makes mention about the disappearance of Lisa. It does not call her one of the Disappeared that is frequently discussed. CAIN
[4] is a more trustworthy source however clearly lists her as "Uncertain if conflict-related" which means she falls out of the Troubles-related scope in that regard. Lisa doesn't belong in this article as it is just like paramilitaries killed by other paramilitaries after the Troubles don't belong on a list of Troubles era murders.
Mabuska
(talk)
21:27, 28 May 2018 (UTC)
There is no consensus either for them to remain especially as one is clearly outside of the articles scope and remit which gives the remove argument far more credence than the keep. Mabuska (talk) 20:47, 29 May 2018 (UTC)
Still no answers to the points I raised. Mabuska (talk) 11:21, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
A request for further input has been made at the Ireland WikiProject. To re-iterate the key points on why Lisa Dorrian does not belong in the article:
The Disappeared is a term which refers to people believed to have been abducted, murdered and secretly buried during the Troubles in Northern Ireland.[1]Lisa disappeared in a different century and outside the Troubles.
Thus Lisa does not meet the requirements for inclusion in this article. The sources listed below are not part of this statement. Mabuska (talk) 11:41, 31 May 2018 (UTC)
<ref>
tag is missing the closing </ref>
(see the
help page).References
{{
cite web}}
: Unknown parameter |deadurl=
ignored (|url-status=
suggested) (
help)
But if CAIN lists the 2000s disappearances on the " Disappeared" page, then they must be considered as Troubles-related.- not exactly: the start of the page makes it clear that:
The following table contains DRAFT information on those people who were abducted and killed, mainly by the Irish Republican Army (IRA), in Northern Ireland between 1972 and 1986, and their bodies secretly buried. They are referred to as 'the Disappeared'.and later on in regards to the post-Troubles disappearances
The following tables contain other related information on disappearances where the body was recovered prior to the setting up of the ICLVR, and also information on two disappearnces in the mid-2000s.In regards to those 2 disappearances:
Recent cases of disappearance that may be paramilitary related. None of this states that they are or may be Troubles related, just possible paramilitary related. Mabuska (talk) 13:39, 8 June 2018 (UTC)
Edit made to table as she is not one of the "Disappeared" according to the official site. Disagree Snowman then rename table or find some proof for her inclusion. Mabuska (talk) 10:48, 12 June 2018 (UTC)
Disagree Snowman then rename table or find some proof for her inclusion. It's not particularly civil, either, to completely ignore what I say on the grounds that I'm not the person you wanted to reply.
Scolaire you don't have any right to demand what I or anyone should do. Just because one additional editor (you) decided to participate and agree with the highly flawed information does not mean that it must be correct and we must ignore the problem. Wikipedia as you know is not a democracy. Possible solutions have been suggested and you've ignored them. The article content is not policy-compliant. Lisa Dorrian isn't listed on the Disappeared families own website as one of the Disappeared. CAIN do not list her as one of the "Disappeared". There is a huge difference between "Disappeared" and "disappeared", and I have provided a simple solution to the problem that ensures her inclusion in the article. Obviously asking WP-Ireland for input was pointless and a proper RfC would have been a better idea, and so I will go that route. Indeed I am well within right to be WP:BOLD with my forthcoming edit to the article seeing as nothing and no-one is being removed but simply a contextual amendment to fix the problem. Mabuska (talk) 11:36, 21 June 2018 (UTC)
What is the correct age for Charlie? The rte source says age 54 [1] the Guardian says 55 [2] but the article says 57.
References
Mobile mundo ( talk) 21:45, 15 June 2018 (UTC)
Hello All. I have been assisting with this Disappeared wiki page for several years ( 4 or 5 I think). I strongly side with Gareth O'Connor and Lisa Dorrian being included in The Disappeared page. Yes maybe in a later section called "2000s" but the troubles still carried on after 1998, in a lesser form until 2007. We should not take Republic v Loyalist sides on the date. And therefore a 2000's section is an excellent compromise. The 2 people discussed are both also listed as disappeared and this has been on many external sites. Although very confusingly some of the same sites add or delete these names without any reference as to why.
I also write about the facts on the ICLVR page are now very out of date.
[1] Independent Commission for the Location of Victims' Remains
eg, in the Victims section it lists 6 bodies as being undiscovered, when in fact only 3 bodies are remaining undiscovered as of Sept 2017. If someone has the time, can they update the facts please?
cheers
Eco-climber ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 18:04, 19 July 2018 (UTC)