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This isn't a major change to this page, but I've added a listing for Kyo if any are interested. I felt that he has done some rather significant things beyond just being a part of Dir en grey, and that he deserved a listing as such. I feel I covered it well, but feel free to make changes. I'm sure I probably made language mistakes here and there that others may find that I couldn't see, or prehaps n-pov mistakes even though attempted to remain unbiased.
Also, you may have a perspective on it that I was unable to put into words.
~ Saka. 12:24. 04.01.2004
I've changed the translation of the word "Dir en Grey" in this file. I've never agreed with the extremely unbased "Silver Coin" claims, and it's almost obvious that Dir en Grey means "to you in grey" since Lareine's demo is also called ~Haiiro no anata o~, which means just that. I hope I didn't break any HORRIBLE un-written rule :P ~Ikis, 20:30 06.28.2005 (Israel time. YOU calculate >>;)
I devided the band's release history with their performance history of other random history. The article was getting too cluttered to read. I also removed some unneeded information, like most of the info on saku and clever slezoid, or personal information (like abotu shinya's dogs) that wasn't very relevent to the topic. ~Saka 11:25 September 22, 2005
I'm new to this band... but I am unsure about the release dates.. how can a single (ie, THE FINAL) but released a year before the album?
Corrected some grammatical mistakes, and re-worded some sentences that didn't sound very good, in response to the cleanup feature. I think it could still use a little more work. -Kyle, 16:03 3 October, 2005.
Not sure who rewrote things so drastically since I last edited the page, but I really think it's got a quite a bit wrong with it. There seems to be some bias in the first paragraph ("profound lyrics"), and the brief history seems to have deleted the actual background of the band in favor of a more "recent events" type thing. I'm going to revert back a bit, I apologize if anyone made any significant changes.
Speaking of which, is it just me, or does the entirety of the "name paragraph" sound awkward now? -- Illness Illusion 03:49, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
See the version comparison.] I've fixed a number of grammatical and formatting mistakes throughout the text, and standardised the date formats to the more human-readable English standard (from dd.mm.yyyy, yyyy.mm.dd, and dd Month yyyy to Month dd, yyyy). I converted some inline external links to wikilinks and added a few new wikilinks. The links list was pruned to remove apparently irrelevent links; see "Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links" (official policy). Several links seem to simply be portals or otherwise unrelated websites. I didn't touch the fan links, but will return to prune that as well -- only notable groups should be included, if at all. Likewise, I'll later remove the lyrics section, since the information should be placed on Wikipedia on the appropriate album or song page. I further rewrote the Band Members section into prose form, which should be much more readable, and moved it above the Brief History section. I still see quite a few improvements that could be made, but I'll wait a bit for those. On a related note, could anyone clarify the following line from the article?
Dir en grey's international fans who speak a Latin-based language often use the abbreviations Deg and Diru when both speaking and typing for sake of brevity.
// Pathoschild 04:42, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
I removed the last paragraph of this section. I feel that defining Visual Kei at this point in the article is unnecessary and Visual Kei has it's own article for this. Also stating that Diru strayed from their Visual Kei roots is stated in the previous paragraph and is redundant. - frogfusious
I feel this version of the history section is too cluttered. Therefore, I've reverted to my previous version (from September 2005) of the page and have edited it, taking into consideration the edits that have occured between that version and the former 'current' version. Changes I've made to my old version include:
PLEASE NOTE: The Band's early histroy has NOT been abandoned, as was a complaint last time. If the page is lacking in early history, it is because is was not there to begin with. My version was simply a division of the information into two sections and included everything the version before it did with one difference: organization. However, there is a significant amount of recent information here, and I have added a bit more. At the same time - I have added information about the origin of the band and early occurance that were previously unreleased here. Hopefully, this will quite the complaints about lack of early history.
New information and corrections are welcome (Particuarly needed on Fandom and the Profile), but I feel that the page needs a distinction between what is actual history and what is just a glorified release timeline.
Hope you guys like the changes. ~Saka 5:01 January 9, 2006
Mostly added some info in fandom and other information. I think more detail could be given on the nuance in Deg's shift from Vis Kei / Japanese to Rock / Western influences. For instance, consider how six Ugly began the shift to the "Vulgar era" (a term already on page). While Western / Rock influenced, it just seemed there is some more detail there; the punk vs. metal is a good start I think. Also, I wanted to mention how many elements of six Ugly were already part of Deg's history - for example, Byo shin epitomizes in some ways the sound of this album, and yet it is simply reworked from their indies release! I don't think I actually added that in yet...
Also, when adding things, i noticed it seems there is overlap between Release summary and fandom sections. Not quite sure how this should be resolved. Maybe some of my edits should be closer to release info...
I guess to summarize, my main point is that there are some good details here that, as Saka mentions are not history per se, but perhaps *should* be included as sort of an analysis or 'glorification' of their releases.
Anyways check it out the edits and make 'em better...!
just made one minor grammer change
changed
"The release was such a departure that the band to consider releasing it under a new name"
to
"The release was such a departure that the band considered releasing it under a new name"
looked like the author changed how they wanted to refer to the event half way through perhaps intending
"The release was such a departure that it caused the band to consider releasing it under a new name"
well this is proably to verbose so feel free to chop it out of the discussion. NatDinoMus 3rd Feb 06
I’ve tried to rework the entire article, it looked like an ugly, cluttered mess, information about each members belongs in their own article, as does in-depth looks and fan receptions of each release. - Deathrocker 20:10, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm pretty shocked how a previously rather decent article has been dumbed down and superficialised. Several bits of useful information are gone (the whole style/sellout controversy for example) instead there is an air now of bias and - excuse my frankness - bad English. And really, is a picture that portraits the group in it's long-gone Visual Kei looks appropriate for the Wikipedia? Dir en grey are touring the US right now and will do more concerts in Europe later this year. That means that quite a few people might want to look them up here and they will want a well written and down to earth band history and probably one or two paragraphs about the stylistic development over the years.
I'll try see to that myself depending on how much time I'll be able to spare. - Cyrus XIII, March 18th, 2006
I've been watching this page for a bit, and I must agree with Cyrus. Things have been dumbed down, and I wish someone with the proper knowledge could expand this page from it's current narrowness about touring into a well bodied article. There are other aspects about this group that could be documented. - TheS0S 19:29, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm about to give up on this one. Bits I added in the 1st paragraph, concerning the band's musical style have already been reduced to "a form of Hard rock" which is about as expressive as "this band plays music". So sad the people responsible lack the social competence to actually use this discussion page as a means to come up with something that would meet Wikipedia's quality standards instead of promoting their own opinion or wishful thinking on the topic at hand (as I mentioned before, the fanbase of this group is somewhat devided and it would be desirable if certain more narrow minded individuals stood as far away from the edit button as possible).
If anyone would like to team up with me to give this article a complete and thorough makeover, feel free to contact me here or on ICQ (74062151) - Cyrus XIII, April 20th, 2006
I suggest that you A) assume good faith. B) Study the articles of Gothic rock, Industrial and Pop to find out what these genres actually are musically, before cluttering the article listing 5 or more genres that the band have no connection to sound wise. You may learn something. - Deathrocker 20:52, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
My iteration of the paragraph didn't even contain two of the three genres you just linked, a look at the article's history would have told you that. Under such circumstances you might understand that the ability to assume good faith is a tiny bit strained on my end. - Cyrus XIII, April 21th, 2006
I'm sorry if this made sense to every one but why is the discography on a seperate page? im pretty sure that isnt standard wikipedia practice. Maybe the pages should be merged ? user:coda_littleking
It is certainly some sort of standard for bands with vast discographies (think KISS), but this is not really the case yet with the group at hand here. I'd also suggest to do something about this extensive tour title list. It seems so profoundly irrelevant. - Cyrus XIII, April 21th, 2006
Quite alot of bands have it on Wikipedia, including, David Bowie, Marilyn Manson.. and others, Dir en Grey have released quite alot of singles, which is included on the discography page. - Deathrocker 10:35, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
I've changed the image for a better one, and I think it's more recent. You can see the members more clearly than in the old one. Hope you don't get angry :)
~ FAZZ @ 15 May 2006
Today, I was seeking information on Die, the guitarist for this band. When I arrived at this often referenced page, I found it was completely empty. I've heard that this article has been dumbed down, and I agree that some important facts and some good writing are missing. I have restored the article, and request that anybody who wants a new article write one themselves. In the mean time, let's leave up this current revision. It is, after all, better to have a low-standard article than to not have one at all. - notjake13 5:40, 16 May 2006 (EST)
this article really reads like a fan page... not an informative article. i'm going to go through and take out some of the POV stuff and clean up some spelling, grammar, etc. let me know if you disagree with anything i alter. Tmkain 01:18, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
I agree with TheSOS and notjake13. The article now has a respective marking which will hopefully draw enough attention to the issue. A complete rewrite is needed, to get rid of a few cases of personal bias and utter fanboyism. Plus there are no citations for most of what is in it (which makes some aspects, especially the band's early history rather disputable). - Cyrus XIII, May 23rd, 2006
notjake13 was refering to the article been blanked by an anon [1] nobody bothered to revert the vandalism. - Deathrocker 07:29, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Could you stop these counter-productive interferences? By now it looks like you have a personal agenda to keep this article in a state several other people already agreed on being low quality (regardless of any sort of vandalism that might have occured in the meantime). So you can either start co-operating or back off and let people make some genuine improvements. Like adding a tag to draw broader attention to some evident shortcomings. - Cyrus XIII, May 23rd, 2006
Could you please stop whinging about the article and actually put forth something to it?.. you've made absolutely no effort to improve the article at all or even state which parts you feel need improving & why..
All I've seen you do is whinge on here, and make one edit to the actual article, which was ridiculous, claiming the band played "Goth rock/Nu-metal/Industrial/Pop/Shock rock".. when you seemingly have no prior knowledge of those genres. - Deathrocker 15:05, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
I started out cleaning things up a bit (redundant/hardly relevant information, bias/unnecessary grandeur, bad English) and ended up rephrasing pretty much the entire article. I guess it -is- a lot more readable and up to Wikipedia standards now though it could still use more meat between all the releases and touring. But please, it should still be more noteworthy stuff than lengthy tour names and the availability of t-shirts. An extra section about the ongoing controversy among fans regarding Dir en grey's stylistic and visual changes would be nice, the discography page could use pictures and there really has to be a way to make the tour list look less ugly. That's my todo list for the not so distant future - or anyone who reads this and likes the idea. :) - Cyrus XIII, May 26th, 2006
Congratulations to whomever rewrote this article! The aricle is much cleaner, more focused, and less biased. I am now confident in directing people to this page fo further informatoin on Dir en grey. - notjake13 13:06, 1 June 2006 (JST)
Thx notjake13, good to get some positive feedback. I outlined a few more things that would improve this and its related articles here and while we're at it, there are individual articles for all of Dir en grey's singles (!) which should just be deleted/merged with the discography. - Cyrus XIII, June 1st, 2006
Good job Cyrus, the article looks a lot better now. About the singles, I think they need more information, eg: "This single caused fans to blah blah" or "this has been the most succesful single to date... blah blah" etc. Fazz010s 04:42, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Just gave the tour list a makeover (unintentionally marked as a minor edit - my bad), again, the result should be less cluttered/more readable. By the way, I would really like to know why this Deathmask thing does not need the {{ Fact}} tag. - Cyrus XIII, June 2nd, 2006
...mainly to reduce redundancy created by recent changes. A few words to fellow contributers: Your input is appreciated, but please, when you add something to the article, read the entire article beforehand and employ common sense about what ot add and what not.
Also, I cleaned up the lineup section, opting for the singer's birth name as mentioned in his own article.
- Cyrus XIII, June 10th, 2006
I was reading the Dir en grey article, and it seems overly biased, as written by an obsessed fan. - 66.153.232.185, July 30th, 2006
Feel free to improve it. I must admit some curiosity though, what content actually qualifies to be "overly biased" and "obsessed" after the article's recent makeovers. I took the liberty (hopefully to no one's offense) to chronologically order this discussion page. - Cyrus XIII, August 9th, 2006
...of the Band members in the lineup section. Some kids seem to insist that here or more generally in articles concerning Japanese bands the western naming scheme for people (first name followed by family name) does not apply, even though it is common for most western literature about anything/anyone Japanese including the English Wikipedia itself. Some examples: Junichiro Koizumi, Shinji Ikari, Nobuo Uematsu
In the past, people often complained about this article reading like a fan site, complete with bias and a touch of elitism. The Japanese naming scheme (family name followed by first name), a lot of Kanji and the full capitalization of whatever other name or title that might have stumbled into the article (like the supposed previous bandname that has lacked a citation for months by now) does not help. Quite the opposite, actually. - Cyrus XIII, August 16th, 2006
I hope I'm not out of line in saying this but I really wish people would stop changing the genre to "Japanese rock", "J-rock" and "Visual Kei". Rock is rock no matter where it comes from so I don't believe "Japanese rock" certifies as a true genre of it's own, same goes for J-rock, which I'm pretty sure is a fan-created term anyway and "visual Kei" is a style of dressing which many bands of many different genres take on, it does not count as a genre of music. ~SpatulaGeekGirl
I agree with you in so far that the term Japanese rock (and its abbrevation J-Rock) does not say much about the music apart from
There isn't really anything more defining about the term and same goes for Visual Kei, which as you said is about the look of the band. (I'd love to see people contesting these assesments by explaining the miriads of smilarities between Luna Sea's "Rosier" and Malice Mizer's "Hakai No Hate" to me.)
But since Japanese rock just happens to apply to what Dir en grey are doing (though their Visual Kei days are indeed pretty much over), we might as well stick with it. I've already been going at lengths all over Wikipedia to replace J-Rock with its spelled out counterpart, in order to present readers with a more sober/scientific/encyclopedic genre handle, that is less coined by a given fanbase. I'd welcome any help I can get with that. - Cyrus XIII, 10:02, September 5th 2006 (CET)
Let's try not to put anything even remotely connected with this band into the link section, shall we?
Festivals they happen to play at should not be there as well as sites in Japanese that when compared to sites already linked feature no additional (Free-Will Japan) or redundant or outdated information (SunKrad). Also I see no harm in directly linking to the related artist's section on the external site, since this is what someone coming from this article will most likely be browsing to anyway. Also re-ordered was the labels section in the info box, which now lists the two companies primarily credited on Deg releases first, with secondary distributers listed in alphabetic order after that.
- Cyrus XIII, 11:41, September 6th 2006 (CET)
Recently, the user CLEVER SLEAZOID made a page for the bootlegged audio rip of TOUR06 INWARD SCREAM at the Budokan last August.
Does any of you think that should be added to the Discography?
-AKnot
I Wouldn't say so. Apart from the relatively short period of time between now and the next album and/or official live release, this bootleg will hold very little significance, if any at all. Plus it has never been released through any traditional channels, the audio quality is so bad, it is hard to even recognize previously released songs and the titles for new songs given in the article's track list are likely to be made up by the bootlegger or other fans along the way. - Cyrus XIII, 8:08, September 9th 2006 (CET)
I'd like to propose the removal of the Touring section for the following reasons:
Please express your opinion in the Survey subsection and vote with either delete or keep.
Regards
- Cyrus XIII, 20:02, September 10th 2006 (CET)
Even though I started the touring section long ago, I don't think it's really needed within the page since it's in the official site; people can just go to the official site and look at the timeline section there. So in conclusion, delete.
-AKnot 9/11/06 10:55AM US PST
Even though participation has been low, the proposal has been pending for five days and the vote is unanimous. Information not included in the official site's timeline has already been added to the articles about the individual live DVDs, the last revision of this page containing the Touring section may be found here here. - Cyrus XIII, 21:41, September 15th 2006 (CET)
To everyone (including IP contributors), Dir en grey has been changing into different genres within their career; so finding their specific genre is difficult. But it's known they are part of Japanese rock. So please don't add genres (including former ones) like what happened to the recent edits by 207.106.123.38. It only causes some confusion.
There was another recent edit in which someone added a genre not familer to Dir en grey. Please take that into consideration... If you still didn't catch that, don't add genres unknown to Dir en grey.
AKnot 00:43, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Does Dir en Grey qualify as Death Metal. I'm not exactly sure what Death Metal is (even after a wiki description) so only someone who listens to it is qualifies to say "sure is" or "not quite." Though from what I've been seeing of their new videos on YouTube my guess is going towards "sure is." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.19.236.220 ( talk)
When the Dir en grey wiki came about til now, people have been adding fan links (not including the community and lyric site(s)). Does anybody think this wiki should have fan links at all?
AKnot 00:03, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
P.S. I removed the Keloid Milk fan link til further responses and such.
After recently looking at Dir en grey's new look on their official web site, does anybody think the wiki should have that current look as their group pic? Thank you... AKnot 00:10, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
I have removed all references to the supposed actual names of the band members for now. There should be no attempts to put them back in unless somebody can come up with decent sources. Please keep in mind that Wikipedia is not a rumor mill and that we are dealing with living people here, who certainly would not like to see misinformation about their person here. - Cyrus XIII 08:31, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
I uploaded their tour background logo. [2]
Would it be fine if the logo was in the wiki (i.e. on top of group pic)?
AKnot 01:23, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
The banner that noted that this section should be cleaned up has been removed I guess until I further clarify what the definition of "messy" is. Particularly what needs fixing is the syntax and the grammar of the article. For example, I will take a typical sentence style that is scattered all around the article. "This caught the attention of Yoshiki Hayashi of X Japan fame, who produced and arranged the singles of their subsequent album, Gauze, released in 1999." Just minor things like that, I feel it needs to be more formal and not so "stylized". Dec 11 2006 12:34 xcuref1endx (UTC)
What about genre adding in albums and singles?
Thoughts?
AKnot 01:43, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
I gave the section a small rewrite, limiting the number of genres mentioned, not going too much into detail (song examples) and trying to have it come a bit more directly from the music found on those records, instead of repeating stuff thrown around at web based discussions on this matter. Hope this works for the most people. Sorry about those half-a-dozen-something minor edits following the big one, I could certainly use more sleep these days.
In other news: I'm trying to come up with good tracks to take samples from, in order to illustrate the band's work with actual audio. I would say three would be well in the limits of fair use, one from Gauze, one from Kisou and one from Withering to Death. Suggestions? - Cyrus XIII 07:30, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Cage (Gauze), Filth (Kisou), The Final or (Withering to death.). I believe those are good suggestions. If it was possible to have more, I would also suggest Macabre (Macabre), umbrella (six Ugly), Obscure (Vulgar), and Grief (The Marrow of A Bone). AKnot 02:23, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the first sentences that was not important information, then we need some citations, for example that they were the first indie and to enter at the top 10 of the Oricon, i guess that this isn't true so X Japan entered 10 years before as you already know. Then we need also some citations for the Kyo injuries, and then i have deleted the paragraph from the line-up section, most of the bands use nickname and not their first name: Pata ( Tomoaki Ishizuka) for example, or Klaha, Közi, etc. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.184.87.104 ( talk) 18:32, 2 January 2007 (UTC).
why isnt it on the videography? Quatreryukami 19:49, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Since in Wikipedia, the names of bands are kept with their respective capitalizations, I was wondering if Dir en grey should be moved to DIERENGREY. If you notice on the latest album, the name is written this way consistently on both the cover and within the booklet. I won't move until sufficient responses have been made, but wouldn't this be considered an official name change? -- Jake 22:10, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
More recently, some articles have been created to illustrate the band's individual tours. While precedents for such pages exist on Wikipedia, they usually document live efforts by bands who are arguably far more notable than Dir en grey, with internationally successful careers spanning not just barely one but several decades (like Metallica, The Rolling Stones and U2). Apart from information already covered by related articles (like this one or the those dealing with the band's extensive videography) and content copied from the official website's timeline, these articles largely rely on unsourced material. On a lesser note, some also appear to require cleanup with Wikipedia's style guidelines in mind (i.e. WP:ALBUMS).
The links to these articles from this one have been removed for the time being, until aforementioned notability, verifiability and potential copyright issues have been resolved. If someone would like to make improvements, the respective meta article can be found here: List of Dir en grey concert tours - Cyrus XIII 02:29, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
After reading the article in question, I agree that all problems stated exist. I would also like to say that, being most of the concerts listed have little or no data associated with them, I would even go so far as to say delete it. There's just not enough content to be considered encyclopic. Maybe I'm going too far, but that's what I think. Quatreryukami 17:42, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm not really into editing, but just wanted to say that Tour 2011 Paradox of Retaliation hasn't been noticed anywhere (according to the official website). Cheers. 37.209.147.21 ( talk) 04:22, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
Err, this sentence doesn't seem to make much sense:
Ambrosia- 04:33, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
I think it is necessary to have a picture from Dir en grey's "Visual Kei" period, as that is part of their history. For the American audience, Visual Kei is an unknown thing, and while there is a small page on it, it is better represented by an image. Does anybody have suggested images or think it to be unnecessary?
Also, so as to not clog the talk page, I'll add here that I changed the word "appearances" in the festival notation in the final paragraph, as "appearing" somewhere is different than "performing" somewhere. Example being, Ozzy Osborne appears at ever Ozzfest summer festival, but does not perform at every show.-- Jake 11:35, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Should La:Sadie's or D+L be included in the "Associated Acts" section of the infobox?-- Jacob 19:47, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
I changed the "Lineup" section. Changed "the artists are credited with their first names" to GIVEN names, because in Japanese, the family name comes first. Hope nobody minds.
The date of their exact formation isn't available on Wikipedia, however, it is generally accepted among fasn as February 2, 1997. I was browsing through the Yarouze magazine, which features an entire detailed history and profile of the band, and the history section includes February 2nd as a formation date. This source is in Japanese, but is as official as any other publication. Scans can be provided.-- Jacob 15:47, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
I found this information on the Japanese Wikipedia. I don't know if this is common knowledge or not, nor if this has been discussed before.
Dir en greyの意は、「Dir」はドイツ語で「銀貨」、「en」はフランス語で「~の」、「grey」は英語で「灰色」を合わせ、“灰色の銀貨”という意味であるとされている。(但し、実際にはドイツ語に「Dir」という単語は存在しない)
"According to Dir en grey, 'Dir' is German for 'silver coin,' 'en' is French for 'of,' and grey is English for 'grey.' Together, it means 'a silver coin of grey.' (However, there is no such word as 'Dir' in the German language)"
Is this information indeed correct, and is it relevant to the article? The only problem I see with it is that it's unscourced. This seems to be a recurring problem on Japanese Wikipedia.
(And yes, I know 灰色の銀貨 would be less literally, "a grey silver coin." I was just translating it with "en=of" in mind (is that accurate? I don't know a lick of French))
Chibi Gohan 10:20, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
Odd. So Dir is actually a word, but there isn't any connection to "silver coin." I suppose the "there is no such word as dir in the German language" comment was due to the Japanese editors lacking an understanding of German.
I would try to edit that out of the Japanese article, but I don't know quite enough Japanese to explain to the Japanese editors what the problem is (and, I don't really care that much :P).
Anyway, thank you for your input!
Chibi Gohan 13:20, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
I assumed their name was a japanisation of the everyouthful Oscar Wilde character [Dorian Gray|Dorian Gray] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.167.243.101 ( talk) 00:36, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
The band has been asked about the meaning of their name before, and they've always told interviewers that it doesn't actually mean anything. They purposely chose a name that doesn't have any real meaning behind it. I think the name of the Wiki article should be changed to "Dir en grey" without the capitalizations of the E and G. That's how it is written on their CDs, merchandise, etc. It has also been written as "DIR EN GREY", but never "Dir En Grey". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.123.50.12 ( talk) 21:57, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
Their name should ONLY be typeset as → Dir en grey ← with only the first D in capitals. This band is Japanese and they don't go by "Standard English Text Formatting", and shouldn't be threathed as an English/American band. Their name is a play on words and typset as Dir en grey and not Dir En Grey/Dir en Grey. ALL their official CD/DVD-releases has their name typeset as Dir en grey, and also all their official promotion and merchandise products, from the very beginning in 1997, same goes with their official logotype (Even in America) and official homepage. I wonder if you people who moderate this site even listen to this band? All other Wikipedia sites in other languages has them typeset as Dir en grey, why shouldn't the English/American profile do the same? Shouldn't Wikipedia have only legit information about stuff? This is not legit typsetting as it is now, and I'll be disappointed on Wikipedia if this is won't be changed into the correct typset Dir en grey. Dir en grey is correct, change it now. Thank you very much.
Killinstinct ( talk) 21:37, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
I'd just like to pitch in my two cents and say I would approve of and support Killinstinct's proposed name change and changing of typesetting as well, since, he's right, this isn't an American or British band, it's a Japanese band, and it was Dir en grey's intent to have their name typeset as "Dir en grey" and more recently "DIR EN GREY" instead of "Dir en Grey" or "Dir En Grey". It isn't Wikipedia's right to say how the band's name is typeset, it's theirs. In addition, capitalizing it with Standard English Text Formatting is incorrect and can mislead new fans of the band, which defeats the purpose of Wikipedia, which is to provide correct information. (bring on the flames) Arashi nightmare ( talk) 03:23, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
Recently, the MySpace was hacked by an anonymous person and this was proven with a bulletin. It will (or already) be removed until further notice. NaotoATG 02:00, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
The arrests of Free Will officials has everything to do with Dir en grey, the money was used defrauded using Dir en grey (and other bands) as an excuse, and was used to fund costs for bands signed to the label. Including tours, music videos, producing their records, and so on. 219.90.229.216 06:35, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
A list of Japanese musicians with success outside Asia. There are many more, but this list is big enough, and features musicians from many genres.
Stop writing that Dir en grey is one of the few, or notable Japanese musicians to have international success.
Akiko Yano, Yellow Magic Orchestra, Toshiko Akiyoshi, Pizzicato Five, Murahachibu, Tatsuro Yamashita, Kazumi Watanabe, Joji Hirota, Vow Wow, Sadistic Mika Band, Char, Boredoms, Hiroshi Fujiwara, Mute Beat, Toshinobu Kubota, Tokyo Ska Paradaise Orchestra, Hi-Standard, Eikichi Yazawa, Seiji Ozawa, Akira Jimbo, Denki Groove, Thee Michelle Gun Elephant, Kako Takashi, The Stalin, Lisa Ono, The Street Sliders, Buffalo Daughter, United Future Organization, Anzen Chitai, Cornelius, Loudness, Kyu Sakamoto, Dj Krush, Godiego, Fishmans, Zeebra, Keiko Matsui. 122.49.157.149 10:55, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
I suggest you research some of those musicians, because what you wrote is nonsense! The only thing Dir en grey has achieved, is a few non-domestic shows, and a few non-domestic album releases. They are not internationally influential like many other Japanese musicians. Internationally successful artists are not uncommon, and Japan has its fair share of world famous musicians. Yoji Biomehanika has achieved more international success than Dir en grey, why isn't he a "notable" Japanese musician? 122.49.157.149 16:02, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
Cyrus XIII said "surely you can present sufficient sources for your allegations" and you said "definition on world wide success varies"
I provided a small list of Japanese musicians with international success (as previously stated, there are many more) most of their biographies will detail their success.
Many of them are included in HMV's list of the top 100 Japanese musicians. http://www.hmv.co.jp/news/newsDetail.asp?newsnum=311040091
Please explain, why being internationally respected, pioneering, influential, and so on, is only a niche success?
Now explain, why Dir en grey has "notable" success, and is "among" the Japanese musicians with notable success.
Since their record label stole money to fund European and US operations, the article should be updated to include that information. 122.49.157.149 17:09, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
{{ editprotected}}
Request this information, and source be added to the article.
On September 14 2007, the president of their record label was arrested for defrauding an advertising agency in 2001 of almost US$3 million, by making it look like the agency had recieved orders to produce music videos for bands signed to the label.
Source: http://www.japantoday.com/jp/news/418315
The source evidently mentions Dir en grey, and comes from one of Japan biggest news companies. 122.49.149.115 07:17, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
This information is relevant to the article, and has a reliable source. It is kept sort and to the point. 219.90.180.76 14:16, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Kaoru and Shinya don't have pictures but the other three members do. I don't have any but maybe someone should put one up...
Also other artists have a 'Video' section in their singles, saying what the videos show... does anyone else think they would be a good idea? Im-All-Ears 13:14, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
This article needs cleaning up, to meet the Wikipedia guidelines and standards.
The sections; "2007: The Marrow of a Bone" and "Style and subject matter" need attention.
A list of sentences that need removal, or rewording; in order of appearance.
This is an encyclopedia, and nothing else. —The preceding comment signed as by 122.49.135.245 ( talk • contribs) was actually added by Jun kaneko ( talk • contribs) - 00:16, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
I have no idea of what you wrote Cyrus XIII, but I'm taking it as an insult, and assuming bad faith on your part. According to the Wikipedia guidelines; this is not "crap" and needs to be corrected. Edit: Please read the following policy Wikipedia:Civility. This is a friendly warning, as you may of been unaware of this. — Preceding comment signed as by 122.49.135.245 ( talk • contribs) actually added by Jun kaneko ( talk • contribs) 02:42, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Cyrus XIII, please read the following policy, WP:ICA. I do not appreciate your behaviour. — Preceding comment signed as by 122.49.135.245 ( talk • contribs) actually added by Jun kaneko ( talk • contribs) 03:04, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
I addressed some minor problems myself, but a couple of issues still remain.
'Unencyclopedic:' As of 2007, they have released six full-length records.
Unencyclopedic and misinterpreted citations: are among the Japanese musicians who have enjoyed notable success in Europe and North America.
'Original research:' While the group's lineup has remained consistent since its inception, numerous stylistic changes have made its music's genre difficult to determine (though it is generally considered to be a form of rock music).
Original research, which had no link to a reference: According to guitarist Kaoru, the name "Dir en grey" was chosen because it "sounded right," and is comprised of words from several languages, so that people would not be able to attach a specific meaning to it other than that the band's name itself.
Reworded: One of the shows in support for the album...
Original research: Becoming more involved with the international music scene
Removed the statement: internet file-sharing only.
Removed irrelevance: along with bands such as Megadeth, Slayer and Children of Bodom.
The section "2007: The Marrow of a Bone" needs attention, because it is becoming a section devoted to news release. And the section "Style and subject matter" needs much attention, as it contains too much original research, someone with more knowledge on the subject please reword it, or find references to add to it. Saguy1982 21:19, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
The reference mentions nothing of the sort. Saguy1982 22:54, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
This is an article about the band Dir en grey, it is not about who performed at the particular performance. It has no relevance to this article. Saguy1982 22:54, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
The reference linked to that statement was not present. It was a date, and a link to a Fuse TV Wiki article. Saguy1982 22:54, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
The other information in the lead paragraph was written in the first reference, which was incorrectly placed. It has been restored. Saguy1982 22:54, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
I made an edit, and mentioned in the summary that there are notes on the talk page. There is nothing wrong with that Parsifal.
My edits have some merit, and some were wrong (and have been corrected) mostly they are minor insignificant details, so its nothing to get upset about, when the main goal is to improve the article.
The main problems left, are the "2007" section is becoming a news release, and needs attention by someone with more knowledge on the subject. And the "Style and subject matter" which contains too much original research, and either needs reworking, or references. Update: I also thank you Parsifal, for reworking the mistakes, but leaving edits which had merit. Saguy1982 22:59, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Parsifal already pointed out several problems with the recent changes, I'd like to add a few thoughts:
The question whether the group's international success should be mentioned in the lead, in the context of their nationality has already come up only recently, resulting in an edit war and temporary article protection, but also a consensus to be keep it. Back then, editor Notjake13 ( talk · contribs) compared Dir en grey with Rammstein, as neither German nor Japanese musical acts who have archived international mainstream success are exactly a dime a dozen. The sources the respective line in the lead was presented with specifically pointed out this novelity. [8] [9]
On a side note, for the sake of context, the IP based editor who felt so strongly about the alleged inappropriateness of the line in question, identified himself as Jun kaneko ( talk · contribs) in the aftermath of the earlier dispute/edit war/article lock, a person Saguy1982 now denies to be. [10] [11]
Regarding the Fuse TV source: If we were to expect all references used on Wikipedia to be readily available on the web, citing non-digital media, such as books would become quite impossible. For what it counts, the respective interview is easy enough to find on YouTube and while we do not accept this venue itself as a reliable source (for the obvious reason, that it is user-edited), citing the Fuse TV feature directly is entirely appropriate.
That all being said, I have yet to see a compelling rationale for any of the changes made since the article's October 31 revision. - Cyrus XIII 00:09, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
That might be your opinion Cyrus XIII, but that doesn't necessarily mean its true. In regards to the lead paragraph statement, and Fuse TV. I don't see any "novelty" about the band being Japanese. The same applies to German musicians. In fact, two of my favorite bands are German and Japanese. They are Enigma and the Flower Traveling Band. According to Amazon UK, the Flower Traveling Band remains quite popular. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Anywhere-Flower-Travellin-Band/dp/B000MQ50DY/ref=pd_sbs_b_shvl_img_3/203-4420607-7101513 I can think of many other German and Japanese bands with success outside their markets, but that is not the point. It is unencyclopedic, and this is an encyclopedia. And I don't agree that a reference that everyone can't verify should be added, but it appears Parsifal has an interview source for that information, so it no longer matters. Thanks Saguy1982 08:12, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
There is nothing really wrong with the article, apart from those two small sections that I hope someone will fix. This is becoming a long and tiresome matter, over such a simple thing. And I don't really see a need for my input any further. Please try to keep this article encyclopedic. Good luck Saguy1982 22:47, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't think we need a separated section for "International recognition"...it could be merged to the "History" section, I believe. Victao lopes ( talk) 21:33, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
With Victao lopes' concerns in mind, I've merged said section into the lead and toned down the "they made it big somewhere else too!" aspect of it. The Billboard quote actually turned out to make a fairly decent finish for the introduction. – Cyrus XIII ( talk) 23:19, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure if this would be relevant to what is on Wikipedia under Dir en grey, but what about a section for A-Knot? I do realise that, as a fanclub, it is not the actual band, nor does wikipedia approve of promotion of organizations, but I think a small secion on A-Knot would be nice. Let the people know that there is a fanclub for those who live in Japan, not to mention the support of the fanclub for the band. Just an idea? Vul~Gar~Den ( talk) 00:39, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Under each of the members own seperate articals it looks like a giant Ad for ESP Guitars. i think someone should at least tone it down. Im to lazy to fix or leave a notice under every article so I'll leave it here. Setsuka13 —Preceding comment was added at 02:20, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
Notable - as an english word, means "Worthy of note or notice; remarkable." So if Dir en Grey has had remarkable sucess in the United States, that would mean a pretty big success. I would call the words "notable success" to be weasel words in this case - neither notable or success have clear definitions in the context of the article. What is really meant is "some success that can be documented" but it comes out sounding like they are huge in the US. I think it would be more appropriate to say they have a dedicated but small fanbase, or have found a nitch market, and are continuing to grow which would be more accurate. Denaar ( talk) 01:40, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
I thought I'd bring this up with a source I've found: [12]. Not sure if it can be used but it would be interesting to cover their gothic and death metal influences to their music. I do not wish to be pulled into the discussion so I'll let you people decide if you want to use it and or continue searching for sources on this. FireCrystal ( talk) 21:51, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
Someone changed the line in the style and subject matter section from "Some tracks of their debut album Gauze also demonstrated a distinct pop appeal..." to "Some tracks of their debut album Gauze also demonstrated a distinct hardcore punk appeal...".
I'm not sure if I should change that back to 'pop'. XShurikenx ( talk) 20:24, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
We'll ignore the fact that Withering to Death was listed by a Japanese magazine as one of the top 12 Visual Kei albums of all time [13] because Dir en Grey's is still concept oriented, and Visual bands are focused on concept, but I agree they have toned down their attire over time. I removed the term "flamboyant" to a more neutral term because flamboyant is slang for "gay" in the US. Please look at Urban Dictionary or our own Wikipedia: Flamboyant_(disambiguation): Flamboyant is a potentially pejorative adjective for LGBT people, or those perceived to be, whose behavior is reflected in a stereotypical "flamboyancy". Flamboyant This article is about the Gothic architecture style. For human trait of flamboyancy, see effeminacy. Denaar ( talk) 16:45, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Anthony Appleyard ( talk) 05:07, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
Dir en grey → Dir En Grey — Per WP:MOSTM, which states that trademarks should be capitalized, as with proper names, and to "follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules even if the trademark owner considers nonstandard formatting 'official'" Sorafune +1 21:26, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: nomination withdrawn. mx3 話 16:23, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved. Jafeluv ( talk) 00:21, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Dir En Grey → DIR EN GREY — DIR EN GREY is the correct typeset for this wiki. The band itself, their record labels around the world (Japan, Europe, North America) is refering them as DIR EN GREY (in caps) their MySpace and official homepage, their CD and DVD releases, official merchandise is also refering them as DIR EN GREY. It's Artist Intent and should be respected. Stop decline this, I'll just request the move once again and again. I'm not giving up because I'm correct about this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Killinstinct ( talk • contribs) 16:12, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
Since the current one is from 2009, does anyone else think it would be a good idea to update it with something more recent? Perhaps a promo shot from 2011 or one of their latest tour pictures. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.41.213.167 ( talk) 19:41, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
Can we change the various Metalcore, death metal and all the extreme styles simply with extreme metal?? They change and mix some of these styles in each song, and extreme metal can be used generally of course. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.29.140.77 ( talk) 11:16, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
Should this section be included in the article? I do not think it passes WP:NRV and WP:NTEMP. It was a brief advertising campaign, has it had any further developments since? If it hasn't, it should probably be removed from the article. xcuref1endx ( talk) 14:48, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
In the introduction there is this; "Billboard commenting on the group's international fanbase, wrote that the band "has transcended the language barrier in the United States through its music" and "gained its audience without singing in English". This seems that it could have easily been entered into the article by Dir En Grey's publicists. Does it add anything to the overall information of the article? Would it be any different if there was just a comment on their international success? The "trascending" of language barrier seems a bit excessive. Any thoughts? -- Xcuref1endx ( talk) 11:36, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
Dir En Grey Yarouze doesn't meet WP:NBOOK or WP:GNG, but could be a useful merge and redirect here. Boleyn ( talk) 09:20, 26 December 2014 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This isn't a major change to this page, but I've added a listing for Kyo if any are interested. I felt that he has done some rather significant things beyond just being a part of Dir en grey, and that he deserved a listing as such. I feel I covered it well, but feel free to make changes. I'm sure I probably made language mistakes here and there that others may find that I couldn't see, or prehaps n-pov mistakes even though attempted to remain unbiased.
Also, you may have a perspective on it that I was unable to put into words.
~ Saka. 12:24. 04.01.2004
I've changed the translation of the word "Dir en Grey" in this file. I've never agreed with the extremely unbased "Silver Coin" claims, and it's almost obvious that Dir en Grey means "to you in grey" since Lareine's demo is also called ~Haiiro no anata o~, which means just that. I hope I didn't break any HORRIBLE un-written rule :P ~Ikis, 20:30 06.28.2005 (Israel time. YOU calculate >>;)
I devided the band's release history with their performance history of other random history. The article was getting too cluttered to read. I also removed some unneeded information, like most of the info on saku and clever slezoid, or personal information (like abotu shinya's dogs) that wasn't very relevent to the topic. ~Saka 11:25 September 22, 2005
I'm new to this band... but I am unsure about the release dates.. how can a single (ie, THE FINAL) but released a year before the album?
Corrected some grammatical mistakes, and re-worded some sentences that didn't sound very good, in response to the cleanup feature. I think it could still use a little more work. -Kyle, 16:03 3 October, 2005.
Not sure who rewrote things so drastically since I last edited the page, but I really think it's got a quite a bit wrong with it. There seems to be some bias in the first paragraph ("profound lyrics"), and the brief history seems to have deleted the actual background of the band in favor of a more "recent events" type thing. I'm going to revert back a bit, I apologize if anyone made any significant changes.
Speaking of which, is it just me, or does the entirety of the "name paragraph" sound awkward now? -- Illness Illusion 03:49, 13 October 2005 (UTC)
See the version comparison.] I've fixed a number of grammatical and formatting mistakes throughout the text, and standardised the date formats to the more human-readable English standard (from dd.mm.yyyy, yyyy.mm.dd, and dd Month yyyy to Month dd, yyyy). I converted some inline external links to wikilinks and added a few new wikilinks. The links list was pruned to remove apparently irrelevent links; see "Wikipedia is not a mirror or a repository of links" (official policy). Several links seem to simply be portals or otherwise unrelated websites. I didn't touch the fan links, but will return to prune that as well -- only notable groups should be included, if at all. Likewise, I'll later remove the lyrics section, since the information should be placed on Wikipedia on the appropriate album or song page. I further rewrote the Band Members section into prose form, which should be much more readable, and moved it above the Brief History section. I still see quite a few improvements that could be made, but I'll wait a bit for those. On a related note, could anyone clarify the following line from the article?
Dir en grey's international fans who speak a Latin-based language often use the abbreviations Deg and Diru when both speaking and typing for sake of brevity.
// Pathoschild 04:42, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
I removed the last paragraph of this section. I feel that defining Visual Kei at this point in the article is unnecessary and Visual Kei has it's own article for this. Also stating that Diru strayed from their Visual Kei roots is stated in the previous paragraph and is redundant. - frogfusious
I feel this version of the history section is too cluttered. Therefore, I've reverted to my previous version (from September 2005) of the page and have edited it, taking into consideration the edits that have occured between that version and the former 'current' version. Changes I've made to my old version include:
PLEASE NOTE: The Band's early histroy has NOT been abandoned, as was a complaint last time. If the page is lacking in early history, it is because is was not there to begin with. My version was simply a division of the information into two sections and included everything the version before it did with one difference: organization. However, there is a significant amount of recent information here, and I have added a bit more. At the same time - I have added information about the origin of the band and early occurance that were previously unreleased here. Hopefully, this will quite the complaints about lack of early history.
New information and corrections are welcome (Particuarly needed on Fandom and the Profile), but I feel that the page needs a distinction between what is actual history and what is just a glorified release timeline.
Hope you guys like the changes. ~Saka 5:01 January 9, 2006
Mostly added some info in fandom and other information. I think more detail could be given on the nuance in Deg's shift from Vis Kei / Japanese to Rock / Western influences. For instance, consider how six Ugly began the shift to the "Vulgar era" (a term already on page). While Western / Rock influenced, it just seemed there is some more detail there; the punk vs. metal is a good start I think. Also, I wanted to mention how many elements of six Ugly were already part of Deg's history - for example, Byo shin epitomizes in some ways the sound of this album, and yet it is simply reworked from their indies release! I don't think I actually added that in yet...
Also, when adding things, i noticed it seems there is overlap between Release summary and fandom sections. Not quite sure how this should be resolved. Maybe some of my edits should be closer to release info...
I guess to summarize, my main point is that there are some good details here that, as Saka mentions are not history per se, but perhaps *should* be included as sort of an analysis or 'glorification' of their releases.
Anyways check it out the edits and make 'em better...!
just made one minor grammer change
changed
"The release was such a departure that the band to consider releasing it under a new name"
to
"The release was such a departure that the band considered releasing it under a new name"
looked like the author changed how they wanted to refer to the event half way through perhaps intending
"The release was such a departure that it caused the band to consider releasing it under a new name"
well this is proably to verbose so feel free to chop it out of the discussion. NatDinoMus 3rd Feb 06
I’ve tried to rework the entire article, it looked like an ugly, cluttered mess, information about each members belongs in their own article, as does in-depth looks and fan receptions of each release. - Deathrocker 20:10, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm pretty shocked how a previously rather decent article has been dumbed down and superficialised. Several bits of useful information are gone (the whole style/sellout controversy for example) instead there is an air now of bias and - excuse my frankness - bad English. And really, is a picture that portraits the group in it's long-gone Visual Kei looks appropriate for the Wikipedia? Dir en grey are touring the US right now and will do more concerts in Europe later this year. That means that quite a few people might want to look them up here and they will want a well written and down to earth band history and probably one or two paragraphs about the stylistic development over the years.
I'll try see to that myself depending on how much time I'll be able to spare. - Cyrus XIII, March 18th, 2006
I've been watching this page for a bit, and I must agree with Cyrus. Things have been dumbed down, and I wish someone with the proper knowledge could expand this page from it's current narrowness about touring into a well bodied article. There are other aspects about this group that could be documented. - TheS0S 19:29, 19 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm about to give up on this one. Bits I added in the 1st paragraph, concerning the band's musical style have already been reduced to "a form of Hard rock" which is about as expressive as "this band plays music". So sad the people responsible lack the social competence to actually use this discussion page as a means to come up with something that would meet Wikipedia's quality standards instead of promoting their own opinion or wishful thinking on the topic at hand (as I mentioned before, the fanbase of this group is somewhat devided and it would be desirable if certain more narrow minded individuals stood as far away from the edit button as possible).
If anyone would like to team up with me to give this article a complete and thorough makeover, feel free to contact me here or on ICQ (74062151) - Cyrus XIII, April 20th, 2006
I suggest that you A) assume good faith. B) Study the articles of Gothic rock, Industrial and Pop to find out what these genres actually are musically, before cluttering the article listing 5 or more genres that the band have no connection to sound wise. You may learn something. - Deathrocker 20:52, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
My iteration of the paragraph didn't even contain two of the three genres you just linked, a look at the article's history would have told you that. Under such circumstances you might understand that the ability to assume good faith is a tiny bit strained on my end. - Cyrus XIII, April 21th, 2006
I'm sorry if this made sense to every one but why is the discography on a seperate page? im pretty sure that isnt standard wikipedia practice. Maybe the pages should be merged ? user:coda_littleking
It is certainly some sort of standard for bands with vast discographies (think KISS), but this is not really the case yet with the group at hand here. I'd also suggest to do something about this extensive tour title list. It seems so profoundly irrelevant. - Cyrus XIII, April 21th, 2006
Quite alot of bands have it on Wikipedia, including, David Bowie, Marilyn Manson.. and others, Dir en Grey have released quite alot of singles, which is included on the discography page. - Deathrocker 10:35, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
I've changed the image for a better one, and I think it's more recent. You can see the members more clearly than in the old one. Hope you don't get angry :)
~ FAZZ @ 15 May 2006
Today, I was seeking information on Die, the guitarist for this band. When I arrived at this often referenced page, I found it was completely empty. I've heard that this article has been dumbed down, and I agree that some important facts and some good writing are missing. I have restored the article, and request that anybody who wants a new article write one themselves. In the mean time, let's leave up this current revision. It is, after all, better to have a low-standard article than to not have one at all. - notjake13 5:40, 16 May 2006 (EST)
this article really reads like a fan page... not an informative article. i'm going to go through and take out some of the POV stuff and clean up some spelling, grammar, etc. let me know if you disagree with anything i alter. Tmkain 01:18, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
I agree with TheSOS and notjake13. The article now has a respective marking which will hopefully draw enough attention to the issue. A complete rewrite is needed, to get rid of a few cases of personal bias and utter fanboyism. Plus there are no citations for most of what is in it (which makes some aspects, especially the band's early history rather disputable). - Cyrus XIII, May 23rd, 2006
notjake13 was refering to the article been blanked by an anon [1] nobody bothered to revert the vandalism. - Deathrocker 07:29, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Could you stop these counter-productive interferences? By now it looks like you have a personal agenda to keep this article in a state several other people already agreed on being low quality (regardless of any sort of vandalism that might have occured in the meantime). So you can either start co-operating or back off and let people make some genuine improvements. Like adding a tag to draw broader attention to some evident shortcomings. - Cyrus XIII, May 23rd, 2006
Could you please stop whinging about the article and actually put forth something to it?.. you've made absolutely no effort to improve the article at all or even state which parts you feel need improving & why..
All I've seen you do is whinge on here, and make one edit to the actual article, which was ridiculous, claiming the band played "Goth rock/Nu-metal/Industrial/Pop/Shock rock".. when you seemingly have no prior knowledge of those genres. - Deathrocker 15:05, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
I started out cleaning things up a bit (redundant/hardly relevant information, bias/unnecessary grandeur, bad English) and ended up rephrasing pretty much the entire article. I guess it -is- a lot more readable and up to Wikipedia standards now though it could still use more meat between all the releases and touring. But please, it should still be more noteworthy stuff than lengthy tour names and the availability of t-shirts. An extra section about the ongoing controversy among fans regarding Dir en grey's stylistic and visual changes would be nice, the discography page could use pictures and there really has to be a way to make the tour list look less ugly. That's my todo list for the not so distant future - or anyone who reads this and likes the idea. :) - Cyrus XIII, May 26th, 2006
Congratulations to whomever rewrote this article! The aricle is much cleaner, more focused, and less biased. I am now confident in directing people to this page fo further informatoin on Dir en grey. - notjake13 13:06, 1 June 2006 (JST)
Thx notjake13, good to get some positive feedback. I outlined a few more things that would improve this and its related articles here and while we're at it, there are individual articles for all of Dir en grey's singles (!) which should just be deleted/merged with the discography. - Cyrus XIII, June 1st, 2006
Good job Cyrus, the article looks a lot better now. About the singles, I think they need more information, eg: "This single caused fans to blah blah" or "this has been the most succesful single to date... blah blah" etc. Fazz010s 04:42, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
Just gave the tour list a makeover (unintentionally marked as a minor edit - my bad), again, the result should be less cluttered/more readable. By the way, I would really like to know why this Deathmask thing does not need the {{ Fact}} tag. - Cyrus XIII, June 2nd, 2006
...mainly to reduce redundancy created by recent changes. A few words to fellow contributers: Your input is appreciated, but please, when you add something to the article, read the entire article beforehand and employ common sense about what ot add and what not.
Also, I cleaned up the lineup section, opting for the singer's birth name as mentioned in his own article.
- Cyrus XIII, June 10th, 2006
I was reading the Dir en grey article, and it seems overly biased, as written by an obsessed fan. - 66.153.232.185, July 30th, 2006
Feel free to improve it. I must admit some curiosity though, what content actually qualifies to be "overly biased" and "obsessed" after the article's recent makeovers. I took the liberty (hopefully to no one's offense) to chronologically order this discussion page. - Cyrus XIII, August 9th, 2006
...of the Band members in the lineup section. Some kids seem to insist that here or more generally in articles concerning Japanese bands the western naming scheme for people (first name followed by family name) does not apply, even though it is common for most western literature about anything/anyone Japanese including the English Wikipedia itself. Some examples: Junichiro Koizumi, Shinji Ikari, Nobuo Uematsu
In the past, people often complained about this article reading like a fan site, complete with bias and a touch of elitism. The Japanese naming scheme (family name followed by first name), a lot of Kanji and the full capitalization of whatever other name or title that might have stumbled into the article (like the supposed previous bandname that has lacked a citation for months by now) does not help. Quite the opposite, actually. - Cyrus XIII, August 16th, 2006
I hope I'm not out of line in saying this but I really wish people would stop changing the genre to "Japanese rock", "J-rock" and "Visual Kei". Rock is rock no matter where it comes from so I don't believe "Japanese rock" certifies as a true genre of it's own, same goes for J-rock, which I'm pretty sure is a fan-created term anyway and "visual Kei" is a style of dressing which many bands of many different genres take on, it does not count as a genre of music. ~SpatulaGeekGirl
I agree with you in so far that the term Japanese rock (and its abbrevation J-Rock) does not say much about the music apart from
There isn't really anything more defining about the term and same goes for Visual Kei, which as you said is about the look of the band. (I'd love to see people contesting these assesments by explaining the miriads of smilarities between Luna Sea's "Rosier" and Malice Mizer's "Hakai No Hate" to me.)
But since Japanese rock just happens to apply to what Dir en grey are doing (though their Visual Kei days are indeed pretty much over), we might as well stick with it. I've already been going at lengths all over Wikipedia to replace J-Rock with its spelled out counterpart, in order to present readers with a more sober/scientific/encyclopedic genre handle, that is less coined by a given fanbase. I'd welcome any help I can get with that. - Cyrus XIII, 10:02, September 5th 2006 (CET)
Let's try not to put anything even remotely connected with this band into the link section, shall we?
Festivals they happen to play at should not be there as well as sites in Japanese that when compared to sites already linked feature no additional (Free-Will Japan) or redundant or outdated information (SunKrad). Also I see no harm in directly linking to the related artist's section on the external site, since this is what someone coming from this article will most likely be browsing to anyway. Also re-ordered was the labels section in the info box, which now lists the two companies primarily credited on Deg releases first, with secondary distributers listed in alphabetic order after that.
- Cyrus XIII, 11:41, September 6th 2006 (CET)
Recently, the user CLEVER SLEAZOID made a page for the bootlegged audio rip of TOUR06 INWARD SCREAM at the Budokan last August.
Does any of you think that should be added to the Discography?
-AKnot
I Wouldn't say so. Apart from the relatively short period of time between now and the next album and/or official live release, this bootleg will hold very little significance, if any at all. Plus it has never been released through any traditional channels, the audio quality is so bad, it is hard to even recognize previously released songs and the titles for new songs given in the article's track list are likely to be made up by the bootlegger or other fans along the way. - Cyrus XIII, 8:08, September 9th 2006 (CET)
I'd like to propose the removal of the Touring section for the following reasons:
Please express your opinion in the Survey subsection and vote with either delete or keep.
Regards
- Cyrus XIII, 20:02, September 10th 2006 (CET)
Even though I started the touring section long ago, I don't think it's really needed within the page since it's in the official site; people can just go to the official site and look at the timeline section there. So in conclusion, delete.
-AKnot 9/11/06 10:55AM US PST
Even though participation has been low, the proposal has been pending for five days and the vote is unanimous. Information not included in the official site's timeline has already been added to the articles about the individual live DVDs, the last revision of this page containing the Touring section may be found here here. - Cyrus XIII, 21:41, September 15th 2006 (CET)
To everyone (including IP contributors), Dir en grey has been changing into different genres within their career; so finding their specific genre is difficult. But it's known they are part of Japanese rock. So please don't add genres (including former ones) like what happened to the recent edits by 207.106.123.38. It only causes some confusion.
There was another recent edit in which someone added a genre not familer to Dir en grey. Please take that into consideration... If you still didn't catch that, don't add genres unknown to Dir en grey.
AKnot 00:43, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Does Dir en Grey qualify as Death Metal. I'm not exactly sure what Death Metal is (even after a wiki description) so only someone who listens to it is qualifies to say "sure is" or "not quite." Though from what I've been seeing of their new videos on YouTube my guess is going towards "sure is." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.19.236.220 ( talk)
When the Dir en grey wiki came about til now, people have been adding fan links (not including the community and lyric site(s)). Does anybody think this wiki should have fan links at all?
AKnot 00:03, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
P.S. I removed the Keloid Milk fan link til further responses and such.
After recently looking at Dir en grey's new look on their official web site, does anybody think the wiki should have that current look as their group pic? Thank you... AKnot 00:10, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
I have removed all references to the supposed actual names of the band members for now. There should be no attempts to put them back in unless somebody can come up with decent sources. Please keep in mind that Wikipedia is not a rumor mill and that we are dealing with living people here, who certainly would not like to see misinformation about their person here. - Cyrus XIII 08:31, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
I uploaded their tour background logo. [2]
Would it be fine if the logo was in the wiki (i.e. on top of group pic)?
AKnot 01:23, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
The banner that noted that this section should be cleaned up has been removed I guess until I further clarify what the definition of "messy" is. Particularly what needs fixing is the syntax and the grammar of the article. For example, I will take a typical sentence style that is scattered all around the article. "This caught the attention of Yoshiki Hayashi of X Japan fame, who produced and arranged the singles of their subsequent album, Gauze, released in 1999." Just minor things like that, I feel it needs to be more formal and not so "stylized". Dec 11 2006 12:34 xcuref1endx (UTC)
What about genre adding in albums and singles?
Thoughts?
AKnot 01:43, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
I gave the section a small rewrite, limiting the number of genres mentioned, not going too much into detail (song examples) and trying to have it come a bit more directly from the music found on those records, instead of repeating stuff thrown around at web based discussions on this matter. Hope this works for the most people. Sorry about those half-a-dozen-something minor edits following the big one, I could certainly use more sleep these days.
In other news: I'm trying to come up with good tracks to take samples from, in order to illustrate the band's work with actual audio. I would say three would be well in the limits of fair use, one from Gauze, one from Kisou and one from Withering to Death. Suggestions? - Cyrus XIII 07:30, 20 January 2007 (UTC)
Cage (Gauze), Filth (Kisou), The Final or (Withering to death.). I believe those are good suggestions. If it was possible to have more, I would also suggest Macabre (Macabre), umbrella (six Ugly), Obscure (Vulgar), and Grief (The Marrow of A Bone). AKnot 02:23, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the first sentences that was not important information, then we need some citations, for example that they were the first indie and to enter at the top 10 of the Oricon, i guess that this isn't true so X Japan entered 10 years before as you already know. Then we need also some citations for the Kyo injuries, and then i have deleted the paragraph from the line-up section, most of the bands use nickname and not their first name: Pata ( Tomoaki Ishizuka) for example, or Klaha, Közi, etc. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.184.87.104 ( talk) 18:32, 2 January 2007 (UTC).
why isnt it on the videography? Quatreryukami 19:49, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Since in Wikipedia, the names of bands are kept with their respective capitalizations, I was wondering if Dir en grey should be moved to DIERENGREY. If you notice on the latest album, the name is written this way consistently on both the cover and within the booklet. I won't move until sufficient responses have been made, but wouldn't this be considered an official name change? -- Jake 22:10, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
More recently, some articles have been created to illustrate the band's individual tours. While precedents for such pages exist on Wikipedia, they usually document live efforts by bands who are arguably far more notable than Dir en grey, with internationally successful careers spanning not just barely one but several decades (like Metallica, The Rolling Stones and U2). Apart from information already covered by related articles (like this one or the those dealing with the band's extensive videography) and content copied from the official website's timeline, these articles largely rely on unsourced material. On a lesser note, some also appear to require cleanup with Wikipedia's style guidelines in mind (i.e. WP:ALBUMS).
The links to these articles from this one have been removed for the time being, until aforementioned notability, verifiability and potential copyright issues have been resolved. If someone would like to make improvements, the respective meta article can be found here: List of Dir en grey concert tours - Cyrus XIII 02:29, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
After reading the article in question, I agree that all problems stated exist. I would also like to say that, being most of the concerts listed have little or no data associated with them, I would even go so far as to say delete it. There's just not enough content to be considered encyclopic. Maybe I'm going too far, but that's what I think. Quatreryukami 17:42, 23 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm not really into editing, but just wanted to say that Tour 2011 Paradox of Retaliation hasn't been noticed anywhere (according to the official website). Cheers. 37.209.147.21 ( talk) 04:22, 4 April 2014 (UTC)
Err, this sentence doesn't seem to make much sense:
Ambrosia- 04:33, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
I think it is necessary to have a picture from Dir en grey's "Visual Kei" period, as that is part of their history. For the American audience, Visual Kei is an unknown thing, and while there is a small page on it, it is better represented by an image. Does anybody have suggested images or think it to be unnecessary?
Also, so as to not clog the talk page, I'll add here that I changed the word "appearances" in the festival notation in the final paragraph, as "appearing" somewhere is different than "performing" somewhere. Example being, Ozzy Osborne appears at ever Ozzfest summer festival, but does not perform at every show.-- Jake 11:35, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
Should La:Sadie's or D+L be included in the "Associated Acts" section of the infobox?-- Jacob 19:47, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
I changed the "Lineup" section. Changed "the artists are credited with their first names" to GIVEN names, because in Japanese, the family name comes first. Hope nobody minds.
The date of their exact formation isn't available on Wikipedia, however, it is generally accepted among fasn as February 2, 1997. I was browsing through the Yarouze magazine, which features an entire detailed history and profile of the band, and the history section includes February 2nd as a formation date. This source is in Japanese, but is as official as any other publication. Scans can be provided.-- Jacob 15:47, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
I found this information on the Japanese Wikipedia. I don't know if this is common knowledge or not, nor if this has been discussed before.
Dir en greyの意は、「Dir」はドイツ語で「銀貨」、「en」はフランス語で「~の」、「grey」は英語で「灰色」を合わせ、“灰色の銀貨”という意味であるとされている。(但し、実際にはドイツ語に「Dir」という単語は存在しない)
"According to Dir en grey, 'Dir' is German for 'silver coin,' 'en' is French for 'of,' and grey is English for 'grey.' Together, it means 'a silver coin of grey.' (However, there is no such word as 'Dir' in the German language)"
Is this information indeed correct, and is it relevant to the article? The only problem I see with it is that it's unscourced. This seems to be a recurring problem on Japanese Wikipedia.
(And yes, I know 灰色の銀貨 would be less literally, "a grey silver coin." I was just translating it with "en=of" in mind (is that accurate? I don't know a lick of French))
Chibi Gohan 10:20, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
Odd. So Dir is actually a word, but there isn't any connection to "silver coin." I suppose the "there is no such word as dir in the German language" comment was due to the Japanese editors lacking an understanding of German.
I would try to edit that out of the Japanese article, but I don't know quite enough Japanese to explain to the Japanese editors what the problem is (and, I don't really care that much :P).
Anyway, thank you for your input!
Chibi Gohan 13:20, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
I assumed their name was a japanisation of the everyouthful Oscar Wilde character [Dorian Gray|Dorian Gray] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 143.167.243.101 ( talk) 00:36, 21 November 2007 (UTC)
The band has been asked about the meaning of their name before, and they've always told interviewers that it doesn't actually mean anything. They purposely chose a name that doesn't have any real meaning behind it. I think the name of the Wiki article should be changed to "Dir en grey" without the capitalizations of the E and G. That's how it is written on their CDs, merchandise, etc. It has also been written as "DIR EN GREY", but never "Dir En Grey". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.123.50.12 ( talk) 21:57, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
Their name should ONLY be typeset as → Dir en grey ← with only the first D in capitals. This band is Japanese and they don't go by "Standard English Text Formatting", and shouldn't be threathed as an English/American band. Their name is a play on words and typset as Dir en grey and not Dir En Grey/Dir en Grey. ALL their official CD/DVD-releases has their name typeset as Dir en grey, and also all their official promotion and merchandise products, from the very beginning in 1997, same goes with their official logotype (Even in America) and official homepage. I wonder if you people who moderate this site even listen to this band? All other Wikipedia sites in other languages has them typeset as Dir en grey, why shouldn't the English/American profile do the same? Shouldn't Wikipedia have only legit information about stuff? This is not legit typsetting as it is now, and I'll be disappointed on Wikipedia if this is won't be changed into the correct typset Dir en grey. Dir en grey is correct, change it now. Thank you very much.
Killinstinct ( talk) 21:37, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
I'd just like to pitch in my two cents and say I would approve of and support Killinstinct's proposed name change and changing of typesetting as well, since, he's right, this isn't an American or British band, it's a Japanese band, and it was Dir en grey's intent to have their name typeset as "Dir en grey" and more recently "DIR EN GREY" instead of "Dir en Grey" or "Dir En Grey". It isn't Wikipedia's right to say how the band's name is typeset, it's theirs. In addition, capitalizing it with Standard English Text Formatting is incorrect and can mislead new fans of the band, which defeats the purpose of Wikipedia, which is to provide correct information. (bring on the flames) Arashi nightmare ( talk) 03:23, 19 March 2012 (UTC)
Recently, the MySpace was hacked by an anonymous person and this was proven with a bulletin. It will (or already) be removed until further notice. NaotoATG 02:00, 18 August 2007 (UTC)
The arrests of Free Will officials has everything to do with Dir en grey, the money was used defrauded using Dir en grey (and other bands) as an excuse, and was used to fund costs for bands signed to the label. Including tours, music videos, producing their records, and so on. 219.90.229.216 06:35, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
A list of Japanese musicians with success outside Asia. There are many more, but this list is big enough, and features musicians from many genres.
Stop writing that Dir en grey is one of the few, or notable Japanese musicians to have international success.
Akiko Yano, Yellow Magic Orchestra, Toshiko Akiyoshi, Pizzicato Five, Murahachibu, Tatsuro Yamashita, Kazumi Watanabe, Joji Hirota, Vow Wow, Sadistic Mika Band, Char, Boredoms, Hiroshi Fujiwara, Mute Beat, Toshinobu Kubota, Tokyo Ska Paradaise Orchestra, Hi-Standard, Eikichi Yazawa, Seiji Ozawa, Akira Jimbo, Denki Groove, Thee Michelle Gun Elephant, Kako Takashi, The Stalin, Lisa Ono, The Street Sliders, Buffalo Daughter, United Future Organization, Anzen Chitai, Cornelius, Loudness, Kyu Sakamoto, Dj Krush, Godiego, Fishmans, Zeebra, Keiko Matsui. 122.49.157.149 10:55, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
I suggest you research some of those musicians, because what you wrote is nonsense! The only thing Dir en grey has achieved, is a few non-domestic shows, and a few non-domestic album releases. They are not internationally influential like many other Japanese musicians. Internationally successful artists are not uncommon, and Japan has its fair share of world famous musicians. Yoji Biomehanika has achieved more international success than Dir en grey, why isn't he a "notable" Japanese musician? 122.49.157.149 16:02, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
Cyrus XIII said "surely you can present sufficient sources for your allegations" and you said "definition on world wide success varies"
I provided a small list of Japanese musicians with international success (as previously stated, there are many more) most of their biographies will detail their success.
Many of them are included in HMV's list of the top 100 Japanese musicians. http://www.hmv.co.jp/news/newsDetail.asp?newsnum=311040091
Please explain, why being internationally respected, pioneering, influential, and so on, is only a niche success?
Now explain, why Dir en grey has "notable" success, and is "among" the Japanese musicians with notable success.
Since their record label stole money to fund European and US operations, the article should be updated to include that information. 122.49.157.149 17:09, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
{{ editprotected}}
Request this information, and source be added to the article.
On September 14 2007, the president of their record label was arrested for defrauding an advertising agency in 2001 of almost US$3 million, by making it look like the agency had recieved orders to produce music videos for bands signed to the label.
Source: http://www.japantoday.com/jp/news/418315
The source evidently mentions Dir en grey, and comes from one of Japan biggest news companies. 122.49.149.115 07:17, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
This information is relevant to the article, and has a reliable source. It is kept sort and to the point. 219.90.180.76 14:16, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
Kaoru and Shinya don't have pictures but the other three members do. I don't have any but maybe someone should put one up...
Also other artists have a 'Video' section in their singles, saying what the videos show... does anyone else think they would be a good idea? Im-All-Ears 13:14, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
This article needs cleaning up, to meet the Wikipedia guidelines and standards.
The sections; "2007: The Marrow of a Bone" and "Style and subject matter" need attention.
A list of sentences that need removal, or rewording; in order of appearance.
This is an encyclopedia, and nothing else. —The preceding comment signed as by 122.49.135.245 ( talk • contribs) was actually added by Jun kaneko ( talk • contribs) - 00:16, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
I have no idea of what you wrote Cyrus XIII, but I'm taking it as an insult, and assuming bad faith on your part. According to the Wikipedia guidelines; this is not "crap" and needs to be corrected. Edit: Please read the following policy Wikipedia:Civility. This is a friendly warning, as you may of been unaware of this. — Preceding comment signed as by 122.49.135.245 ( talk • contribs) actually added by Jun kaneko ( talk • contribs) 02:42, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Cyrus XIII, please read the following policy, WP:ICA. I do not appreciate your behaviour. — Preceding comment signed as by 122.49.135.245 ( talk • contribs) actually added by Jun kaneko ( talk • contribs) 03:04, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
I addressed some minor problems myself, but a couple of issues still remain.
'Unencyclopedic:' As of 2007, they have released six full-length records.
Unencyclopedic and misinterpreted citations: are among the Japanese musicians who have enjoyed notable success in Europe and North America.
'Original research:' While the group's lineup has remained consistent since its inception, numerous stylistic changes have made its music's genre difficult to determine (though it is generally considered to be a form of rock music).
Original research, which had no link to a reference: According to guitarist Kaoru, the name "Dir en grey" was chosen because it "sounded right," and is comprised of words from several languages, so that people would not be able to attach a specific meaning to it other than that the band's name itself.
Reworded: One of the shows in support for the album...
Original research: Becoming more involved with the international music scene
Removed the statement: internet file-sharing only.
Removed irrelevance: along with bands such as Megadeth, Slayer and Children of Bodom.
The section "2007: The Marrow of a Bone" needs attention, because it is becoming a section devoted to news release. And the section "Style and subject matter" needs much attention, as it contains too much original research, someone with more knowledge on the subject please reword it, or find references to add to it. Saguy1982 21:19, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
The reference mentions nothing of the sort. Saguy1982 22:54, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
This is an article about the band Dir en grey, it is not about who performed at the particular performance. It has no relevance to this article. Saguy1982 22:54, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
The reference linked to that statement was not present. It was a date, and a link to a Fuse TV Wiki article. Saguy1982 22:54, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
The other information in the lead paragraph was written in the first reference, which was incorrectly placed. It has been restored. Saguy1982 22:54, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
I made an edit, and mentioned in the summary that there are notes on the talk page. There is nothing wrong with that Parsifal.
My edits have some merit, and some were wrong (and have been corrected) mostly they are minor insignificant details, so its nothing to get upset about, when the main goal is to improve the article.
The main problems left, are the "2007" section is becoming a news release, and needs attention by someone with more knowledge on the subject. And the "Style and subject matter" which contains too much original research, and either needs reworking, or references. Update: I also thank you Parsifal, for reworking the mistakes, but leaving edits which had merit. Saguy1982 22:59, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Parsifal already pointed out several problems with the recent changes, I'd like to add a few thoughts:
The question whether the group's international success should be mentioned in the lead, in the context of their nationality has already come up only recently, resulting in an edit war and temporary article protection, but also a consensus to be keep it. Back then, editor Notjake13 ( talk · contribs) compared Dir en grey with Rammstein, as neither German nor Japanese musical acts who have archived international mainstream success are exactly a dime a dozen. The sources the respective line in the lead was presented with specifically pointed out this novelity. [8] [9]
On a side note, for the sake of context, the IP based editor who felt so strongly about the alleged inappropriateness of the line in question, identified himself as Jun kaneko ( talk · contribs) in the aftermath of the earlier dispute/edit war/article lock, a person Saguy1982 now denies to be. [10] [11]
Regarding the Fuse TV source: If we were to expect all references used on Wikipedia to be readily available on the web, citing non-digital media, such as books would become quite impossible. For what it counts, the respective interview is easy enough to find on YouTube and while we do not accept this venue itself as a reliable source (for the obvious reason, that it is user-edited), citing the Fuse TV feature directly is entirely appropriate.
That all being said, I have yet to see a compelling rationale for any of the changes made since the article's October 31 revision. - Cyrus XIII 00:09, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
That might be your opinion Cyrus XIII, but that doesn't necessarily mean its true. In regards to the lead paragraph statement, and Fuse TV. I don't see any "novelty" about the band being Japanese. The same applies to German musicians. In fact, two of my favorite bands are German and Japanese. They are Enigma and the Flower Traveling Band. According to Amazon UK, the Flower Traveling Band remains quite popular. http://www.amazon.co.uk/Anywhere-Flower-Travellin-Band/dp/B000MQ50DY/ref=pd_sbs_b_shvl_img_3/203-4420607-7101513 I can think of many other German and Japanese bands with success outside their markets, but that is not the point. It is unencyclopedic, and this is an encyclopedia. And I don't agree that a reference that everyone can't verify should be added, but it appears Parsifal has an interview source for that information, so it no longer matters. Thanks Saguy1982 08:12, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
There is nothing really wrong with the article, apart from those two small sections that I hope someone will fix. This is becoming a long and tiresome matter, over such a simple thing. And I don't really see a need for my input any further. Please try to keep this article encyclopedic. Good luck Saguy1982 22:47, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't think we need a separated section for "International recognition"...it could be merged to the "History" section, I believe. Victao lopes ( talk) 21:33, 7 December 2007 (UTC)
With Victao lopes' concerns in mind, I've merged said section into the lead and toned down the "they made it big somewhere else too!" aspect of it. The Billboard quote actually turned out to make a fairly decent finish for the introduction. – Cyrus XIII ( talk) 23:19, 19 June 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure if this would be relevant to what is on Wikipedia under Dir en grey, but what about a section for A-Knot? I do realise that, as a fanclub, it is not the actual band, nor does wikipedia approve of promotion of organizations, but I think a small secion on A-Knot would be nice. Let the people know that there is a fanclub for those who live in Japan, not to mention the support of the fanclub for the band. Just an idea? Vul~Gar~Den ( talk) 00:39, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
Under each of the members own seperate articals it looks like a giant Ad for ESP Guitars. i think someone should at least tone it down. Im to lazy to fix or leave a notice under every article so I'll leave it here. Setsuka13 —Preceding comment was added at 02:20, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
Notable - as an english word, means "Worthy of note or notice; remarkable." So if Dir en Grey has had remarkable sucess in the United States, that would mean a pretty big success. I would call the words "notable success" to be weasel words in this case - neither notable or success have clear definitions in the context of the article. What is really meant is "some success that can be documented" but it comes out sounding like they are huge in the US. I think it would be more appropriate to say they have a dedicated but small fanbase, or have found a nitch market, and are continuing to grow which would be more accurate. Denaar ( talk) 01:40, 7 July 2008 (UTC)
I thought I'd bring this up with a source I've found: [12]. Not sure if it can be used but it would be interesting to cover their gothic and death metal influences to their music. I do not wish to be pulled into the discussion so I'll let you people decide if you want to use it and or continue searching for sources on this. FireCrystal ( talk) 21:51, 24 February 2009 (UTC)
Someone changed the line in the style and subject matter section from "Some tracks of their debut album Gauze also demonstrated a distinct pop appeal..." to "Some tracks of their debut album Gauze also demonstrated a distinct hardcore punk appeal...".
I'm not sure if I should change that back to 'pop'. XShurikenx ( talk) 20:24, 21 February 2010 (UTC)
We'll ignore the fact that Withering to Death was listed by a Japanese magazine as one of the top 12 Visual Kei albums of all time [13] because Dir en Grey's is still concept oriented, and Visual bands are focused on concept, but I agree they have toned down their attire over time. I removed the term "flamboyant" to a more neutral term because flamboyant is slang for "gay" in the US. Please look at Urban Dictionary or our own Wikipedia: Flamboyant_(disambiguation): Flamboyant is a potentially pejorative adjective for LGBT people, or those perceived to be, whose behavior is reflected in a stereotypical "flamboyancy". Flamboyant This article is about the Gothic architecture style. For human trait of flamboyancy, see effeminacy. Denaar ( talk) 16:45, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Anthony Appleyard ( talk) 05:07, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
Dir en grey → Dir En Grey — Per WP:MOSTM, which states that trademarks should be capitalized, as with proper names, and to "follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules even if the trademark owner considers nonstandard formatting 'official'" Sorafune +1 21:26, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: nomination withdrawn. mx3 話 16:23, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Not moved. Jafeluv ( talk) 00:21, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
Dir En Grey → DIR EN GREY — DIR EN GREY is the correct typeset for this wiki. The band itself, their record labels around the world (Japan, Europe, North America) is refering them as DIR EN GREY (in caps) their MySpace and official homepage, their CD and DVD releases, official merchandise is also refering them as DIR EN GREY. It's Artist Intent and should be respected. Stop decline this, I'll just request the move once again and again. I'm not giving up because I'm correct about this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Killinstinct ( talk • contribs) 16:12, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
Since the current one is from 2009, does anyone else think it would be a good idea to update it with something more recent? Perhaps a promo shot from 2011 or one of their latest tour pictures. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.41.213.167 ( talk) 19:41, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
Can we change the various Metalcore, death metal and all the extreme styles simply with extreme metal?? They change and mix some of these styles in each song, and extreme metal can be used generally of course. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.29.140.77 ( talk) 11:16, 28 July 2012 (UTC)
Should this section be included in the article? I do not think it passes WP:NRV and WP:NTEMP. It was a brief advertising campaign, has it had any further developments since? If it hasn't, it should probably be removed from the article. xcuref1endx ( talk) 14:48, 9 September 2014 (UTC)
In the introduction there is this; "Billboard commenting on the group's international fanbase, wrote that the band "has transcended the language barrier in the United States through its music" and "gained its audience without singing in English". This seems that it could have easily been entered into the article by Dir En Grey's publicists. Does it add anything to the overall information of the article? Would it be any different if there was just a comment on their international success? The "trascending" of language barrier seems a bit excessive. Any thoughts? -- Xcuref1endx ( talk) 11:36, 6 October 2014 (UTC)
Dir En Grey Yarouze doesn't meet WP:NBOOK or WP:GNG, but could be a useful merge and redirect here. Boleyn ( talk) 09:20, 26 December 2014 (UTC)