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Rare greek letters test sheet
"Ϝ ϝ" Digamma -- Ϙ ϙ Qoppa -- Ϡ ϡ Sampi -- "Ϻ ϻ" San
Pjacobi 09:01, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
On my computer system, I can't see the Digamma character. Possibly, that's because I don't have a Greek font that includes digamma. The same applies to San, Oopa and Sampi. What can I do to remedy this?
Cosmo 09:32, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
P.S. I'm new to Wikipedia, and I am not too savvy about fonts, except the fonts that came with the MS WORD. Although I can read modern Greek text such as news and advertising (up to a point), I've never come across Digamma, San, Oopa or Sampi.
There is next to no modern use (or even classical use, for most) of these letters, apart from some use as Greek numbers (see de:Griechische Zahlen, no article yet here).
I've installed tons of fonts for test purposed but I still can't get the San and the glyph for the large Sampi is only OK in typewriter font.
A good starting point to find a missing font is http://www.alanwood.net/unicode/fonts.html and if you decide to spend $5 for James Kass' Code 2000 you have a reasonable starting point for a wide range of scripts (free alternatives are listed at Alan's site).
This still leaves the issue whether your browser will select the right font and how and if you must make specific settings. In my experience the Gecko browsers (Netscape 7, Mozilla, Firefox) are more helpful by switching automatically to another font if a glyph is missing in the selected font.
Pjacobi 09:01, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
There is a mathematical function called the "digamma function" but I don't know what the appropriate symbol for it is. It certainly doesn't look like a sigma-tau or an F or anything. 67.164.12.169 01:11, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
User:87.202.138.201 added the following to the article, with the edit comment "I think Linear B material is now justified and acceptable. Perhaps the point of dispute, "derived", shouldn't be used anywhere.)".
-- Macrakis 22:50, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
The Name Digamma has also fifth letter of the Ukrainian alphabet - Ґ. The letter had the phonetic value ɡ, unlike letter Г (sound ɦ)-- Yakudza 19:19, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
I've set the font as Arial Unicode MS in my /monobook.css so I can view (most) uncommon letters, but the polytonic template remakes the letters to spaces for me. – Smiddle T C @ 16:09, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm a relative innocent when it comes to Greek; reasonably well-read on the subject of languages in general, familiar with the sound of Greek and able to puzzle out written Greek personal names and some words, but not a Grecophone by any stretch. However, I expect I'd have seen it somewhere if Modern Greek had descended from the Alexandrian dialect. Surely that should say Attic? TCC (talk) (contribs) 01:57, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
On the middle horizontal line of this letter, the semi-serif is kind of annoying. Georgia guy ( talk) 19:39, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
"because its omission left the meter defective. An example is the word ἄναξ (king) found in the Iliad, which would originally have been ϝάναξ [wanaks]" Could someone please explain how the meter could become defective by removing the digamma? The removal doesn't change the number of syllables, so the meter should still be the same as with the digamma. Or is the present example just poorly chosen? - 92.226.151.26 ( talk) 19:07, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
Can anyone here do what Guocozuoduo may not intend to do, and offer an explanation of the significance of the curved form of digamma? Since digamma is only a letter in Ancient Greek as far as I know, and modern texts do not use this form, I am left guessing. My best guess would be that it could be based on the kind of Medieval cursive that led to the replacement of digamma as a numeral by stigma, but I am loath to assign any speculative legitimacy to an edit that remains utterly unexplained. A modern-font version of something not printed in books, used to illustrate this article, would seem like OR to me. Wareh ( talk) 16:35, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
The google knol link I removed fails twice over,
most googe knol pages I have seen are worse than worthless, and this is a good illustration of what happens when you invite anyone to "contribute their knowledge" without any sort of review system. I say this because Wikipedia's less than perfect system of peer review positively shines by comparison. -- dab (𒁳) 11:13, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
The article contains the paragraph
I'm guessing that βάννε should read ϝάννε, otherwise the sentence doesn't appear to make sense...? — OwenBlacker ( Talk) 13:23, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
Just a small thing about structure: Erutuon just reintroduced the extra first-level heading, "Greek" [1]. I don't really see the sense in that: the whole page is exclusively about Greek. That heading appears to be quite redundant with the next, "Greek w". Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:13, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
IT seems extremely important to understand that evidence for existence of digamma comes with the Latin where it is preserved. Charles S. Halsey in AN ETYMOLOGY OF LATIN AND GREEK 1882. One of the more obvious places where digamma shows up is Latin video which is a reflection of the Greek ε F ιδον. L. R. Palmer in THE INTERPRETATION OF MYCENAEN GREEK TEXTS, page 44, explains the role of the digamma in the Mycenaean language. And Homer's rhythm came to life with realization of that lost digamma. Smyth's GRAMMAR sec 146d "...an initial digamma was probably doubled in pronunciation when it followed a short syllable carrying the rhythmic accent." The digamma was very much a part of living Greek or it would not have been preserved in the Latin. StevenTorrey ( talk) 22:59, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Nobody knows what digamma was ORIGINALLY called. You would need a time machine and a tape recorder to go back thousands of years. Whatever the connection between digamma and stigma is, a statement about this requires documentation; not just saying something. ( EnochBethany ( talk) 16:19, 8 August 2012 (UTC))
The letter F also has the sixth position in the English alphabet. GreekAlphabeta ( talk) 22:47, 21 November 2013 (UTC)GreekAlphabeta
Digamma represents the Greek number 6 and literally means two (di) + wed (gamos), consistent with the prefix for the number 6 in Latin: "sex-." GreekAlphabeta ( talk) 23:05, 21 November 2013 (UTC)GreekAlphabeta
Hello, from the Ancient‑Greek studies at dis‑tance, that I have per‑formed in Belgium in 2012, the "Smooth‑breathing" and "Rough‑breathing" serves to in‑dicate & marking the ab‑olition of the archaic letter Di‑gamma Ϝ [v] (Smooth) or Sigma/San Σ/Ϻ [ʃ/s] (Rough) in the word, the Ϝ or Σ/Ϻ can be at beginning or middle, it de‑pend of the position of the breathing.
{Di‑gamma Ϝ {also called ϜΑΥ : vau/vaw} is V be‑cause W was Υ/ΟΥ [u/w] from Phoenician 𐤅 [u], Ϝ don't share shape and sound with Υ / 𐤅, after some‑time Υ be‑came later [y] and [i] in Modern‑Greek ; Pamphylian Digamma/Wau/Waw Ͷ is [w], also Ϝ [v] be‑came Latin F [f], V & F are labio‑dental sound and can be con‑fused, when W & F have nothing in com‑mon, so Latin letter F sound [f] come from Ancient‑Greek letter Ϝ sound [v]...}.
In the French pre‑cise book of Ancient‑Greek "Le Grand Bailly" or "Abrégé Bailly" breathing (spirit in French) are re‑pre‑sented in the words and in the de‑finition, in [RAC : racine/root] Section is ad‑ded the original word with Di‑gamma Ϝ or Sigma/San Σ/Ϻ. In older editions of "Le Grand Bailly" or "Abrégé Bailly", the "Table of roots" (which is no longer pre‑sent in the new editions) speci‑fies the list of roots using Di‑gamma Ϝ [v] & Sigma/San Σ/Ϻ [ʃ/s], yet in Wikipedia English or French, no one mention that the "Smooth breathing" and "Rough breathing" was used for Di‑gamma Ϝ & Sigma/San Σ/Ϻ removing, why ??? They talk only about a‑spired H (no one can make a‑spired H be‑fore a RHO, it's im‑possible), so it's wrong... Also In Wiktionary page for Ancient‑Greek words using breathing, the W/V or S/SH is never mentioned in "Archaic pro‑nunciation", like for ex‑ample :
{I don't use ac‑cent acute / grave in Ancient‑Greek words be‑cause at that time they didn't ex‑ist, also writing Ancient‑Greek word in minuscule is an error, be‑cause at that epoch only capital script with‑out ac‑cent ex‑isted, minuscule should be used only for Modern‑Greek in your Wiktionary or Wikipedia...}. Gmazdên ( talk) 12:09, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
This article is a little confusing. The section on Greek suggests that the letter was obsolete by classical times, surviving longer in the Aeolian dialect (but the article doesn't say how long. Could somebody add a date, or at least a century, when this dialect lost the letter)?
The lede says "In modern print, a distinction is made between the letter in its original alphabetic role as a consonant sign... and the numeric symbol." Why does modern print typeset a letter which has not been used in over 2000 years? The section on glyph development mentions the development in the "ninth and tenth century", and the "glyph confusion" section talks about medieval use-- huh? The section on "early handwriting" could also use some dates (does "early" mean 500 BC or 500 AD?), and a mention of whether it's the letter or the numeral that's being discussed. Geoffrey.landis ( talk) 15:13, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
At the very end of the "Numeral" section, the text currently reads: "although in practice ΣΤ΄ is much more often." This wording should be changed in one of two possible ways. Either (1) change it by inserting the word "found": "although in practice ΣΤ΄ is found much more often.", or (2) change it by replacing the word "often" with the word "common": "although in practice ΣΤ΄ is much more common." 72.42.152.105 ( talk) 13:44, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
Ϝ is sometimes used to represent the digamma function, though the Latin letter F (which is nearly identical) is usually substituted. A hypothetical particle Ϝ speculated to be implicated in the 750 GeV diphoton excess, now known to be simply a statistical anomaly 172.117.237.102 ( talk) 17:39, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
The image of "A fragment of Papyrus 115" names "616" as the Number of the Beast - this is obviously a typo. 198.109.220.243 ( talk) 00:55, 18 September 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Rare greek letters test sheet
"Ϝ ϝ" Digamma -- Ϙ ϙ Qoppa -- Ϡ ϡ Sampi -- "Ϻ ϻ" San
Pjacobi 09:01, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
On my computer system, I can't see the Digamma character. Possibly, that's because I don't have a Greek font that includes digamma. The same applies to San, Oopa and Sampi. What can I do to remedy this?
Cosmo 09:32, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
P.S. I'm new to Wikipedia, and I am not too savvy about fonts, except the fonts that came with the MS WORD. Although I can read modern Greek text such as news and advertising (up to a point), I've never come across Digamma, San, Oopa or Sampi.
There is next to no modern use (or even classical use, for most) of these letters, apart from some use as Greek numbers (see de:Griechische Zahlen, no article yet here).
I've installed tons of fonts for test purposed but I still can't get the San and the glyph for the large Sampi is only OK in typewriter font.
A good starting point to find a missing font is http://www.alanwood.net/unicode/fonts.html and if you decide to spend $5 for James Kass' Code 2000 you have a reasonable starting point for a wide range of scripts (free alternatives are listed at Alan's site).
This still leaves the issue whether your browser will select the right font and how and if you must make specific settings. In my experience the Gecko browsers (Netscape 7, Mozilla, Firefox) are more helpful by switching automatically to another font if a glyph is missing in the selected font.
Pjacobi 09:01, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
There is a mathematical function called the "digamma function" but I don't know what the appropriate symbol for it is. It certainly doesn't look like a sigma-tau or an F or anything. 67.164.12.169 01:11, 4 October 2005 (UTC)
User:87.202.138.201 added the following to the article, with the edit comment "I think Linear B material is now justified and acceptable. Perhaps the point of dispute, "derived", shouldn't be used anywhere.)".
-- Macrakis 22:50, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
The Name Digamma has also fifth letter of the Ukrainian alphabet - Ґ. The letter had the phonetic value ɡ, unlike letter Г (sound ɦ)-- Yakudza 19:19, 11 December 2005 (UTC)
I've set the font as Arial Unicode MS in my /monobook.css so I can view (most) uncommon letters, but the polytonic template remakes the letters to spaces for me. – Smiddle T C @ 16:09, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm a relative innocent when it comes to Greek; reasonably well-read on the subject of languages in general, familiar with the sound of Greek and able to puzzle out written Greek personal names and some words, but not a Grecophone by any stretch. However, I expect I'd have seen it somewhere if Modern Greek had descended from the Alexandrian dialect. Surely that should say Attic? TCC (talk) (contribs) 01:57, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
On the middle horizontal line of this letter, the semi-serif is kind of annoying. Georgia guy ( talk) 19:39, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
"because its omission left the meter defective. An example is the word ἄναξ (king) found in the Iliad, which would originally have been ϝάναξ [wanaks]" Could someone please explain how the meter could become defective by removing the digamma? The removal doesn't change the number of syllables, so the meter should still be the same as with the digamma. Or is the present example just poorly chosen? - 92.226.151.26 ( talk) 19:07, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
Can anyone here do what Guocozuoduo may not intend to do, and offer an explanation of the significance of the curved form of digamma? Since digamma is only a letter in Ancient Greek as far as I know, and modern texts do not use this form, I am left guessing. My best guess would be that it could be based on the kind of Medieval cursive that led to the replacement of digamma as a numeral by stigma, but I am loath to assign any speculative legitimacy to an edit that remains utterly unexplained. A modern-font version of something not printed in books, used to illustrate this article, would seem like OR to me. Wareh ( talk) 16:35, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
The google knol link I removed fails twice over,
most googe knol pages I have seen are worse than worthless, and this is a good illustration of what happens when you invite anyone to "contribute their knowledge" without any sort of review system. I say this because Wikipedia's less than perfect system of peer review positively shines by comparison. -- dab (𒁳) 11:13, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
The article contains the paragraph
I'm guessing that βάννε should read ϝάννε, otherwise the sentence doesn't appear to make sense...? — OwenBlacker ( Talk) 13:23, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
Just a small thing about structure: Erutuon just reintroduced the extra first-level heading, "Greek" [1]. I don't really see the sense in that: the whole page is exclusively about Greek. That heading appears to be quite redundant with the next, "Greek w". Fut.Perf. ☼ 07:13, 9 October 2010 (UTC)
IT seems extremely important to understand that evidence for existence of digamma comes with the Latin where it is preserved. Charles S. Halsey in AN ETYMOLOGY OF LATIN AND GREEK 1882. One of the more obvious places where digamma shows up is Latin video which is a reflection of the Greek ε F ιδον. L. R. Palmer in THE INTERPRETATION OF MYCENAEN GREEK TEXTS, page 44, explains the role of the digamma in the Mycenaean language. And Homer's rhythm came to life with realization of that lost digamma. Smyth's GRAMMAR sec 146d "...an initial digamma was probably doubled in pronunciation when it followed a short syllable carrying the rhythmic accent." The digamma was very much a part of living Greek or it would not have been preserved in the Latin. StevenTorrey ( talk) 22:59, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Nobody knows what digamma was ORIGINALLY called. You would need a time machine and a tape recorder to go back thousands of years. Whatever the connection between digamma and stigma is, a statement about this requires documentation; not just saying something. ( EnochBethany ( talk) 16:19, 8 August 2012 (UTC))
The letter F also has the sixth position in the English alphabet. GreekAlphabeta ( talk) 22:47, 21 November 2013 (UTC)GreekAlphabeta
Digamma represents the Greek number 6 and literally means two (di) + wed (gamos), consistent with the prefix for the number 6 in Latin: "sex-." GreekAlphabeta ( talk) 23:05, 21 November 2013 (UTC)GreekAlphabeta
Hello, from the Ancient‑Greek studies at dis‑tance, that I have per‑formed in Belgium in 2012, the "Smooth‑breathing" and "Rough‑breathing" serves to in‑dicate & marking the ab‑olition of the archaic letter Di‑gamma Ϝ [v] (Smooth) or Sigma/San Σ/Ϻ [ʃ/s] (Rough) in the word, the Ϝ or Σ/Ϻ can be at beginning or middle, it de‑pend of the position of the breathing.
{Di‑gamma Ϝ {also called ϜΑΥ : vau/vaw} is V be‑cause W was Υ/ΟΥ [u/w] from Phoenician 𐤅 [u], Ϝ don't share shape and sound with Υ / 𐤅, after some‑time Υ be‑came later [y] and [i] in Modern‑Greek ; Pamphylian Digamma/Wau/Waw Ͷ is [w], also Ϝ [v] be‑came Latin F [f], V & F are labio‑dental sound and can be con‑fused, when W & F have nothing in com‑mon, so Latin letter F sound [f] come from Ancient‑Greek letter Ϝ sound [v]...}.
In the French pre‑cise book of Ancient‑Greek "Le Grand Bailly" or "Abrégé Bailly" breathing (spirit in French) are re‑pre‑sented in the words and in the de‑finition, in [RAC : racine/root] Section is ad‑ded the original word with Di‑gamma Ϝ or Sigma/San Σ/Ϻ. In older editions of "Le Grand Bailly" or "Abrégé Bailly", the "Table of roots" (which is no longer pre‑sent in the new editions) speci‑fies the list of roots using Di‑gamma Ϝ [v] & Sigma/San Σ/Ϻ [ʃ/s], yet in Wikipedia English or French, no one mention that the "Smooth breathing" and "Rough breathing" was used for Di‑gamma Ϝ & Sigma/San Σ/Ϻ removing, why ??? They talk only about a‑spired H (no one can make a‑spired H be‑fore a RHO, it's im‑possible), so it's wrong... Also In Wiktionary page for Ancient‑Greek words using breathing, the W/V or S/SH is never mentioned in "Archaic pro‑nunciation", like for ex‑ample :
{I don't use ac‑cent acute / grave in Ancient‑Greek words be‑cause at that time they didn't ex‑ist, also writing Ancient‑Greek word in minuscule is an error, be‑cause at that epoch only capital script with‑out ac‑cent ex‑isted, minuscule should be used only for Modern‑Greek in your Wiktionary or Wikipedia...}. Gmazdên ( talk) 12:09, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
This article is a little confusing. The section on Greek suggests that the letter was obsolete by classical times, surviving longer in the Aeolian dialect (but the article doesn't say how long. Could somebody add a date, or at least a century, when this dialect lost the letter)?
The lede says "In modern print, a distinction is made between the letter in its original alphabetic role as a consonant sign... and the numeric symbol." Why does modern print typeset a letter which has not been used in over 2000 years? The section on glyph development mentions the development in the "ninth and tenth century", and the "glyph confusion" section talks about medieval use-- huh? The section on "early handwriting" could also use some dates (does "early" mean 500 BC or 500 AD?), and a mention of whether it's the letter or the numeral that's being discussed. Geoffrey.landis ( talk) 15:13, 31 March 2016 (UTC)
At the very end of the "Numeral" section, the text currently reads: "although in practice ΣΤ΄ is much more often." This wording should be changed in one of two possible ways. Either (1) change it by inserting the word "found": "although in practice ΣΤ΄ is found much more often.", or (2) change it by replacing the word "often" with the word "common": "although in practice ΣΤ΄ is much more common." 72.42.152.105 ( talk) 13:44, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
Ϝ is sometimes used to represent the digamma function, though the Latin letter F (which is nearly identical) is usually substituted. A hypothetical particle Ϝ speculated to be implicated in the 750 GeV diphoton excess, now known to be simply a statistical anomaly 172.117.237.102 ( talk) 17:39, 19 February 2023 (UTC)
The image of "A fragment of Papyrus 115" names "616" as the Number of the Beast - this is obviously a typo. 198.109.220.243 ( talk) 00:55, 18 September 2023 (UTC)