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The following club titles had to be removed from his club title collection:
Reason:
He only debuted (? - English as she is spoke) 4th September 1982 for the club. I know he was into close co-operation with god, miracles, etc., but the retrospective winning of titles would take this concept too far, I suppose.
Oalexander-En 06:21, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
Didn't FIFA steped back at the decision of allowing the Argentina national team to retire the shirt number 10? Googling for ["camisa 10" argentina fifa] gives some insight. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Abu badali ( talk • contribs) 12:26, 31 March 2004 (UTC)
I've decided to move Maradona cheating in the first para to the later parts. It shouldn't be in the first para at least -- it makes one think he is a habitual cheat, and how such a "cheat" can be such a good player.
Yes he did use his hand, but it's as much the fault of the referee for missing it. I think it's unfair to call Maradona a cheat just because he hooked the ball in once with his hand (in a fraction of a second, one can call it a reaction). Anyway I'll put the general reactions to that goal in. Mandel 12:22, Aug 2, 2004 (UTC)
I think the murder example is out of range. What absolute nonsense, how can it be the referee's fault that he used his hand? His cheating was much more than that single incident, his use of performance enhancing drugs was cheating for instance. Bob Palin 15:48, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Zico took those while they were perfectly legal in football, having no law to prohibit its use at the time. Dont try to pollute the carrer of Brazils 2nd best player ever.
When argumenting against using video to aid referees, FIFA has repeatedly stated that referees are "the 23rd player, whose errors are a part of the game". Therefore, when players fake a fault (and they do in every single game), they are just following an implicit rule: if you can fool the referee, then it's legal. Maradona did only that when he scored with his hand, as almost any player would do if given the chance to help their national teams win. So, my English friends, stop blaming Diego and learn to lose a game with some dignity... [agus] 03:17, 11 December 2005
-- England did lose the game with some dignity; it was Argentinian dignity that was forfeited, and by Diego. He himself admitted that a less 'honest' defence ("They are probably the noblest in the world," [2]) than the English would have fouled him en route to the goal.
I don't care what fifa has said diving, using your hand ect is not ok as long as you manage to fool the referee. To me a player who uses his hand like maradonna did is a cheat.
If you look at footage from behind the goal and slow it down you'll see that it was in fact an own goal by Fenwick and Maradona himself didn't actually score it. 00:37, 25 June 2007 (UTC) Jørgen Mykland 10:07 June 25 2007.
Guys, cut it out with the back-and-forth changes.
What do we have this Talk Pages for? I think it's all times.
What does the rest think? -- Marianocecowski 07:57, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
This argument is nonsense. Both "all time" and "all times" are correct. It's just a matter of taste. You can use "time" to refer to time in general or "times" to refer to periods of time, but, all in all, it makes no difference to the content of the sentence. Stop the pseudolinguistics trash talk.
I visited this site in hope of intellectual discussions on one of sports greatest entertainers and instead I get Mr Plain(aptly named), the resident spelling and grammer checker.
"All times" isn't correct in the context of "one of the best players of all times" - this simply doesn't mean anything. As with many things in English there is no particular logic to it and it's just the way it is. And, given that this is an encyclopedia it's probably best if things are written correctly at all times (there it is correct).
Video evidence of Pele's greatest plays shows that he usually had the time to "settle" the ball to suit his best available move (head, left foot, etc), whilst Maradona, on first receiving the ball, was immediately surrounded by defenders. Nobody will deny the relative athleticism and defending might of Italian calcio circa 1987 when compared to the Brazilian league in the 1960s, and this can be sustained by objective evidence (analyzing video, counting average goals per match, comparing tactics or measuring the amount the ball spends in the midfield, among others).
This is not meant to automatically create a case for Maradona being "greater" than Pele. elpincha 21:38, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Please, let's forgo the gushing praise. He was an excellent footballer, as agreed by many as the greatest ever.
When will you people understand that you cant compare bananas and oranges? They are different (i.e. different times, different defenses, but also different attacks, and different laws of the game). Perhaps what bothers our 'hermanos' is that Pelé has had a more succeful carrer inside as well as outside the picth.
Maradona was the better player by far because he could do better things against better teams. Look at the 2nd goal he scored against england in 1986. That was brilliant. Pele could rely on his teammates to pass the ball with him far enough to get close to the goal. Maradona had hardly any, he created more goals by himself properly then pele. therefore he is the bettter.-- Alexstorer 22:18, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
In many Spanish-language publications Maradona is known as "El Pibe". For God's sake, don't delete that part of the article just because you think it's just Carlos Valderrama's nickname. "Pibe" is a frequently used nickname which means "boy" or "kid". There are many soccer players who are nicknamed that way, not just Valderrama. See also RAE. Usual. Resultado de Listado de Usual ( Real Academia Española dictionary entry on "pibe"). 2004-12-29T22:45Z June 29, 2005 06:37 (UTC)
Guys, I never heard about this agreement Diego had with FIFA to be allowed to play in the 94 WC despite being on "Weight Loss Drugs". Does anybody have a source? Otherwise, I'd rather remove that part or at least replace it with something less conspirational-sounding.
-- Sebastian Kessel 16:19, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
A brilliant creation IMO. If it is in actual use, it could be mentioned right below the Church of Maradona stuff. And btw, I think most of us have seen the video segments on the Church, but is there any other source on its existence? On the Internet? elpincha 16:00, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
I just rv'd the other image because it doesn't show him as a player. Let's get a free player image... the other one was just too ugly. :)
Perhaps something can be mentioned about the Summit of the Americas and Diego's resistance to Bush? Maybe about his political views if there's enough info about it. [3]
Irrelevant methinks. The article becomes heavy and less readable when everybody adds his/her pet detail on Diego (eg the Bucaram interview). For the sake or readability, propose not to keep. elpincha 08:08, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
Probably it was invented way before. The article doesn't claim Maradona invented it either. -- Mariano( t/ c) 13:00, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
Shouldn't the position be "deep-lying forward"? The informal "Hole" term can be explained within the article or in Football (soccer) positions, but the datasheet should be more technical, I think. ironcito 18:58, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
This statement was reverted as POV
to this version:
Not regarding which one is more adecueated for an encyclopedic article, the first one is neither POV nor false. At the same time, the opening paragraph of Pelé's article states he is "thought by many to be the finest player of all time. Often considered the complete attacking player, he was completely two-footed, a prolific finisher, exceptional at dribbling and passing, and was a remarkably good tackler for a forward. He was also famed for his speed and kicking strength." which I consider POV, and non encyclopedic.
The question is, if both are considered by a lot of people (and not only in their own country) to be the best player of all times, why do we have this unbalance in the Wikipedia? This is clearly not neutral, and should be revised. Mariano( t/ c) 07:59, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
A recent research proved Diego Maradona has Croatian ancestries. Check it on the Internet [4] [in Spanish]. Mxcatania 17:01, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
OK. Let me posit the following. To be considered an X-Argentine, a person should comply with at least one of the following (using 2nd person for convenience only):
Since Diego complies with none of the above for X=Croatia and all N>0, I hereby declare him not a Cro-Arg, and happily proceed to the main page to delete the reference. Buenas tardes. elpincha 05:20, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
Mxcatania, even if he is completely right or completely wrong, is a diligent and valuable contributor to Wikipedia. Kudos to him, and please, Wikipedians, appreciate the hard work of Mxcatania and the many like him who make WP the place that it is. Incidentally, my two cents are that Maradona being of Croatian ancestry would at least warrant a mention in his WP page...but I leave that to the Argentines and the football experts. Paul 05:48, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Maradona does indeed have Croatian roots. One of his grandmothers was a Dalmatian Croat. In fact, one of his sisters was named Dalma because of this. But in my opinion, this does not make him Croatian-Argentine. <rant> I don't know why this is so common on wikipedia, that is people from a country trying to get that country linked to something. Canadians seems to be the worst, in so many articles there is some obscure reference to Cananda. </rant> Furpee 09:47, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Sorry my fellow Equatorians, but I just deleted the information about his "talks" to play for Barcelona in Ecuador. This is highly irrelevant, as any good player is always "in talks" to play for any particular team. Moreover in Maradona's case, and specially when he was without a club at the end of his career. Besides, I think that information may be known only in Ecuador. Nobody remembers that speculative agreement (and with a reason). On the other hand, I would have removed the mention of Esteban Laureano Maradona, because it is also completely irrelevant: the comparison has been made only for the coincidence of surnames, but it never was more than a side comment. E. L. Maradona has nothing to do in a Diego Maradona page. But I left it to be discussed. Please, excuse my poor english. Nahuel
His maternal great-grandfather, Mateo Kariolic, was born in Korcula, Croatia and emigrated to Argentina, where Maradona's grandmother, Salvadora, was born...
Assuming Mateo married an Argentine woman, Maradona would be at least 1/8 Croatian
Besides Croatian, Maradona is of mostly Spanish descent, I guess
He named his daughter Dalma, and people assume it's because of his Dalmatian heritage... which would mean that he knows/cares about his Croatian roots
(Dalmatia is a province in Croatia, where Korcula is located)
Should this be mentioned, anyone thinks we should add that
"he is of mostly Spanish origins with some distant Croatian roots"
Marco Polo is one of his ancestor, through his Croatian connection... Mateo Kariolic's father Gaspar Polic was a descendant of Marco Polo (Marco Polo was also born in Korcula, Croatia, and his original name was supposedly Marko Polic)
These things are usually mentioned on other's people articles...
You people should go on Keanu Reeves, George Bush's, Cher's, Val Kilmer's and whoever else's page and see that they're ethnic backgrounds are mentioned
Anyone in the USA with just 1/8 native american blood, has it mentioned on his page, Johnny Depp...
Argentina's president Nestor Kirchner's, chilean-born mother Marija Ostojic is of Croatian origin...
On Che Guevara page it mentions his Irish roots, it has an whole paragraph on it, mentioning his forebears and where they came from
Although a lot of Irish are saying his grandmother emigrated from Ireland, (which is a lot of balogni), his great-great grandfather did... which makes him 16%... it's probably even less than that, his great grandfather was born in 1817 and the original forebearer was born in 1715, so probably more like 64%, Maradona is 8% Croatian
Segundo Binayán, Maradona seria descendente do explorador por linha materna. A avó do ex-jogador era Salvadora Cariolichi, que, por sua vez, era neta de Mateus Cariolichi. Este croata, tetravô do astro teria desembarcado na Argentina no fim do século XIX.
Mateus, por sua vez, era descendente da família Polich, que são conhecidos por serem descendentes de Marco Polo. O sobrenome "Polich", na verdade, seria uma corruptela croata de "Polo".
WHO cares about Maradona being 1/8 Croatian? Thats so ridiculous .. Besides noone really knows, if that is really true - not even Maradona i bet ...
and don't forget Adam and Eve... ;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.164.240.254 ( talk) 18:36, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 |
The following club titles had to be removed from his club title collection:
Reason:
He only debuted (? - English as she is spoke) 4th September 1982 for the club. I know he was into close co-operation with god, miracles, etc., but the retrospective winning of titles would take this concept too far, I suppose.
Oalexander-En 06:21, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
Didn't FIFA steped back at the decision of allowing the Argentina national team to retire the shirt number 10? Googling for ["camisa 10" argentina fifa] gives some insight. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Abu badali ( talk • contribs) 12:26, 31 March 2004 (UTC)
I've decided to move Maradona cheating in the first para to the later parts. It shouldn't be in the first para at least -- it makes one think he is a habitual cheat, and how such a "cheat" can be such a good player.
Yes he did use his hand, but it's as much the fault of the referee for missing it. I think it's unfair to call Maradona a cheat just because he hooked the ball in once with his hand (in a fraction of a second, one can call it a reaction). Anyway I'll put the general reactions to that goal in. Mandel 12:22, Aug 2, 2004 (UTC)
I think the murder example is out of range. What absolute nonsense, how can it be the referee's fault that he used his hand? His cheating was much more than that single incident, his use of performance enhancing drugs was cheating for instance. Bob Palin 15:48, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Zico took those while they were perfectly legal in football, having no law to prohibit its use at the time. Dont try to pollute the carrer of Brazils 2nd best player ever.
When argumenting against using video to aid referees, FIFA has repeatedly stated that referees are "the 23rd player, whose errors are a part of the game". Therefore, when players fake a fault (and they do in every single game), they are just following an implicit rule: if you can fool the referee, then it's legal. Maradona did only that when he scored with his hand, as almost any player would do if given the chance to help their national teams win. So, my English friends, stop blaming Diego and learn to lose a game with some dignity... [agus] 03:17, 11 December 2005
-- England did lose the game with some dignity; it was Argentinian dignity that was forfeited, and by Diego. He himself admitted that a less 'honest' defence ("They are probably the noblest in the world," [2]) than the English would have fouled him en route to the goal.
I don't care what fifa has said diving, using your hand ect is not ok as long as you manage to fool the referee. To me a player who uses his hand like maradonna did is a cheat.
If you look at footage from behind the goal and slow it down you'll see that it was in fact an own goal by Fenwick and Maradona himself didn't actually score it. 00:37, 25 June 2007 (UTC) Jørgen Mykland 10:07 June 25 2007.
Guys, cut it out with the back-and-forth changes.
What do we have this Talk Pages for? I think it's all times.
What does the rest think? -- Marianocecowski 07:57, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
This argument is nonsense. Both "all time" and "all times" are correct. It's just a matter of taste. You can use "time" to refer to time in general or "times" to refer to periods of time, but, all in all, it makes no difference to the content of the sentence. Stop the pseudolinguistics trash talk.
I visited this site in hope of intellectual discussions on one of sports greatest entertainers and instead I get Mr Plain(aptly named), the resident spelling and grammer checker.
"All times" isn't correct in the context of "one of the best players of all times" - this simply doesn't mean anything. As with many things in English there is no particular logic to it and it's just the way it is. And, given that this is an encyclopedia it's probably best if things are written correctly at all times (there it is correct).
Video evidence of Pele's greatest plays shows that he usually had the time to "settle" the ball to suit his best available move (head, left foot, etc), whilst Maradona, on first receiving the ball, was immediately surrounded by defenders. Nobody will deny the relative athleticism and defending might of Italian calcio circa 1987 when compared to the Brazilian league in the 1960s, and this can be sustained by objective evidence (analyzing video, counting average goals per match, comparing tactics or measuring the amount the ball spends in the midfield, among others).
This is not meant to automatically create a case for Maradona being "greater" than Pele. elpincha 21:38, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Please, let's forgo the gushing praise. He was an excellent footballer, as agreed by many as the greatest ever.
When will you people understand that you cant compare bananas and oranges? They are different (i.e. different times, different defenses, but also different attacks, and different laws of the game). Perhaps what bothers our 'hermanos' is that Pelé has had a more succeful carrer inside as well as outside the picth.
Maradona was the better player by far because he could do better things against better teams. Look at the 2nd goal he scored against england in 1986. That was brilliant. Pele could rely on his teammates to pass the ball with him far enough to get close to the goal. Maradona had hardly any, he created more goals by himself properly then pele. therefore he is the bettter.-- Alexstorer 22:18, 8 January 2006 (UTC)
In many Spanish-language publications Maradona is known as "El Pibe". For God's sake, don't delete that part of the article just because you think it's just Carlos Valderrama's nickname. "Pibe" is a frequently used nickname which means "boy" or "kid". There are many soccer players who are nicknamed that way, not just Valderrama. See also RAE. Usual. Resultado de Listado de Usual ( Real Academia Española dictionary entry on "pibe"). 2004-12-29T22:45Z June 29, 2005 06:37 (UTC)
Guys, I never heard about this agreement Diego had with FIFA to be allowed to play in the 94 WC despite being on "Weight Loss Drugs". Does anybody have a source? Otherwise, I'd rather remove that part or at least replace it with something less conspirational-sounding.
-- Sebastian Kessel 16:19, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
A brilliant creation IMO. If it is in actual use, it could be mentioned right below the Church of Maradona stuff. And btw, I think most of us have seen the video segments on the Church, but is there any other source on its existence? On the Internet? elpincha 16:00, 22 September 2005 (UTC)
I just rv'd the other image because it doesn't show him as a player. Let's get a free player image... the other one was just too ugly. :)
Perhaps something can be mentioned about the Summit of the Americas and Diego's resistance to Bush? Maybe about his political views if there's enough info about it. [3]
Irrelevant methinks. The article becomes heavy and less readable when everybody adds his/her pet detail on Diego (eg the Bucaram interview). For the sake or readability, propose not to keep. elpincha 08:08, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
Probably it was invented way before. The article doesn't claim Maradona invented it either. -- Mariano( t/ c) 13:00, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
Shouldn't the position be "deep-lying forward"? The informal "Hole" term can be explained within the article or in Football (soccer) positions, but the datasheet should be more technical, I think. ironcito 18:58, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
This statement was reverted as POV
to this version:
Not regarding which one is more adecueated for an encyclopedic article, the first one is neither POV nor false. At the same time, the opening paragraph of Pelé's article states he is "thought by many to be the finest player of all time. Often considered the complete attacking player, he was completely two-footed, a prolific finisher, exceptional at dribbling and passing, and was a remarkably good tackler for a forward. He was also famed for his speed and kicking strength." which I consider POV, and non encyclopedic.
The question is, if both are considered by a lot of people (and not only in their own country) to be the best player of all times, why do we have this unbalance in the Wikipedia? This is clearly not neutral, and should be revised. Mariano( t/ c) 07:59, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
A recent research proved Diego Maradona has Croatian ancestries. Check it on the Internet [4] [in Spanish]. Mxcatania 17:01, 20 March 2006 (UTC)
OK. Let me posit the following. To be considered an X-Argentine, a person should comply with at least one of the following (using 2nd person for convenience only):
Since Diego complies with none of the above for X=Croatia and all N>0, I hereby declare him not a Cro-Arg, and happily proceed to the main page to delete the reference. Buenas tardes. elpincha 05:20, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
Mxcatania, even if he is completely right or completely wrong, is a diligent and valuable contributor to Wikipedia. Kudos to him, and please, Wikipedians, appreciate the hard work of Mxcatania and the many like him who make WP the place that it is. Incidentally, my two cents are that Maradona being of Croatian ancestry would at least warrant a mention in his WP page...but I leave that to the Argentines and the football experts. Paul 05:48, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Maradona does indeed have Croatian roots. One of his grandmothers was a Dalmatian Croat. In fact, one of his sisters was named Dalma because of this. But in my opinion, this does not make him Croatian-Argentine. <rant> I don't know why this is so common on wikipedia, that is people from a country trying to get that country linked to something. Canadians seems to be the worst, in so many articles there is some obscure reference to Cananda. </rant> Furpee 09:47, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
Sorry my fellow Equatorians, but I just deleted the information about his "talks" to play for Barcelona in Ecuador. This is highly irrelevant, as any good player is always "in talks" to play for any particular team. Moreover in Maradona's case, and specially when he was without a club at the end of his career. Besides, I think that information may be known only in Ecuador. Nobody remembers that speculative agreement (and with a reason). On the other hand, I would have removed the mention of Esteban Laureano Maradona, because it is also completely irrelevant: the comparison has been made only for the coincidence of surnames, but it never was more than a side comment. E. L. Maradona has nothing to do in a Diego Maradona page. But I left it to be discussed. Please, excuse my poor english. Nahuel
His maternal great-grandfather, Mateo Kariolic, was born in Korcula, Croatia and emigrated to Argentina, where Maradona's grandmother, Salvadora, was born...
Assuming Mateo married an Argentine woman, Maradona would be at least 1/8 Croatian
Besides Croatian, Maradona is of mostly Spanish descent, I guess
He named his daughter Dalma, and people assume it's because of his Dalmatian heritage... which would mean that he knows/cares about his Croatian roots
(Dalmatia is a province in Croatia, where Korcula is located)
Should this be mentioned, anyone thinks we should add that
"he is of mostly Spanish origins with some distant Croatian roots"
Marco Polo is one of his ancestor, through his Croatian connection... Mateo Kariolic's father Gaspar Polic was a descendant of Marco Polo (Marco Polo was also born in Korcula, Croatia, and his original name was supposedly Marko Polic)
These things are usually mentioned on other's people articles...
You people should go on Keanu Reeves, George Bush's, Cher's, Val Kilmer's and whoever else's page and see that they're ethnic backgrounds are mentioned
Anyone in the USA with just 1/8 native american blood, has it mentioned on his page, Johnny Depp...
Argentina's president Nestor Kirchner's, chilean-born mother Marija Ostojic is of Croatian origin...
On Che Guevara page it mentions his Irish roots, it has an whole paragraph on it, mentioning his forebears and where they came from
Although a lot of Irish are saying his grandmother emigrated from Ireland, (which is a lot of balogni), his great-great grandfather did... which makes him 16%... it's probably even less than that, his great grandfather was born in 1817 and the original forebearer was born in 1715, so probably more like 64%, Maradona is 8% Croatian
Segundo Binayán, Maradona seria descendente do explorador por linha materna. A avó do ex-jogador era Salvadora Cariolichi, que, por sua vez, era neta de Mateus Cariolichi. Este croata, tetravô do astro teria desembarcado na Argentina no fim do século XIX.
Mateus, por sua vez, era descendente da família Polich, que são conhecidos por serem descendentes de Marco Polo. O sobrenome "Polich", na verdade, seria uma corruptela croata de "Polo".
WHO cares about Maradona being 1/8 Croatian? Thats so ridiculous .. Besides noone really knows, if that is really true - not even Maradona i bet ...
and don't forget Adam and Eve... ;) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.164.240.254 ( talk) 18:36, 14 July 2008 (UTC)