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The result of the proposal was} move.
Anthony Appleyard (
talk)
16:57, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
die tageszeitung → Die Tageszeitung — Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (trademarks) ("Trademarks rendered without any capitals are always capitalized.") — — AjaxSmack 23:53, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
As an aside, I would add that German grammatical rules also call for the word "Tageszeitung" to always be capitalised but the German Wikipedia article on this paper is also at the lowercase version. — AjaxSmack 23:59, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.I can address the iPhone case, as one who was present and working in Requested Moves during the time the current guideline was being worked out. We decided that cases such as eBay and iPhone were distinct in that the capitalization is a cue to pronunciation. These cases are more similar to CamelCase than they are to adidas, thirtysomething, k.d. lang or die tageszeitung, where the capitalization (or lack thereof) is not an aid to pronunciation, but rather a mark with which to distinguish a brand. The general agreement I remember many editors reaching was that it's not part of an encyclopedia's job to assist with brand management.
I hope this information is helpful. Now that I've commented here and betrayed a clear bias, I'm not going to close this request, so we'll see what someone else decides. - GTBacchus( talk) 01:01, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
1) Applicability of style guidelines: I've previously pointed out that WP:MOSTM only discusses the capitalization of trademarks "wherever they occur in a sentence". Since we are discussing the capitalization of the article title, the applicable style guideline would not be WP:MOSTM, but Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Article titles, which states: "The initial letter of a title is capitalized (except in very rare cases, such as eBay). Otherwise, capital letters are used only where implied by normal capitalization rules (Funding of UNESCO projects, not Funding of UNESCO Projects)." I hold that case of die tageszeitung is similar to that of eBay, however, guidelines can only make general suggestions and are often insufficient to deal with a particular case; and this is a very particular case. Therefore we also have such guidelines as Wikipedia:Ignore all rules and Wikipedia:Use common sense. We are not simply capitalizing the article title because some guideline mandates that. If you want to argue for this, you would have to make an argument that appeals to common sense.
2) Common sense To discuss, whether commons sense would argue in favour of capitalization in this case or not, at least a rudimentary knowledge of the German language is required. First, unlike craiglist or addidas, which are ONLY proper names, Tageszeitung is a regular noun in German. It simply means (daily) newspaper. Secondly, in German ALL nouns are capitalized, not only prober nouns. Therefore, the sentence: Die Tageszeitung berichtete, dass... would be translated as: The newspaper reported that.... The sentence: Wie die tageszeitung berichtete... would be translated: as As 'die tageszeitung' reported..." Of course, this might be confusing for an English reader who does not have a rudimentary knowledge of the German language. In English you would recognize a capitalized word as a proper noun. In German however, you would have to write tageszeitung uncapitalized, if you want to make it recognizable as a prober noun, since Tageszeitung also is a regular noun and in German regular nouns are capitalized. I think, I can be quite sure that such a particular case was not considered when the style guidelines were written.
If you do an internet search for "die tageszeitung" or "Die Tageszeitung", you will get some results that are about the TAZ, and some results that are about any other newspaper, simply because Tageszeitung means newspaper in German. On the German Wikipedia, you can find two articles about 'tageszeitung'. One, de:Tageszeitung corresponds to the English article Newspaper. The other, de:die tageszeitung corresponds to this article. There is an otheruses-template in the first article that links to the second. That said, I don't think that we need to differ from the German version of the article title here. Zara1709 ( talk) 14:40, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
I removed the "Pedophilia controversy" section, since it was only sourced to a single source, an article co-written by de:Jan Fleischhauer, a known conservative author, who has a record of attacking "leftist" media. A section which might be potentially defaming such as this one should rely on multiple sources. I cannot find a single source though that confirms the SPIEGEL article and the article itself does not cite anything at all. Nor was this ever discussed or included in the de-wiki article about the subject. Per WP:V#Exceptional claims require exceptional sources something that controversial and exceptional needs exceptional sources and a single article in forty years does not meet this requirement. If someone can find them, please re-add the section using those sources. Regards So Why 10:51, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
It should be added that the TAZ ist considered extrem left-wing by many critics. It's stirring up hatred against Germany ( http://www.taz.de/!75707/), authors are hoping conservatives to be dead ( http://europenews.dk/de/node/61010) and in many forums people are talking about the extremism in these newspaper.-- 31.17.92.168 ( talk) 17:15, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
What should be the displayed title of the article? Uppercase or lowercase?-- Oneiros ( talk) 23:19, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
A couple decades or so ago, taz and The Nation formed a sort of alliance (it might have inclded a liberal French newspaper or magazine as well). The details would be of interest. 211.225.34.156 ( talk) 13:11, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
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I just like to share as somebody who speaks and reads German, that the entry, whilst not wrong, would require further updating and adding in of information. A very good guide in terms as to what else could and should be added into the English language Wilkipedia is the German Wikipedia entry here https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Tageszeitung. Thank you. KxLondon ( talk) 14:07, 6 August 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Die Tageszeitung article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The result of the proposal was} move.
Anthony Appleyard (
talk)
16:57, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
die tageszeitung → Die Tageszeitung — Per Wikipedia:Manual of Style (trademarks) ("Trademarks rendered without any capitals are always capitalized.") — — AjaxSmack 23:53, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
As an aside, I would add that German grammatical rules also call for the word "Tageszeitung" to always be capitalised but the German Wikipedia article on this paper is also at the lowercase version. — AjaxSmack 23:59, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's naming conventions.I can address the iPhone case, as one who was present and working in Requested Moves during the time the current guideline was being worked out. We decided that cases such as eBay and iPhone were distinct in that the capitalization is a cue to pronunciation. These cases are more similar to CamelCase than they are to adidas, thirtysomething, k.d. lang or die tageszeitung, where the capitalization (or lack thereof) is not an aid to pronunciation, but rather a mark with which to distinguish a brand. The general agreement I remember many editors reaching was that it's not part of an encyclopedia's job to assist with brand management.
I hope this information is helpful. Now that I've commented here and betrayed a clear bias, I'm not going to close this request, so we'll see what someone else decides. - GTBacchus( talk) 01:01, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
1) Applicability of style guidelines: I've previously pointed out that WP:MOSTM only discusses the capitalization of trademarks "wherever they occur in a sentence". Since we are discussing the capitalization of the article title, the applicable style guideline would not be WP:MOSTM, but Wikipedia:Manual of Style#Article titles, which states: "The initial letter of a title is capitalized (except in very rare cases, such as eBay). Otherwise, capital letters are used only where implied by normal capitalization rules (Funding of UNESCO projects, not Funding of UNESCO Projects)." I hold that case of die tageszeitung is similar to that of eBay, however, guidelines can only make general suggestions and are often insufficient to deal with a particular case; and this is a very particular case. Therefore we also have such guidelines as Wikipedia:Ignore all rules and Wikipedia:Use common sense. We are not simply capitalizing the article title because some guideline mandates that. If you want to argue for this, you would have to make an argument that appeals to common sense.
2) Common sense To discuss, whether commons sense would argue in favour of capitalization in this case or not, at least a rudimentary knowledge of the German language is required. First, unlike craiglist or addidas, which are ONLY proper names, Tageszeitung is a regular noun in German. It simply means (daily) newspaper. Secondly, in German ALL nouns are capitalized, not only prober nouns. Therefore, the sentence: Die Tageszeitung berichtete, dass... would be translated as: The newspaper reported that.... The sentence: Wie die tageszeitung berichtete... would be translated: as As 'die tageszeitung' reported..." Of course, this might be confusing for an English reader who does not have a rudimentary knowledge of the German language. In English you would recognize a capitalized word as a proper noun. In German however, you would have to write tageszeitung uncapitalized, if you want to make it recognizable as a prober noun, since Tageszeitung also is a regular noun and in German regular nouns are capitalized. I think, I can be quite sure that such a particular case was not considered when the style guidelines were written.
If you do an internet search for "die tageszeitung" or "Die Tageszeitung", you will get some results that are about the TAZ, and some results that are about any other newspaper, simply because Tageszeitung means newspaper in German. On the German Wikipedia, you can find two articles about 'tageszeitung'. One, de:Tageszeitung corresponds to the English article Newspaper. The other, de:die tageszeitung corresponds to this article. There is an otheruses-template in the first article that links to the second. That said, I don't think that we need to differ from the German version of the article title here. Zara1709 ( talk) 14:40, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
I removed the "Pedophilia controversy" section, since it was only sourced to a single source, an article co-written by de:Jan Fleischhauer, a known conservative author, who has a record of attacking "leftist" media. A section which might be potentially defaming such as this one should rely on multiple sources. I cannot find a single source though that confirms the SPIEGEL article and the article itself does not cite anything at all. Nor was this ever discussed or included in the de-wiki article about the subject. Per WP:V#Exceptional claims require exceptional sources something that controversial and exceptional needs exceptional sources and a single article in forty years does not meet this requirement. If someone can find them, please re-add the section using those sources. Regards So Why 10:51, 8 July 2011 (UTC)
It should be added that the TAZ ist considered extrem left-wing by many critics. It's stirring up hatred against Germany ( http://www.taz.de/!75707/), authors are hoping conservatives to be dead ( http://europenews.dk/de/node/61010) and in many forums people are talking about the extremism in these newspaper.-- 31.17.92.168 ( talk) 17:15, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
What should be the displayed title of the article? Uppercase or lowercase?-- Oneiros ( talk) 23:19, 18 March 2014 (UTC)
A couple decades or so ago, taz and The Nation formed a sort of alliance (it might have inclded a liberal French newspaper or magazine as well). The details would be of interest. 211.225.34.156 ( talk) 13:11, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Die Tageszeitung. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:59, 10 September 2017 (UTC)
I just like to share as somebody who speaks and reads German, that the entry, whilst not wrong, would require further updating and adding in of information. A very good guide in terms as to what else could and should be added into the English language Wilkipedia is the German Wikipedia entry here https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Tageszeitung. Thank you. KxLondon ( talk) 14:07, 6 August 2022 (UTC)