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Please add your name to any of these tasks that you want to take on.-- Abarratt ( talk) 21:33, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
~to be completed at a later date -- Abarratt ( talk) 02:53, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Forerunners
Classic Dictator Novels
Others I think this is done for now...-- Abarratt ( talk) 04:08, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
I really don't know how to do this...-- Abarratt ( talk) 04:16, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm thinking a lot of issues are going to come up since we're very new to wikipedia..
1) Make headings within headings? As an example, how could I make "introduction and history" as subsections of my "to do" heading on this page??? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Abarratt (
talk •
contribs)
23:13, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
2) So I used [ tool]to generate a citation but the book The Cambridge Companion to the Latin American Novel is not written by Efrain Kristal but edited by him/her. How do I change this? The chapter in question is written by John King.-- Abarratt ( talk) 04:04, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Just curious what everyone thinks should be included under Latin America. Should we be discussing Caribbean authors? -- Abarratt ( talk) 04:42, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
To assist WikiProject Murder Madness and Mayhem in its drive to bring this article to Featured status, a number of experienced editors from the FA-Team have volunteered their editing services to the project. To see which editors are watching this article, click here.
You can contact a specific editor directly by leaving a message on their talk page, or more generally by posting a message here. To do this, click the '+' tab at the top of the page and enter a subject title, and your message, in the editing windows that will appear. Don't forget to finish off by typing four tildes (~~~~) to automatically add your signature; you need to be logged in for this to work properly.
We're all really enthusiastic about this project, and looking forward to working with you. All the best, The FA-Team 11:17, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
"Postmodern Latina writers of the 1980s, such as Ana Castillo and Giannina Braschi challenge the structure of the dictator novel. For example, in Giannina Braschi's mock diary, "The Intimate Diary of Solitude" (published in Empire of Dreams), the narrator of the Latin American Boom is shot by a lonely make-up artist who works at Macy's and despises the commercialization of her solitude."
Somehow while editing our references page seems to have disappeared but it's still there when we click 'edit'. What has happened???-- Abarratt ( talk) 18:59, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
This section really needs some help. I'm trying to fill in this section with knowledge from a few books but it isn't enough to give this section justice. I'm hoping someone with more expertise can edit this section or provide some advice. Particularly, I'm not sure which authors to name as key representatives of the modernist novel in Latin America. These are the few that were previously on the page Rosario Castellanos, David Vinas, Antonio de Benedetto, Yolanda Oreamundo, Salvador Garendia, and Jacques Stephan Alexis, as well as established writers Agustín Yáñez, Juan Rulfo, and Leopoldo Marechal. -- Abarratt ( talk) 18:35, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone have advice on what we need to do to get this article up to B-Class status? ≈ Juliemcd ( talk) 21:28, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm moving these articles from "Further Reading" to here. They should actually be cited in the article itself.
-- jbmurray ( talk| contribs) 09:23, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Guys, there's still a problem with focus in this article. Too often it tries to cover the entirety of the Boom or even the entirety of Latin American literature. This is an article about the dictator novel, however, and it should references those things only in so far as they are relevant to the dictator novel. So I've cut the section on magical realism, because it didn't establish any links to the topic in hand. For what it's worth, and so you don't feel it's lost altogether, I'm putting it here. But honestly I don't see why this material should be in the article.
And don't be despondent about such a cut. Rather you should think "Hey, we don't have to do all that!" "All we have to do is focus on the dictator novel!"
If this doesn't make sense, just ask.
Meanwhile, over on I, the Supreme they've dug out a bunch of good sources directly on the dictator novel, most of which are online. I recommend you check them out!
OK, here's the cut section...
-- jbmurray ( talk| contribs) 06:21, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
And here's some more stuff I've cut. Again, you can always undo my edits. But I do think you need to focus, and to write about other stuff only in so far as it helps us understand the dictator novel.
-- jbmurray ( talk| contribs) 06:28, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
I just wanted to thank the editors for their useful contributions to this article! Writing an article on a genre is very difficult - their desire to undertake that challenge should be commended. That said, let me offer some advice. When defining and explaining a genre, it is best to do so through abstraction and generality rather than through particular examples. For example, if I wanted to define the "science fiction novel", I could list Philip K. Dick, Ursula LeGuin, Arthur C. Clarke, etc. but the works of these writers are different in a lot of ways. The question the article on the science fiction novel would need to answer is: How are their science fiction novels the same? That is what this article needs to answer about the "dictator novel". What are the characteristics of a dictator novel? I think that by expanding the "Style and themes" section and thinking about the "what are the characteristics of a dictator novel" question while doing research, it will be easier to write this page. Of course, not all scholars are going to agree on the definition, but that is fine - you can present competing definitions here (see WP:NPOV). For someone unfamiliar with the "dictator novel", a list of novels is less helpful than a general description. The list gives them a place to go after they have absorbed the general definition. I hope that this was helpful! Awadewit ( talk) 17:23, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Should we include Cortázar's Libro de Manuel?-- Abarratt ( talk) 22:59, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
According to Raymond Leslie Williams, novels of exile are separate from the dictator novel because they "produced a critique othat the writers could not have published in their homelands". (168) Accordingly, I'm moving Tomás Eloy Martínez's La novela de Perón into others. I'm not sure about what the Martin source says about this, therefore, please change this back if deemed appropriate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abarratt ( talk • contribs) 14:59, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
If the Lead is expanded, this article probably will be advanced enough to be considered for a GA nom. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast ( talk) 01:05, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Is this article ready to go to the next stage? I know we still need to work on style and themes but the lead looks decent and thanks to Jbmurray we have some photos! Thank you! -- Abarratt ( talk) 15:52, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
I've just nominated it. NB that there is still some work to do. One detail for instance is some confusion about some of the Brotherston references. But a GA Review will also point us in the right direction. -- jbmurray ( talk| contribs) 17:43, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
I have taken on Dictator novel for review under the Good Article criteria, as nominated on the Good article candidates page by jbmurray. You'll be pleased to hear that the article meets none of the quick-fail criteria, so I will shortly be conducting an in-depth review and will post the results below.
Where an article is not an outright pass, but requires relatively minor additional work to be brought up to GA standard, I will normally place it on hold - meaning that editors have around a week to address any issues raised. As a precaution to prevent failure by default should this occur, if editors are likely to be unavailable over the next ten days or so, feel free to leave a message on my talk page so we can arrange a more convenient time for review. Regards, EyeSerene talk 14:42, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
I have now reviewed this article under the six Good article criteria, and have commented in detail on each criterion below:
1 Well written (FAIL)
Although the prose is generally good, flows well and is pleasant to read, there are areas that would benefit from additional work (and naturally the MoS must be appeased!).
Manual of Style:
Prose:
2 Factual accuracy (FAIL)
3 Coverage (PASS)
The article provides sufficient coverage of its subject. Admittedly I'm no expert, but I did feel that I came away with a good understanding of the "dictator novel" genre.
4
Neutrality (WEAK PASS PASS)
The article is suitably neutral in its tone (or will be, once the editorialising mentioned above has been dealt with!) Done
5 Stability (PASS)
Although the article is being (and has been) extensively worked on, this is constructive development and does not constitute instability under the criteria.
6
Images (FAIL PASS)
None of the three book covers have suitable Fair-use rationales for use in this article. In itself, that's easily fixed, but what's more problematic is whether we can justify their use here. I suspect they may have to go (I'll get a second opinion though). Done
...even with complete rationales, the book covers would likely not qualify for fair use in this article. The images appear to be used as “eye candy”; I’m unable to discern or anticipate meaningful contributions beyond this malapropos function. I’m forced to wonder how seeing, for example, the cover of El Señor Presidente helps me to understand either that it was a classic novel in this genre or the genre itself. Fulfilling either of those purposes would be necessary to satisfy WP:NFCC#8. Other (perhaps now moot) considerations include the apparent ability of prose alone to convey meaning (which would be more so pertinent if this were up for FA) and the questionable necessity of all three covers; NFCC#3A requires as little use as possible in each article.
Thank you for the opportunity to review such an interesting and well-researched article. You can all be very proud of the work you have put in so far! As a result of the above concerns I have placed the article on hold. This gives editors up to a week to address the issues raised (although in some circumstances the hold period can be briefly extended). I'll regularly check back here, but please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or are ready for a re-review. All the best, EyeSerene talk 18:15, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
To relieve some of the potential for confusion when going through the above section, I've relisted the issues that are still waiting to be addressed below.
*DILH, para 1: the status of the "legacy" statement is still undecided. It either needs supporting as it stands, or rewording less dogmatically per
Abarratt's comment above (and still sourcing, naturally!). Done
I hope this helps to focus our efforts for the last few hurdles. You've all done a superb job over the last few days dealing with my review, and I look forward to being able to pass this article soon ;) All the best, EyeSerene talk 13:40, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
I've checked the article through one last time, done a bit of copyediting and MoS stuff, and (as always happens) spotted a couple of things for you to check:
Sorry to bring these up, but we're so close now... EyeSerene talk 18:58, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Congratulations on your fantastic work on the suggestions provided. It's been a pleasure to review this fascinating article, and I am now satisfied that Dictator novel meets the GA criteria. I have therefore passed it as a Good Article, and listed it on the Good Articles page under the category Language and literature.
For futher improvement in future, the number of direct quotations in the "Classic dictator novels" section could be reduced by rewriting them as prose, and the legacy section could be expanded to mention the awards given to dictator novel authors.
Excellent work, and thank you to all Dictator novel's editors for your valuable contributions to Wikipedia! EyeSerene talk 21:15, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Please add your name to any of these tasks that you want to take on.-- Abarratt ( talk) 21:33, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
~to be completed at a later date -- Abarratt ( talk) 02:53, 5 March 2008 (UTC)
Forerunners
Classic Dictator Novels
Others I think this is done for now...-- Abarratt ( talk) 04:08, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
I really don't know how to do this...-- Abarratt ( talk) 04:16, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm thinking a lot of issues are going to come up since we're very new to wikipedia..
1) Make headings within headings? As an example, how could I make "introduction and history" as subsections of my "to do" heading on this page??? —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Abarratt (
talk •
contribs)
23:13, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
2) So I used [ tool]to generate a citation but the book The Cambridge Companion to the Latin American Novel is not written by Efrain Kristal but edited by him/her. How do I change this? The chapter in question is written by John King.-- Abarratt ( talk) 04:04, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Just curious what everyone thinks should be included under Latin America. Should we be discussing Caribbean authors? -- Abarratt ( talk) 04:42, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
To assist WikiProject Murder Madness and Mayhem in its drive to bring this article to Featured status, a number of experienced editors from the FA-Team have volunteered their editing services to the project. To see which editors are watching this article, click here.
You can contact a specific editor directly by leaving a message on their talk page, or more generally by posting a message here. To do this, click the '+' tab at the top of the page and enter a subject title, and your message, in the editing windows that will appear. Don't forget to finish off by typing four tildes (~~~~) to automatically add your signature; you need to be logged in for this to work properly.
We're all really enthusiastic about this project, and looking forward to working with you. All the best, The FA-Team 11:17, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
"Postmodern Latina writers of the 1980s, such as Ana Castillo and Giannina Braschi challenge the structure of the dictator novel. For example, in Giannina Braschi's mock diary, "The Intimate Diary of Solitude" (published in Empire of Dreams), the narrator of the Latin American Boom is shot by a lonely make-up artist who works at Macy's and despises the commercialization of her solitude."
Somehow while editing our references page seems to have disappeared but it's still there when we click 'edit'. What has happened???-- Abarratt ( talk) 18:59, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
This section really needs some help. I'm trying to fill in this section with knowledge from a few books but it isn't enough to give this section justice. I'm hoping someone with more expertise can edit this section or provide some advice. Particularly, I'm not sure which authors to name as key representatives of the modernist novel in Latin America. These are the few that were previously on the page Rosario Castellanos, David Vinas, Antonio de Benedetto, Yolanda Oreamundo, Salvador Garendia, and Jacques Stephan Alexis, as well as established writers Agustín Yáñez, Juan Rulfo, and Leopoldo Marechal. -- Abarratt ( talk) 18:35, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone have advice on what we need to do to get this article up to B-Class status? ≈ Juliemcd ( talk) 21:28, 13 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm moving these articles from "Further Reading" to here. They should actually be cited in the article itself.
-- jbmurray ( talk| contribs) 09:23, 14 March 2008 (UTC)
Guys, there's still a problem with focus in this article. Too often it tries to cover the entirety of the Boom or even the entirety of Latin American literature. This is an article about the dictator novel, however, and it should references those things only in so far as they are relevant to the dictator novel. So I've cut the section on magical realism, because it didn't establish any links to the topic in hand. For what it's worth, and so you don't feel it's lost altogether, I'm putting it here. But honestly I don't see why this material should be in the article.
And don't be despondent about such a cut. Rather you should think "Hey, we don't have to do all that!" "All we have to do is focus on the dictator novel!"
If this doesn't make sense, just ask.
Meanwhile, over on I, the Supreme they've dug out a bunch of good sources directly on the dictator novel, most of which are online. I recommend you check them out!
OK, here's the cut section...
-- jbmurray ( talk| contribs) 06:21, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
And here's some more stuff I've cut. Again, you can always undo my edits. But I do think you need to focus, and to write about other stuff only in so far as it helps us understand the dictator novel.
-- jbmurray ( talk| contribs) 06:28, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
I just wanted to thank the editors for their useful contributions to this article! Writing an article on a genre is very difficult - their desire to undertake that challenge should be commended. That said, let me offer some advice. When defining and explaining a genre, it is best to do so through abstraction and generality rather than through particular examples. For example, if I wanted to define the "science fiction novel", I could list Philip K. Dick, Ursula LeGuin, Arthur C. Clarke, etc. but the works of these writers are different in a lot of ways. The question the article on the science fiction novel would need to answer is: How are their science fiction novels the same? That is what this article needs to answer about the "dictator novel". What are the characteristics of a dictator novel? I think that by expanding the "Style and themes" section and thinking about the "what are the characteristics of a dictator novel" question while doing research, it will be easier to write this page. Of course, not all scholars are going to agree on the definition, but that is fine - you can present competing definitions here (see WP:NPOV). For someone unfamiliar with the "dictator novel", a list of novels is less helpful than a general description. The list gives them a place to go after they have absorbed the general definition. I hope that this was helpful! Awadewit ( talk) 17:23, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
Should we include Cortázar's Libro de Manuel?-- Abarratt ( talk) 22:59, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
According to Raymond Leslie Williams, novels of exile are separate from the dictator novel because they "produced a critique othat the writers could not have published in their homelands". (168) Accordingly, I'm moving Tomás Eloy Martínez's La novela de Perón into others. I'm not sure about what the Martin source says about this, therefore, please change this back if deemed appropriate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Abarratt ( talk • contribs) 14:59, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
If the Lead is expanded, this article probably will be advanced enough to be considered for a GA nom. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast ( talk) 01:05, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
Is this article ready to go to the next stage? I know we still need to work on style and themes but the lead looks decent and thanks to Jbmurray we have some photos! Thank you! -- Abarratt ( talk) 15:52, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
I've just nominated it. NB that there is still some work to do. One detail for instance is some confusion about some of the Brotherston references. But a GA Review will also point us in the right direction. -- jbmurray ( talk| contribs) 17:43, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
I have taken on Dictator novel for review under the Good Article criteria, as nominated on the Good article candidates page by jbmurray. You'll be pleased to hear that the article meets none of the quick-fail criteria, so I will shortly be conducting an in-depth review and will post the results below.
Where an article is not an outright pass, but requires relatively minor additional work to be brought up to GA standard, I will normally place it on hold - meaning that editors have around a week to address any issues raised. As a precaution to prevent failure by default should this occur, if editors are likely to be unavailable over the next ten days or so, feel free to leave a message on my talk page so we can arrange a more convenient time for review. Regards, EyeSerene talk 14:42, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
I have now reviewed this article under the six Good article criteria, and have commented in detail on each criterion below:
1 Well written (FAIL)
Although the prose is generally good, flows well and is pleasant to read, there are areas that would benefit from additional work (and naturally the MoS must be appeased!).
Manual of Style:
Prose:
2 Factual accuracy (FAIL)
3 Coverage (PASS)
The article provides sufficient coverage of its subject. Admittedly I'm no expert, but I did feel that I came away with a good understanding of the "dictator novel" genre.
4
Neutrality (WEAK PASS PASS)
The article is suitably neutral in its tone (or will be, once the editorialising mentioned above has been dealt with!) Done
5 Stability (PASS)
Although the article is being (and has been) extensively worked on, this is constructive development and does not constitute instability under the criteria.
6
Images (FAIL PASS)
None of the three book covers have suitable Fair-use rationales for use in this article. In itself, that's easily fixed, but what's more problematic is whether we can justify their use here. I suspect they may have to go (I'll get a second opinion though). Done
...even with complete rationales, the book covers would likely not qualify for fair use in this article. The images appear to be used as “eye candy”; I’m unable to discern or anticipate meaningful contributions beyond this malapropos function. I’m forced to wonder how seeing, for example, the cover of El Señor Presidente helps me to understand either that it was a classic novel in this genre or the genre itself. Fulfilling either of those purposes would be necessary to satisfy WP:NFCC#8. Other (perhaps now moot) considerations include the apparent ability of prose alone to convey meaning (which would be more so pertinent if this were up for FA) and the questionable necessity of all three covers; NFCC#3A requires as little use as possible in each article.
Thank you for the opportunity to review such an interesting and well-researched article. You can all be very proud of the work you have put in so far! As a result of the above concerns I have placed the article on hold. This gives editors up to a week to address the issues raised (although in some circumstances the hold period can be briefly extended). I'll regularly check back here, but please feel free to contact me if you have any questions or are ready for a re-review. All the best, EyeSerene talk 18:15, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
To relieve some of the potential for confusion when going through the above section, I've relisted the issues that are still waiting to be addressed below.
*DILH, para 1: the status of the "legacy" statement is still undecided. It either needs supporting as it stands, or rewording less dogmatically per
Abarratt's comment above (and still sourcing, naturally!). Done
I hope this helps to focus our efforts for the last few hurdles. You've all done a superb job over the last few days dealing with my review, and I look forward to being able to pass this article soon ;) All the best, EyeSerene talk 13:40, 7 April 2008 (UTC)
I've checked the article through one last time, done a bit of copyediting and MoS stuff, and (as always happens) spotted a couple of things for you to check:
Sorry to bring these up, but we're so close now... EyeSerene talk 18:58, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Congratulations on your fantastic work on the suggestions provided. It's been a pleasure to review this fascinating article, and I am now satisfied that Dictator novel meets the GA criteria. I have therefore passed it as a Good Article, and listed it on the Good Articles page under the category Language and literature.
For futher improvement in future, the number of direct quotations in the "Classic dictator novels" section could be reduced by rewriting them as prose, and the legacy section could be expanded to mention the awards given to dictator novel authors.
Excellent work, and thank you to all Dictator novel's editors for your valuable contributions to Wikipedia! EyeSerene talk 21:15, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |