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I added an 'Examples' header, as I found myself reading examples when I expected criticism, ruining the endings of a couple of things I haven't seen / read.
The last two paragraphs are completely useless, in my opinion. I suggest deletion for them.
I cleansed most of the examples because none of them improved the article. They were simply arbitrarily-chosen examples from modern fiction. I left the opera example in place because it illustrated another use of 'deus ex machina' that was not otherwise explained. Chris Croy ( talk) 17:24, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
"...The term is a negative one, and it often implies a lack of skill on the part of the writer." I believe the source didn't give enough explaination about why the use of a DEM showed the writer has "no skill". Please try to repair with adequite sources.-- SpartaGeek23 ( talk) 19:40, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
Writers who use a deus ex machina lack skill. It takes artistic skill and ability to write a plot that can be resolved without introducing extraneous elements. Try it yourself and see if it is easy for anyone to do. Lestrade ( talk) 20:13, 4 December 2008 (UTC)Lestrade
Should his penchant for DEM endings be mentioned? -- 96.52.132.224 ( talk) 22:59, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
The word 'contrived' has a negative connotation and therefore I am not sure it fits the definition. Since before the time of Spinoza and Descartes, people have believed in the notion that within the mechanics or system of any object (man made or not) there is some form (Plato) of spiritual presence or entity, and this notion is replete almost throughout all artistic expression and throughout the world. Plato points out that artistic expression itself (through Forms) is imbued with this kind of metaphysical presence. It is only in recent times that we think of mechanics (even the mechanics of a crane) as begin devoid of spiritual presence or influence through underlying spiritual design; yet that is what Deus ex Machina connotes, that not only is there a spiritual or (in a sinister way) ghostly presence within a machine, but in the very design or system of all things. There are many examples of it that point to this underlying belief. Just one example from contemporary drama emphasizes the “spirit” of what I'm stating: Donnie Darko involves Deus ex Machina in the denouement, where time travel and its mechanics are attributed with a metaphysical (a spiritual) design, and it is used to resolve the plot. Many would say, also, that the Bible itself frequently makes use of Deus ex Machina, either in terms of Logos, where God is implied to be in the Words of the New Testament itself (see Deus ex Machina context on wikidot), or in terms of direct intervention where Christ, for instance, raises Lazurus from the dead. And this notion, of spiritual entities being within the mechanics or design of the written word is not exclusive to the Bible. It is implied in the phrase, “Intelligent Design”; Plato mentions it (Logos); the Popul Vuh states that the words of deities created the universe; and some in the far east still believe that a word, specifically within the sound of “Ohm”, created the universe. All of this is to say that although the English word 'contrived' fits the definition, it also implies a negative connotation that does not fully capture the contemporary definition and use. And because of this it is clear that people are falsely attributing this creative device as something to avoid when writing, and falsely attributing this creative device to what they consider to be bad plots within movies or fiction. Further, many are falsely indicating that in a contemporary context Deus ex Machina does not imply something metaphysical within any human artifice such as machines, or the mechanics of writing itself. That is not true as can be found in many novels, paintings, films, lyrics, etc. To name just a few: Ghost in the Machine by the Police; Gremlins by Steven Spielberg; The Ring as directed by Gore Verbinski; Frankenstein by Mary Shelly; Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep by Phillip K. Dick; or even Salvador Dali's painting of melting clocks. . . By contrast, it would be a challenge to find Deus ex Machina used in the contemporary movement of Realism, such as anything written by Hemingway, Steinbeck, or Cormac McCarthy. Therein, I believe, lies the confusion: Competing contemporary artistic schools of thought, where one group of artists emphasizes logical and structural objectivity (within fiction), and another group emphasizes belief, which is subjective. Charlessauer ( talk) 19:18, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
I think that for you to indicate you are making no arguments is an example of the philosophical notion of “bad faith”. But let's not belabor that one because it is outside the scope. Let's go back to your argument about Donnie Darko. Do you really believe that a human being, Donnie, can stop a jet engine from falling from the sky by mentally going back in time, by simply willing it with his mind, or through the use of some funny looking blob that comes out of his chest? Also, the very same jet engine in the beginning of the movie that came from nowhere while Donnie's sister and mother are asleep at home, by the end of the movie is one that potentially comes from a plane that Donnie's sister and mother are riding. Even if they are not riding it, and it is all a dream, it is a dream of the future and in such, are we to believe that Donnie has psychic powers? So you are arguing that the literary mechanism is one to be avoided, and yet you are arguing against many popular films and novels that sell. Charlessauer ( talk) 22:55, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
“ | a person or thing (as in fiction or drama) that appears or is introduced suddenly and unexpectedly and provides a contrived solution to an apparently insoluble difficulty | ” |
Hi, I'm responding to a request for comment.
Loodog, Charlessauer, do you think maybe we could include both definitions? It sounds like both of you have something meaningful to contribute to the article in different sections. I think it would be really cool if there were some sections on the modern definition spoken of by Loodog followed by some more sections that talk about the definition that Charlessauer describes, with a lead section that summarizes both definitions.
Charlessauer:
Loodog, a few things:
Also, Charlessauer mentioned some sort of debate between Plato and Aristotle about deus ex machina. That would be a great thing to include in the article as well!
You could say something like,
Talk about the controversy, if any, between them and how their views differ from those of other philosophers who taught about deus ex machina. Were there any others? A detailed, neutral section on that controversy would add considerably to the article, in my opinion.
You see, since Wikipedia wants comprehensive articles, it's wonderful to address lots of different meanings, definitions, and controversies (if applicable). It sounds like, between the two of you, you've got enough material to make this a great article. If you need any help deciding on the order, flow, or structure of the article, or on a wording that would be a compromise between both of you, I can help with that, too. Just ask for it here or on my talk page.
As for the word "contrived", I think there may be a word that would flow better English-wise. Perhaps "plot device"?
I hope this helps. Cheers! SunDragon34 ( talk) 02:48, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
There appear to be a great many inaccuracies, distortions and misunderstandings in the debate above. Firstly, where, specifically, in Plato's writings does he discuss the deus ex machina? I believe that you will find that he didn't. Not least because the phrase is of Latin origin. To attempt to crowbar Plato's theory of forms into an article on deus ex machina is nonsense. There might be some justification for all those heebie-jeebie musings in the ghost in the machine article, but certainly not here. The translation from Aristotle's Poetics that the article originally provided was misleading too; again, because of the use of a latin phrase. I have replaced the relevant quotation with a more recent scholarly translation, which makes it clear that the phrase is a mechane, which, when understood as a moment of the plot, is rendered as "contrivance". (See too Janko's note on this on p.111.) The notion that "intelligent design" is something other than a Biblical concept is an opinion not shared by anyone who is not a religious fundamentalist. To collapse subjectively-orientated fiction into a religious perspective isn't accurate either; one can write subjectively without falling into religious distortions. Finally, the analysis of Donnie Darko is utter nonsense. While it's true that deus ex machina is definitely a part of the overall design of the plot, it is far from being "metaphysical" or "spiritual"--quite the reverse. The plot is explicitly intertextually related to The Last Temptation of Christ; from the inciting incident onwards, Donnie Darko explores the same kind of parallel alternative timeline that Scorsese's film does, when Jesus gets down from the cross and leads an entire alternative life. The intertextual reference is there for us to mark its divergence from the Jesus-story: Donnie is a Jesus-like figure in a world without God. It is due to a chance accident that the sky falls on his head. This article needs a more historically-grounded account of the development of the concept; the "god" in the machine is a character in a tragedy--we need a discussion of how this developed during the fifth century Athenian theatre. Then Aristotle's discussion in the Poetics, with reference to complication and probability in design. Then how this developed through Roman and neo-classical dramatic theory right the way down to its (often rather facile) use in contemporary screenwriting manuals. There ought to be a parallel/related account of the different and changing use of the device in the history of post- classical drama. This topic is far more complex that either the present state of the article or the discussion above appears to appreciate. DionysosProteus ( talk) 16:08, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
I came here from RfC. I cannot see what you want comments on. Will someone please either summarise the issue requiring comment, or else remove the tag? AndyJones ( talk) 12:25, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
In "War of the Worlds", when the Martians are killed by terrestrial germs at the end of the story, HG Wells is employing a literary device known as "dramatic irony". This irony "bookends" the whole text since the story also begins with those classic lines that describe Martians looking upon Mankind "as as a man with a microscope might scrutinise the transient creatures that swarm and multiply in a drop of water". Through this device Wells is inviting us to consider a hierarchy of life forms while reminding us to be watchful of the complacency such a hierarchy may bring. This literary device isn't Deus ex machina. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.131.28.125 ( talk) 12:19, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
The example that comes to mind immeduately is the one fron The Deathly Hallos book in the Harry Potter series. The ability to speak Parseltounge is presented throughout the series as something special that only a few people can do. Towards the end of the book it is said that Ron uses parseltounge to open a door to find and destroy a Horocrux. This incredible and I beleive this is a good example of DEM. Superman example is weak. Deepak23 ( talk) 07:06, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
An example was certainly made for this article as it uses the actual phrase "deus ex machina": near the fin of the movie Dodgeball, the winning's from Peter's bet on the championship game are brought on court in a treasure chest bearing a plaque with the phrase "deus ex machina" on it. The money is, of course, probably the most perfect example of deus ex machina ever contrived as it solves a multitude of plot issues (such as salvaging Peter and Steve's friendship, redeeming Peter's for leaving the team thinking that any attempt to beat Globo Gym would be futile, and by offering the protagonist the ability to undo the antagonist by giving the former ownership over Globo Gym, which Peter turns into a bigger and better Average Joe's Gymnasium), and the example should be included in this article not simply because of its effective use of the device, but for its actual use of the phrase in the film. -- Mierk ( talk) 23:32, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
In modern times, deus ex machina is often used on purpose in the comedy and parody media. For example, in Mel Brooks' History of the World, Part I, several otherwise-inescapable situations in the two main stories of the film were solved through the sudden appearance of a white horse named "Miracle".
I feel as though Magnolia is being sorely overlooked, for even though the <Spoiler> frog-rain </Spoiler> doesn't end the movie directly, it does trigger the dramatic upheaval which brings each of the film's major characters together. The fact that they fell from the sky and are a shock to every character also certainly lends validity to this example. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.187.44.44 ( talk) 10:29, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
I am sure there are many other examples of 'deus ex machina' used purposely for parody purposes and being pointed out as such. Another example is the movie 'Olive the other raindeer'. While being captured in the back of a mail truck, Olive finds a package adressed to her from 'Deus ex Machina' which contains a file which she uses to escape.
70.179.142.114 (
talk)
As far as modern movies, Star Wars is a great example, as they always end up saved somehow. For example, in Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones, just as the jedi are surrounded by droids, the new Clone Army drops in in their machines. ———
I think this example should be used. -- Kitch ( Talk : Contrib) 20:14, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
What about the third shot from a Zat'nik'tel in Stargate SG-1 and how it disintegrates a body or object right when they needed to infiltrate undetected and then they stopped using it after season 2? I think that's a decent example.
67.252.137.248 (
talk)
04:41, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
As seen via a google search everywhere, there is a "machine" by that name (hybrid motorcycle thing... go look on youtube) : http://gizmodo.com/5038876/yamaha-branded-deus-ex-machina-motorcycle-exoskeleton-on-video-looks-tron+esque http://gizmodo.com/392816/yamaha-branded-deus-ex-machina-motorcycle-exoskeleton-a-segway-on-steroids
I suggest that the a disambiguation notice is in order, for a separate article; for all I know, Wikipedia has one somewhere for this machine >.< 68.185.167.117 ( talk) 01:34, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
The modern section needed a true example of a true DEM that is NOT IRONIC. The Threepenny Opera example is ironic and not a good choice for a sole example. The Andromeda Strain is possibly the best-known instance of a modern DEM. It, and not the Threepenny Opera, should be the first example given because it is not ironic or in dispute.
I would also question the wisdom of huge warning comments saying "DON'T ADD EXAMPLES" when there are absolutely NO good examples given. -- NellieBly ( talk) 21:32, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
While his work is good, at the present time he is not mentioned in any reliable sources. Just because he may have 100 subscribers does not mean that his series is notable. Anyway, the guy won't even finish the series. For a more knowledgeable and relaxed Wikipedia- Nemesis646 ( talk) 09:15, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
Its made from halo not Dues ex —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.6.168.201 ( talk) 06:13, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
It has previously been discussed, that the plot of Donnie Darko is based around the DEM plot device. What i find interesting is, at the ending of the movie when Donnie has a knife to his neck, he actually says "Deus ex Machina" out loud, as the car comes to his rescue. I found it quite ironic that he says it out loud. It's almost as if the director's having a laugh at Mainstream cinema. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.209.100.22 ( talk) 09:22, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm failing to see how the Stephanie Meyer book "Breaking Dawn" contains a deus ex machina. The events are foreshadowed well. If no one objects, I'll be removing "Breaking Dawn" as a see also example. Killswitch Engage ( talk) 05:20, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
'Twilight Breaking Dawn Part 1 (2011)' contains a Deus Ex Machina when Jacob Black "imprints" on Bella Swan-Cullen's child. There is no mention that a child can be "imprinted" or that "imprinted" people can not be hurt by the Coven Werewolf tribe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.222.30.92 ( talk) 14:07, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
The current section about twilight - "Stephenie Meyer's Twilight Series contained many instances of the same problem, most notably the eventual 'vampiric' powers of the lead character Bella Swan. Her abilities are far reaching, beyond anything that any other character in the series have and are shown at such a time that all previous tension-such as it is-is simply wiped from the story.", seems a little unspecific. I reckon it'd be better removed, or be more specific about the exact event being referred to. Farthin ( talk) 21:54, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
There is a nearly perfect example of deus ex machina at the end, however. Nahuel, for whom there is no previous mention or foreshadowing, appears in the final moments of the book in order to solve the problem of Renesmee and the Volturi. Shanook28 ( talk) 19:29, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
If you want a widely known example of a deus ex machina, you could use Hermione's time-travel charm at the end of HARRY POTTER AND THE PRISONER OF AZKABAN, particularly blatant in the film version. The possibility of time travel had not been mentioned up to that point and, having invented it, Rowling then had to explain why the spell could not be used to solve future problems.
I am puzzled about what the "deus ex machina" in HAMLET is supposed to be. The exchange of swords? It certainly looks clumsy in the original script, but in many productions Hamlet deliberately arranges the exchange, and it certainly doesn't avert the tragic ending. CharlesTheBold ( talk) 21:46, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Going with the request that examples be discussed here first, I think the ending of Transformers 2 could well qualify (Spoilers ahead)
The main human character has died, a medic uses defibrilator pads to revive him and fails, he is dead with no apparent way of coming back. Cut to some sort of dream sequence where the character is floating in the clouds and is told by a god like transformer in the clouds that he has done good. Bang, back to the real world and he jumps up to carry on the story with no sign he just nearly died. Given that there is litteraly a machine 'god' in the sky which appears from nowhere and solves the problem, I'm tempted to think this is deliberate (except that might be a touch sophisticated for Michael Bay)-- ThePaintedOne ( talk) 16:49, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
I'm not very clear on deus ex machina, but would the person at the end of The Hobbit count? You would be 100% sure that Bilbo would kill Smaug, but it's some random person who had used a single arrow in Smaug's (left?) breast. Correct or incorrect? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.198.214.86 ( talk) 02:41, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
I think this is overemphasing Wikipedia's need for proof. An unbelievable situation needs no one saying 'this is unbelievable'. An unbelievable situation remains unbelievable. Ok, it might help for some critic to denounce a plot as unbelievable but most people know a plot is unbelievable and the solution has come from nowhere. 78.146.246.181 ( talk) 11:35, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
No not really that easy. All fiction is "Unbelievable" to some extent. The word use above was "contrived" but even that applies to pretty much any story when viewd from the outside. Take the comments about Superman (the movie) also on this page - I fail to see why someone should be surprised that Superman can alter time, when he can stop bullets, fly, leap tall buildings etc etc. It is all part of the story. You could complain that altering time is way harder than jumping tall buildings, but there you are applying real world logic to a fictional world. The story is all about Superman doing amazing things, so you shouldn't be surprised when he does something amazing. Same with Harry Potter and time travel. The whole final 3rd of the Prisoner of Azkaban is taken up with the time travel bit and time travel was introduced throughout the book, although not obviously. So time travel is a key part of the story, it is hardly sprung on the reader in the last 5 pages to bring the story to a happy but unexpected ending. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.253.2.25 ( talk) 13:55, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Considering the number of times DEM is used in deliberate ways for comedic or ironic purposes would be a good idea to add a "comedic use of DEM" section? Numerous people want to add Mel Brooks or Dodgeball as examples. Another example is the MST3K episode Mitchell in which Joel escapes the Satellite of Love via a never heretofore known escape pod called the Deus Ex Machina (though Mike butchered the pronunciation). This seems like it might resolve some of the issues raised on this page. Furthermore, I think it would in fact add to an understanding of what DEM is, since this has become its dominate use in mainstream film, books, etc... While DEM does seem to have a negative connotation to it, a plot device can be neither good or bad, it is just chosen by the creator. When chosen by a creator becuase they backed themselves into a corner and couldn't do anything else, then, yes, it is lazy. However, when used for comedic or ironic purposes, this is a completely valid use of the plot device since it is deliberate, obvious and often enjoyed by the audience, which is, of course, the purpose of comedy. In addition, it also serves as a meta-fiction, commenting on the ridiculousness of the DEM device as used previously. So I would suggest adding a section on that type of use. This would also help avoid confusion between different ways in which the device is used.-- Priamus2020 ( talk) 00:42, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
In the novel and play The Bad Seed the mother realizes that she has passed a genetic bad seed from her serial–killer mother on to her serial-killer 8–year–old daughter. She unsuccessfully tries to kill both herself and the child, but only succeeds in killing herself, leaving her daughter alive to continue to kill and to pass on the bad seed. However, the Hays Code would not permit movies in which crime was successful. Both suicide and murder were crimes, so in the 1956 film the ending of the story was changed to have the mother survive her suicide attempt and, more important here, a completely new deus ex machina final scene was created in which the daughter goes out on a dock in a rainstorm to try to recover the fruits of her crime and is killed by a lightning bolt. The new ending for the movie totally reversed the climax of the book and play and is one of the greatest modern examples of deus ex machina. Could we include the film as an example in the article, perhaps in a sentence saying something about deus ex machina sometimes being forced on drama by external forces? I haven't been bold on this one because this article seems fairly well tuned at this point and I wanted others to have a chance to comment first. TRANSPORTERMAN ( TALK) 15:23, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Surely the Sleeping God at the end of The Night's Dawn Trilogy (Peter F. Hamilton)---who rather magically makes everything OK again after three books' worth of almost continual disaster---is a perfect, honest (non-ironic) DEM? 150.203.35.113 ( talk) 06:03, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
In Avatar, half the movie is dedicated to explaining how the Na'vi and the entire Pandoran biosphere works together, so how could this be DEM? It is only a logical response from the eco-system to attack the invaders, and it had been hinted many times that it everything was working and thinking together. Then main character even asked for it to happen.
It does not sound like DEM to me.
ItWasThatGuy! (
talk)
15:24, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
If the examples being presented in the Modern Use section actually use the phrase "Deus ex machina" within them (i.e., the Dodgeball or Donnie Darko examples), then they seem okay for that section. But to simply start listing examples of any DEM usage in literature/film is going to quickly create a ridiculously extensive list in no time. Examples should be limited to those that actually acknowledge themselves as a DEM, as that makes them noteworthy enough for the article. ChargersFan ( talk) 01:15, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
I'd suggest making a reference to the 2001 film donnie darko in which he actually mutters the words DEM due to the fact that he's in a subsequent tangent unniverse. [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.191.159.17 ( talk) 07:04, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
References
Surely one of the best known, and an extreme example of, is where Brian falls from a tower and is saved by a passing space ship. Mannafredo ( talk) 11:57, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
I don't think either qualifies as a deus ex machina and should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wilkyisdashiznit ( talk • contribs) 04:47, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
The first paragraph seemed messed up, so I changed it back to what it was a few edits ago. I saved the messed up part, as it seemed to be part of another section:
A deus ex machina ( /ˈdeɪ.əs ɛks ˈmɑːkinə/ or /ˈdiː.əs ɛks ˈmækɨnə/, [1] ==Ancient uses== The Greek tragedian Euripides is often criticized for his frequent use of the deus ex machina. More than half of Euripides's extant tragedies employ a deus ex machina in their resolution and some critics go so far as to claim that Euripides invented the deus ex |title=The Arabian Nights Reader|first=Ulrich|last=Marzolph|publisher= Wayne State University Press|year=2006|isbn=0814332595|pages=241–2}}</ref> Just when Harun is about to have Ja'far executed for his failure, a deus ex machina occurs when the murderer suddenly reveals himself, [2] claiming to be the woman's husband. [3] Daedalus733 ( talk) 19:48, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
References
In the LucasArts video game The Curse of Monkey Island, the hero Guybrush Threepwood finds himself trapped in a quicksand pit. The only way to get out is reaching a life-saving vine that, as for most of the things on Plunder island, has a plaque near it. This one explains that its latin name is "Arborealis Deusexmachinas" (reference: World of Monkey Island, a fan web page about the Monkey Island series). Marzios ( talk) 22:37, 15 march 2010 (UTC)
The Natural and Pineapple Express are not examples of DEM. Neither is Dodgeball, really, but its writers seemed to think so. DEM properly comes at the end of a narrative and features a character unseen up to that point. Ifnkovhg ( talk) 04:06, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
Episode [1x19] of the TV series Lost bears the title "Deus Ex Machina". In a nutshell, the survivors of the plane crash find a previously unnoticed seaplane perched in the jungle canopy, which miraculously contains a functioning radio. Unfortunately, just as they manage to make contact with their potential rescuers, the plane falls, destroying the radio. In my opinion, this is an extremely well-executed example of both dramatic irony and deus ex machina. After all, if the plane had not fallen, the survivors would have been able to relay their position to their rescuers, and the plot would be resolved. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think it should be noted here for further reference. Perhaps a section on irony in combination with deus ex machina could be added to the article, if more examples can be found. 70.181.149.37 ( talk) 04:04, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
The editors of this page will know whether this is relevant or not but the satirical film (and book) Thank You For Smoking contains a hilarious (and clever) scene that highlights the cringe-worthy use of DEM in cinema.
Jeff Megall: Sony has a futuristic sci-fi movie they're looking to make.
Nick Naylor: Cigarettes in space?
Jeff Megall: It's the final frontier, Nick.
Nick Naylor: But wouldn't they blow up in an all oxygen environment?
Jeff Megall: Probably. But it's an easy fix. One line of dialogue. 'Thank God we invented the... you know, whatever device.'
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427944/quotes
Use at your leisure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.67.115.253 ( talk) 11:04, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
Removed this from the examples as it's a previously set-up rescue, not a deus ex machina. The source used was from an author's personal web site. The screenwriter himself explains why it's not a DEM in the Creative Screenwriting podcast 29th Oct 2010 edition. Jumble Jumble ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 11:07, 3 November 2010 (UTC).
My research indicates that the phrase is not from Horace's poem. Rather, the Oxford English Dictionary says that the Latin phrase is a translation of a Greek phrase.
You can search Horace's poem for the phrase here: http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/horace/arspoet.shtml but you will not find it.
I am unsure about how to go about correcting wikipedia.
Cheers,
Paul. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.32.130.104 ( talk) 05:55, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
Wiktionary has the standard classic pronunciation: IPA: /ˈdɛ.ʊs/ (Sort of like "day-oos", but shorter) I've always heard this pronounced the classical way also. Should we add an alternate pronunciation with the correct/classical way? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.116.87.110 ( talk) 20:17, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Why not just do it yourself? 173.216.128.176 ( talk) 00:55, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Could someone who knows the topic fix that, or erase the entire section? Cuardin ( talk) 12:29, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
It was a lot weirder before I trimmed a bit (and before it disappeared completely, of course). As the paragraph that I deleted went on, it made less and less sense. It kind of dissolved into complete nonsense at the end. It was either a prank, or very badly translated text. RIP Piano in the bushes. You were enjoyed. --
Andylindsay (
talk)
23:13, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
I remember the movie Mars Attacks! has a thoroughly ridiculous example, when the attacking Martians, with advanced technology, amazing weapons that can absorb a nuclear missile and convert it into a balloon etc, start blowing up whenever a Slim Whitman musical number is played! This finally saves the earth-lings. I thought it was neat, in keeping with the rather crass, yet subtle spirit of the movie. Is it worth a mention? NarasMG ( talk) 06:03, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
The translation "god out of the machine" seems to be wrong. It should be "god in the machine" or "from/of the machine", like "ex libris". So "a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention" of a supposed "god in/of the machine", not from outside.
You could call "the market" in economics a deus ex machina.
Mass effect can be added to the video game section of this article — Preceding unsigned comment added by Julian Grebe ( talk • contribs) 08:43, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
I don't see how the Mass Effect 3 ending is deus ex machina according to the article cited. The matter is still very much under debate. -- 63.148.11.11 ( talk) 13:44, 21 March 2012 (UTC)sam
It fits the definition perfectly. Unsolvable problem: Reapers are destroying all life in the galaxy with no conventional solution available. Contrived and unexpected intervention by a new character: the Star-God appears abruptly and offers to end the Reaper threat. What's the debate? 99.32.177.26 ( talk) 03:17, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
The Star Child is not a case of deus ex machina. He is there to explain the situation, not solve the problem. The Crucible itself may be a case of deus ex machina, however, as the previous two games never mentioned the past cycles building a super-weapon to destroy the Reapers and it appears abruptly at the beginning of Mass Effect 3. Shanook28 ( talk) 05:35, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
The Star Child is the Catalyst, aka the Citadel itself. The Crucible is the other half of the tool that is capable (somehow) of doing one of three distinct things, hence the three endings. The Star Child IS the tool, literally. He explains your choices as well, of course. But since he is the Citadel, and the Crucible combines to make one object, he is the solution to the problem. It wasn't clear up until that point that the Citadel was even a character instead of an object. If that argument is deemed a failure, I have another. Now, yes, the Citadel has been around since the beginning and the Catalyst and Crucible were around for most of the third game. But the definition as read here calls for "some new event, character, ability, or object." The scene with the Star Child is most definitely an unexpected and contrived event, and arguably the three heretofore unmentioned abilities may also qualify, IMO. 99.32.177.26 ( talk) 01:15, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
Incorrect, the Citadel is the Catalyst's home, not the Catalyst. The Catalyst is not an unexpected event, it is one of the 3 main plot points (build the Crucible, gather forces, find the Catalyst) and a driving force behind a lot of the game (going to Thessia, going to Cerberus, going to the Citadel). What it is is unexpected, but the Catalyst itself is not newly introduced at the end of the game and is known about from early on in ME3. The Catalyst also solves nothing, it mearly relays information on what the Crucible does, it's Shepard, the Crucible, and the Citadel which solves the problem. Seeing as though it's a plot device that is introduced early in ME3 and doesn't actually solve anything in the end I have removed it. 81.155.99.127 ( talk) 17:31, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
I find the debate over this to be nit picking at best. You may as well remove the Lord of the Flies' Deus ex machina because the boys created signal fires, foreshadowing their rescue. Just because Mass Effect 3 foreshadows the Crucible, the Catalyst, and Shepard's involvement in uniting the two doesn't make the ending any less of a Deus ex machina. I mean, why even argue it? The Reapers, of which the Star Child/Catalyst is the head member, fancy themselves unknowable God-like beings. The Star Child shows up literally out of nowhere at the end, when all hope seems lost, to offer 3 different solutions that work "just because." It is literally one of the most straight-forward examples of Deus ex machina in videogames ever to exist, but we're arguing that it doesn't qualify as Deus ex machina because it involves 3 different factors conveniently solving everything instead of just one factor, among other specific things. I will concede that the Catalyst specifically isn't a Deus ex machina (even though it is a literal god in the machine), but that doesn't change that the ending still relies on Deus ex machnia to solve its primary problem. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.22.217.124 ( talk) 01:36, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
It's not deus ex machina as you're told well in advance that you need the Catalyst and the Crucible to stop the Reapers and all of the choices are foreshadowed throughout the game (Destroy being the primary objective of the galaxy, Control being the Illusive Man's goal, Synthesis being essentially what the Reapers were doing). You're told that the Crucible joined with the Catalyst will stop the Reapers, and you do exactly that in the end. What option you choose or the Catalyst being an AI within the Citadel does not change that in any way. The entry also claims that organic/synthetic conflict is "the series' primary problem", which is entirely inaccurate: you sought to stop the Reapers in the first game, sought to stop the Reapers in the second game, sought to stop the Reapers in the third game, and stop the Reapers at the end of the third game. The idea of organic/synthetic conflict is the reason why the Catalyst was created and why it created the Reapers, but the ending does not revolve around that conflict; in fact, the Catalyst itself explicitly states that Destroy is not a solution. CaiusRagnarok ( talk) 18:53, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
An awesome, shameless use of DEM can be found in "The Angry Beavers" S4 E7 "Moby Dopes" where Norbert and Daggit are saved from a rampaging Killer Whale by a tyrannosaurus rex. Norbert: Where in the name of deus ex machina did that T-Rex come from? 118.209.130.77 ( talk) 04:31, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
just wanting to see if it's really noteworthy to point out that China isn't "China" in China & that "deus ex machina" is logically identical to those little stickers on the bottom of various goods that says...
"made in China"
pointless? not really. ironic? totally. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.218.93.150 ( talk) 07:25, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
Only on Wikipedia could an article about a literary device provide as illustrations Greek tragedy and The Lord of the Flies, on the one hand, and a "Simpsons" episode on the other! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Partnerfrance ( talk • contribs) 19:08, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
Should Stargate SG-1's use of the idea that a third shot from a Zat'nik'tel disintegrates a target be mentioned. They only used it to dispose of a body in season 2 and stopped talking about it afterward. - William slattery ( talk) 23:07, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
Eagles can see a rat one mile away. Apply it to a hypothetical giant eagle and you have a one hundred mile long vision. Add to it the fact that Gandalf knew exactly where Frodo and Sam were (Mount Doom) and the hope that they were still alive and it was not only POSSIBLE but TOO EASY to the Eagles finding the Hobbits.
Therefore stop calling this scene a Deus Ex Machina because it isn't. 189.81.74.9 ( talk) 20:06, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
Shouldn't the game Deus Ex be in this line under computer games. At the end of part one you're defeated or has to surrender and you end up in a cell. Then suddenly Daedelus hacks the door. The name of the game is also a reference to this subject. 193.11.163.141 ( talk) 17:18, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm a bit peeved that someone has used The Lord of the Flies, The Lord of the Rings and The War of the Worlds as examples. In the case of The War of the Worlds where you have that old-school, more hard-sciency, less literary material, if you are quite involved in the story as a reader you can be forgiven for feeling a bit cheated with the ending. With the Lord of the Flies, the contributor has redeemed himself somewhat by qualifying his inclusion of that great novel. In the case of The Lord of the Rings, however, I just don't see where he is coming from. The phrase 'Deus ex machina' is defined in the article as an "...unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object"... to read: it should be too convenient and not in keeping with the rest of the fiction. The eagles dropping in was a piece of luck, but this is Heroic fantasy... such devices are essential to the genre, and the eagles were not quickly invented and inserted to get Tolkien out of trouble. The man was far too invested in his work to be accused of any cheapness, and the suggestion of cheapness makes me choke. I'm too upset to correct this article myself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GetSnufflegartened ( talk • contribs) 04:36, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
Happy new year. I've reinstated the example, linking the reference. I have also added a reference to Eucatastrohe and a quote of Tolkien's where he describes the eagles as 'machine' (in quotes). 85.181.4.145 ( talk) 14:40, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
I propose that Lord of the Flies be removed from the examples, or the reference be heavily rewritten. Though the source is solid it does not simply state that the ending of the book is DEM. In fact it goes on to say:
As noted in William Golding, the author fought in the Royal Navy during WWII onboard a destroyer, and was briefly involved in the pursuit and sinking of the Bismarck. It's hardly a stretch of the imagination to concede that the ending to Lord of the Flies was indeed a plot device (ie, "gimmick"), but one based on his wanting to make a deep sociopolitical statement, not the shallow 'cop-out' that the article currently implies. Using it as an example of deus ex machina demonstrates great ignorance unbefitting of an encyclopedia. nagualdesign ( talk) 18:54, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
If you're happy with the current wording, I'm satisfied that it be retained in the examples. After all, critics have indeed argued that the ending is DEM, and the source expands upon that discourse in a well-written NPOV manner. The problem I had with this and other examples is that they were written in WP's voice as though things are definitely DEM. Thanks for the help, Mangoe. Kind regards, nagualdesign ( talk) 21:51, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
I've taken out the section about the infinite improbability drive from Hitchhiker's guide because it is uncited and because I don't see that a citation is going to be forthcoming. But don't let me stop anyone from finding a real reference for the claim. Mangoe ( talk) 14:12, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
It seems ironic that asimov's fascination and use of deus ex machina in the Foundation series and I, Robot is not included in this article. The irony of its use in I,Robot where Asimov seems to take its more literal meaning and the irony of its omission in Wikipedia the modern realization of azimov's Encyclopedia Galactica from his Foundation series are notable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.137.244.79 ( talk) 02:01, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
I added an entry into modern examples of Deus ex machina, yet it was removed today. Can you enlighten me as to why this example should have been removed? Frankly, I find the "modern examples" section interesting -- if the examples there are good. Yet it appears as though others have listed examples that have later been removed. Sure, perhaps one doesn't want 50 examples here, that isn't really necessary. But there are so few modern examples currently, that there really is room for more.
Here is what I added yesterday, please enlighten me as to why this shouldn't be in the list:
At the end of the film "Jurassic Park" (1993), Grant, Sattler, Tim and Lex are cornered by two Velociraptors in the Visitor Center. Suddenly a Tyrannosaurus appears from off-screen, attacking and killing the Velociraptors allowing Grant and everyone to escape. Not only was the Tyrannosaurus too large to enter through any doors of the Visitor Center, it was unmotivated and didn't allow the ultimate confrontation between man and Velociraptor to be solved by the characters in the story. Classic deus ex machina.
76.175.167.85 (
talk)
03:54, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
Hi everyone-
I wanted to introduce myself. I am taking a look at this page and editing it for my graduate theater history class at Brooklyn College. Here is a list of my proposed edits based on research that I am doing. Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks!
Structure (sections should be flushed out more and organized better) a. Origins, Greek, Roman (if any), Renaissance, Neoclassical, Modern, etc. 2. Discussion on Aristotle, Horace, and any other critic 3. Flush out the examples a. Shakespeare uses it (does he)-how? 4. Influence over theater a. Why do we care? 5. More/better pictures a. Possibly a timeline 6. Term usage a. Do we still use the term to discuss magical plot endings? Has a different term been coined?
Jsattler07 ( talk) 17:07, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
As someone noted above, the list of examples could use extension. Is there something wrong with mentioning
Donnie Darko? It's a great example, it's talked a lot about above. If it's any help, the director Richard Kelly had an extended scene directly addressing the mechanism that had to get cut out of the film because it was too lengthy. It's on the deleted scenes of the original DVD.
Squish7 (
talk)
04:28, 4 April 2015 (UTC) Please ping me with [[User:Squish7]]
whenever replying to me.
māchina f (genitive māchinae); first declension
Literally from Latin: machination from god, scheme from god, plan from god. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davedudie ( talk • contribs)
Hey, I'm new to editing on this site as opposed to simply reading it, so sorry if I missed anything or went about this the wrong way, and also sorry that I end up getting so verbose in this entry, but I changed an instance of the pronoun "himself" to "themself", since the pronoun refers to a hypothetical writer whose gender is left unspecified. However, since the phrase in which this pronoun appeared was in quotation marks, and since there was no superscript hyperlinked number enclosed in square brackets indicating that the phrase was a verbatim quote from one of this article's sources, I am unsure whether the quotation marks are supposed to convey that the phrase was indeed intended to be a verbatim quote, or that the phrase expresses an opinion which is included for the sake of making the reader aware that such opinions exist rather than making the article itself explicitly express said opinion to the reader. If the quotation marks are in fact supposed to convey that their contents are a verbatim quote, then I suggest that either the source of the quote be cited and the word "themself" be enclosed in square brackets, or that the quotation marks be removed for the time being. If the quotation marks are there for the other reason I hypothesised above, then I believe that the article is acceptable as-is. AriaLyric ( talk) 21:29, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
Tolkien's concept of 'eucatastrophe' has nothing to do with 'deus ex machina'. It is a sudden turn in a story, but typically one that has been earned. The example Tolkien gives is this, from The Black Bull of Norroway:
Seven years I served for thee:
The glassy hill I clomb for thee:
The bluidy shirt I wrang for thee:
And wilt thou not wauken and turn to me?
He heard, and turned to her.
The material I have removed, conflating this concept with 'deus ex machina', contains no evidence that either Tolkien, or anybody else, believed that the two concepts had anything in common. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChengduTeacher ( talk • contribs) 04:41, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
== God from Machinations
I didn't know until today that "Deus Ex Machina" means "god FROM the machine". I guess I should've caught the "ex", but I didn't. What is the word for a god who has made the universe as a clockwork automaton? The goal of making an automaton is that it require no intervention once it has been created, wound up, and set to running, but will do what it is supposed to do guided ONLY by the clockwork driving it. If you believe in that kind of god, you believe it is a kind of blasphemy to say that God intervenes. If the Universe that God made was perfect from the git-go, everything that was ever going to happen was willed by that God into the Big Bang (or similar event) at the moment timulled was pe began. God would need to fix something only if God's design wasn't perfect. So what is the name for this conception of a god (the Deist god, the God AS Machine, not God FROM Machine) and would you consider posting a disambiguation-link at the top if the phrase for that is sufficiently similar to "Deus Ex Machina"? 74.64.104.99 ( talk) 11:09, 15 March 2020 (UTC)Christopher L. Simpson
It's called that because in the old Greek theatre they had a contraption called a roll-out, in which a god was brought out to the stage. The Latin word does not necessarily mean a machine with working parts, Virgil uses it of the Trojan horse. Suggest you read Aristotle's Poetics, tr. Butcher. It is nothing to do with the universe! Esedowns ( talk) 22:15, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
In "Oliver Twist," the fact that Rose is his aunt is central to the plot -- not a last-minute addition to resolve a problem. His grandfather recognizes early that there is something familiar about Oliver's appearance. The story is not about a poor boy who gets lucky, but of a wronged boy who is restored to his rightful place. A large portion of the story is devoted to the machinations of the other heir who seeks to deny Oliver of his inheritance. The fact that Rose is his aunt is central to the plot and without that fact, major portions of the book would need to be removed entirely. Dickens has a habit of revealing such hidden facts until the end of the story, but I don't think this is what the DEM phrase is meant to convey. 2600:1700:51B3:5630:D92B:8D1D:A02:9729 ( talk) 04:29, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
I can't decide if I like the informal tone of "At the end, Heracles shows up" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dgrrr ( talk • contribs) 22:25, 16 December 2021 (UTC)
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I added an 'Examples' header, as I found myself reading examples when I expected criticism, ruining the endings of a couple of things I haven't seen / read.
The last two paragraphs are completely useless, in my opinion. I suggest deletion for them.
I cleansed most of the examples because none of them improved the article. They were simply arbitrarily-chosen examples from modern fiction. I left the opera example in place because it illustrated another use of 'deus ex machina' that was not otherwise explained. Chris Croy ( talk) 17:24, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
"...The term is a negative one, and it often implies a lack of skill on the part of the writer." I believe the source didn't give enough explaination about why the use of a DEM showed the writer has "no skill". Please try to repair with adequite sources.-- SpartaGeek23 ( talk) 19:40, 20 May 2008 (UTC)
Writers who use a deus ex machina lack skill. It takes artistic skill and ability to write a plot that can be resolved without introducing extraneous elements. Try it yourself and see if it is easy for anyone to do. Lestrade ( talk) 20:13, 4 December 2008 (UTC)Lestrade
Should his penchant for DEM endings be mentioned? -- 96.52.132.224 ( talk) 22:59, 2 June 2008 (UTC)
The word 'contrived' has a negative connotation and therefore I am not sure it fits the definition. Since before the time of Spinoza and Descartes, people have believed in the notion that within the mechanics or system of any object (man made or not) there is some form (Plato) of spiritual presence or entity, and this notion is replete almost throughout all artistic expression and throughout the world. Plato points out that artistic expression itself (through Forms) is imbued with this kind of metaphysical presence. It is only in recent times that we think of mechanics (even the mechanics of a crane) as begin devoid of spiritual presence or influence through underlying spiritual design; yet that is what Deus ex Machina connotes, that not only is there a spiritual or (in a sinister way) ghostly presence within a machine, but in the very design or system of all things. There are many examples of it that point to this underlying belief. Just one example from contemporary drama emphasizes the “spirit” of what I'm stating: Donnie Darko involves Deus ex Machina in the denouement, where time travel and its mechanics are attributed with a metaphysical (a spiritual) design, and it is used to resolve the plot. Many would say, also, that the Bible itself frequently makes use of Deus ex Machina, either in terms of Logos, where God is implied to be in the Words of the New Testament itself (see Deus ex Machina context on wikidot), or in terms of direct intervention where Christ, for instance, raises Lazurus from the dead. And this notion, of spiritual entities being within the mechanics or design of the written word is not exclusive to the Bible. It is implied in the phrase, “Intelligent Design”; Plato mentions it (Logos); the Popul Vuh states that the words of deities created the universe; and some in the far east still believe that a word, specifically within the sound of “Ohm”, created the universe. All of this is to say that although the English word 'contrived' fits the definition, it also implies a negative connotation that does not fully capture the contemporary definition and use. And because of this it is clear that people are falsely attributing this creative device as something to avoid when writing, and falsely attributing this creative device to what they consider to be bad plots within movies or fiction. Further, many are falsely indicating that in a contemporary context Deus ex Machina does not imply something metaphysical within any human artifice such as machines, or the mechanics of writing itself. That is not true as can be found in many novels, paintings, films, lyrics, etc. To name just a few: Ghost in the Machine by the Police; Gremlins by Steven Spielberg; The Ring as directed by Gore Verbinski; Frankenstein by Mary Shelly; Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep by Phillip K. Dick; or even Salvador Dali's painting of melting clocks. . . By contrast, it would be a challenge to find Deus ex Machina used in the contemporary movement of Realism, such as anything written by Hemingway, Steinbeck, or Cormac McCarthy. Therein, I believe, lies the confusion: Competing contemporary artistic schools of thought, where one group of artists emphasizes logical and structural objectivity (within fiction), and another group emphasizes belief, which is subjective. Charlessauer ( talk) 19:18, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
I think that for you to indicate you are making no arguments is an example of the philosophical notion of “bad faith”. But let's not belabor that one because it is outside the scope. Let's go back to your argument about Donnie Darko. Do you really believe that a human being, Donnie, can stop a jet engine from falling from the sky by mentally going back in time, by simply willing it with his mind, or through the use of some funny looking blob that comes out of his chest? Also, the very same jet engine in the beginning of the movie that came from nowhere while Donnie's sister and mother are asleep at home, by the end of the movie is one that potentially comes from a plane that Donnie's sister and mother are riding. Even if they are not riding it, and it is all a dream, it is a dream of the future and in such, are we to believe that Donnie has psychic powers? So you are arguing that the literary mechanism is one to be avoided, and yet you are arguing against many popular films and novels that sell. Charlessauer ( talk) 22:55, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
“ | a person or thing (as in fiction or drama) that appears or is introduced suddenly and unexpectedly and provides a contrived solution to an apparently insoluble difficulty | ” |
Hi, I'm responding to a request for comment.
Loodog, Charlessauer, do you think maybe we could include both definitions? It sounds like both of you have something meaningful to contribute to the article in different sections. I think it would be really cool if there were some sections on the modern definition spoken of by Loodog followed by some more sections that talk about the definition that Charlessauer describes, with a lead section that summarizes both definitions.
Charlessauer:
Loodog, a few things:
Also, Charlessauer mentioned some sort of debate between Plato and Aristotle about deus ex machina. That would be a great thing to include in the article as well!
You could say something like,
Talk about the controversy, if any, between them and how their views differ from those of other philosophers who taught about deus ex machina. Were there any others? A detailed, neutral section on that controversy would add considerably to the article, in my opinion.
You see, since Wikipedia wants comprehensive articles, it's wonderful to address lots of different meanings, definitions, and controversies (if applicable). It sounds like, between the two of you, you've got enough material to make this a great article. If you need any help deciding on the order, flow, or structure of the article, or on a wording that would be a compromise between both of you, I can help with that, too. Just ask for it here or on my talk page.
As for the word "contrived", I think there may be a word that would flow better English-wise. Perhaps "plot device"?
I hope this helps. Cheers! SunDragon34 ( talk) 02:48, 23 July 2008 (UTC)
There appear to be a great many inaccuracies, distortions and misunderstandings in the debate above. Firstly, where, specifically, in Plato's writings does he discuss the deus ex machina? I believe that you will find that he didn't. Not least because the phrase is of Latin origin. To attempt to crowbar Plato's theory of forms into an article on deus ex machina is nonsense. There might be some justification for all those heebie-jeebie musings in the ghost in the machine article, but certainly not here. The translation from Aristotle's Poetics that the article originally provided was misleading too; again, because of the use of a latin phrase. I have replaced the relevant quotation with a more recent scholarly translation, which makes it clear that the phrase is a mechane, which, when understood as a moment of the plot, is rendered as "contrivance". (See too Janko's note on this on p.111.) The notion that "intelligent design" is something other than a Biblical concept is an opinion not shared by anyone who is not a religious fundamentalist. To collapse subjectively-orientated fiction into a religious perspective isn't accurate either; one can write subjectively without falling into religious distortions. Finally, the analysis of Donnie Darko is utter nonsense. While it's true that deus ex machina is definitely a part of the overall design of the plot, it is far from being "metaphysical" or "spiritual"--quite the reverse. The plot is explicitly intertextually related to The Last Temptation of Christ; from the inciting incident onwards, Donnie Darko explores the same kind of parallel alternative timeline that Scorsese's film does, when Jesus gets down from the cross and leads an entire alternative life. The intertextual reference is there for us to mark its divergence from the Jesus-story: Donnie is a Jesus-like figure in a world without God. It is due to a chance accident that the sky falls on his head. This article needs a more historically-grounded account of the development of the concept; the "god" in the machine is a character in a tragedy--we need a discussion of how this developed during the fifth century Athenian theatre. Then Aristotle's discussion in the Poetics, with reference to complication and probability in design. Then how this developed through Roman and neo-classical dramatic theory right the way down to its (often rather facile) use in contemporary screenwriting manuals. There ought to be a parallel/related account of the different and changing use of the device in the history of post- classical drama. This topic is far more complex that either the present state of the article or the discussion above appears to appreciate. DionysosProteus ( talk) 16:08, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
I came here from RfC. I cannot see what you want comments on. Will someone please either summarise the issue requiring comment, or else remove the tag? AndyJones ( talk) 12:25, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
In "War of the Worlds", when the Martians are killed by terrestrial germs at the end of the story, HG Wells is employing a literary device known as "dramatic irony". This irony "bookends" the whole text since the story also begins with those classic lines that describe Martians looking upon Mankind "as as a man with a microscope might scrutinise the transient creatures that swarm and multiply in a drop of water". Through this device Wells is inviting us to consider a hierarchy of life forms while reminding us to be watchful of the complacency such a hierarchy may bring. This literary device isn't Deus ex machina. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.131.28.125 ( talk) 12:19, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
The example that comes to mind immeduately is the one fron The Deathly Hallos book in the Harry Potter series. The ability to speak Parseltounge is presented throughout the series as something special that only a few people can do. Towards the end of the book it is said that Ron uses parseltounge to open a door to find and destroy a Horocrux. This incredible and I beleive this is a good example of DEM. Superman example is weak. Deepak23 ( talk) 07:06, 11 September 2008 (UTC)
An example was certainly made for this article as it uses the actual phrase "deus ex machina": near the fin of the movie Dodgeball, the winning's from Peter's bet on the championship game are brought on court in a treasure chest bearing a plaque with the phrase "deus ex machina" on it. The money is, of course, probably the most perfect example of deus ex machina ever contrived as it solves a multitude of plot issues (such as salvaging Peter and Steve's friendship, redeeming Peter's for leaving the team thinking that any attempt to beat Globo Gym would be futile, and by offering the protagonist the ability to undo the antagonist by giving the former ownership over Globo Gym, which Peter turns into a bigger and better Average Joe's Gymnasium), and the example should be included in this article not simply because of its effective use of the device, but for its actual use of the phrase in the film. -- Mierk ( talk) 23:32, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
In modern times, deus ex machina is often used on purpose in the comedy and parody media. For example, in Mel Brooks' History of the World, Part I, several otherwise-inescapable situations in the two main stories of the film were solved through the sudden appearance of a white horse named "Miracle".
I feel as though Magnolia is being sorely overlooked, for even though the <Spoiler> frog-rain </Spoiler> doesn't end the movie directly, it does trigger the dramatic upheaval which brings each of the film's major characters together. The fact that they fell from the sky and are a shock to every character also certainly lends validity to this example. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.187.44.44 ( talk) 10:29, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
I am sure there are many other examples of 'deus ex machina' used purposely for parody purposes and being pointed out as such. Another example is the movie 'Olive the other raindeer'. While being captured in the back of a mail truck, Olive finds a package adressed to her from 'Deus ex Machina' which contains a file which she uses to escape.
70.179.142.114 (
talk)
As far as modern movies, Star Wars is a great example, as they always end up saved somehow. For example, in Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones, just as the jedi are surrounded by droids, the new Clone Army drops in in their machines. ———
I think this example should be used. -- Kitch ( Talk : Contrib) 20:14, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
What about the third shot from a Zat'nik'tel in Stargate SG-1 and how it disintegrates a body or object right when they needed to infiltrate undetected and then they stopped using it after season 2? I think that's a decent example.
67.252.137.248 (
talk)
04:41, 4 March 2013 (UTC)
As seen via a google search everywhere, there is a "machine" by that name (hybrid motorcycle thing... go look on youtube) : http://gizmodo.com/5038876/yamaha-branded-deus-ex-machina-motorcycle-exoskeleton-on-video-looks-tron+esque http://gizmodo.com/392816/yamaha-branded-deus-ex-machina-motorcycle-exoskeleton-a-segway-on-steroids
I suggest that the a disambiguation notice is in order, for a separate article; for all I know, Wikipedia has one somewhere for this machine >.< 68.185.167.117 ( talk) 01:34, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
The modern section needed a true example of a true DEM that is NOT IRONIC. The Threepenny Opera example is ironic and not a good choice for a sole example. The Andromeda Strain is possibly the best-known instance of a modern DEM. It, and not the Threepenny Opera, should be the first example given because it is not ironic or in dispute.
I would also question the wisdom of huge warning comments saying "DON'T ADD EXAMPLES" when there are absolutely NO good examples given. -- NellieBly ( talk) 21:32, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
While his work is good, at the present time he is not mentioned in any reliable sources. Just because he may have 100 subscribers does not mean that his series is notable. Anyway, the guy won't even finish the series. For a more knowledgeable and relaxed Wikipedia- Nemesis646 ( talk) 09:15, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
Its made from halo not Dues ex —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.6.168.201 ( talk) 06:13, 13 December 2010 (UTC)
It has previously been discussed, that the plot of Donnie Darko is based around the DEM plot device. What i find interesting is, at the ending of the movie when Donnie has a knife to his neck, he actually says "Deus ex Machina" out loud, as the car comes to his rescue. I found it quite ironic that he says it out loud. It's almost as if the director's having a laugh at Mainstream cinema. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.209.100.22 ( talk) 09:22, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm failing to see how the Stephanie Meyer book "Breaking Dawn" contains a deus ex machina. The events are foreshadowed well. If no one objects, I'll be removing "Breaking Dawn" as a see also example. Killswitch Engage ( talk) 05:20, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
'Twilight Breaking Dawn Part 1 (2011)' contains a Deus Ex Machina when Jacob Black "imprints" on Bella Swan-Cullen's child. There is no mention that a child can be "imprinted" or that "imprinted" people can not be hurt by the Coven Werewolf tribe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.222.30.92 ( talk) 14:07, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
The current section about twilight - "Stephenie Meyer's Twilight Series contained many instances of the same problem, most notably the eventual 'vampiric' powers of the lead character Bella Swan. Her abilities are far reaching, beyond anything that any other character in the series have and are shown at such a time that all previous tension-such as it is-is simply wiped from the story.", seems a little unspecific. I reckon it'd be better removed, or be more specific about the exact event being referred to. Farthin ( talk) 21:54, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
There is a nearly perfect example of deus ex machina at the end, however. Nahuel, for whom there is no previous mention or foreshadowing, appears in the final moments of the book in order to solve the problem of Renesmee and the Volturi. Shanook28 ( talk) 19:29, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
If you want a widely known example of a deus ex machina, you could use Hermione's time-travel charm at the end of HARRY POTTER AND THE PRISONER OF AZKABAN, particularly blatant in the film version. The possibility of time travel had not been mentioned up to that point and, having invented it, Rowling then had to explain why the spell could not be used to solve future problems.
I am puzzled about what the "deus ex machina" in HAMLET is supposed to be. The exchange of swords? It certainly looks clumsy in the original script, but in many productions Hamlet deliberately arranges the exchange, and it certainly doesn't avert the tragic ending. CharlesTheBold ( talk) 21:46, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
Going with the request that examples be discussed here first, I think the ending of Transformers 2 could well qualify (Spoilers ahead)
The main human character has died, a medic uses defibrilator pads to revive him and fails, he is dead with no apparent way of coming back. Cut to some sort of dream sequence where the character is floating in the clouds and is told by a god like transformer in the clouds that he has done good. Bang, back to the real world and he jumps up to carry on the story with no sign he just nearly died. Given that there is litteraly a machine 'god' in the sky which appears from nowhere and solves the problem, I'm tempted to think this is deliberate (except that might be a touch sophisticated for Michael Bay)-- ThePaintedOne ( talk) 16:49, 7 July 2009 (UTC)
I'm not very clear on deus ex machina, but would the person at the end of The Hobbit count? You would be 100% sure that Bilbo would kill Smaug, but it's some random person who had used a single arrow in Smaug's (left?) breast. Correct or incorrect? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.198.214.86 ( talk) 02:41, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
I think this is overemphasing Wikipedia's need for proof. An unbelievable situation needs no one saying 'this is unbelievable'. An unbelievable situation remains unbelievable. Ok, it might help for some critic to denounce a plot as unbelievable but most people know a plot is unbelievable and the solution has come from nowhere. 78.146.246.181 ( talk) 11:35, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
No not really that easy. All fiction is "Unbelievable" to some extent. The word use above was "contrived" but even that applies to pretty much any story when viewd from the outside. Take the comments about Superman (the movie) also on this page - I fail to see why someone should be surprised that Superman can alter time, when he can stop bullets, fly, leap tall buildings etc etc. It is all part of the story. You could complain that altering time is way harder than jumping tall buildings, but there you are applying real world logic to a fictional world. The story is all about Superman doing amazing things, so you shouldn't be surprised when he does something amazing. Same with Harry Potter and time travel. The whole final 3rd of the Prisoner of Azkaban is taken up with the time travel bit and time travel was introduced throughout the book, although not obviously. So time travel is a key part of the story, it is hardly sprung on the reader in the last 5 pages to bring the story to a happy but unexpected ending. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.253.2.25 ( talk) 13:55, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
Considering the number of times DEM is used in deliberate ways for comedic or ironic purposes would be a good idea to add a "comedic use of DEM" section? Numerous people want to add Mel Brooks or Dodgeball as examples. Another example is the MST3K episode Mitchell in which Joel escapes the Satellite of Love via a never heretofore known escape pod called the Deus Ex Machina (though Mike butchered the pronunciation). This seems like it might resolve some of the issues raised on this page. Furthermore, I think it would in fact add to an understanding of what DEM is, since this has become its dominate use in mainstream film, books, etc... While DEM does seem to have a negative connotation to it, a plot device can be neither good or bad, it is just chosen by the creator. When chosen by a creator becuase they backed themselves into a corner and couldn't do anything else, then, yes, it is lazy. However, when used for comedic or ironic purposes, this is a completely valid use of the plot device since it is deliberate, obvious and often enjoyed by the audience, which is, of course, the purpose of comedy. In addition, it also serves as a meta-fiction, commenting on the ridiculousness of the DEM device as used previously. So I would suggest adding a section on that type of use. This would also help avoid confusion between different ways in which the device is used.-- Priamus2020 ( talk) 00:42, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
In the novel and play The Bad Seed the mother realizes that she has passed a genetic bad seed from her serial–killer mother on to her serial-killer 8–year–old daughter. She unsuccessfully tries to kill both herself and the child, but only succeeds in killing herself, leaving her daughter alive to continue to kill and to pass on the bad seed. However, the Hays Code would not permit movies in which crime was successful. Both suicide and murder were crimes, so in the 1956 film the ending of the story was changed to have the mother survive her suicide attempt and, more important here, a completely new deus ex machina final scene was created in which the daughter goes out on a dock in a rainstorm to try to recover the fruits of her crime and is killed by a lightning bolt. The new ending for the movie totally reversed the climax of the book and play and is one of the greatest modern examples of deus ex machina. Could we include the film as an example in the article, perhaps in a sentence saying something about deus ex machina sometimes being forced on drama by external forces? I haven't been bold on this one because this article seems fairly well tuned at this point and I wanted others to have a chance to comment first. TRANSPORTERMAN ( TALK) 15:23, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
Surely the Sleeping God at the end of The Night's Dawn Trilogy (Peter F. Hamilton)---who rather magically makes everything OK again after three books' worth of almost continual disaster---is a perfect, honest (non-ironic) DEM? 150.203.35.113 ( talk) 06:03, 28 January 2010 (UTC)
In Avatar, half the movie is dedicated to explaining how the Na'vi and the entire Pandoran biosphere works together, so how could this be DEM? It is only a logical response from the eco-system to attack the invaders, and it had been hinted many times that it everything was working and thinking together. Then main character even asked for it to happen.
It does not sound like DEM to me.
ItWasThatGuy! (
talk)
15:24, 3 February 2010 (UTC)
If the examples being presented in the Modern Use section actually use the phrase "Deus ex machina" within them (i.e., the Dodgeball or Donnie Darko examples), then they seem okay for that section. But to simply start listing examples of any DEM usage in literature/film is going to quickly create a ridiculously extensive list in no time. Examples should be limited to those that actually acknowledge themselves as a DEM, as that makes them noteworthy enough for the article. ChargersFan ( talk) 01:15, 11 February 2010 (UTC)
I'd suggest making a reference to the 2001 film donnie darko in which he actually mutters the words DEM due to the fact that he's in a subsequent tangent unniverse. [1] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.191.159.17 ( talk) 07:04, 17 February 2010 (UTC)
References
Surely one of the best known, and an extreme example of, is where Brian falls from a tower and is saved by a passing space ship. Mannafredo ( talk) 11:57, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
I don't think either qualifies as a deus ex machina and should be removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Wilkyisdashiznit ( talk • contribs) 04:47, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
The first paragraph seemed messed up, so I changed it back to what it was a few edits ago. I saved the messed up part, as it seemed to be part of another section:
A deus ex machina ( /ˈdeɪ.əs ɛks ˈmɑːkinə/ or /ˈdiː.əs ɛks ˈmækɨnə/, [1] ==Ancient uses== The Greek tragedian Euripides is often criticized for his frequent use of the deus ex machina. More than half of Euripides's extant tragedies employ a deus ex machina in their resolution and some critics go so far as to claim that Euripides invented the deus ex |title=The Arabian Nights Reader|first=Ulrich|last=Marzolph|publisher= Wayne State University Press|year=2006|isbn=0814332595|pages=241–2}}</ref> Just when Harun is about to have Ja'far executed for his failure, a deus ex machina occurs when the murderer suddenly reveals himself, [2] claiming to be the woman's husband. [3] Daedalus733 ( talk) 19:48, 13 March 2010 (UTC)
References
In the LucasArts video game The Curse of Monkey Island, the hero Guybrush Threepwood finds himself trapped in a quicksand pit. The only way to get out is reaching a life-saving vine that, as for most of the things on Plunder island, has a plaque near it. This one explains that its latin name is "Arborealis Deusexmachinas" (reference: World of Monkey Island, a fan web page about the Monkey Island series). Marzios ( talk) 22:37, 15 march 2010 (UTC)
The Natural and Pineapple Express are not examples of DEM. Neither is Dodgeball, really, but its writers seemed to think so. DEM properly comes at the end of a narrative and features a character unseen up to that point. Ifnkovhg ( talk) 04:06, 24 March 2010 (UTC)
Episode [1x19] of the TV series Lost bears the title "Deus Ex Machina". In a nutshell, the survivors of the plane crash find a previously unnoticed seaplane perched in the jungle canopy, which miraculously contains a functioning radio. Unfortunately, just as they manage to make contact with their potential rescuers, the plane falls, destroying the radio. In my opinion, this is an extremely well-executed example of both dramatic irony and deus ex machina. After all, if the plane had not fallen, the survivors would have been able to relay their position to their rescuers, and the plot would be resolved. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think it should be noted here for further reference. Perhaps a section on irony in combination with deus ex machina could be added to the article, if more examples can be found. 70.181.149.37 ( talk) 04:04, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
The editors of this page will know whether this is relevant or not but the satirical film (and book) Thank You For Smoking contains a hilarious (and clever) scene that highlights the cringe-worthy use of DEM in cinema.
Jeff Megall: Sony has a futuristic sci-fi movie they're looking to make.
Nick Naylor: Cigarettes in space?
Jeff Megall: It's the final frontier, Nick.
Nick Naylor: But wouldn't they blow up in an all oxygen environment?
Jeff Megall: Probably. But it's an easy fix. One line of dialogue. 'Thank God we invented the... you know, whatever device.'
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0427944/quotes
Use at your leisure. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.67.115.253 ( talk) 11:04, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
Removed this from the examples as it's a previously set-up rescue, not a deus ex machina. The source used was from an author's personal web site. The screenwriter himself explains why it's not a DEM in the Creative Screenwriting podcast 29th Oct 2010 edition. Jumble Jumble ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 11:07, 3 November 2010 (UTC).
My research indicates that the phrase is not from Horace's poem. Rather, the Oxford English Dictionary says that the Latin phrase is a translation of a Greek phrase.
You can search Horace's poem for the phrase here: http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/horace/arspoet.shtml but you will not find it.
I am unsure about how to go about correcting wikipedia.
Cheers,
Paul. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.32.130.104 ( talk) 05:55, 1 May 2011 (UTC)
Wiktionary has the standard classic pronunciation: IPA: /ˈdɛ.ʊs/ (Sort of like "day-oos", but shorter) I've always heard this pronounced the classical way also. Should we add an alternate pronunciation with the correct/classical way? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.116.87.110 ( talk) 20:17, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Why not just do it yourself? 173.216.128.176 ( talk) 00:55, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Could someone who knows the topic fix that, or erase the entire section? Cuardin ( talk) 12:29, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
It was a lot weirder before I trimmed a bit (and before it disappeared completely, of course). As the paragraph that I deleted went on, it made less and less sense. It kind of dissolved into complete nonsense at the end. It was either a prank, or very badly translated text. RIP Piano in the bushes. You were enjoyed. --
Andylindsay (
talk)
23:13, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
I remember the movie Mars Attacks! has a thoroughly ridiculous example, when the attacking Martians, with advanced technology, amazing weapons that can absorb a nuclear missile and convert it into a balloon etc, start blowing up whenever a Slim Whitman musical number is played! This finally saves the earth-lings. I thought it was neat, in keeping with the rather crass, yet subtle spirit of the movie. Is it worth a mention? NarasMG ( talk) 06:03, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
The translation "god out of the machine" seems to be wrong. It should be "god in the machine" or "from/of the machine", like "ex libris". So "a seemingly unsolvable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention" of a supposed "god in/of the machine", not from outside.
You could call "the market" in economics a deus ex machina.
Mass effect can be added to the video game section of this article — Preceding unsigned comment added by Julian Grebe ( talk • contribs) 08:43, 10 March 2012 (UTC)
I don't see how the Mass Effect 3 ending is deus ex machina according to the article cited. The matter is still very much under debate. -- 63.148.11.11 ( talk) 13:44, 21 March 2012 (UTC)sam
It fits the definition perfectly. Unsolvable problem: Reapers are destroying all life in the galaxy with no conventional solution available. Contrived and unexpected intervention by a new character: the Star-God appears abruptly and offers to end the Reaper threat. What's the debate? 99.32.177.26 ( talk) 03:17, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
The Star Child is not a case of deus ex machina. He is there to explain the situation, not solve the problem. The Crucible itself may be a case of deus ex machina, however, as the previous two games never mentioned the past cycles building a super-weapon to destroy the Reapers and it appears abruptly at the beginning of Mass Effect 3. Shanook28 ( talk) 05:35, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
The Star Child is the Catalyst, aka the Citadel itself. The Crucible is the other half of the tool that is capable (somehow) of doing one of three distinct things, hence the three endings. The Star Child IS the tool, literally. He explains your choices as well, of course. But since he is the Citadel, and the Crucible combines to make one object, he is the solution to the problem. It wasn't clear up until that point that the Citadel was even a character instead of an object. If that argument is deemed a failure, I have another. Now, yes, the Citadel has been around since the beginning and the Catalyst and Crucible were around for most of the third game. But the definition as read here calls for "some new event, character, ability, or object." The scene with the Star Child is most definitely an unexpected and contrived event, and arguably the three heretofore unmentioned abilities may also qualify, IMO. 99.32.177.26 ( talk) 01:15, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
Incorrect, the Citadel is the Catalyst's home, not the Catalyst. The Catalyst is not an unexpected event, it is one of the 3 main plot points (build the Crucible, gather forces, find the Catalyst) and a driving force behind a lot of the game (going to Thessia, going to Cerberus, going to the Citadel). What it is is unexpected, but the Catalyst itself is not newly introduced at the end of the game and is known about from early on in ME3. The Catalyst also solves nothing, it mearly relays information on what the Crucible does, it's Shepard, the Crucible, and the Citadel which solves the problem. Seeing as though it's a plot device that is introduced early in ME3 and doesn't actually solve anything in the end I have removed it. 81.155.99.127 ( talk) 17:31, 29 June 2012 (UTC)
I find the debate over this to be nit picking at best. You may as well remove the Lord of the Flies' Deus ex machina because the boys created signal fires, foreshadowing their rescue. Just because Mass Effect 3 foreshadows the Crucible, the Catalyst, and Shepard's involvement in uniting the two doesn't make the ending any less of a Deus ex machina. I mean, why even argue it? The Reapers, of which the Star Child/Catalyst is the head member, fancy themselves unknowable God-like beings. The Star Child shows up literally out of nowhere at the end, when all hope seems lost, to offer 3 different solutions that work "just because." It is literally one of the most straight-forward examples of Deus ex machina in videogames ever to exist, but we're arguing that it doesn't qualify as Deus ex machina because it involves 3 different factors conveniently solving everything instead of just one factor, among other specific things. I will concede that the Catalyst specifically isn't a Deus ex machina (even though it is a literal god in the machine), but that doesn't change that the ending still relies on Deus ex machnia to solve its primary problem. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.22.217.124 ( talk) 01:36, 8 August 2012 (UTC)
It's not deus ex machina as you're told well in advance that you need the Catalyst and the Crucible to stop the Reapers and all of the choices are foreshadowed throughout the game (Destroy being the primary objective of the galaxy, Control being the Illusive Man's goal, Synthesis being essentially what the Reapers were doing). You're told that the Crucible joined with the Catalyst will stop the Reapers, and you do exactly that in the end. What option you choose or the Catalyst being an AI within the Citadel does not change that in any way. The entry also claims that organic/synthetic conflict is "the series' primary problem", which is entirely inaccurate: you sought to stop the Reapers in the first game, sought to stop the Reapers in the second game, sought to stop the Reapers in the third game, and stop the Reapers at the end of the third game. The idea of organic/synthetic conflict is the reason why the Catalyst was created and why it created the Reapers, but the ending does not revolve around that conflict; in fact, the Catalyst itself explicitly states that Destroy is not a solution. CaiusRagnarok ( talk) 18:53, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
An awesome, shameless use of DEM can be found in "The Angry Beavers" S4 E7 "Moby Dopes" where Norbert and Daggit are saved from a rampaging Killer Whale by a tyrannosaurus rex. Norbert: Where in the name of deus ex machina did that T-Rex come from? 118.209.130.77 ( talk) 04:31, 16 August 2012 (UTC)
just wanting to see if it's really noteworthy to point out that China isn't "China" in China & that "deus ex machina" is logically identical to those little stickers on the bottom of various goods that says...
"made in China"
pointless? not really. ironic? totally. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.218.93.150 ( talk) 07:25, 3 November 2012 (UTC)
Only on Wikipedia could an article about a literary device provide as illustrations Greek tragedy and The Lord of the Flies, on the one hand, and a "Simpsons" episode on the other! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Partnerfrance ( talk • contribs) 19:08, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
Should Stargate SG-1's use of the idea that a third shot from a Zat'nik'tel disintegrates a target be mentioned. They only used it to dispose of a body in season 2 and stopped talking about it afterward. - William slattery ( talk) 23:07, 2 March 2013 (UTC)
Eagles can see a rat one mile away. Apply it to a hypothetical giant eagle and you have a one hundred mile long vision. Add to it the fact that Gandalf knew exactly where Frodo and Sam were (Mount Doom) and the hope that they were still alive and it was not only POSSIBLE but TOO EASY to the Eagles finding the Hobbits.
Therefore stop calling this scene a Deus Ex Machina because it isn't. 189.81.74.9 ( talk) 20:06, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
Shouldn't the game Deus Ex be in this line under computer games. At the end of part one you're defeated or has to surrender and you end up in a cell. Then suddenly Daedelus hacks the door. The name of the game is also a reference to this subject. 193.11.163.141 ( talk) 17:18, 23 September 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm a bit peeved that someone has used The Lord of the Flies, The Lord of the Rings and The War of the Worlds as examples. In the case of The War of the Worlds where you have that old-school, more hard-sciency, less literary material, if you are quite involved in the story as a reader you can be forgiven for feeling a bit cheated with the ending. With the Lord of the Flies, the contributor has redeemed himself somewhat by qualifying his inclusion of that great novel. In the case of The Lord of the Rings, however, I just don't see where he is coming from. The phrase 'Deus ex machina' is defined in the article as an "...unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object"... to read: it should be too convenient and not in keeping with the rest of the fiction. The eagles dropping in was a piece of luck, but this is Heroic fantasy... such devices are essential to the genre, and the eagles were not quickly invented and inserted to get Tolkien out of trouble. The man was far too invested in his work to be accused of any cheapness, and the suggestion of cheapness makes me choke. I'm too upset to correct this article myself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GetSnufflegartened ( talk • contribs) 04:36, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
Happy new year. I've reinstated the example, linking the reference. I have also added a reference to Eucatastrohe and a quote of Tolkien's where he describes the eagles as 'machine' (in quotes). 85.181.4.145 ( talk) 14:40, 1 January 2014 (UTC)
I propose that Lord of the Flies be removed from the examples, or the reference be heavily rewritten. Though the source is solid it does not simply state that the ending of the book is DEM. In fact it goes on to say:
As noted in William Golding, the author fought in the Royal Navy during WWII onboard a destroyer, and was briefly involved in the pursuit and sinking of the Bismarck. It's hardly a stretch of the imagination to concede that the ending to Lord of the Flies was indeed a plot device (ie, "gimmick"), but one based on his wanting to make a deep sociopolitical statement, not the shallow 'cop-out' that the article currently implies. Using it as an example of deus ex machina demonstrates great ignorance unbefitting of an encyclopedia. nagualdesign ( talk) 18:54, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
If you're happy with the current wording, I'm satisfied that it be retained in the examples. After all, critics have indeed argued that the ending is DEM, and the source expands upon that discourse in a well-written NPOV manner. The problem I had with this and other examples is that they were written in WP's voice as though things are definitely DEM. Thanks for the help, Mangoe. Kind regards, nagualdesign ( talk) 21:51, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
I've taken out the section about the infinite improbability drive from Hitchhiker's guide because it is uncited and because I don't see that a citation is going to be forthcoming. But don't let me stop anyone from finding a real reference for the claim. Mangoe ( talk) 14:12, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
It seems ironic that asimov's fascination and use of deus ex machina in the Foundation series and I, Robot is not included in this article. The irony of its use in I,Robot where Asimov seems to take its more literal meaning and the irony of its omission in Wikipedia the modern realization of azimov's Encyclopedia Galactica from his Foundation series are notable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.137.244.79 ( talk) 02:01, 8 April 2014 (UTC)
I added an entry into modern examples of Deus ex machina, yet it was removed today. Can you enlighten me as to why this example should have been removed? Frankly, I find the "modern examples" section interesting -- if the examples there are good. Yet it appears as though others have listed examples that have later been removed. Sure, perhaps one doesn't want 50 examples here, that isn't really necessary. But there are so few modern examples currently, that there really is room for more.
Here is what I added yesterday, please enlighten me as to why this shouldn't be in the list:
At the end of the film "Jurassic Park" (1993), Grant, Sattler, Tim and Lex are cornered by two Velociraptors in the Visitor Center. Suddenly a Tyrannosaurus appears from off-screen, attacking and killing the Velociraptors allowing Grant and everyone to escape. Not only was the Tyrannosaurus too large to enter through any doors of the Visitor Center, it was unmotivated and didn't allow the ultimate confrontation between man and Velociraptor to be solved by the characters in the story. Classic deus ex machina.
76.175.167.85 (
talk)
03:54, 2 May 2014 (UTC)
Hi everyone-
I wanted to introduce myself. I am taking a look at this page and editing it for my graduate theater history class at Brooklyn College. Here is a list of my proposed edits based on research that I am doing. Please let me know your thoughts. Thanks!
Structure (sections should be flushed out more and organized better) a. Origins, Greek, Roman (if any), Renaissance, Neoclassical, Modern, etc. 2. Discussion on Aristotle, Horace, and any other critic 3. Flush out the examples a. Shakespeare uses it (does he)-how? 4. Influence over theater a. Why do we care? 5. More/better pictures a. Possibly a timeline 6. Term usage a. Do we still use the term to discuss magical plot endings? Has a different term been coined?
Jsattler07 ( talk) 17:07, 20 October 2014 (UTC)
As someone noted above, the list of examples could use extension. Is there something wrong with mentioning
Donnie Darko? It's a great example, it's talked a lot about above. If it's any help, the director Richard Kelly had an extended scene directly addressing the mechanism that had to get cut out of the film because it was too lengthy. It's on the deleted scenes of the original DVD.
Squish7 (
talk)
04:28, 4 April 2015 (UTC) Please ping me with [[User:Squish7]]
whenever replying to me.
māchina f (genitive māchinae); first declension
Literally from Latin: machination from god, scheme from god, plan from god. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Davedudie ( talk • contribs)
Hey, I'm new to editing on this site as opposed to simply reading it, so sorry if I missed anything or went about this the wrong way, and also sorry that I end up getting so verbose in this entry, but I changed an instance of the pronoun "himself" to "themself", since the pronoun refers to a hypothetical writer whose gender is left unspecified. However, since the phrase in which this pronoun appeared was in quotation marks, and since there was no superscript hyperlinked number enclosed in square brackets indicating that the phrase was a verbatim quote from one of this article's sources, I am unsure whether the quotation marks are supposed to convey that the phrase was indeed intended to be a verbatim quote, or that the phrase expresses an opinion which is included for the sake of making the reader aware that such opinions exist rather than making the article itself explicitly express said opinion to the reader. If the quotation marks are in fact supposed to convey that their contents are a verbatim quote, then I suggest that either the source of the quote be cited and the word "themself" be enclosed in square brackets, or that the quotation marks be removed for the time being. If the quotation marks are there for the other reason I hypothesised above, then I believe that the article is acceptable as-is. AriaLyric ( talk) 21:29, 13 February 2017 (UTC)
Tolkien's concept of 'eucatastrophe' has nothing to do with 'deus ex machina'. It is a sudden turn in a story, but typically one that has been earned. The example Tolkien gives is this, from The Black Bull of Norroway:
Seven years I served for thee:
The glassy hill I clomb for thee:
The bluidy shirt I wrang for thee:
And wilt thou not wauken and turn to me?
He heard, and turned to her.
The material I have removed, conflating this concept with 'deus ex machina', contains no evidence that either Tolkien, or anybody else, believed that the two concepts had anything in common. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChengduTeacher ( talk • contribs) 04:41, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
== God from Machinations
I didn't know until today that "Deus Ex Machina" means "god FROM the machine". I guess I should've caught the "ex", but I didn't. What is the word for a god who has made the universe as a clockwork automaton? The goal of making an automaton is that it require no intervention once it has been created, wound up, and set to running, but will do what it is supposed to do guided ONLY by the clockwork driving it. If you believe in that kind of god, you believe it is a kind of blasphemy to say that God intervenes. If the Universe that God made was perfect from the git-go, everything that was ever going to happen was willed by that God into the Big Bang (or similar event) at the moment timulled was pe began. God would need to fix something only if God's design wasn't perfect. So what is the name for this conception of a god (the Deist god, the God AS Machine, not God FROM Machine) and would you consider posting a disambiguation-link at the top if the phrase for that is sufficiently similar to "Deus Ex Machina"? 74.64.104.99 ( talk) 11:09, 15 March 2020 (UTC)Christopher L. Simpson
It's called that because in the old Greek theatre they had a contraption called a roll-out, in which a god was brought out to the stage. The Latin word does not necessarily mean a machine with working parts, Virgil uses it of the Trojan horse. Suggest you read Aristotle's Poetics, tr. Butcher. It is nothing to do with the universe! Esedowns ( talk) 22:15, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
In "Oliver Twist," the fact that Rose is his aunt is central to the plot -- not a last-minute addition to resolve a problem. His grandfather recognizes early that there is something familiar about Oliver's appearance. The story is not about a poor boy who gets lucky, but of a wronged boy who is restored to his rightful place. A large portion of the story is devoted to the machinations of the other heir who seeks to deny Oliver of his inheritance. The fact that Rose is his aunt is central to the plot and without that fact, major portions of the book would need to be removed entirely. Dickens has a habit of revealing such hidden facts until the end of the story, but I don't think this is what the DEM phrase is meant to convey. 2600:1700:51B3:5630:D92B:8D1D:A02:9729 ( talk) 04:29, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
I can't decide if I like the informal tone of "At the end, Heracles shows up" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dgrrr ( talk • contribs) 22:25, 16 December 2021 (UTC)