GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Article (
|
visual edit |
history) ·
Article talk (
|
history) ·
Watch
Reviewer: Catrìona ( talk · contribs) 16:15, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
Please reply individually under each of my comments and mark with Done,
Fixed,
Added,
Not done,
Doing..., or
Removed, followed by any comment you'd like to make.
Catrìona (
talk)
16:15, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
@ 3E1I5S8B9RF7: I'm sorry it's taken me so long to get to this. Some preliminary comments follow. Catrìona ( talk) 16:34, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
Around 32,000 people, mostly Armenians, were settled by the Soviets in these cleared areas.Is that referring to the Meskhetian Turk areas, or all areas from which Soviet ethnic minorities were deported?
Done To the Meskhetian territories. Corrected to be absolutely clear.--
3E1I5S8B9RF7 (
talk)
08:00, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
by the Sovietsalso somewhat vague, can you be more specific about the specific organizations/individuals responsible? Catrìona ( talk) 06:27, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
remained unknown outside the country for a long timevague, can you give a specific time interval?
Done Several sources indicate that the question of the Meskhetian Turks gained widespread attention in the West after the 1989 riots in Uzbekistan. Corrected.--
3E1I5S8B9RF7 (
talk)
08:00, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
Done --
3E1I5S8B9RF7 (
talk)
08:56, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
adopted the decree N 942 rs which provided 857 t of flour and 213 t of cereals to the settlers from the Georgian SSRuse Template:convert or some other way of converting these units to something which is more familiar. I'm also not sure what "the decree N 942 rs" means; perhaps explain it in a note?
Done Converted tonne to kg and pounds. As for the decree, it was just the official naming code, which cannot be translated.--
3E1I5S8B9RF7 (
talk)
08:56, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
Done--
3E1I5S8B9RF7 (
talk)
08:56, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
The NKVD forces only gave a short notification to the populationDoes this mean a brief message, or were they expected to leave on short notice?
Done--
3E1I5S8B9RF7 (
talk)
08:56, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
One Meskhetian Turk described the lament of his people with these words:Non encyclopedic language. Suggest "(name), a Meskhetian Turk, said:" You might also consider a quote box for this quote.
Done It was placed in a quote box. The source did not give any name, the quote was attributed to a "surgeon from Kazakhstan" to protect his anonymity from potential threat of a backlash in that reagion.--
3E1I5S8B9RF7 (
talk)
08:56, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
The harsh living conditions in the Uzbek Soviet Republic, including bad food, a lack of medicine, the process of adapating to the new climatethis sentence appears to be closely paraphrased from the source
Done
The Meskhetian Turks were one of the six ethnic groups from the Caucasus who were deported in 1943 and 1944 in their entirety by the Soviet secret police—the other five were the Chechens, the Ingush, the Balkars, the Karachays and the Kalmyksthis statement is cited to the entire page range of a research paper. It should list more specific page/pages for better verifiability
Done
The expulsion was executed by NKVD chief Lavrentiy Beria. It was ordered by the Soviet Premier Joseph Stalin.This statement also needs the specific page number
Done
Done
Modern interpretations view this as a pretext by Stalin to remove the potentially unloyal, pro-Turkish group from the Turkish border area, thereby extending his power in this region.This is original research since the only source cited for this sweeping statement is a single newspaper article. Also, it's closely paraphrased.
Done
The purpose of these settlements was to act as a source of cheap labor for the development of remote parts of the Soviet Union.closely paraphrased from [1]
Done
Done
Even in the books about Soviet deportations by historians Alexander Nekrich and Robert Conquest the Meskhetian Turks were given much less space than the other resettled ethnic groups.verbatim copyvio
Done - Changed.
"For the first twelve years of their exile, Meskhetian Turk special settlers' led lives of extreme deprivation". This is what it says in the source.If so, than it would be the sixth instance of copyvio/close paraphrasing found in this article.
Done - The sixth and last one. (See also copy edit below, if case you forgotten)
Hi. I hope that the copy edit did what you wished. Any issues, please feel free to let me know. I probably pushed the bounds of what counts as "copy editing" a bit. Hopefully not unduly.
It occurred to me that if I were assessing this article, I would be unhappy with the length of the Aftermath, much of the content of which is only loosely connected to the title of the article. If I were the nominating editor I may be inclined to slide the entire Aftermath into a new article ("Meskhetian Turk Diaspora"?) with an extensive introduction summarising the top three quarters of this article, and replace it with a much briefer summary of events 1945-2018. Obviously, feel free to ignore this suggestion if it is not felt to be helpful.
The caption "Young Meskhetian Turks wearing T-shirts that read: 14 November, 1944. We have not forgotten the deportation." This is not what the info attached to it says ( "We have not forgotten") and the text under the date on each tee shirt is completely different. To the extent that I strongly doubt that they both read the same. Possibly 'Young Meskhetian Turks wearing T-shirts bearing the date 14 November, 1944 and commemorating the deportation.'? Gog the Mild ( talk) 10:40, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
Hello. The presumed Kipchak ancestry of the Meskhetian Muslims mentioned in the background section is a highly controversial hypothesis. In fact, no medieval source mentions where exactly David IV of Georgia settled his Kipchak mercenaries. The cited source clearly states that this is only the "Turkish view" and one "version" of the events while also discussing the opposing viewpoint. This should be clarified in the article and balanced by including the prevalent rival theory. -- Kober Talk 15:28, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
I am listing this as 2nd opinion because the nominator has a history of failed nominations on similar topics, I think this review merits further scrutiny. In addition, the GOCE review greatly improved the prose issues but some problems remain. I've checked many of the references and they all support the content. Edit: this appears not to be the case, per the NPOV issue discussed above. I will subject sources to further scrutiny. Catrìona ( talk) 09:41, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
The NPOV issue.
The Meskhetian Turks, also known as Akhiska Turks, originally lived in the Meskheti region in the south of present day Georgia. There is no consensus among historians regarding their origin. Either they are ethnic Turks or Turkicized Georgians who converted to Islam during the Ottoman rule of the region.
The ethnic origins of Meskhetian Turks are the subject of a politically charged debate. The basic issue revolves around this question: Are Meskhetian Turks in fact ethnic Turks, or are they ethnic Georgians who at some stage in history converted to Islam?
Most Meskhetians are ethnic Turks – of whom, according to the 2010 census, there are an additional 105,058 – whilst some are Turkified Georgians. They are Sunni Muslims.
Other sources.
I hope that this helps.
Gog the Mild ( talk) 21:28, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
I thought I had checked the sources pretty carefully, but upon doing additional checks today I noticed a sentence that was a verbatim copyright violation, one of four instances (see above). There was also a statement that did not appear to match the source, which I removed. Since I am not able to access all sources (and neither can Earwig), personally I do not feel comfortable promoting the article. Catrìona ( talk) 00:36, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Article (
|
visual edit |
history) ·
Article talk (
|
history) ·
Watch
Reviewer: Catrìona ( talk · contribs) 16:15, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
Please reply individually under each of my comments and mark with Done,
Fixed,
Added,
Not done,
Doing..., or
Removed, followed by any comment you'd like to make.
Catrìona (
talk)
16:15, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
@ 3E1I5S8B9RF7: I'm sorry it's taken me so long to get to this. Some preliminary comments follow. Catrìona ( talk) 16:34, 6 September 2018 (UTC)
Around 32,000 people, mostly Armenians, were settled by the Soviets in these cleared areas.Is that referring to the Meskhetian Turk areas, or all areas from which Soviet ethnic minorities were deported?
Done To the Meskhetian territories. Corrected to be absolutely clear.--
3E1I5S8B9RF7 (
talk)
08:00, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
by the Sovietsalso somewhat vague, can you be more specific about the specific organizations/individuals responsible? Catrìona ( talk) 06:27, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
remained unknown outside the country for a long timevague, can you give a specific time interval?
Done Several sources indicate that the question of the Meskhetian Turks gained widespread attention in the West after the 1989 riots in Uzbekistan. Corrected.--
3E1I5S8B9RF7 (
talk)
08:00, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
Done --
3E1I5S8B9RF7 (
talk)
08:56, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
adopted the decree N 942 rs which provided 857 t of flour and 213 t of cereals to the settlers from the Georgian SSRuse Template:convert or some other way of converting these units to something which is more familiar. I'm also not sure what "the decree N 942 rs" means; perhaps explain it in a note?
Done Converted tonne to kg and pounds. As for the decree, it was just the official naming code, which cannot be translated.--
3E1I5S8B9RF7 (
talk)
08:56, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
Done--
3E1I5S8B9RF7 (
talk)
08:56, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
The NKVD forces only gave a short notification to the populationDoes this mean a brief message, or were they expected to leave on short notice?
Done--
3E1I5S8B9RF7 (
talk)
08:56, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
One Meskhetian Turk described the lament of his people with these words:Non encyclopedic language. Suggest "(name), a Meskhetian Turk, said:" You might also consider a quote box for this quote.
Done It was placed in a quote box. The source did not give any name, the quote was attributed to a "surgeon from Kazakhstan" to protect his anonymity from potential threat of a backlash in that reagion.--
3E1I5S8B9RF7 (
talk)
08:56, 9 September 2018 (UTC)
The harsh living conditions in the Uzbek Soviet Republic, including bad food, a lack of medicine, the process of adapating to the new climatethis sentence appears to be closely paraphrased from the source
Done
The Meskhetian Turks were one of the six ethnic groups from the Caucasus who were deported in 1943 and 1944 in their entirety by the Soviet secret police—the other five were the Chechens, the Ingush, the Balkars, the Karachays and the Kalmyksthis statement is cited to the entire page range of a research paper. It should list more specific page/pages for better verifiability
Done
The expulsion was executed by NKVD chief Lavrentiy Beria. It was ordered by the Soviet Premier Joseph Stalin.This statement also needs the specific page number
Done
Done
Modern interpretations view this as a pretext by Stalin to remove the potentially unloyal, pro-Turkish group from the Turkish border area, thereby extending his power in this region.This is original research since the only source cited for this sweeping statement is a single newspaper article. Also, it's closely paraphrased.
Done
The purpose of these settlements was to act as a source of cheap labor for the development of remote parts of the Soviet Union.closely paraphrased from [1]
Done
Done
Even in the books about Soviet deportations by historians Alexander Nekrich and Robert Conquest the Meskhetian Turks were given much less space than the other resettled ethnic groups.verbatim copyvio
Done - Changed.
"For the first twelve years of their exile, Meskhetian Turk special settlers' led lives of extreme deprivation". This is what it says in the source.If so, than it would be the sixth instance of copyvio/close paraphrasing found in this article.
Done - The sixth and last one. (See also copy edit below, if case you forgotten)
Hi. I hope that the copy edit did what you wished. Any issues, please feel free to let me know. I probably pushed the bounds of what counts as "copy editing" a bit. Hopefully not unduly.
It occurred to me that if I were assessing this article, I would be unhappy with the length of the Aftermath, much of the content of which is only loosely connected to the title of the article. If I were the nominating editor I may be inclined to slide the entire Aftermath into a new article ("Meskhetian Turk Diaspora"?) with an extensive introduction summarising the top three quarters of this article, and replace it with a much briefer summary of events 1945-2018. Obviously, feel free to ignore this suggestion if it is not felt to be helpful.
The caption "Young Meskhetian Turks wearing T-shirts that read: 14 November, 1944. We have not forgotten the deportation." This is not what the info attached to it says ( "We have not forgotten") and the text under the date on each tee shirt is completely different. To the extent that I strongly doubt that they both read the same. Possibly 'Young Meskhetian Turks wearing T-shirts bearing the date 14 November, 1944 and commemorating the deportation.'? Gog the Mild ( talk) 10:40, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
Hello. The presumed Kipchak ancestry of the Meskhetian Muslims mentioned in the background section is a highly controversial hypothesis. In fact, no medieval source mentions where exactly David IV of Georgia settled his Kipchak mercenaries. The cited source clearly states that this is only the "Turkish view" and one "version" of the events while also discussing the opposing viewpoint. This should be clarified in the article and balanced by including the prevalent rival theory. -- Kober Talk 15:28, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
I am listing this as 2nd opinion because the nominator has a history of failed nominations on similar topics, I think this review merits further scrutiny. In addition, the GOCE review greatly improved the prose issues but some problems remain. I've checked many of the references and they all support the content. Edit: this appears not to be the case, per the NPOV issue discussed above. I will subject sources to further scrutiny. Catrìona ( talk) 09:41, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
The NPOV issue.
The Meskhetian Turks, also known as Akhiska Turks, originally lived in the Meskheti region in the south of present day Georgia. There is no consensus among historians regarding their origin. Either they are ethnic Turks or Turkicized Georgians who converted to Islam during the Ottoman rule of the region.
The ethnic origins of Meskhetian Turks are the subject of a politically charged debate. The basic issue revolves around this question: Are Meskhetian Turks in fact ethnic Turks, or are they ethnic Georgians who at some stage in history converted to Islam?
Most Meskhetians are ethnic Turks – of whom, according to the 2010 census, there are an additional 105,058 – whilst some are Turkified Georgians. They are Sunni Muslims.
Other sources.
I hope that this helps.
Gog the Mild ( talk) 21:28, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
I thought I had checked the sources pretty carefully, but upon doing additional checks today I noticed a sentence that was a verbatim copyright violation, one of four instances (see above). There was also a statement that did not appear to match the source, which I removed. Since I am not able to access all sources (and neither can Earwig), personally I do not feel comfortable promoting the article. Catrìona ( talk) 00:36, 9 October 2018 (UTC)