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Not sure if it is just me but I found section 2 'Writer' unreadable. The quote from Roskill is very relevant but some of the other parts, particularly the section from the Amazon review onward, I found very heavy going and switched me off reading further (and I am very interested in Rayner). I stress that it may just be my personal opinion but I think that the section 'Writer' should be factual with the opinions considerably compacted. Boatman 12:41, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Thanks Boatman. I have taken it out. In many cases I am jealous of my own opinions, but re-reading that passage I don't blame you turning off. I put those words in at the time because I was feeling the need to defend Rayner in a way that feels no longer necessary.
Sibadd 20:25, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Certainly of interest, but the current format looks promotional.
'The Westerly Story' - a history of the company and its boats== In early 2006 the Vice-Commodore of the Westerly Owners' Association conceived the idea of writing a history of Westerly and the boats they built. ‘The Westerly Story’ by Brian Easteal and Peter Poland, includes an account of Denys Rayner's role in founding the company, designing its first five models, and assuring its future even while gravely ill. This illustrated 112 page book was privately published in November and copies can be obtained from the WOA Membership Administration Office, 19 Willowdale Close, Petersfield, Hampshire GU32 3PS, UK [1]
Tearlach 04:39, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
I've added some detail on his various commands (I've got the stuff mostly from "Escort"); I've also split the WWII section up a bit, to make it less unwieldy. I trust that's OK with everone. Xyl 54 ( talk) 14:11, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
When this article was written, about 6 years ago, this article made a passing reference to the place Rayner was based, calling it, according to the
sources used, "Londonderry".
Some time after, this was changed, presumably in deference to the
requirements on historical names, to "Londonderry-now Derry"
This was
changed again, in March 2008, to "Derry", claiming justification from
WP:IMOS, specifically (one assumes)
this section.
When I changed it back to the original, as supported by sources, this was immediately reverted, again quoting WP:DERRY.
So my question is, in what corner of the WP universe does
WP:IMOS trump
WP:VERIFY,
WP:NC (geographic names) and (probably)
WP:RETAIN?
More to the point, why does IMOS/DERRY even apply, when the article is not on any Irish subject, and the placename tangentially referred to is neither the city, nor the county, but the RN base on the Foyle for which "Londonderry" was, and is, the correct and
common name?
Xyl 54 (
talk) 17:23, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
I think WP:DERRY is being misread. The compromise was to stop the "constant renaming of articles" not for the name within articles. The content of articles should be consistent (we do not want alternate usage of Derry and Londonderry within the text as a sort of editorial neutrality), but in general the usage in the reliable sources within the article should be followed (unless the majority of sources in the article can be shown to be idiosyncratic or obsolete). This is after all implicitly supported by the primary reason we have redirects, which exist to allow different names to be used for an article. So in this case I think that Londonderry is more appropriate. If this was a discussion about the content of the article Derry City F.C., then the opposite would be true because most of the sources refer to Derry and not Londonderry. -- PBS ( talk) 10:18, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
The sentence in question is not well written. "Returning to her base" could mean "while she was returning" or "after she had returned". Assuming the former meaning, the sentence as it stands says that while the steering of the Pevensey Castle was returning to its base, it broke, which I am sure is not what was intended. That may sound trivial, but considering the grammatical awkwardness of the sentence, many readers may feel that the name given to the base to which the ship (or its steering) was returning is too trivial to merit such a lengthy debate. Now, I have a question. I have not read this man's books. Does he say that the base in question was the stone frigate HMS Ferret? If so, then why not simply say "As the Pevensey Castle was returning to its base, the HMS Ferret..."? If not, is it not something of a double standard to say that the city may not be called Derry because Rayner did not write "Derry", but the word may be linked to the HMS Ferret article although he did not write "HMS Ferret"? Some of the arguments and some of the edits e.g. "Londonderry, now Derry" suggest that "Derry" is an anachronism: a post-1998 name used in reference to a 1955 book. It's not. Thomas Davis, in his 1841 essay "The Irish Parliament of James II", writes, "James landed at Kinsale, 12th March, 1689...and, after receiving many congratulatory addresses, set out for Derry to press the Blockade" (Thomas Davis, selections from his prose and poetry, p. 13). There is not an old name and a new name, but rather two names for the one city, and that is why a convention had to be decided for referring to it. But at the end of the day, if it really is too much for you to say "Derry", the fact is that there is no need to say anything at all, and the article won't suffer one iota! "As the Pevensey Castle was returning to its base, her steering broke in a northerly gale off the mouth of the River Foyle" says it as well, indeed better, than any of the constructions that have been tried so far, and still indicates the geographical location of the mishap. So I have to ask, is it really worth upsetting the whole apple-cart over someting that is of no importance whatever to the article? Scolaire ( talk) 00:22, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Denys Rayner article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Not sure if it is just me but I found section 2 'Writer' unreadable. The quote from Roskill is very relevant but some of the other parts, particularly the section from the Amazon review onward, I found very heavy going and switched me off reading further (and I am very interested in Rayner). I stress that it may just be my personal opinion but I think that the section 'Writer' should be factual with the opinions considerably compacted. Boatman 12:41, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Thanks Boatman. I have taken it out. In many cases I am jealous of my own opinions, but re-reading that passage I don't blame you turning off. I put those words in at the time because I was feeling the need to defend Rayner in a way that feels no longer necessary.
Sibadd 20:25, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Certainly of interest, but the current format looks promotional.
'The Westerly Story' - a history of the company and its boats== In early 2006 the Vice-Commodore of the Westerly Owners' Association conceived the idea of writing a history of Westerly and the boats they built. ‘The Westerly Story’ by Brian Easteal and Peter Poland, includes an account of Denys Rayner's role in founding the company, designing its first five models, and assuring its future even while gravely ill. This illustrated 112 page book was privately published in November and copies can be obtained from the WOA Membership Administration Office, 19 Willowdale Close, Petersfield, Hampshire GU32 3PS, UK [1]
Tearlach 04:39, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
I've added some detail on his various commands (I've got the stuff mostly from "Escort"); I've also split the WWII section up a bit, to make it less unwieldy. I trust that's OK with everone. Xyl 54 ( talk) 14:11, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
When this article was written, about 6 years ago, this article made a passing reference to the place Rayner was based, calling it, according to the
sources used, "Londonderry".
Some time after, this was changed, presumably in deference to the
requirements on historical names, to "Londonderry-now Derry"
This was
changed again, in March 2008, to "Derry", claiming justification from
WP:IMOS, specifically (one assumes)
this section.
When I changed it back to the original, as supported by sources, this was immediately reverted, again quoting WP:DERRY.
So my question is, in what corner of the WP universe does
WP:IMOS trump
WP:VERIFY,
WP:NC (geographic names) and (probably)
WP:RETAIN?
More to the point, why does IMOS/DERRY even apply, when the article is not on any Irish subject, and the placename tangentially referred to is neither the city, nor the county, but the RN base on the Foyle for which "Londonderry" was, and is, the correct and
common name?
Xyl 54 (
talk) 17:23, 26 June 2012 (UTC)
I think WP:DERRY is being misread. The compromise was to stop the "constant renaming of articles" not for the name within articles. The content of articles should be consistent (we do not want alternate usage of Derry and Londonderry within the text as a sort of editorial neutrality), but in general the usage in the reliable sources within the article should be followed (unless the majority of sources in the article can be shown to be idiosyncratic or obsolete). This is after all implicitly supported by the primary reason we have redirects, which exist to allow different names to be used for an article. So in this case I think that Londonderry is more appropriate. If this was a discussion about the content of the article Derry City F.C., then the opposite would be true because most of the sources refer to Derry and not Londonderry. -- PBS ( talk) 10:18, 13 July 2012 (UTC)
The sentence in question is not well written. "Returning to her base" could mean "while she was returning" or "after she had returned". Assuming the former meaning, the sentence as it stands says that while the steering of the Pevensey Castle was returning to its base, it broke, which I am sure is not what was intended. That may sound trivial, but considering the grammatical awkwardness of the sentence, many readers may feel that the name given to the base to which the ship (or its steering) was returning is too trivial to merit such a lengthy debate. Now, I have a question. I have not read this man's books. Does he say that the base in question was the stone frigate HMS Ferret? If so, then why not simply say "As the Pevensey Castle was returning to its base, the HMS Ferret..."? If not, is it not something of a double standard to say that the city may not be called Derry because Rayner did not write "Derry", but the word may be linked to the HMS Ferret article although he did not write "HMS Ferret"? Some of the arguments and some of the edits e.g. "Londonderry, now Derry" suggest that "Derry" is an anachronism: a post-1998 name used in reference to a 1955 book. It's not. Thomas Davis, in his 1841 essay "The Irish Parliament of James II", writes, "James landed at Kinsale, 12th March, 1689...and, after receiving many congratulatory addresses, set out for Derry to press the Blockade" (Thomas Davis, selections from his prose and poetry, p. 13). There is not an old name and a new name, but rather two names for the one city, and that is why a convention had to be decided for referring to it. But at the end of the day, if it really is too much for you to say "Derry", the fact is that there is no need to say anything at all, and the article won't suffer one iota! "As the Pevensey Castle was returning to its base, her steering broke in a northerly gale off the mouth of the River Foyle" says it as well, indeed better, than any of the constructions that have been tried so far, and still indicates the geographical location of the mishap. So I have to ask, is it really worth upsetting the whole apple-cart over someting that is of no importance whatever to the article? Scolaire ( talk) 00:22, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Denys Rayner. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
https://sites.google.com/site/robinettahistory/history/summer-cruise-1938When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 00:06, 8 December 2017 (UTC)