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At this point there is a proliferation of WP articles about electoral lists running for the next general election, which is too much in my opinion. I think that we should write about these "conglomerate" lists in the main parties' articles in cases like this one, where surely the "electoral list" is not equal to the simple "party" in terms of composition, but the list is evidently dominated by the major party in the list (like in this case for PD, but also for the FI list, the Lega list, and actually many other lists running in this election and likely also in past elections). Also, in this case the PD list is actually called Partito Democratico, per un'Italia democratica e progressista (so even not the correct name which this article is called), and it actually has only the PD symbol on its logo! – Definitely another clue that this is just the PD list, plus some little friends... Since we usually do not create a new article for each list in each Italian election (see my examples above, FI, Lega, etc.) I don't see why creating a separate one for this case.
A different instance is the one where the list is formed by comparable parties, like for example Greens and Left Alliance (AVS) or the Italia Viva– Action list, where the list is the merging of the two parties forming it, and not the absorption of smaller parties by the larger one, like in the PD or FI cases. In cases like the AVS one, I am not sure about what is best to do – I would actually also not have the article for the joint list unless it becomes relevant enough (politically, not electorally). My hunch is that generally it suffices to describe elections and electoral lists of parties in their own parties' articles. Yakme ( talk) 12:57, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
In my opinion it should be remain seperated from PD, it's dominated by PD and PD even used their name & Symbol for this alliance but it is still an alliance and unlike FI+allies and Lega+allies IDP has a name Braganza ( talk) 19:30, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
all electoral lists [...] have articlesdefinitely not true, since the FI, Lega and FdI lists do not have their own articles, and rightly so. The IDP case is fundamentally different from AVS, IC, NM, and the comparison cannot be made, because IDP is essentially the PD (similarly to FI Lega etc); while AVS, IC and NM are coalitions of comparatively relevant parties. The single reason why you insist that this must have a different article is that it has a "name", but having a name does not change the essence of the matter: IDP is the PD list at the 2022 election, so it should be a section of the PD article. Yakme ( talk) 07:22, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
So to recap: after more than one week of discussion on the topic of merging this article with Democratic Party (Italy), it looks like we have three editors for the merge, two editors against, and one editor bringing a counterpoint against the merge. Looks still open to more discussion to me. Regarding the issue of the name of this article, I think we can postpone the discussion until we have a final decision on the merge. Yakme ( talk) 10:12, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
the joint list is often referred to in sources as "Democratic and Progressive Italy". Is there proof of the fact that this list is more often referred to as IDP than just PD? From a selective Google search it seems to me that quite the opposite is true, see IDP (20k hits) vs PD (530k hits). Yakme ( talk) 06:25, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
Just a note by me We Continue the Change and We Continue the Change (political party) have two different articles despite the electoral alliance just being "mandate carrier"s of the party PP and these two are in fact one and the same unlike IDP which you can see either as extension of PD or a PD-led electoral alliance Braganza ( talk) 20:45, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
FWIW, I'm mostly on the the side of keeping the standalone article, as it is well-referenced and contains information that might not necessarily be relevant to the article on PD itself (I see parallels with having an article for Populars for Prodi separate from Italian People's Party (1994)). If however at a later date the consensus is to merge the core of this article into the PD's article it wouldn't be the end of the world, but I currently err on the side of caution.-- Autospark ( talk) 16:02, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
As a reminder, the article was moved to the current long name without any consensus. -- Checco ( talk) 20:14, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||
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At this point there is a proliferation of WP articles about electoral lists running for the next general election, which is too much in my opinion. I think that we should write about these "conglomerate" lists in the main parties' articles in cases like this one, where surely the "electoral list" is not equal to the simple "party" in terms of composition, but the list is evidently dominated by the major party in the list (like in this case for PD, but also for the FI list, the Lega list, and actually many other lists running in this election and likely also in past elections). Also, in this case the PD list is actually called Partito Democratico, per un'Italia democratica e progressista (so even not the correct name which this article is called), and it actually has only the PD symbol on its logo! – Definitely another clue that this is just the PD list, plus some little friends... Since we usually do not create a new article for each list in each Italian election (see my examples above, FI, Lega, etc.) I don't see why creating a separate one for this case.
A different instance is the one where the list is formed by comparable parties, like for example Greens and Left Alliance (AVS) or the Italia Viva– Action list, where the list is the merging of the two parties forming it, and not the absorption of smaller parties by the larger one, like in the PD or FI cases. In cases like the AVS one, I am not sure about what is best to do – I would actually also not have the article for the joint list unless it becomes relevant enough (politically, not electorally). My hunch is that generally it suffices to describe elections and electoral lists of parties in their own parties' articles. Yakme ( talk) 12:57, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
In my opinion it should be remain seperated from PD, it's dominated by PD and PD even used their name & Symbol for this alliance but it is still an alliance and unlike FI+allies and Lega+allies IDP has a name Braganza ( talk) 19:30, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
all electoral lists [...] have articlesdefinitely not true, since the FI, Lega and FdI lists do not have their own articles, and rightly so. The IDP case is fundamentally different from AVS, IC, NM, and the comparison cannot be made, because IDP is essentially the PD (similarly to FI Lega etc); while AVS, IC and NM are coalitions of comparatively relevant parties. The single reason why you insist that this must have a different article is that it has a "name", but having a name does not change the essence of the matter: IDP is the PD list at the 2022 election, so it should be a section of the PD article. Yakme ( talk) 07:22, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
So to recap: after more than one week of discussion on the topic of merging this article with Democratic Party (Italy), it looks like we have three editors for the merge, two editors against, and one editor bringing a counterpoint against the merge. Looks still open to more discussion to me. Regarding the issue of the name of this article, I think we can postpone the discussion until we have a final decision on the merge. Yakme ( talk) 10:12, 23 August 2022 (UTC)
the joint list is often referred to in sources as "Democratic and Progressive Italy". Is there proof of the fact that this list is more often referred to as IDP than just PD? From a selective Google search it seems to me that quite the opposite is true, see IDP (20k hits) vs PD (530k hits). Yakme ( talk) 06:25, 29 August 2022 (UTC)
Just a note by me We Continue the Change and We Continue the Change (political party) have two different articles despite the electoral alliance just being "mandate carrier"s of the party PP and these two are in fact one and the same unlike IDP which you can see either as extension of PD or a PD-led electoral alliance Braganza ( talk) 20:45, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
FWIW, I'm mostly on the the side of keeping the standalone article, as it is well-referenced and contains information that might not necessarily be relevant to the article on PD itself (I see parallels with having an article for Populars for Prodi separate from Italian People's Party (1994)). If however at a later date the consensus is to merge the core of this article into the PD's article it wouldn't be the end of the world, but I currently err on the side of caution.-- Autospark ( talk) 16:02, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
As a reminder, the article was moved to the current long name without any consensus. -- Checco ( talk) 20:14, 29 April 2023 (UTC)