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I find it strange that these ruins are identified as Jewish; the SWP-people mentioned nothing about that. In fact; the ruins look more typicallly Roman? And "Deir" means "monastery"? Comments? Huldra ( talk) 23:25, 16 May 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi,

Nice to meet you and thank you for your comments on the article. As you must be aware archeological research has advanced since 1873 and today archeological analysis is much more acurate than in the passt. Archeologist ( Yeivin - 1972, Dar - late 70's, Raviv, Peleg Barkat - 2013) as i cited in the article, who studied the place have reached the conclusion it was a Jewish site, next to an ancient Jewish settlement.

Regarding your second question, i realized the cite i gave wasn't specific enough, so i added a cite to to exact page in the SWP where Palmer elaborates that "Deir" means "monastery". Owenglyndur ( talk) 06:32, 19 May 2024 (UTC) reply

Thank you for your reply, and sorry for being late in replying (I am rather rarely on Wikipedia these days, sorry!)

My questioning is really why these researcher you mention thinks that it is Jewish? What particular structure do they find identifies this grave as Jewish -and not Roman? cheers, Huldra ( talk) 23:06, 11 June 2024 (UTC) reply

As mentioned in the article the tomb is similar to other Jewish tombs found in the Land Of Israel and especialy Jerusalem. I updated the citations on the article and attached Dar's writings on the the area and site. Owenglyndur ( talk) 11:58, 13 June 2024 (UTC) reply

I cannot find in the article what exactly identifies this as a Jewish tomb? Doric style isn't exactly known to be Jewish? And who "Dor" is, is still a mystery to me? And, to repeat: this place is not in Israel, please correct that immediately. Huldra ( talk) 21:14, 17 June 2024 (UTC) reply

I believe the reason that Dar is presented without context is because the relevant part has essentially been copied from the source material. The text in the Wikipedia article currently reads:

A parallel to this kind of niche is found in the central tomb in the necropolis of Khirbet Kurkush, in Dar's opinion, this alcove symbolizes the change of ownership from Jewish to foreign.

Using Google Translate on the cited source the text below can be found on page 118:

As mentioned above, a parallel to this kind of niche is found in the central tomb in the necropolis of Kurkush. As stated above, in Dar's opinion, this alcove symbolizes the change of ownership from Jewish to Gentile.

I have added bolding to indicate where the wording is identical to the source, which considering I used machine translation is striking. This is a copyright violation of the sort found at other articles edited by User:Owenglyndur. Richard Nevell ( talk) 21:58, 17 June 2024 (UTC) reply

As for falsly claiming that this place is "in Israel": that seems to be a pattern, too. A quick look at some of the other articles made by Owenglyndur:

• Stone vessels' cave, cats: Roman sites in Israel and Archaeological sites in Israel, is, I believe, in an area occupied by Israel since 1967.
• Kiryat Arbaya, cats: Former populated places in Israel, for a place in the occuped West Bank
• Kfar Devora, cats: Synagogues in Israel, for a place on the Golan heights, (occupied from Syria, by Israel since 1967)
• Hovlata, cats: Archaeological sites and Israel, for a place clearly in the area occupied by Israel since 1967
• Khirbat el-Lathain, cats: Ruins in Israel, for a place clearly in the area occupied by Israel since 1967
• etc, etc; I just checked a few, and non-Jewish history is completely wiped out of all of the articles. Topic-ban, or full ban (from the copy-right violations)? Huldra ( talk) 22:37, 17 June 2024 (UTC) reply

There are patterns of multiple problematic behaviours here. I have been trying to engage with Owenglyndur on the copyright issue for a while no with little acknowledgement of the issue, and there are misrepresentations of sources as detailed at Talk:Roman roads in Judaea again with no engagement verging on WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT. I've never opened a WP:CCI before but one may be needed here but that only addresses one aspect. With multiple issues, some community sanction may be in order. Any ideas where would be best to raise this? Richard Nevell ( talk) 22:47, 17 June 2024 (UTC) reply

The simplest way would be Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement, and get a ban from I/P issues (since they hardly ever edits outside of IP), Huldra ( talk) 23:01, 17 June 2024 (UTC) ‎ reply

Oops; it seems as if they haven't gotten a DS warning, ie they cannot be "judged" at the AE board. :( Huldra ( talk) 23:11, 17 June 2024 (UTC) reply

I have given them an IP alert, but a copyright investigation might be the best way to proceed (and I am unfamiliar with that process), Huldra ( talk) 23:18, 17 June 2024 (UTC) reply

The facade of Deir ed Darb, a monumental Jewish tomb from the Second Temple period

• ... that Deir ed Darb, Arabic for "monastery of the road", is in fact a Jewish monumental tomb dating to the Second Temple period?

• Reviewed:

Owenglyndur ( talk) 13:24, 22 May 2024 (UTC). reply

• General eligibility:
• New enough:
• Long enough:
• Other problems:

Policy compliance:

• Adequate sourcing:
• Neutral:
• Free of copyright violations, plagiarism, and close paraphrasing:
• Other problems: - It appears that a paragraph uses content copied without attribution from Qarawat Bani Hassan

Image eligibility:

• Freely licensed:
• Used in article: - no
• Clear at 100px:

Overall: Mariamnei ( talk) 11:18, 23 May 2024 (UTC) reply

@ Mariamnei: Did you mean to post a "maybe" status (purple slash) instead of an "again" status (red arrow)? The again status is for DYK that need another new reviewer, while the slash is for indicating that there is a concern with the article/nomination. Z1720 ( talk) 23:27, 23 May 2024 (UTC) reply

@ Z1720: Hey there! This DYK overall looks pretty good, but since it's my first time doing a DYK review, I thought it'd be better to get another view. What do you think? Mariamnei ( talk) 18:32, 25 May 2024 (UTC) reply

@ Mariamnei: Since you outlined some concerns above, I'll let the nominator, Owenglyndur, address them. Z1720 ( talk) 19:57, 25 May 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi, thank you for your comments and help to get the DYK right. I did not know i'm not allowed to copy some sentances from another Wikipedia article, especialy whemn it is so relevant for the article i wrote. I will not do it again in the future. Owenglyndur ( talk) 07:18, 27 May 2024 (UTC) reply

Hey @ Owenglyndur:, thanks for explaining that! Awesome, I see the pic is up on the article too. Looks like we're good to go! Mariamnei ( talk) 08:39, 28 May 2024 (UTC) reply

• Just a question; the article refers to a "Dar" ("Dar - late 70's", "in Dar's opinion", "led Dar to conclude that"), but I cannot find any reference to any "Dar"?, cheers, Huldra ( talk) 22:51, 11 June 2024 (UTC) reply
• Also, it would have been nice to wikilink the SWP authors (Palmer, Conder, Kitchener) -and the page-links. Also; isn't the 3 and 7 references the same (except the page-no)? Why then is one marked in Hebrew, while the other is not? Also ref.3 has a red warning: "Cite journal requires journal=", cheers, Huldra ( talk) 23:01, 11 June 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi, as i wrote in an earlier comment by you, i added Dar to the citations. Further more if you look at the citations you can see that Conder, Claude Reignier; Kitchener, Horatio Herbert; Palmer, Edward Henry; Besant, Walter, show In citation 7.

I still cannot see any Dar in the citations. Also, nowhere have you linked Claude Reignier Conder, Herbert Kitchener, 1st Earl Kitchener, Edward Henry Palmer,etc, Huldra ( talk) 22:27, 18 June 2024 (UTC) reply

@ Owenglyndur, Mariamnei, and Huldra: Just to say I don't intend on promoting this while there is a {{ clump}} in the lead section - which by rights shouldn't have any references in the first place.-- Laun chba ller 08:06, 17 June 2024 (UTC) reply

Hi, i think i solved the Clump issue. To remove all citations from the lead?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Owenglyndur ( talk • contribs)

Technically compliant with that policy, however you now have a {{ which?}} template which needs rectifying before this can be promoted.-- Laun chba ller 13:22, 18 June 2024 (UTC) reply

There is at least one instance of a copyright violation as detailed on the article's talk page. It may be restricted to the specified text but I have not fully investigated so more may be effected. Until that is resolved the article should not appear in DYK. Richard Nevell ( talk) 20:20, 18 June 2024 (UTC) reply

I just realised; the artickle has the cats Tombs in Israel and Archaeological sites in Israel(!!) Neeedless to say(?), the place is not in Israel. If the author makes another such error, I will ask for a topic-ban from the IP area. Huldra ( talk) 20:41, 17 June 2024 (UTC) reply