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Progressive rock is a genre driven by technical structures, and a mixture of jazz and classical music defined by artists Frank Zappa, King Crimson, ELP, Genesis and Rush.
Mudvayne is a progressive metal band.
Deftones is a nu-metal band. The sources identifying Deftones as prog are fake news. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.223.107.152 ( talk) 22:34, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
I know that, apparently, this was just discussed recently, but hear me out. If we are aiming for "generality" in the genre boxes, why don't we just leave "alternative metal" and "experimental rock" in the box rather than putting such an ill-defined and controversial term as "nu metal" in the box with the awkward clarifier that it refers to "early" Deftones? I understand there are a lot of sources for "nu metal." However, even disregarding the fact that the majority of these sources are either from the 90s-early 00s or refer to Deftones as unfairly classified as nu metal, no longer deemed nu metal, etc.; and disregarding that only 2 of of their 7 albums have been consistently associated with "nu metal," the fact remains that "nu metal" is widely regarded as a sub genre of "alternative metal." If this is the case, "alternative metal" not only encompasses their newer work but their earlier work that many deem to be "nu metal." "Alternative metal" is general enough that it includes their works deemed "nu metal" yet does not seem as clunky and does not create controversy.
Furthermore, "nu metal" is already included under the "Styles and Influences" section of the article, which seems like a perfect compromise. Otherwise, by putting "nu metal" in the box, you open the door for the inclusion in the info box of various genres and sub genres with which Deftones have also been associated. Meanwhile, "alternative metal" and "experimental rock" are inclusive and general enough to capture almost any genre or sub genre that has been ascribed to the band, including "nu metal". Madreterra ( talk) 19:15, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
This shows that the nu metal genre continues to be discussed in connection to the Deftones. Their 2013 concert dates were discussed as part of a nu metal revival. Even the sources which say that Deftones should not have been labeled nu metal acknowledge that it was indeed applied to them. Where there's smoke, there's fire. Binksternet ( talk) 22:00, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
Well, Deftones has been refferred as a nu metal band, altough I don't approve it. Maybe some coverage should be added, that the genre is under dispute 109.240.27.221 ( talk) 16:36, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
Why are the references for multiple genres all lumped together? Like, for example, "progressive rock and progressive metal, post-rock, metalgaze or post-metal" and "trip hop and glitch hop" -- these are different forms of music. "Metalgaze" is a neologism and redirects to "post-metal", which is different from post-rock, and progressive rock and progressive metal are most definitely not the same thing. Also, glitch hop is music that uses heavy sampling in a musique concrète-inspired fashion, while trip hop is a mix of electronic music, hip hop and psychedelia. The lumping of sources also makes it unclear which genres are being cited and makes it difficult to track the sources to the statements the article makes. -- 74.42.44.222 ( talk) 00:26, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
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Where in the article does it say that he ever played drums? And where's a source saying he did? The only thing that says he played drums right now is the timeline. Unless I missed something. dannymusiceditor ~talk to me!~ 20:18, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
Numerous internet sources confirm that Garcia was the original bass player. When drummer Cunningham left in 1990 to start Phallucy, Garcia switched to drums and Cheng joined on bass. He was only the drummer for a short period before leaving to join Cunningham in Phallucy, and was replaced by Taylor. Taylor stayed on drums until Cunningham returned in 1993. Alas, these sources aren't useable as references, I think. Finding better sources may be hard as this very early period of the band is long before they got any press attention. Greg Fasolino ( talk) 22:30, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
I hate to start yet another genre discussion, but I'm just curious as to other people's idea of where one would hypothetically place "art metal" or "art-metal" in the article. The term comes up again and again throughout the years in reference to Deftones:
Would "art metal" just be considered covered under " art rock" in the "Musical Influences" section? Would it be post-metal? Avant-garde metal? Progressive metal? I suppose it's not incredibly vital to the article, but it seems like its usage in reference to Deftones has only increased. I'm just curious what others think of the genre label's place in the article. Madreterra ( talk) 01:25, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/hear-deftones-pummeling-new-song-doomed-user-20160316 Madreterra ( talk) 22:35, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
I don't have a physical copy of the album, so someone will need to check for me: Do the liner notes for White Pony credit him with any guitar work? We can resolve a particular citation needed tag in the article rather easily if they do. I could ask the same thing about Annalynn Cunningham's participation in Around the Fur track "MX". dannymusiceditor what'd I do now? 22:51, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
Maybe, we need to write about demo-album Like (Linus) 1993 and their style of that time. The article hasn't information about it. http://www.discogs.com/Deftones-Like-Linus/release/3379006 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deomax ( talk • contribs) 20:57, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
For Frank's involvement in Decibel Devils. dannymusiceditor Speak up! 00:18, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
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Around the Fur becomes a song in Around the Fur album. Diamond Eyes becomes a song in Diamond Eyes album. Gore becomes a song in Gore album. Adrenaline does not become a song in Adrenaline as an album. White Pony does not become a song in White Pony as an album. Deftones does not become a song in Deftones as an album. Saturday Night Wrist does not become a song in Saturday Night Wrist as an album. Koi No Yokan does not become a song in Koi No Yokan as an album.
69.24.188.210 ( talk) 01:53, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
isn't art metal essentially art rock? dannymusiceditor Speak up! 00:50, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
So what's everyone think of the new lead first paragraph? Just added 1100 bytes to it, dunno about how well it's written. dannymusiceditor Speak up! 20:26, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
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I really don't see the harm in adding Chino's other bands ( Palms, Team Sleep, and Crosses) and Quicksand. It helps people casually browsing the band's page find other associated material; that's the whole point. I understand that there is only one common member per band as per the GUIDELINES, which are not adamant rules and many (if not most) other band pages tend to ignore this particular bullet point since it's rather arbitrary and defeats the purpose. In fact, on the same page that guideline is listed, the example given lists Soundgarden and Temple of the Dog as Associated Acts for Audioslave, despite there only being one common member (Chris Cornell). Also, three of the four bands I listed in the first sentence have Deftones listed in their respective Associated Acts section. I believe this should be discussed and voted upon. StuOnThis ( talk) 17:57, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
Okay, I concede. I got nowhere with my case over at the Template talk page and it seems as though I'll do just as well here. Thanks for your time. StuOnThis ( talk) 17:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
I think the lead genre should be "rock" instead of "alternative metal" in the lead sentence if this article and all Deftones related article. They are described as many other rock genres. In the infobox experimental rock, art rock, and shoegaze are listed. These are rock genres, bit metal genres. Rock is just more broad and appropriate for the lead. I am leaving this message because I'm sure at some point a consensus was made regarding the lead genre. I want to hear what others think. If no one responds within a week, I'll go ahead and make the changes. Bowling is life ( talk) 20:01, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
Bowling is life brought up a good point in that shoegaze is better supported as a genre than experimental rock in this article, but Deftones' style is denser than any band I've ever worked with on Wikipedia and it's extremely difficult to encompass. Thus, I think consensus should be the only way we make any change to it. It's been a while since any proposition has been brought forward with any substance, and I want to make sure we have a good representation for the proposed change. dannymusiceditor oops 21:38, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
Is there any evidence he ever did this? He is not credited with this on any record he played on, only here. dannymusiceditor oops 23:23, 21 October 2022 (UTC)
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Progressive rock is a genre driven by technical structures, and a mixture of jazz and classical music defined by artists Frank Zappa, King Crimson, ELP, Genesis and Rush.
Mudvayne is a progressive metal band.
Deftones is a nu-metal band. The sources identifying Deftones as prog are fake news. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.223.107.152 ( talk) 22:34, 17 October 2017 (UTC)
I know that, apparently, this was just discussed recently, but hear me out. If we are aiming for "generality" in the genre boxes, why don't we just leave "alternative metal" and "experimental rock" in the box rather than putting such an ill-defined and controversial term as "nu metal" in the box with the awkward clarifier that it refers to "early" Deftones? I understand there are a lot of sources for "nu metal." However, even disregarding the fact that the majority of these sources are either from the 90s-early 00s or refer to Deftones as unfairly classified as nu metal, no longer deemed nu metal, etc.; and disregarding that only 2 of of their 7 albums have been consistently associated with "nu metal," the fact remains that "nu metal" is widely regarded as a sub genre of "alternative metal." If this is the case, "alternative metal" not only encompasses their newer work but their earlier work that many deem to be "nu metal." "Alternative metal" is general enough that it includes their works deemed "nu metal" yet does not seem as clunky and does not create controversy.
Furthermore, "nu metal" is already included under the "Styles and Influences" section of the article, which seems like a perfect compromise. Otherwise, by putting "nu metal" in the box, you open the door for the inclusion in the info box of various genres and sub genres with which Deftones have also been associated. Meanwhile, "alternative metal" and "experimental rock" are inclusive and general enough to capture almost any genre or sub genre that has been ascribed to the band, including "nu metal". Madreterra ( talk) 19:15, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
This shows that the nu metal genre continues to be discussed in connection to the Deftones. Their 2013 concert dates were discussed as part of a nu metal revival. Even the sources which say that Deftones should not have been labeled nu metal acknowledge that it was indeed applied to them. Where there's smoke, there's fire. Binksternet ( talk) 22:00, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
Well, Deftones has been refferred as a nu metal band, altough I don't approve it. Maybe some coverage should be added, that the genre is under dispute 109.240.27.221 ( talk) 16:36, 24 December 2014 (UTC)
Why are the references for multiple genres all lumped together? Like, for example, "progressive rock and progressive metal, post-rock, metalgaze or post-metal" and "trip hop and glitch hop" -- these are different forms of music. "Metalgaze" is a neologism and redirects to "post-metal", which is different from post-rock, and progressive rock and progressive metal are most definitely not the same thing. Also, glitch hop is music that uses heavy sampling in a musique concrète-inspired fashion, while trip hop is a mix of electronic music, hip hop and psychedelia. The lumping of sources also makes it unclear which genres are being cited and makes it difficult to track the sources to the statements the article makes. -- 74.42.44.222 ( talk) 00:26, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
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Where in the article does it say that he ever played drums? And where's a source saying he did? The only thing that says he played drums right now is the timeline. Unless I missed something. dannymusiceditor ~talk to me!~ 20:18, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
Numerous internet sources confirm that Garcia was the original bass player. When drummer Cunningham left in 1990 to start Phallucy, Garcia switched to drums and Cheng joined on bass. He was only the drummer for a short period before leaving to join Cunningham in Phallucy, and was replaced by Taylor. Taylor stayed on drums until Cunningham returned in 1993. Alas, these sources aren't useable as references, I think. Finding better sources may be hard as this very early period of the band is long before they got any press attention. Greg Fasolino ( talk) 22:30, 29 February 2016 (UTC)
I hate to start yet another genre discussion, but I'm just curious as to other people's idea of where one would hypothetically place "art metal" or "art-metal" in the article. The term comes up again and again throughout the years in reference to Deftones:
Would "art metal" just be considered covered under " art rock" in the "Musical Influences" section? Would it be post-metal? Avant-garde metal? Progressive metal? I suppose it's not incredibly vital to the article, but it seems like its usage in reference to Deftones has only increased. I'm just curious what others think of the genre label's place in the article. Madreterra ( talk) 01:25, 9 March 2016 (UTC)
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/hear-deftones-pummeling-new-song-doomed-user-20160316 Madreterra ( talk) 22:35, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
I don't have a physical copy of the album, so someone will need to check for me: Do the liner notes for White Pony credit him with any guitar work? We can resolve a particular citation needed tag in the article rather easily if they do. I could ask the same thing about Annalynn Cunningham's participation in Around the Fur track "MX". dannymusiceditor what'd I do now? 22:51, 11 March 2016 (UTC)
Maybe, we need to write about demo-album Like (Linus) 1993 and their style of that time. The article hasn't information about it. http://www.discogs.com/Deftones-Like-Linus/release/3379006 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deomax ( talk • contribs) 20:57, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
For Frank's involvement in Decibel Devils. dannymusiceditor Speak up! 00:18, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
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Around the Fur becomes a song in Around the Fur album. Diamond Eyes becomes a song in Diamond Eyes album. Gore becomes a song in Gore album. Adrenaline does not become a song in Adrenaline as an album. White Pony does not become a song in White Pony as an album. Deftones does not become a song in Deftones as an album. Saturday Night Wrist does not become a song in Saturday Night Wrist as an album. Koi No Yokan does not become a song in Koi No Yokan as an album.
69.24.188.210 ( talk) 01:53, 5 June 2016 (UTC)
isn't art metal essentially art rock? dannymusiceditor Speak up! 00:50, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
So what's everyone think of the new lead first paragraph? Just added 1100 bytes to it, dunno about how well it's written. dannymusiceditor Speak up! 20:26, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
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I really don't see the harm in adding Chino's other bands ( Palms, Team Sleep, and Crosses) and Quicksand. It helps people casually browsing the band's page find other associated material; that's the whole point. I understand that there is only one common member per band as per the GUIDELINES, which are not adamant rules and many (if not most) other band pages tend to ignore this particular bullet point since it's rather arbitrary and defeats the purpose. In fact, on the same page that guideline is listed, the example given lists Soundgarden and Temple of the Dog as Associated Acts for Audioslave, despite there only being one common member (Chris Cornell). Also, three of the four bands I listed in the first sentence have Deftones listed in their respective Associated Acts section. I believe this should be discussed and voted upon. StuOnThis ( talk) 17:57, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
Okay, I concede. I got nowhere with my case over at the Template talk page and it seems as though I'll do just as well here. Thanks for your time. StuOnThis ( talk) 17:32, 30 September 2020 (UTC)
I think the lead genre should be "rock" instead of "alternative metal" in the lead sentence if this article and all Deftones related article. They are described as many other rock genres. In the infobox experimental rock, art rock, and shoegaze are listed. These are rock genres, bit metal genres. Rock is just more broad and appropriate for the lead. I am leaving this message because I'm sure at some point a consensus was made regarding the lead genre. I want to hear what others think. If no one responds within a week, I'll go ahead and make the changes. Bowling is life ( talk) 20:01, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
Bowling is life brought up a good point in that shoegaze is better supported as a genre than experimental rock in this article, but Deftones' style is denser than any band I've ever worked with on Wikipedia and it's extremely difficult to encompass. Thus, I think consensus should be the only way we make any change to it. It's been a while since any proposition has been brought forward with any substance, and I want to make sure we have a good representation for the proposed change. dannymusiceditor oops 21:38, 12 October 2022 (UTC)
Is there any evidence he ever did this? He is not credited with this on any record he played on, only here. dannymusiceditor oops 23:23, 21 October 2022 (UTC)