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Does anyone know if a Vatican Declariation can be freely published anywhere? [[[User:Simonapro|Simonapro]] 14:31, 3 May 2006 (UTC)]
I believe that the Canon Law cited is inaccurate and does not pertain to Freemasonry in any way, shape or form. I put it to you that the only grounds by which one can accertain this subjective reasoning that it is in some way linked to Freemasonry is purely on the bias and assumptional grounds that it is so.
A person who joins an association which plots against the Church .. this is a subjective question. That being said we are in a catch 22 scenario where only a member of the society in question could clarify whether or not they plot against the Church; further the question is raised as to the legitimacy of their claims. As this is negated by the question of legitimacy, then it is conclusive to say that we cannot accertain whether Freemasonry plots against the Church (assumption that this Canon Law is applied non-retroactively).
Therefore, it stands to reason that this Canon Law does not apply to Freemasonry. To do so would go against all logic and reason. To set things clear, I am a Freemason and a Roman Catholic, whilst my testimony as to what I have seen and heard has no purposeful application in this situation; I can safely say that it is not just on interpretive grounds that I think this Law is being misappropriated but also on evidentiary grounds. Jachin 06:43, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Hello, did you actually read Quesitum est on http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19831126_declaration-masonic_en.html ? I know it was removed from the page, but it is back in now. I hope that is okay. Quesitum est was specifically designed by the Holy See to answer questions about Can. 1374. and the older Can. 2335. I think Quesitum est makes it clear that canon 1374 applies to freemasons. [[[User:Simonapro|Simonapro]] 08:20, 4 May 2006 (UTC)]
That is one mans interpretation and considering his prior association with organisations that used to gas Freemasons I think the vested interest and neutrality of his judgement is rather moot. Further as illustrated above, I believe that no reasonable person would interpret that passage to pertain to Freemasonry if it weren't for Ratzingers commentary on the matter. Jachin 08:50, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
Jachin, it is not just one man's interpretation. It is actually right out of the Holy See, Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. [[[User:Simonapro|Simonapro]] 10:24, 6 May 2006 (UTC)]
I don't think the article has any opinions of the contributors. It just has official statements from the Holy See. ( Simonapro 21:12, 27 May 2006 (UTC))
This document is not named "Quaesitum est". That name was taken, mistakenly in my view, from the AAS. In the AAS, the document is clearly titled Declaratio de associationibus massonici. Everything in the AAS is in Latin. (As far as I know, two or three word titles in Latin are "reserved" to Papal pronouncements, and this was not a papal pronouncement). -- Kenatipo speak! 12:44, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
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Does anyone know if a Vatican Declariation can be freely published anywhere? [[[User:Simonapro|Simonapro]] 14:31, 3 May 2006 (UTC)]
I believe that the Canon Law cited is inaccurate and does not pertain to Freemasonry in any way, shape or form. I put it to you that the only grounds by which one can accertain this subjective reasoning that it is in some way linked to Freemasonry is purely on the bias and assumptional grounds that it is so.
A person who joins an association which plots against the Church .. this is a subjective question. That being said we are in a catch 22 scenario where only a member of the society in question could clarify whether or not they plot against the Church; further the question is raised as to the legitimacy of their claims. As this is negated by the question of legitimacy, then it is conclusive to say that we cannot accertain whether Freemasonry plots against the Church (assumption that this Canon Law is applied non-retroactively).
Therefore, it stands to reason that this Canon Law does not apply to Freemasonry. To do so would go against all logic and reason. To set things clear, I am a Freemason and a Roman Catholic, whilst my testimony as to what I have seen and heard has no purposeful application in this situation; I can safely say that it is not just on interpretive grounds that I think this Law is being misappropriated but also on evidentiary grounds. Jachin 06:43, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
Hello, did you actually read Quesitum est on http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19831126_declaration-masonic_en.html ? I know it was removed from the page, but it is back in now. I hope that is okay. Quesitum est was specifically designed by the Holy See to answer questions about Can. 1374. and the older Can. 2335. I think Quesitum est makes it clear that canon 1374 applies to freemasons. [[[User:Simonapro|Simonapro]] 08:20, 4 May 2006 (UTC)]
That is one mans interpretation and considering his prior association with organisations that used to gas Freemasons I think the vested interest and neutrality of his judgement is rather moot. Further as illustrated above, I believe that no reasonable person would interpret that passage to pertain to Freemasonry if it weren't for Ratzingers commentary on the matter. Jachin 08:50, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
Jachin, it is not just one man's interpretation. It is actually right out of the Holy See, Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. [[[User:Simonapro|Simonapro]] 10:24, 6 May 2006 (UTC)]
I don't think the article has any opinions of the contributors. It just has official statements from the Holy See. ( Simonapro 21:12, 27 May 2006 (UTC))
This document is not named "Quaesitum est". That name was taken, mistakenly in my view, from the AAS. In the AAS, the document is clearly titled Declaratio de associationibus massonici. Everything in the AAS is in Latin. (As far as I know, two or three word titles in Latin are "reserved" to Papal pronouncements, and this was not a papal pronouncement). -- Kenatipo speak! 12:44, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
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