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This isn't 'a conspiracy mongerer' having a say, but Palfrey in her own words denying she would ever suicide and discussing another alleged suicide of one of her employees. Wikipedia requires verifiability and not Judgement as to the veracity of the statement. In this case, Palfrey did indeed make those statements.
See also the section below "Reliable Sources is a guideline not a policy" .. 'Audio/Video of Deborah Jeane Palfrey's own words can in no way be considered challenged or likely to be challenged"'
emacsuser ( talk) 12:34, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
RoosterEnroughty added in this external link:
Ip208man removed the EL with this edit summary:
rmv unneeded EL. not a high quality link
Emacsuser returned the EL with the edit summary:
restored link, please enumerate any inaccuracues in that link
I concur with Ip208man that this is a low quality source and neither of us are arguing inaccuracies per se. Emacsuser asked on my talk page (and I'm moving it here as the appropriate forum):
Please define 'unneeded/low quality source' in relation to Wikipedia secondary sources policy. Point out any inaccuracies or false hoods in the quoted text. An ABC interview with Palfrey isn't 'quality'. What gives ?
This article was from the "Hyattsville Life and Times" -- a wiki [1]. Wikis are never reliable sources. ∴ Therefore cogito· sum 18:59, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
According to her Condo manager "She insinuated that there is a contract out for her and I fully believe they succeeded" and staff stated she asked about her condo fees being paid during her anticipated incarceration [1]. In an interview when asked about Brandy Britton she responded “It’s not that I don’t want to be like her. I don’t want to end up like her.” [2]
As you stated at the time:To include it in the death section is to ask the reader to make an inference as to her state of mind, again, making the implication that she may have been murdered. No reliable source is using this as proof, as one editor stated it, of her "mental stability".
Now that the autopsy and investigations are complete we have the facts and not opinion. There is absolutely no reliable source that is asserting that her death was anything but suicide. Not one. Nada. Your synthesized sources and quotes and youtube videos (which are not allowed), contrary to Wikipedia policy. Initially, we included the condo manager's impossible to confirm attention-getting contradicted speculations as a compromise, awaiting the final investigation. Since then, consensus changed; see Talk:Deborah Jeane Palfrey/Archive 1#Speculation section. The Death section does include the sourced fact that there was rampant speculation at the time. Except on for-profit CT sites, this speculation is now a dead issue. ∴ Therefore cogito· sum 19:24, 13 April 2009 (UTC)If she commited suicide ? Given no autopsy has yet been carried out yet, how can they possible make such claims, that she died of apparent suicide and 'handwritten suicide notes' were found near the body. Regarding 'reliable sources', I thought Wikipedia wanted facts and not opinion.
References
I have just archived the talk page, in large part to prevent people from reposting on old topics. So, please read the archive page before you start a new section. Thank you. Ip208man ( talk) 15:30, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
89.145.220.86 ( talk · contribs) has added in several times Alex Jone's take on her state of mind, saying that since Moldea's comments are hearsay, then Jone's should be included.
My response: The issue isn't hearsay -- the tricky thing to understand about Wikipedia (one we all struggled with when starting) is per WP:V:
The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth [emphasis in the original]
I understand that Moldea's comment are hearsay but what is important is that several reliable sources (meaning, here, published, mainstream, known for fact checking) reported on his comments (AP, Time, Orlando Sentinel). Therefore, they are attributable. No reliable source and I mean none, every reported on Jone's conspiracy theory. WP:FRINGE opinions, unless reported by a reliable source and attributed as such, are never appropriate for inclusion.
Really, please read through the extensive discussion at the archived talk page where these arguments have been made along with many others. Here are some pointers:
Per WP:BRD -- you have the responsibility to discuss adding in controversial changes and not simply keep re-adding them. After the fourth time you will be stopped from editing per WP:3RR and there is no need for that. You also have the burden of reading the extensive discussion on this page and the archive and address all of the specific reasons this is not going to be added so we don't have to re-hash it over and over again. Thanks! ∴ Therefore cogito· sum 17:38, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Deborah Jeane Palfrey. Please take a moment to review
my edit. You may add {{
cbignore}}
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An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 00:40, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
This article is about Palfrey. It should not become a WP:COATRACK for Montgomery Blair Sibley, who (now) has his own article. -- Weazie ( talk) 06:02, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Deborah Jeane Palfrey article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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This isn't 'a conspiracy mongerer' having a say, but Palfrey in her own words denying she would ever suicide and discussing another alleged suicide of one of her employees. Wikipedia requires verifiability and not Judgement as to the veracity of the statement. In this case, Palfrey did indeed make those statements.
See also the section below "Reliable Sources is a guideline not a policy" .. 'Audio/Video of Deborah Jeane Palfrey's own words can in no way be considered challenged or likely to be challenged"'
emacsuser ( talk) 12:34, 31 March 2009 (UTC)
RoosterEnroughty added in this external link:
Ip208man removed the EL with this edit summary:
rmv unneeded EL. not a high quality link
Emacsuser returned the EL with the edit summary:
restored link, please enumerate any inaccuracues in that link
I concur with Ip208man that this is a low quality source and neither of us are arguing inaccuracies per se. Emacsuser asked on my talk page (and I'm moving it here as the appropriate forum):
Please define 'unneeded/low quality source' in relation to Wikipedia secondary sources policy. Point out any inaccuracies or false hoods in the quoted text. An ABC interview with Palfrey isn't 'quality'. What gives ?
This article was from the "Hyattsville Life and Times" -- a wiki [1]. Wikis are never reliable sources. ∴ Therefore cogito· sum 18:59, 12 April 2009 (UTC)
According to her Condo manager "She insinuated that there is a contract out for her and I fully believe they succeeded" and staff stated she asked about her condo fees being paid during her anticipated incarceration [1]. In an interview when asked about Brandy Britton she responded “It’s not that I don’t want to be like her. I don’t want to end up like her.” [2]
As you stated at the time:To include it in the death section is to ask the reader to make an inference as to her state of mind, again, making the implication that she may have been murdered. No reliable source is using this as proof, as one editor stated it, of her "mental stability".
Now that the autopsy and investigations are complete we have the facts and not opinion. There is absolutely no reliable source that is asserting that her death was anything but suicide. Not one. Nada. Your synthesized sources and quotes and youtube videos (which are not allowed), contrary to Wikipedia policy. Initially, we included the condo manager's impossible to confirm attention-getting contradicted speculations as a compromise, awaiting the final investigation. Since then, consensus changed; see Talk:Deborah Jeane Palfrey/Archive 1#Speculation section. The Death section does include the sourced fact that there was rampant speculation at the time. Except on for-profit CT sites, this speculation is now a dead issue. ∴ Therefore cogito· sum 19:24, 13 April 2009 (UTC)If she commited suicide ? Given no autopsy has yet been carried out yet, how can they possible make such claims, that she died of apparent suicide and 'handwritten suicide notes' were found near the body. Regarding 'reliable sources', I thought Wikipedia wanted facts and not opinion.
References
I have just archived the talk page, in large part to prevent people from reposting on old topics. So, please read the archive page before you start a new section. Thank you. Ip208man ( talk) 15:30, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
89.145.220.86 ( talk · contribs) has added in several times Alex Jone's take on her state of mind, saying that since Moldea's comments are hearsay, then Jone's should be included.
My response: The issue isn't hearsay -- the tricky thing to understand about Wikipedia (one we all struggled with when starting) is per WP:V:
The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth [emphasis in the original]
I understand that Moldea's comment are hearsay but what is important is that several reliable sources (meaning, here, published, mainstream, known for fact checking) reported on his comments (AP, Time, Orlando Sentinel). Therefore, they are attributable. No reliable source and I mean none, every reported on Jone's conspiracy theory. WP:FRINGE opinions, unless reported by a reliable source and attributed as such, are never appropriate for inclusion.
Really, please read through the extensive discussion at the archived talk page where these arguments have been made along with many others. Here are some pointers:
Per WP:BRD -- you have the responsibility to discuss adding in controversial changes and not simply keep re-adding them. After the fourth time you will be stopped from editing per WP:3RR and there is no need for that. You also have the burden of reading the extensive discussion on this page and the archive and address all of the specific reasons this is not going to be added so we don't have to re-hash it over and over again. Thanks! ∴ Therefore cogito· sum 17:38, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Deborah Jeane Palfrey. Please take a moment to review
my edit. You may add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it, if I keep adding bad data, but formatting bugs should be reported instead. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether, but should be used as a last resort. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 00:40, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
This article is about Palfrey. It should not become a WP:COATRACK for Montgomery Blair Sibley, who (now) has his own article. -- Weazie ( talk) 06:02, 9 April 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 5 external links on Deborah Jeane Palfrey. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 19:58, 9 December 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 7 external links on Deborah Jeane Palfrey. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 21:12, 19 May 2017 (UTC)