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I edited the phrase "the suspicious circumsicions of her death" to Cirkumstances, since that is either a typo, or a delibrate misstake
I've moved the conspiracy theory stuff here, until someone can provice verifiable, credible sources for the information. Please see the sections on original research and verifiability.
The death of Marilyn Monroe is surrounded with controversy. There are many different theories to the exact cause of her demise.
Most try to make a case for murder due to her connection with the Kennedy family and the sometimes strange and unprofessional relationships between Monroe and her psychiatrist, Dr. Ralph Greenson; the housekeeper he hired for Monroe, Mrs. Eunice Murray; and her personal publicist, Pat Newcomb, who was hired by the Kennedys immediately following Monroe's death. Suspicion also arises due to the fact that up to four hours passed between the discovery of her body and the phone call to the Los Angeles Police Department. Jack Clemmons, the first officer on the scene, claimed that when he entered the home, Mrs. Murray was doing laundry, Monroe's room was very tidy as though it had been cleaned prior to his arrival, and her body looked posed. In Clemmons's words, "She was face down, her arms at her side, like a soldier at attention, a phone under her torso." Clemmons noted that Dr. Greenson kept pointing to rows of pill bottles lined up neatly on her nightstand and saying as if rehearsed, "She must have taken all of these." Simmons noticed that no typical signs of drug overdose were present, namely foaming of the mouth and twisting of the body due to convulsions. The police report mentioned a broken bedroom window and glass on the floor, to which Murray claimed was the only access to the locked room. Also suspicious, lividity (settling of blood) in various parts of the body suggested that the body had been moved as well. Those who spoke with her in the days prior to her death would describe an upbeat, optimistic Marilyn.
In connection with conspiracy theories, it must be noted that the other women whom Kennedy was allegedly involved with, including Angie Dickinson and Judith Campbell Exner, survived him. Through her relationship with Sam Giancana, Exner seriously compromised both Kennedy and the presidency itself, yet she told People magazine that the FBI quit its surveillance of her - and left her alone - once it was apparent that her affair with Kennedy was over.
The paragraph of quote beginning after the phrase "Bell writes..." finishes with the line:
Can anyone check the spelling of "Hy" please and either correct it, or give it a [ sic] tag, please?
In the trivia section, it states that Monroe's death is "extremely similar" to Presley's death. I have two things to ask about this: 1) Why is this important and 2) Monroe died from a drug overdose. Presley died from a heart condition caused by years of drug abuse and an otherwise unhealthy lifestyle. Hence, I dispute why this "fact" needs to be included at all. Naysie 06:03, 4 March 2007 (UTC) P.S. I don't understand "He excluded all he deemed morally responsible for her death." Can someone fix this sentence or explain what is meant?
I've just removed a section that was titled "FBI Agent", and that read:
The NYDN is not a reliable source. If this documentary comes out and is taken seriously by the NYT or similar, this factoid can go back in. -- Hoary 01:39, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
The New York Daily News has the largest circulation in New York City, even larger than the New York Times. But I have seen this also on CNN and ABC news not only in the Daily News. But lets not make this about the daily news, it’s about the FBI agent and the death of Marilyn Monroe. Plus they have recently declassified hundreds of pages about how she was murdered. I think this is a VERY important discovery! Plus according to IMDB the people on camera are all official's some in very high places, such as Daryl Gates who was the father of the SWAT team and head of the LAPD for almost two decades. I don’t believe this information should be censured because of your dislike of the New York Daily news. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobtoo ( talk • contribs) 04:44, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
[bouncing leftwards] A reply to the comment above and the comment in the section below: there are many millions of people out there who know of the involvement of the Kennedy's and the FBI | Do they just know it in their gut, or do they have evidence for it? If they have evidence, where is this evidence? ¶ Nobody has questioned that the NYDN has a huge circulation. Its own article in WP says that it's a tabloid. If it has something important to say, why does it say this in a gossip column? ¶ IMDB.com the most respected and only mainstream database about the film world | How difficult is it for a movie production company (etc.) to have Imdb recycle its promotional material? ¶ There are over a dozen officials according to the news and IMDB. You really think dozens of officials, producers, the FBI, the director, Chris Rock's brother, and many more people would let there names be thrown around like that? | Now I don't even know what you're talking about. Wasn't the claim that one very old and sick ex-policeman had said something to one film producer? ¶ It is about time the truth be told! | Wikipedia is not a soapbox. ¶ You must be a Kennedy or government employ for trying so hard to cover this up. | Slight tendency to aggrandize, no? ¶ trust me | After your "Takashi Oyama"? That's rather a tall order. -- Hoary 06:21, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
[Un-indent] Speaking for myself, I don't have a problem with citing a news article in the Daily News, but the source is a gossip column. FBI.com is a blank page and (presumably) not owned by the FBI, I assume you mean fbi.gov. Why not simply cite the actual FBI document(s), or one of the other news articles, instead of a gossip column? As you suggested I ran a Google search on "Keya Morgan" "Marilyn Monroe" ( [2]), which does not turn up anything else that I would call reliable (but I gave up after scrolling through 3 or 4 pages of results). The New York Times is not linked until the third page of results, and the article is about a Joe DiMaggio auction, not about the film or its assertions. I'll also refer you to Wikipedia policy, which says "routine and insubstantial news coverage, such as announcements, sports, gossip, and tabloid journalism, are not sufficient basis for an article" (my emphasis). And as Hoary suggested, you can file a checkuser request if you suspect we're the same person. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 09:37, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
[Un-indent] That it is the Daily News is immaterial, the text cites a gossip column that, in turn, cites an unfinished film. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 08:39, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
There is no way the largest paper in New York City is going to drop the names of the FBI, Chief of Police of the LAPD, Beverly Hills Police, District Attorney, and a Hollywood producer without getting sued or in trouble.-- USA1812 10:11, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
User:Bobtoo maintains that the FBI Agent section presents important information from reliable sources. User:Gyrofrog and User:Hoary counter that the only attributed source is a gossip column, which they feel is unreliable. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 02:59, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
Bobtoo, you are free to post in this section (as far as I know), but the intent of this section is to request outside input in hopes of resolving the dispute (which I figure you might appreciate as well as I would). Your responses to me or Hoary (and vice versa) belong in the previous section. Thanks, -- Gyrofrog (talk) 09:51, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
User:Dlabtot provides the only serious comment on this link to a gossip column, and it's a clear "no". I have therefore removed the link. If this documentary is completed and has a theatrical release, surely it will prompt scrupulous people to reinvestigate the story; the results will appear credible sources, which can be used and credited. -- Hoary 01:02, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
[Bouncing left.] I self-reverted. After all, I mustn't tot up too many reversions in one day, even if the reversions consist of removing tiresome readditions of gossip-column-sourced tittle-tattle.
Say, Bobtoo, you write FBI.gov has close to one hundred pages pertaining to Marilyn Monroe and this case. There are a lot of inofrmation about her death. [Sprinkle "sic" to taste.] Precisely what claim do you want to make, and on precisely which of these close to one hundred pages is your evidence for this? You could cite this, instead of resorting to some gossip columnist's account of what some obscure producer of a non-existent movie is said to have said. -- Hoary 13:27, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
You guys are all missing the main point. This is about Marilyn Monroe, and should not be about your egos and writing wars. How childish! How old are you guys? We should be discussing how she was killed. Anyone in there right mind knows she did not kill herself. The question should be, who? Stop the fighting, she was a living human being who lost her life at a very young age. VERY SAD! Please remember that she was a real person, not a puppet. R.I.P. PS-My father was married to her.-- Julia0101 05:39, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
I removed the sentence "Many individuals, including Jack Clemmons, the first Los Angeles Police Department officer to arrive at the death scene,[1] believe that she was murdered." The source makes no mention of Clemmons and is not a reliable source anyway. 24.189.171.34 ( talk) 21:33, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
it says he was preparing to marry him i think this is wrong —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.216.117.246 ( talk) 15:50, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
The article for "Marilyn Monroe" says about her death: "Many questions remain unanswered about the circumstances of her death..." However, this article claims that "All questions were answered after Monroe's death." Perhaps one of these articles need to be reworded to avoid confusion? —Preceding unsigned comment added by BozoDawg ( talk • contribs) 01:19, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
It's not a broken link, but it doesn't show the will. Would anyone like to fix the link or remove it? Thanks Kvsh5 ( talk) 06:18, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
The timeline information is 60% false and made up. Not a single reference or citation is given. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jackio573h ( talk • contribs) 11:08, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
68.200.180.97 ( talk) 00:13, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
I have just reverted a series of edits that asserted (among other things) that a 20th Century Fox documentary is "highly valuable"; that "we know that Marilyn was under attack by Fox Studios"; that "her death is still felt by millions as one of the great individual tragedies of her time"; and that The DD Group: An Online Investigation Into the Death of Marilyn Monroe "stands as the definitive investigative study, and report, on the issues leading up to and occurring in the death of Marilyn Monroe...."; note that it's a self-published source. See WP:NPOV and WP:SPS. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 18:35, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
"10:30 p.m.: According to actress Natalie Trundy (later Mrs. Arthur P. Jacobs), Monroe's agent Arthur P. Jacobs hurriedly leaves a concert at the Hollywood Bowl that he is attending with Trundy and director Mervyn LeRoy and his wife, after being informed by Monroe's lawyer Mickey Rudin that she has overdosed. Trundy's timeline fits with undertaker Guy Hockett's (see below) estimation that Monroe died sometime between 9:30 p.m. and 11:30 p.m." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eregli bob ( talk • contribs) 07:24, 5 August 2012
.== Citation needed, citation needed, citation needed ==
Why is there so much unsourced information in this page? It appears to have been tagged as such for over 4 years, shouldn't it just be removed? 122.59.195.213 ( talk) 04:30, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
I'm not sure I understand this statement in the lede. MM's death isn't really mentioned in sources discussing "top conspiracy theories". Two examples: Time [3] and Telegraph [4]. Is this statement based on a single source? Can we get further confirmation of this? And what exactly does the Vankin & Whalen source say on this? I cannot imagine that any conspiracy theory has more variations than the 9/11 conspiracies, or even the JFK assassination, so I don't really think this is an accurate statement. Thoughts? -- Louisstar ( talk) 11:52, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
"Written by an unnamed former FBI agent working for the then-California Governor Pat Brown," This is confusing because why would the federal govt FBI work for a governor of a state? I think it could be clarified a bit to help with confusion. On page 18 of this source: http://web.archive.org/web/20011030085124/http://foia.fbi.gov/monroe/monroe2.pdf
It says the special agent is "former special agent, field representative, appointment section, governors office, state of california." I'm not 100% sure and don't mean to do original research but I think he had previously worked for the FBI but then worked for the governor. But why did he make an FBI report then? This source http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/03/16/1173722744304.html says "It was compiled by an unnamed former special agent working for the then Democrat governor of California, Pat Brown, and forwarded to Washington by Curtis Lynum, then head of the San Francisco FBI." I think we should include how he forwarded it to Curtis Lynum who did work for the FBI at the time. Popish Plot ( talk) 15:14, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
[[:File:Marilyn Monroe 10 year death tribute 1972 (v2).jpg|thumb|Thousands of tributes and memorials since 1962 included Lars Jacob's 1972 procession "Marilyn from Everyone" in Miami Beach on the 10th anniversary of her death.]] TrueHeartSusie3: If we can get the black blocks removed, where do you think this might fit in? -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 17:22, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
Sorry not to have let this go entirely, as discussed in principle, but should something like this be removed? -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 15:25, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
I quote the article: 'Against Monroe's wishes, Lee Strasberg had never distributed her effects amongst her friends,..'
I think this could be described as promoting a particular cause or point of view, especially a controversial one. Perhaps we agree that there was something creepy, almost obscene, about selling a celebrity’s personal belongings to strangers. Perhaps one wondered how Monroe would have reacted. However, Monroe’s will stipulated that 'I give and bequeath all of my personal effects and clothing to LEE STRASBERG, or if he should predecease me, then to my Executor hereinafter named, it being my desire that he distribute these, in his sole discretion, among my friends, colleagues and those to whom I am devoted.' So I think I have a quibble here, concerning what we take 'in his sole discretion' to mean, first of all, and secondly, what we take 'among my friends, colleagues and those to whom I am devoted' to mean. I hate to stick my nose into making updates to these Marilyn Monroe articles, because I see that there is much contention. However, I'm reading about something being against Monroe's wishes, which seems to imply that something is against her 'will'. Maybe so, but that would be illegal. Maybe take it to court, if you have a strong opinion about it, but does such an opinion belong here? DanLanglois ( talk) 09:39, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
Okay, I'm seeing two points, one about 'experts', and one about 'opinions'. I agree about opinions, I said this myself, that I don't think opinions belong here. In particular, I'm not interested in opinions which second-guess actions of the beneficiary of Marilyn Monroe's will. And it is simply a fact, that Marilyn Monroe left her belongings to Lee Strasberg, who has, and I quote, 'sole discretion'.
Secondly, as to your experts, my only hint as to who are these experts is the reference given, to Vanity Fair -- Patricia Bosworth. If she's an expert of any sort, in addition to being a former actress (one who had attended sessions at the Actors Studio in the 1950s and 60s), then okay, here's the link:
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2003/06/marilyn-monroe-and-lee-strasberg-200306
And, here's a quote: 'Monroe’s will stipulated that Lee Strasberg “distribute these, in his sole discretion, among my friends, colleagues and those to whom I am devoted.' So you see, the idea here is to interpret Marilyn Monroe's will. However, interpreting a will is a job for lawyers. Patricia Bosworth has a memoir, you know, about how she eloped with a dead-broke fortune-hunter who beat her up. I think her intention is to entertain with such stuff, about countless passes she rebuffed and such. I wonder if there are any alternative 'experts' on Marilyn Monroe's will, to consult? I'm simply seriously feeling misled by Wiki, I'm glad you brought up the standards, let's read them together. But I gave a fuller quote of that will of Marilyn Monroe's, and I note that this wiki article does not even clearly state that it is interpreting the wording of Marilyn Monroe's will. And as such an interpretation, of course I think it rather obviously mischievous. If it's not obvious then okay about that much I am wrong. However, Marilyn Monroe left her belongings to Lee Strasberg. Furthermore, let's recall that Monroe’s image and likeness were so valuable that a multi-million dollar lawsuit over her publicity rights raged on, more than fifty years after she died, until it was finally resolved by a federal court of appeals. Lawyers have been over this will, to say the least. I will offer my quote from Marilyn Monroe's will again: 'I give and bequeath all of my personal effects and clothing to Lee Strasberg, or if he should predecease me, then to my Executor hereinafter named, it being my desire that he distribute these, in his sole discretion, among my friends, colleagues and those to whom I am devoted.'
What does this mean? Does it specify an ascertainable beneficiary? Does this language express an intent to create a trust? My point here is that it's not our business to second guess the beneficiary of the will who has 'sole discretion'. DanLanglois ( talk) 12:18, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
Do you also reference Spoto for his view that Marilyn Monroe was killed by a enema filled with broken-down pills? That's a rhetorical question, and I'm glad you brought up reading the entire article. Of course, I can see that the article does do exactly this. I give up, people. My parting shot is that you couldn't have referenced the actual coroner's report, eh? DanLanglois ( talk) 12:43, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
I was being sarcastic, as the article certainly does quote from the coroner's report. Look, I do not feel that my little quibble has even been understood -- interpreting a will is not as easy as all that, it's a matter of law. I don't want to just repeat myself. I think Marilyn Monroe's will needs to be quoted accurately, and interpreted gingerly, and I'd like to keep my scope narrowly on that point, we can debate Spoto's nonsense in another thread. DanLanglois ( talk) 12:56, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
I believe the word "clews" in the text below:
"Additional clews for suicide provided by the physical evidence ..."
Should be "clues", or "clews [sic]".
So, "Death of Marilyn Monroe" is in category 'Female models who committed suicide'. But Marilyn Monroe is not. Logical? I think not. 109.240.142.169 ( talk) 06:30, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
Changed the date from August 5 to the 4th, per the sources on the page (inquest determined that she died on the evening of the 4th). Reverted with a mention of the death certificate saying August 5 (the death certificate lists 3 a.m. on the 5th, the time her body was found). Would the inquest estimate be used and sourced, or use the death certificate which, because of the inquest findings and because it lists the time of body-discovery, may be in error as to the exact time of death? thanks. Randy Kryn ( talk) 20:16, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
Is it not true Eunice Murray and her husband were members of the Communist Party? Simon Le Messurier ( talk) 19:49, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
Not to be confused with Eunice Murray, the suffrage campaigner. Simon Le Messurier ( talk) 19:41, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- but it relates to this Eunice R Murray, so I will move it into this talk section, below.
Apologies if this is the incorrect protocol, but it confuses readers on the other Eunice Murray unnecessarily. Thanks
Kaybeesquared ( talk) 15:55, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on August 29 2015. The result of the discussion was delete. |
Kaybeesquared ( talk) 15:55, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
https://www.realtime1960s.com/post/president-s-youngest-brother-roughed-up-in-boston-debate . .
Edward Kennedy evening of Aug. 27, 1962 his primary debate.
[1]
Death of Marilyn Monroe August 3 1962.
Monroe's was a fortuitous death avoiding a hypothetical pending scandal of unprecedented immensity in American political and social history. The reported projected press conference by the actress claimed by the actress in an impetuous outburst for her purpose of calling a convocation of reporters and journalists to "lift the lid off this whole damn thing" was never held. It is time, about time, or soon to be on time, that the lady's death and the initiate month of the youngest Kennedy's political life is understood in an extraordinary close proximity of chronology.
"Let's go!" said Dwight Eisenhower and D-day was commenced.
The word from whom set in motion the blonde celebrity's death?
It can be considered among some carefully selected considerations within which occurred the decision for the fateful elimination.
There is no publication permitting citation that would allow the youngest brother to be brought to the Wikipedia page in the matter of the Death of Marilyn Monroe. Laurencebeck ( talk) 04:18, 15 November 2022 (UTC) . . edited -- Laurencebeck ( talk) 02:00, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
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I edited the phrase "the suspicious circumsicions of her death" to Cirkumstances, since that is either a typo, or a delibrate misstake
I've moved the conspiracy theory stuff here, until someone can provice verifiable, credible sources for the information. Please see the sections on original research and verifiability.
The death of Marilyn Monroe is surrounded with controversy. There are many different theories to the exact cause of her demise.
Most try to make a case for murder due to her connection with the Kennedy family and the sometimes strange and unprofessional relationships between Monroe and her psychiatrist, Dr. Ralph Greenson; the housekeeper he hired for Monroe, Mrs. Eunice Murray; and her personal publicist, Pat Newcomb, who was hired by the Kennedys immediately following Monroe's death. Suspicion also arises due to the fact that up to four hours passed between the discovery of her body and the phone call to the Los Angeles Police Department. Jack Clemmons, the first officer on the scene, claimed that when he entered the home, Mrs. Murray was doing laundry, Monroe's room was very tidy as though it had been cleaned prior to his arrival, and her body looked posed. In Clemmons's words, "She was face down, her arms at her side, like a soldier at attention, a phone under her torso." Clemmons noted that Dr. Greenson kept pointing to rows of pill bottles lined up neatly on her nightstand and saying as if rehearsed, "She must have taken all of these." Simmons noticed that no typical signs of drug overdose were present, namely foaming of the mouth and twisting of the body due to convulsions. The police report mentioned a broken bedroom window and glass on the floor, to which Murray claimed was the only access to the locked room. Also suspicious, lividity (settling of blood) in various parts of the body suggested that the body had been moved as well. Those who spoke with her in the days prior to her death would describe an upbeat, optimistic Marilyn.
In connection with conspiracy theories, it must be noted that the other women whom Kennedy was allegedly involved with, including Angie Dickinson and Judith Campbell Exner, survived him. Through her relationship with Sam Giancana, Exner seriously compromised both Kennedy and the presidency itself, yet she told People magazine that the FBI quit its surveillance of her - and left her alone - once it was apparent that her affair with Kennedy was over.
The paragraph of quote beginning after the phrase "Bell writes..." finishes with the line:
Can anyone check the spelling of "Hy" please and either correct it, or give it a [ sic] tag, please?
In the trivia section, it states that Monroe's death is "extremely similar" to Presley's death. I have two things to ask about this: 1) Why is this important and 2) Monroe died from a drug overdose. Presley died from a heart condition caused by years of drug abuse and an otherwise unhealthy lifestyle. Hence, I dispute why this "fact" needs to be included at all. Naysie 06:03, 4 March 2007 (UTC) P.S. I don't understand "He excluded all he deemed morally responsible for her death." Can someone fix this sentence or explain what is meant?
I've just removed a section that was titled "FBI Agent", and that read:
The NYDN is not a reliable source. If this documentary comes out and is taken seriously by the NYT or similar, this factoid can go back in. -- Hoary 01:39, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
The New York Daily News has the largest circulation in New York City, even larger than the New York Times. But I have seen this also on CNN and ABC news not only in the Daily News. But lets not make this about the daily news, it’s about the FBI agent and the death of Marilyn Monroe. Plus they have recently declassified hundreds of pages about how she was murdered. I think this is a VERY important discovery! Plus according to IMDB the people on camera are all official's some in very high places, such as Daryl Gates who was the father of the SWAT team and head of the LAPD for almost two decades. I don’t believe this information should be censured because of your dislike of the New York Daily news. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bobtoo ( talk • contribs) 04:44, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
[bouncing leftwards] A reply to the comment above and the comment in the section below: there are many millions of people out there who know of the involvement of the Kennedy's and the FBI | Do they just know it in their gut, or do they have evidence for it? If they have evidence, where is this evidence? ¶ Nobody has questioned that the NYDN has a huge circulation. Its own article in WP says that it's a tabloid. If it has something important to say, why does it say this in a gossip column? ¶ IMDB.com the most respected and only mainstream database about the film world | How difficult is it for a movie production company (etc.) to have Imdb recycle its promotional material? ¶ There are over a dozen officials according to the news and IMDB. You really think dozens of officials, producers, the FBI, the director, Chris Rock's brother, and many more people would let there names be thrown around like that? | Now I don't even know what you're talking about. Wasn't the claim that one very old and sick ex-policeman had said something to one film producer? ¶ It is about time the truth be told! | Wikipedia is not a soapbox. ¶ You must be a Kennedy or government employ for trying so hard to cover this up. | Slight tendency to aggrandize, no? ¶ trust me | After your "Takashi Oyama"? That's rather a tall order. -- Hoary 06:21, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
[Un-indent] Speaking for myself, I don't have a problem with citing a news article in the Daily News, but the source is a gossip column. FBI.com is a blank page and (presumably) not owned by the FBI, I assume you mean fbi.gov. Why not simply cite the actual FBI document(s), or one of the other news articles, instead of a gossip column? As you suggested I ran a Google search on "Keya Morgan" "Marilyn Monroe" ( [2]), which does not turn up anything else that I would call reliable (but I gave up after scrolling through 3 or 4 pages of results). The New York Times is not linked until the third page of results, and the article is about a Joe DiMaggio auction, not about the film or its assertions. I'll also refer you to Wikipedia policy, which says "routine and insubstantial news coverage, such as announcements, sports, gossip, and tabloid journalism, are not sufficient basis for an article" (my emphasis). And as Hoary suggested, you can file a checkuser request if you suspect we're the same person. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 09:37, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
[Un-indent] That it is the Daily News is immaterial, the text cites a gossip column that, in turn, cites an unfinished film. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 08:39, 6 October 2007 (UTC)
There is no way the largest paper in New York City is going to drop the names of the FBI, Chief of Police of the LAPD, Beverly Hills Police, District Attorney, and a Hollywood producer without getting sued or in trouble.-- USA1812 10:11, 7 October 2007 (UTC)
User:Bobtoo maintains that the FBI Agent section presents important information from reliable sources. User:Gyrofrog and User:Hoary counter that the only attributed source is a gossip column, which they feel is unreliable. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 02:59, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
Bobtoo, you are free to post in this section (as far as I know), but the intent of this section is to request outside input in hopes of resolving the dispute (which I figure you might appreciate as well as I would). Your responses to me or Hoary (and vice versa) belong in the previous section. Thanks, -- Gyrofrog (talk) 09:51, 23 September 2007 (UTC)
User:Dlabtot provides the only serious comment on this link to a gossip column, and it's a clear "no". I have therefore removed the link. If this documentary is completed and has a theatrical release, surely it will prompt scrupulous people to reinvestigate the story; the results will appear credible sources, which can be used and credited. -- Hoary 01:02, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
[Bouncing left.] I self-reverted. After all, I mustn't tot up too many reversions in one day, even if the reversions consist of removing tiresome readditions of gossip-column-sourced tittle-tattle.
Say, Bobtoo, you write FBI.gov has close to one hundred pages pertaining to Marilyn Monroe and this case. There are a lot of inofrmation about her death. [Sprinkle "sic" to taste.] Precisely what claim do you want to make, and on precisely which of these close to one hundred pages is your evidence for this? You could cite this, instead of resorting to some gossip columnist's account of what some obscure producer of a non-existent movie is said to have said. -- Hoary 13:27, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
You guys are all missing the main point. This is about Marilyn Monroe, and should not be about your egos and writing wars. How childish! How old are you guys? We should be discussing how she was killed. Anyone in there right mind knows she did not kill herself. The question should be, who? Stop the fighting, she was a living human being who lost her life at a very young age. VERY SAD! Please remember that she was a real person, not a puppet. R.I.P. PS-My father was married to her.-- Julia0101 05:39, 11 October 2007 (UTC)
I removed the sentence "Many individuals, including Jack Clemmons, the first Los Angeles Police Department officer to arrive at the death scene,[1] believe that she was murdered." The source makes no mention of Clemmons and is not a reliable source anyway. 24.189.171.34 ( talk) 21:33, 23 September 2008 (UTC)
it says he was preparing to marry him i think this is wrong —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.216.117.246 ( talk) 15:50, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
The article for "Marilyn Monroe" says about her death: "Many questions remain unanswered about the circumstances of her death..." However, this article claims that "All questions were answered after Monroe's death." Perhaps one of these articles need to be reworded to avoid confusion? —Preceding unsigned comment added by BozoDawg ( talk • contribs) 01:19, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
It's not a broken link, but it doesn't show the will. Would anyone like to fix the link or remove it? Thanks Kvsh5 ( talk) 06:18, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
The timeline information is 60% false and made up. Not a single reference or citation is given. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jackio573h ( talk • contribs) 11:08, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
68.200.180.97 ( talk) 00:13, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
I have just reverted a series of edits that asserted (among other things) that a 20th Century Fox documentary is "highly valuable"; that "we know that Marilyn was under attack by Fox Studios"; that "her death is still felt by millions as one of the great individual tragedies of her time"; and that The DD Group: An Online Investigation Into the Death of Marilyn Monroe "stands as the definitive investigative study, and report, on the issues leading up to and occurring in the death of Marilyn Monroe...."; note that it's a self-published source. See WP:NPOV and WP:SPS. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 18:35, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
"10:30 p.m.: According to actress Natalie Trundy (later Mrs. Arthur P. Jacobs), Monroe's agent Arthur P. Jacobs hurriedly leaves a concert at the Hollywood Bowl that he is attending with Trundy and director Mervyn LeRoy and his wife, after being informed by Monroe's lawyer Mickey Rudin that she has overdosed. Trundy's timeline fits with undertaker Guy Hockett's (see below) estimation that Monroe died sometime between 9:30 p.m. and 11:30 p.m." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eregli bob ( talk • contribs) 07:24, 5 August 2012
.== Citation needed, citation needed, citation needed ==
Why is there so much unsourced information in this page? It appears to have been tagged as such for over 4 years, shouldn't it just be removed? 122.59.195.213 ( talk) 04:30, 21 November 2014 (UTC)
I'm not sure I understand this statement in the lede. MM's death isn't really mentioned in sources discussing "top conspiracy theories". Two examples: Time [3] and Telegraph [4]. Is this statement based on a single source? Can we get further confirmation of this? And what exactly does the Vankin & Whalen source say on this? I cannot imagine that any conspiracy theory has more variations than the 9/11 conspiracies, or even the JFK assassination, so I don't really think this is an accurate statement. Thoughts? -- Louisstar ( talk) 11:52, 27 April 2015 (UTC)
"Written by an unnamed former FBI agent working for the then-California Governor Pat Brown," This is confusing because why would the federal govt FBI work for a governor of a state? I think it could be clarified a bit to help with confusion. On page 18 of this source: http://web.archive.org/web/20011030085124/http://foia.fbi.gov/monroe/monroe2.pdf
It says the special agent is "former special agent, field representative, appointment section, governors office, state of california." I'm not 100% sure and don't mean to do original research but I think he had previously worked for the FBI but then worked for the governor. But why did he make an FBI report then? This source http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2007/03/16/1173722744304.html says "It was compiled by an unnamed former special agent working for the then Democrat governor of California, Pat Brown, and forwarded to Washington by Curtis Lynum, then head of the San Francisco FBI." I think we should include how he forwarded it to Curtis Lynum who did work for the FBI at the time. Popish Plot ( talk) 15:14, 22 August 2015 (UTC)
[[:File:Marilyn Monroe 10 year death tribute 1972 (v2).jpg|thumb|Thousands of tributes and memorials since 1962 included Lars Jacob's 1972 procession "Marilyn from Everyone" in Miami Beach on the 10th anniversary of her death.]] TrueHeartSusie3: If we can get the black blocks removed, where do you think this might fit in? -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 17:22, 6 July 2016 (UTC)
Sorry not to have let this go entirely, as discussed in principle, but should something like this be removed? -- SergeWoodzing ( talk) 15:25, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
I quote the article: 'Against Monroe's wishes, Lee Strasberg had never distributed her effects amongst her friends,..'
I think this could be described as promoting a particular cause or point of view, especially a controversial one. Perhaps we agree that there was something creepy, almost obscene, about selling a celebrity’s personal belongings to strangers. Perhaps one wondered how Monroe would have reacted. However, Monroe’s will stipulated that 'I give and bequeath all of my personal effects and clothing to LEE STRASBERG, or if he should predecease me, then to my Executor hereinafter named, it being my desire that he distribute these, in his sole discretion, among my friends, colleagues and those to whom I am devoted.' So I think I have a quibble here, concerning what we take 'in his sole discretion' to mean, first of all, and secondly, what we take 'among my friends, colleagues and those to whom I am devoted' to mean. I hate to stick my nose into making updates to these Marilyn Monroe articles, because I see that there is much contention. However, I'm reading about something being against Monroe's wishes, which seems to imply that something is against her 'will'. Maybe so, but that would be illegal. Maybe take it to court, if you have a strong opinion about it, but does such an opinion belong here? DanLanglois ( talk) 09:39, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
Okay, I'm seeing two points, one about 'experts', and one about 'opinions'. I agree about opinions, I said this myself, that I don't think opinions belong here. In particular, I'm not interested in opinions which second-guess actions of the beneficiary of Marilyn Monroe's will. And it is simply a fact, that Marilyn Monroe left her belongings to Lee Strasberg, who has, and I quote, 'sole discretion'.
Secondly, as to your experts, my only hint as to who are these experts is the reference given, to Vanity Fair -- Patricia Bosworth. If she's an expert of any sort, in addition to being a former actress (one who had attended sessions at the Actors Studio in the 1950s and 60s), then okay, here's the link:
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2003/06/marilyn-monroe-and-lee-strasberg-200306
And, here's a quote: 'Monroe’s will stipulated that Lee Strasberg “distribute these, in his sole discretion, among my friends, colleagues and those to whom I am devoted.' So you see, the idea here is to interpret Marilyn Monroe's will. However, interpreting a will is a job for lawyers. Patricia Bosworth has a memoir, you know, about how she eloped with a dead-broke fortune-hunter who beat her up. I think her intention is to entertain with such stuff, about countless passes she rebuffed and such. I wonder if there are any alternative 'experts' on Marilyn Monroe's will, to consult? I'm simply seriously feeling misled by Wiki, I'm glad you brought up the standards, let's read them together. But I gave a fuller quote of that will of Marilyn Monroe's, and I note that this wiki article does not even clearly state that it is interpreting the wording of Marilyn Monroe's will. And as such an interpretation, of course I think it rather obviously mischievous. If it's not obvious then okay about that much I am wrong. However, Marilyn Monroe left her belongings to Lee Strasberg. Furthermore, let's recall that Monroe’s image and likeness were so valuable that a multi-million dollar lawsuit over her publicity rights raged on, more than fifty years after she died, until it was finally resolved by a federal court of appeals. Lawyers have been over this will, to say the least. I will offer my quote from Marilyn Monroe's will again: 'I give and bequeath all of my personal effects and clothing to Lee Strasberg, or if he should predecease me, then to my Executor hereinafter named, it being my desire that he distribute these, in his sole discretion, among my friends, colleagues and those to whom I am devoted.'
What does this mean? Does it specify an ascertainable beneficiary? Does this language express an intent to create a trust? My point here is that it's not our business to second guess the beneficiary of the will who has 'sole discretion'. DanLanglois ( talk) 12:18, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
Do you also reference Spoto for his view that Marilyn Monroe was killed by a enema filled with broken-down pills? That's a rhetorical question, and I'm glad you brought up reading the entire article. Of course, I can see that the article does do exactly this. I give up, people. My parting shot is that you couldn't have referenced the actual coroner's report, eh? DanLanglois ( talk) 12:43, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
I was being sarcastic, as the article certainly does quote from the coroner's report. Look, I do not feel that my little quibble has even been understood -- interpreting a will is not as easy as all that, it's a matter of law. I don't want to just repeat myself. I think Marilyn Monroe's will needs to be quoted accurately, and interpreted gingerly, and I'd like to keep my scope narrowly on that point, we can debate Spoto's nonsense in another thread. DanLanglois ( talk) 12:56, 26 October 2017 (UTC)
I believe the word "clews" in the text below:
"Additional clews for suicide provided by the physical evidence ..."
Should be "clues", or "clews [sic]".
So, "Death of Marilyn Monroe" is in category 'Female models who committed suicide'. But Marilyn Monroe is not. Logical? I think not. 109.240.142.169 ( talk) 06:30, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
Changed the date from August 5 to the 4th, per the sources on the page (inquest determined that she died on the evening of the 4th). Reverted with a mention of the death certificate saying August 5 (the death certificate lists 3 a.m. on the 5th, the time her body was found). Would the inquest estimate be used and sourced, or use the death certificate which, because of the inquest findings and because it lists the time of body-discovery, may be in error as to the exact time of death? thanks. Randy Kryn ( talk) 20:16, 15 April 2019 (UTC)
Is it not true Eunice Murray and her husband were members of the Communist Party? Simon Le Messurier ( talk) 19:49, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
Not to be confused with Eunice Murray, the suffrage campaigner. Simon Le Messurier ( talk) 19:41, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
- but it relates to this Eunice R Murray, so I will move it into this talk section, below.
Apologies if this is the incorrect protocol, but it confuses readers on the other Eunice Murray unnecessarily. Thanks
Kaybeesquared ( talk) 15:55, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on August 29 2015. The result of the discussion was delete. |
Kaybeesquared ( talk) 15:55, 24 January 2021 (UTC)
https://www.realtime1960s.com/post/president-s-youngest-brother-roughed-up-in-boston-debate . .
Edward Kennedy evening of Aug. 27, 1962 his primary debate.
[1]
Death of Marilyn Monroe August 3 1962.
Monroe's was a fortuitous death avoiding a hypothetical pending scandal of unprecedented immensity in American political and social history. The reported projected press conference by the actress claimed by the actress in an impetuous outburst for her purpose of calling a convocation of reporters and journalists to "lift the lid off this whole damn thing" was never held. It is time, about time, or soon to be on time, that the lady's death and the initiate month of the youngest Kennedy's political life is understood in an extraordinary close proximity of chronology.
"Let's go!" said Dwight Eisenhower and D-day was commenced.
The word from whom set in motion the blonde celebrity's death?
It can be considered among some carefully selected considerations within which occurred the decision for the fateful elimination.
There is no publication permitting citation that would allow the youngest brother to be brought to the Wikipedia page in the matter of the Death of Marilyn Monroe. Laurencebeck ( talk) 04:18, 15 November 2022 (UTC) . . edited -- Laurencebeck ( talk) 02:00, 10 April 2023 (UTC)