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"Keenan Anderson running in the middle of the road, asking a motorcycle-riding officer to help"
There's no evidence for this, the video shows Anderson ignoring instructions and yelling "they're trying to kill me" and then running off. Going on videos of other such police stops, it is possible Anderson, in the hope of beating the original traffic accident rap, was trying to provoke the cop into exceeding his authority and then get off in court because of the ‘racism’ of the cop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUuYxIb5mrs (01:08) 92.29.64.205 ( talk) 02:25, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
Bodycam video shows Anderson running in the middle of the street alongside a motorcycle officer. He tells the officer to help him and points in another direction.CT55555( talk) 02:32, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
The toxicology report was done by the police. The police are linked to his death. They are not a neutral source. I think who ever removed this from the lede was correct. Correct that it should be mentioned, but not given top tier prominence. I think we should err on the side of mild caution - i.e. include it, but not in the lede. I'm about to delete it from the lede and ask that anyone who disagrees or agrees discus here. CT55555( talk) 02:40, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
A report by the police department's toxicology unit found that Anderson tested positive for cocaine metabolite and cannabinoids, Muñiz said.
A preliminary toxicology-blood screen of Anderson’s blood samples tested positive for cocaine and marijuana, police said
A toxicology report produced by the LAPD showed that Mr Anderson's blood tested positive for cannabis and cocaine.
The LAPD said its forensic toxicology unit conducted a toxicology exam on Jan. 5 and determined Anderson had cocaine metabolite and cannabinoids in his system
LAPD said that they discovered Cocaine Metabolite and Cannabinoids in Anderson's blood.
The LAPD chief, Michel Moore, said in a news conference that Anderson’s behavior was “erratic” and he suffered a “medical emergency”. He claimed that a preliminary blood test revealed cannabis and cocaine in Anderson’s system.
An LAPD toxicology test found cocaine and cannabis in Anderson’s body
Moore added that Anderson was in an “altered mental state” and claimed that a preliminary blood test from police showed that cannabis and cocaine were in his system.
A preliminary toxicology report from police found cocaine and cannabis in Anderson's body, according to Moore.
“Mr. Anderson’s specimens tested positive for cocaine and cannabis,” Moore said.
You pointing out that the police's claim should get more weight is fair. So we all agree that the police’s claim should get more weight than the ACLU Vice News claim, but that isn’t borne out by the body. The body devotes 16 words to the police’s claim, then the body devotes 40 words (2.5 times weight) to the ACLU Vice News claim that you clearly support. I have chosen not to remove the ACLU Vice News claim at this time. Thus, to grant the police’s claim more weight, it should be in the lede. TL;DR: you agree that it is fair for the police claim to have more weight than the ACLU Vice News claim, but to remove the police claim from the lede would result in the ACLU Vice News claim having 2.5x the weight of the police claim. starship .paint ( exalt) 01:18, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
Relevant: "LAPD’s Release of Drug Tests Is Smearing Keenan Anderson, Groups Say: The Black teacher died hours after being tasered six times by the LAPD. Police later released preliminary drug tests, which experts say mean little more than a public relations tactic. CT55555( talk) 01:33, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
Removing it from the lede at this point. Abe g92 contribs 18:45, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
maybe?WP:RFCBRIEF it certainly is, but it tells us absolutely nothing about the matter in hand. See WP:RFCST before trying again. -- Redrose64 🌹 ( talk) 00:05, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
RfC on toxicology report in lead. Right after that comes the RfC tag, with the relevant topic areas. Three possibilities are Biographies; Politics, government, and law; and Society, sports, and culture (it's ok to pick more than one). Then we need a brief, neutral statement of the choice at hand. I think it could be as simple as
"Should the lead mention the preliminary police toxicology report and its finding of cocaine and marijuana in the blood samples?"I'm not dramatically opposed to running an RfC, but I'd love to see if we could get this done with less community effort investment. My first thought is: starship.paint, do you still support inclusion in the lead? Are we at least at a "no consensus" point, where the safe move is removal? If not, could we post a neutrally-worded message at the Neutral point of view noticeboard, since this is mainly a dispute over WP:DUE? Firefangledfeathers ( talk / contribs) 17:23, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The title of this article should be changed to "Murder of", not "Death of". Keenan Anderson was clearly murdered by LAPD.
/info/en/?search=Death_of_Keenan_Anderson Jvalli ( talk) 19:32, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
Given that details are only just coming out of his death, it may be appropriate to add a {{ Recent death presumed}} tag or otherwise appropriate marker. GuardianH ( talk) 03:28, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
User @
Starship.paint deleted my content (
diff link) because it cited
Vice Media. Note:
WP:VICE. I think they have a mistaken understanding what to do when Wikipedia lacks consensus if a source is reliable or not. Vice News is not a perennial source.
WP:MREL guides us what to do for such sources. I quote that sources of this typoe may be usable depending on context
. The general guidance for sources of this type is that it is necessary to evaluate each use of the source on a case-by-case basis
. My assessment is that we need to be cautious about Vice, but my edit was a quote from the notable
American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California. We can reasonably conclude that if Vice misquoted
American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California (an organisation notable for litigation) would loudly correct them and possibly litigate against them, so people are unlikely to falsely quote
American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California. I would probably avoid opinion from Vice, but I think we can reasonably use quotes they provide in an article that done by the following journalist who specialises in this topic, see
https://www.vice.com/en/contributor/manisha-krishnan. I am therefore reverting the edit and kick starting this chat in the hope of convincing @
Starship.paint and getting wider input and consensus.
CT55555(
talk)
13:11, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources, in proportion to the prominence of each viewpoint in the published, reliable sources. The police's view deserves more weight.
minority view, fringe theory, or extraordinary claimand to quote that guideline here is very wide of the mark.
marginally reliable (i.e. neither generally reliable nor generally unreliable), and may be usable depending on context. You can urge me in any direction you want, but I'm following the guidelines here, using Vice News as I have done is appropriate. You pointing out that the police's claim should get more weight is fair, but suggesting Vice should not be used is incorrect. CT55555( talk) 13:31, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
Suggest compromise @ XavierItzm and CT55555: Paraphrase this sentence from HuffPost, which has been rated more reliable than Vice. Civil liberties groups criticized the release of a preliminary drug test as an attempt to smear Anderson’s character. Use the paraphrase in lieu of the Vice direct quote. starship .paint ( exalt) 09:00, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
Mr. Keenan Anderson was a 10th grade English teacher at Digital Pioneers Academy, Washington, DC. He was a deeply committed educator and father of a six-year-old son. He had over eight years of experience as a teacher and leader. In less than six months at Digital Pioneers Academy, he established strong relationships with scholars and staff.
Mr. Anderson's students deserve to have strong role models, to live without fear, and to have the opportunity to reach their fullest potential.
https://www.digitalpioneersacademy.org/in-memory-keenan-anderson 2001:48F8:3029:3E0:0:0:0:DF21 ( talk) 15:44, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
It is a shame to see that Wikipedia has edited the Happenings to fit the Description of Los Angeles Police Departmeng. Very shameful. I am ashamed of myself that I paid 20 Euro to support Wikipedia. (unsigned comments by Special:Contributions/2A02:810B:4C0:664B:355E:4F06:628D:9018)
That isn't where he died. Mr JD Green ( talk) 10:03, 22 July 2023 (UTC)
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"Keenan Anderson running in the middle of the road, asking a motorcycle-riding officer to help"
There's no evidence for this, the video shows Anderson ignoring instructions and yelling "they're trying to kill me" and then running off. Going on videos of other such police stops, it is possible Anderson, in the hope of beating the original traffic accident rap, was trying to provoke the cop into exceeding his authority and then get off in court because of the ‘racism’ of the cop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUuYxIb5mrs (01:08) 92.29.64.205 ( talk) 02:25, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
Bodycam video shows Anderson running in the middle of the street alongside a motorcycle officer. He tells the officer to help him and points in another direction.CT55555( talk) 02:32, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
The toxicology report was done by the police. The police are linked to his death. They are not a neutral source. I think who ever removed this from the lede was correct. Correct that it should be mentioned, but not given top tier prominence. I think we should err on the side of mild caution - i.e. include it, but not in the lede. I'm about to delete it from the lede and ask that anyone who disagrees or agrees discus here. CT55555( talk) 02:40, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
A report by the police department's toxicology unit found that Anderson tested positive for cocaine metabolite and cannabinoids, Muñiz said.
A preliminary toxicology-blood screen of Anderson’s blood samples tested positive for cocaine and marijuana, police said
A toxicology report produced by the LAPD showed that Mr Anderson's blood tested positive for cannabis and cocaine.
The LAPD said its forensic toxicology unit conducted a toxicology exam on Jan. 5 and determined Anderson had cocaine metabolite and cannabinoids in his system
LAPD said that they discovered Cocaine Metabolite and Cannabinoids in Anderson's blood.
The LAPD chief, Michel Moore, said in a news conference that Anderson’s behavior was “erratic” and he suffered a “medical emergency”. He claimed that a preliminary blood test revealed cannabis and cocaine in Anderson’s system.
An LAPD toxicology test found cocaine and cannabis in Anderson’s body
Moore added that Anderson was in an “altered mental state” and claimed that a preliminary blood test from police showed that cannabis and cocaine were in his system.
A preliminary toxicology report from police found cocaine and cannabis in Anderson's body, according to Moore.
“Mr. Anderson’s specimens tested positive for cocaine and cannabis,” Moore said.
You pointing out that the police's claim should get more weight is fair. So we all agree that the police’s claim should get more weight than the ACLU Vice News claim, but that isn’t borne out by the body. The body devotes 16 words to the police’s claim, then the body devotes 40 words (2.5 times weight) to the ACLU Vice News claim that you clearly support. I have chosen not to remove the ACLU Vice News claim at this time. Thus, to grant the police’s claim more weight, it should be in the lede. TL;DR: you agree that it is fair for the police claim to have more weight than the ACLU Vice News claim, but to remove the police claim from the lede would result in the ACLU Vice News claim having 2.5x the weight of the police claim. starship .paint ( exalt) 01:18, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
Relevant: "LAPD’s Release of Drug Tests Is Smearing Keenan Anderson, Groups Say: The Black teacher died hours after being tasered six times by the LAPD. Police later released preliminary drug tests, which experts say mean little more than a public relations tactic. CT55555( talk) 01:33, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
Removing it from the lede at this point. Abe g92 contribs 18:45, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
maybe?WP:RFCBRIEF it certainly is, but it tells us absolutely nothing about the matter in hand. See WP:RFCST before trying again. -- Redrose64 🌹 ( talk) 00:05, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
RfC on toxicology report in lead. Right after that comes the RfC tag, with the relevant topic areas. Three possibilities are Biographies; Politics, government, and law; and Society, sports, and culture (it's ok to pick more than one). Then we need a brief, neutral statement of the choice at hand. I think it could be as simple as
"Should the lead mention the preliminary police toxicology report and its finding of cocaine and marijuana in the blood samples?"I'm not dramatically opposed to running an RfC, but I'd love to see if we could get this done with less community effort investment. My first thought is: starship.paint, do you still support inclusion in the lead? Are we at least at a "no consensus" point, where the safe move is removal? If not, could we post a neutrally-worded message at the Neutral point of view noticeboard, since this is mainly a dispute over WP:DUE? Firefangledfeathers ( talk / contribs) 17:23, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The title of this article should be changed to "Murder of", not "Death of". Keenan Anderson was clearly murdered by LAPD.
/info/en/?search=Death_of_Keenan_Anderson Jvalli ( talk) 19:32, 14 January 2023 (UTC)
Given that details are only just coming out of his death, it may be appropriate to add a {{ Recent death presumed}} tag or otherwise appropriate marker. GuardianH ( talk) 03:28, 15 January 2023 (UTC)
User @
Starship.paint deleted my content (
diff link) because it cited
Vice Media. Note:
WP:VICE. I think they have a mistaken understanding what to do when Wikipedia lacks consensus if a source is reliable or not. Vice News is not a perennial source.
WP:MREL guides us what to do for such sources. I quote that sources of this typoe may be usable depending on context
. The general guidance for sources of this type is that it is necessary to evaluate each use of the source on a case-by-case basis
. My assessment is that we need to be cautious about Vice, but my edit was a quote from the notable
American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California. We can reasonably conclude that if Vice misquoted
American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California (an organisation notable for litigation) would loudly correct them and possibly litigate against them, so people are unlikely to falsely quote
American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California. I would probably avoid opinion from Vice, but I think we can reasonably use quotes they provide in an article that done by the following journalist who specialises in this topic, see
https://www.vice.com/en/contributor/manisha-krishnan. I am therefore reverting the edit and kick starting this chat in the hope of convincing @
Starship.paint and getting wider input and consensus.
CT55555(
talk)
13:11, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources, in proportion to the prominence of each viewpoint in the published, reliable sources. The police's view deserves more weight.
minority view, fringe theory, or extraordinary claimand to quote that guideline here is very wide of the mark.
marginally reliable (i.e. neither generally reliable nor generally unreliable), and may be usable depending on context. You can urge me in any direction you want, but I'm following the guidelines here, using Vice News as I have done is appropriate. You pointing out that the police's claim should get more weight is fair, but suggesting Vice should not be used is incorrect. CT55555( talk) 13:31, 16 January 2023 (UTC)
Suggest compromise @ XavierItzm and CT55555: Paraphrase this sentence from HuffPost, which has been rated more reliable than Vice. Civil liberties groups criticized the release of a preliminary drug test as an attempt to smear Anderson’s character. Use the paraphrase in lieu of the Vice direct quote. starship .paint ( exalt) 09:00, 17 January 2023 (UTC)
Mr. Keenan Anderson was a 10th grade English teacher at Digital Pioneers Academy, Washington, DC. He was a deeply committed educator and father of a six-year-old son. He had over eight years of experience as a teacher and leader. In less than six months at Digital Pioneers Academy, he established strong relationships with scholars and staff.
Mr. Anderson's students deserve to have strong role models, to live without fear, and to have the opportunity to reach their fullest potential.
https://www.digitalpioneersacademy.org/in-memory-keenan-anderson 2001:48F8:3029:3E0:0:0:0:DF21 ( talk) 15:44, 19 January 2023 (UTC)
It is a shame to see that Wikipedia has edited the Happenings to fit the Description of Los Angeles Police Departmeng. Very shameful. I am ashamed of myself that I paid 20 Euro to support Wikipedia. (unsigned comments by Special:Contributions/2A02:810B:4C0:664B:355E:4F06:628D:9018)
That isn't where he died. Mr JD Green ( talk) 10:03, 22 July 2023 (UTC)