This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
This article should obviously be on Wikinews. Wikipedia is not a new site. So why is it here? →Raul654 13:20, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)
Strange how I've had a turnaround on this issue. I was one of the earliest people arguing for something like a Wikinews. It wasn't long after 9/11 and I didn't think all the massive detail about that event merited inclusion in an encyclopedia. I feel the opposite now. One of Wikipedia's great strengths is going to be the almost insane level of detail on just about everything no matter how small or temporary. After a while the project will become something quite apart from a Britannica-style encyclopedia. It will be a massive compendium of almost everything in space and time publicly noteworthy in even the tiniest way, and this will be a distinguishing feature that no other published work, private or governmental, will come close to matching. So, we should encourage as much detail about as many things as possible. It might not be a bad idea to segregate certain things into Wikinews and then generously link between Wikipedia and Wikinews. But something tells me we will reach a point when Wikipedia will need to stop being promoted as an encyclopedia. It will need a new word. And that newly christened project will bring together Wikipedia, Wikinews and probably others. We can impose an artificial separation now by putting stuff like this article into Wikinews, but perhaps it's better to start thinking of what to call this new omni-compendium, because that's where it's all going (they will above all need to be tied under a common search engine). JDG 18:09, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The article mentions that the Nicene Creed was recited rather than the Apostle's Creed. I don't know if this is worldwide but in the US Catholic church the Nicene Creed is the standard creed recited at each Mass. The Apostles Creed is used on special occasions, particularly Masses with a large percentage of children in attendence, and when beginning the Rosary.
The Nicene Creed is always used at Anglican communion services. The Apostles Creed is used at Matins, etc Bill Tegner 07:43, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Can we find a sound recording (preferably in mp3) of the funeral, or at least the mass of requiem and Cardinal Ratzinger's speech?
I've amended "An American deacon, Paul Moss, began by singing, "The Gospel according to John."" - according to the RC Archbishop of Birmingham, UK, commentating on the BBC TV coverage, Moss is English, and he will be ordaining Paul Moss next July and he will be working in the Birmingham archdiocese. -- Arwel 01:15, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Does anyone have a list of the cardinals presiding over the novembiales masses, the dates they presided and the churches they hosted the masses? -- Gerald Farinas 04:41, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
How about listing leaders from diffrent religions who attended the funeral? -- Jojit fb 04:07, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I know that it was a Panahida ceremony, and that one of the things they said was Christos Anesti, Christ has risen. Archbishop John Patrick Foley, the Vatican communications office translator, said they were saying Eternal Memory, but in fact that chant cannot be used during Easter season. It should go in the article, but I can't find very much about it! -- Bluejay Young 07:52, Apr 18, 2005 (UTC)--
The text says: "After the singing of the Litany of the Saints, the patriarchs, archbishops and metropolitans of the Eastern Churches, including those not in full communion with the Holy See, approached the coffin of Pope John Paul II for their own rituals of commendation and farewell." Is this correct? I recognized them all as Catholics. In other words, these were the leaders of Eastern churches in communion with the Holy See. The Orthodox delegates watched from a distance. Dakno 02:16, 31 December 2006
The reason for the disputed number of cardinals present at the Mass of Requiem ("the number of members present has been variously given as 157 and 164" someone added to the text of the article) is that some people don't count the Eastern Rite patriarchs, some of whom are actually members of the College of Cardinals, too. -- Gerald Farinas 15:21, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Does anyone have any info on that huge tapestry of the Resurrection (or maybe it was the Ascension) which hung above the main doors of St. Peter's during the funeral? 25 years ago American news would have been sure to research and share the name of the artist, medium (dyed cotton yarn on linen backing or whatever), date of composition, etc.,., but you won't get that kind of thing now from Anderson Cooper, Brian Williams et. al. and friends. Please throw this info into the article if you have it. JDG 18:17, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I was surprised to see this entire article moved from Funeral of Pope John Paul II to Death and funeral of Pope John Paul II without discussion on this talk page. Because there was no discussion, I am reverting it to its original article title. Please discuss your reasons here before making such drastic moves. -- Gerald Farinas 03:38, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I don't believe this sentence is correct (referring to Pope John Paul II being referred to as the Great):
I am unaware of any Vatican rules giving individual members of the college such authority. I am aware, under Universi Dominici Gregis, that during the interregnum only the sacred college as a college has such authority, and even then they are restricted, both in Universi and in canon 335 of the 1983 code, to no innovation sede vacante. Thus, I will remove the sentence until a source can be provided. Pmadrid 00:23, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
Pall bears are chosen (or selected if you prefer), but aren't consecrated. In Catholicism, only objects (altars for example) or people are consecrated (consecrated life). Both suggest a PERMANENT reality, not a temporary one. DaveTroy 12:21, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
This article did not go through the current GAN nomination process. Looking at the article as is, it fails on criteria 2b of the GA quality standards. Although references are provided, the citation of sources is essential for verifiability. Most Good Articles use inline citations. I would recommend that this be fixed, to reexamine the article against the GA quality standards, and to submit the article through the nomination process. -- RelHistBuff 10:20, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
There are three images included in this article of visiting delegates from the US. This clearly isn't representative of those present. I suggest that two of these be substituted with images of delegates from other countries.
It might have been "thought [by some] that billions watched the funeral", but I was in Australia at the time, and the viewing figures were a lot less than expected. Generally there was an air of media-hype. When the Pope died they were talking about the world's "one billion Catholics". Within two weeks that had become "1.4 billion practicing Catholics". Bill Tegner 07:49, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Per Talk:Honours of Winston Churchill#Please check this citation Majoreditor pointed out that there is no confirmation to that statement. Did you just copy from there, or might you give your own sources? FloK 11:56, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
I think that picture blaring right at the top of the article is offensive and unecessary! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.49.76.211 ( talk) 05:52, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
The page Death and funeral of Pope John Paul II is currently redirecting to this page, but I propose of moving this page into Death and funeral of Pope John Paul II. Both topics are similar in nature (it deals with Death), and besides, it can enable editors to shorten the article John Paul II and move it here, as it is considered too long. There is article with similar title: Death and funeral of Richard Nixon. w.tanoto-soegiri ( talk) 20:44, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
"The body of Pope John Paul II was exhumed first in the Papal Residence and venerated by the Clergy before a procession, after which it was placed in St. Peter's Basilica; The Swiss Guard remained always beside the body while it was exhumed. "
Exhumed, in english, means dug up from the grave. That meaning seems to make no sense here. Eregli bob ( talk) 03:06, 23 August 2012 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
This article should obviously be on Wikinews. Wikipedia is not a new site. So why is it here? →Raul654 13:20, Apr 8, 2005 (UTC)
Strange how I've had a turnaround on this issue. I was one of the earliest people arguing for something like a Wikinews. It wasn't long after 9/11 and I didn't think all the massive detail about that event merited inclusion in an encyclopedia. I feel the opposite now. One of Wikipedia's great strengths is going to be the almost insane level of detail on just about everything no matter how small or temporary. After a while the project will become something quite apart from a Britannica-style encyclopedia. It will be a massive compendium of almost everything in space and time publicly noteworthy in even the tiniest way, and this will be a distinguishing feature that no other published work, private or governmental, will come close to matching. So, we should encourage as much detail about as many things as possible. It might not be a bad idea to segregate certain things into Wikinews and then generously link between Wikipedia and Wikinews. But something tells me we will reach a point when Wikipedia will need to stop being promoted as an encyclopedia. It will need a new word. And that newly christened project will bring together Wikipedia, Wikinews and probably others. We can impose an artificial separation now by putting stuff like this article into Wikinews, but perhaps it's better to start thinking of what to call this new omni-compendium, because that's where it's all going (they will above all need to be tied under a common search engine). JDG 18:09, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The article mentions that the Nicene Creed was recited rather than the Apostle's Creed. I don't know if this is worldwide but in the US Catholic church the Nicene Creed is the standard creed recited at each Mass. The Apostles Creed is used on special occasions, particularly Masses with a large percentage of children in attendence, and when beginning the Rosary.
The Nicene Creed is always used at Anglican communion services. The Apostles Creed is used at Matins, etc Bill Tegner 07:43, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Can we find a sound recording (preferably in mp3) of the funeral, or at least the mass of requiem and Cardinal Ratzinger's speech?
I've amended "An American deacon, Paul Moss, began by singing, "The Gospel according to John."" - according to the RC Archbishop of Birmingham, UK, commentating on the BBC TV coverage, Moss is English, and he will be ordaining Paul Moss next July and he will be working in the Birmingham archdiocese. -- Arwel 01:15, 9 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Does anyone have a list of the cardinals presiding over the novembiales masses, the dates they presided and the churches they hosted the masses? -- Gerald Farinas 04:41, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)
How about listing leaders from diffrent religions who attended the funeral? -- Jojit fb 04:07, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I know that it was a Panahida ceremony, and that one of the things they said was Christos Anesti, Christ has risen. Archbishop John Patrick Foley, the Vatican communications office translator, said they were saying Eternal Memory, but in fact that chant cannot be used during Easter season. It should go in the article, but I can't find very much about it! -- Bluejay Young 07:52, Apr 18, 2005 (UTC)--
The text says: "After the singing of the Litany of the Saints, the patriarchs, archbishops and metropolitans of the Eastern Churches, including those not in full communion with the Holy See, approached the coffin of Pope John Paul II for their own rituals of commendation and farewell." Is this correct? I recognized them all as Catholics. In other words, these were the leaders of Eastern churches in communion with the Holy See. The Orthodox delegates watched from a distance. Dakno 02:16, 31 December 2006
The reason for the disputed number of cardinals present at the Mass of Requiem ("the number of members present has been variously given as 157 and 164" someone added to the text of the article) is that some people don't count the Eastern Rite patriarchs, some of whom are actually members of the College of Cardinals, too. -- Gerald Farinas 15:21, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Does anyone have any info on that huge tapestry of the Resurrection (or maybe it was the Ascension) which hung above the main doors of St. Peter's during the funeral? 25 years ago American news would have been sure to research and share the name of the artist, medium (dyed cotton yarn on linen backing or whatever), date of composition, etc.,., but you won't get that kind of thing now from Anderson Cooper, Brian Williams et. al. and friends. Please throw this info into the article if you have it. JDG 18:17, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I was surprised to see this entire article moved from Funeral of Pope John Paul II to Death and funeral of Pope John Paul II without discussion on this talk page. Because there was no discussion, I am reverting it to its original article title. Please discuss your reasons here before making such drastic moves. -- Gerald Farinas 03:38, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I don't believe this sentence is correct (referring to Pope John Paul II being referred to as the Great):
I am unaware of any Vatican rules giving individual members of the college such authority. I am aware, under Universi Dominici Gregis, that during the interregnum only the sacred college as a college has such authority, and even then they are restricted, both in Universi and in canon 335 of the 1983 code, to no innovation sede vacante. Thus, I will remove the sentence until a source can be provided. Pmadrid 00:23, 27 January 2006 (UTC)
Pall bears are chosen (or selected if you prefer), but aren't consecrated. In Catholicism, only objects (altars for example) or people are consecrated (consecrated life). Both suggest a PERMANENT reality, not a temporary one. DaveTroy 12:21, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
This article did not go through the current GAN nomination process. Looking at the article as is, it fails on criteria 2b of the GA quality standards. Although references are provided, the citation of sources is essential for verifiability. Most Good Articles use inline citations. I would recommend that this be fixed, to reexamine the article against the GA quality standards, and to submit the article through the nomination process. -- RelHistBuff 10:20, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
There are three images included in this article of visiting delegates from the US. This clearly isn't representative of those present. I suggest that two of these be substituted with images of delegates from other countries.
It might have been "thought [by some] that billions watched the funeral", but I was in Australia at the time, and the viewing figures were a lot less than expected. Generally there was an air of media-hype. When the Pope died they were talking about the world's "one billion Catholics". Within two weeks that had become "1.4 billion practicing Catholics". Bill Tegner 07:49, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Per Talk:Honours of Winston Churchill#Please check this citation Majoreditor pointed out that there is no confirmation to that statement. Did you just copy from there, or might you give your own sources? FloK 11:56, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
I think that picture blaring right at the top of the article is offensive and unecessary! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.49.76.211 ( talk) 05:52, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
The page Death and funeral of Pope John Paul II is currently redirecting to this page, but I propose of moving this page into Death and funeral of Pope John Paul II. Both topics are similar in nature (it deals with Death), and besides, it can enable editors to shorten the article John Paul II and move it here, as it is considered too long. There is article with similar title: Death and funeral of Richard Nixon. w.tanoto-soegiri ( talk) 20:44, 30 January 2009 (UTC)
"The body of Pope John Paul II was exhumed first in the Papal Residence and venerated by the Clergy before a procession, after which it was placed in St. Peter's Basilica; The Swiss Guard remained always beside the body while it was exhumed. "
Exhumed, in english, means dug up from the grave. That meaning seems to make no sense here. Eregli bob ( talk) 03:06, 23 August 2012 (UTC)