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![]() | This article contains a translation of Смерть Алексея Навального from ru.wikipedia. |
As the death hasn't been independently confirmed by sources independent from Russia's government (notably, even Navalny's family is still hesitant about the claim), what precautions should be taken as to the potential BLP/BDP issues of reporting the death? Should it be announced as a death in wikivoice, or described with more nuance regarding the veracity of Russia's claims, only labeling it as reports and/or allegations for now? Chaotıċ Enby ( talk · contribs) 20:40, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
Can someone explain why this merits its own article, separate from Alexei Navalny? Brusquedandelion ( talk) 05:18, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
I am unable to edit this article but here is some information that might be useful to add.
More info in the extended box:
Extended content
|
---|
From an investigation by
Dagens Nyheter
[1]
––––––––––––––––––––––
––––––
––––––––––––––––––––––
––––––
––––––––––––––––––––––
–––––– –––––––––––––––––––––– |
88.118.103.139 ( talk) 19:45, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
References
Nadezhdin's political party released a statement calling Navalny's death "a political murder".
Without first rate information, is there not a real danger of this article being used to push political statements? 95.147.153.118 ( talk) 22:26, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
A large portion of this article rely exclusively on meduza.io as a source. This should be corrected. Brusquedandelion ( talk) 23:14, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
85avenue In your , you asked for a definition of "Western". The term is in the WP:RS. It comes from the second fragment of the title: "West holds Russia responsible". You could contact the authors, Guy Faulconbridge and Felix Light, and ask them. [1] I have provided more WP:RS that uses the same term. -- David Tornheim ( talk) 05:45, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
References
85avenue ( talk) 05:47, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
I believe the Death_of_Alexei_Navalny#Imprisonment section's WP:RS should only include WP:RS that also mentions his death. I put in some WP:RS that did not mention his death, [1], [2] because the text in the section was so far off from what the RS actually said and because one ref was WP:PRIMARY. The CNN source is one of the better ones that mention his detention -and- his death. [3] The text about the EU's position should be curtailed IMHO. -- David Tornheim ( talk) 06:58, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
Currently seems to be fine, to be honest. -- NoonIcarus ( talk) 15:11, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-68316979 Victor Grigas ( talk) 12:57, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
If you use a translation tool, you can see the hashtags being censored here:
Навальный АлексейНавальный FreeNavalny СвободуНавальному ЯМыНавальный НавальныйLive ФБК ФондБорьбыСКоррупцией УбийствоНавального ДелоНавального НавальныйВТюьме ПыткиНавального ЦензураВРоссии ПолитическиеРепресии РоссияБезПутина ЗаСвободнуюРоссию Навальный2024 НавальныйНашПрезидент ГеройРоссии СимволСпоротивления НадеждаРоссии
https://ru.wikinews.org/wiki/%D0%92_%D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%B8_%D0%BE%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%8E%D1%82_%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%B8_%D0%90%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B5%D1%8F_%D0%9D%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE Victor Grigas ( talk) 02:31, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
In case someone wants to add info that we don't have yet, e.g. the Mediazona report on Labytnangi to Salekhard transport of Navalny's body at 9:54 pm MSK = 18:54 UTC 16 Feb 2024: https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/02/18/timeline-alexei-navalnys-final-hours-a84137 Boud ( talk) 03:13, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
Hello, it seems that all the international reactions, and the reactions of the opposition of Russia and other countries are not mentioned in this article. Please add these reactions to make the article more complete. 151.235.232.13 ( talk) 05:55, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
While I support including a range of international reactions does anyone else feel the section is excessive? For example including reactions from multiple leaders per country, including in the case of the US the National Security Advisor describing it as a tragedy or reporting that the UK summoned the Russian ambassador. Any thoughts on what should be included and what should not? AusLondonder ( talk) 17:00, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
It could be relevant but I don't know whether to add it in "Death" or "Reactions", plus, the refusal of the authorities to release his remains and the appeals (including from Yarmysh) to release the remains to his family are already well-documented in the article. Jaguarnik ( talk) 12:25, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
Shouldn't there be a section detailing about his health before his suspicious execution? Was he malnourished or not fed properly or possible torturous methods that lead to his untimely death? Is there any relevant study about it? Or am i missing that portion if it's in the article already? zoglophie •talk• 07:31, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
The foot of this article links to a Commons category (via Wikidata, I assume) which is currently Commons:Category:Murder of Alexey Navalny. I know that Commons is a separate Project but it seems premature to call this a "murder". Can this be fixed by editing the article here or does there have to be a discussion on Commons? Mike Turnbull ( talk) 15:22, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
On 26 February 2024, the User Borgenland has added into the text of the article the following text:
"She [Maria Pevchikh] later added that the murder was part of a plot by Putin to thwart the release of Navalny and two American citizens in an exchange with former FSB officer Vadim Krasikov, who killed former Chechen field commander Zelimkhan Khangoshvili in Germany in 2019. [1]"
I would like to draw special attention to this statement.
First of all, I have to say that this statement seems like a little bit schizophrenic. Vladimir Putin was not obliged to release or exchange Alexei Navalny, and if Putin wanted to disrupt the deal for exchange, he could just say "No" instead the murder. At the same time, Putin had many other reasons to kill Navalny, and - particular - to kill him namely in that moment, and there's no relationship between these reasons and allegeded exchange.
Neither Russian, nor American, nor German officials have confirmed the fact of talks on exchange. After aforementioned statement, made by Maria Pevchikh, the following Western media reported about these alleged talks [2] [3] [4] [5] , but no one of these media have not reported that a deal was concluded. On the contrary, information about the stage of negotiations is inconsistent.
Vadim Krasikov is a Russian citizen and an agent of Russian security services, who killed Zelimkhan Khangoshvili in Germany by the order of the Kremlin. Navalny had only Russian citizenship. If an exchange would take place, this circumstance would have given the pro-Kremlin propaganda a reason to state that Alexei Navalny was an agent of security services of Western countries.
In this regard, I'd like to note that after the Pevchikh's statement, one Russian anonymous source said that Alexei Navalny and his wife were agreed to this deal [6] , despite the fact that Alexei, in his lifetime, said nothing about that, and his wife doesn't confirm that until now.
I consider, that unconfirmed officially such statements devalue Navalny's image as strong, irreconcilable, umbending opposition leader and could be a part of pro-Kremlin narrativ that all Russian opposition activists are "agents of West".
The fact that this statement was made by one of the leaders of Anti-Corruption Foundation, should not mislead us. The Anti-Corruption Foundation before the arrest of Navalny and the Anti-Corruption Foundation after his arrest, in fact, are two different organisations. After the arrest of their leader, they all emigrated to Europe and North America and didn't participate in political processes, which took place in Russia. They also evedad the advocacy of interests of Russians, who fleed the Putin's regime. Whole their work was to make next "investigations" of the next facts of corruption in the activity of next Russian officials that already could not surprise anybody, especially on the background of the war, unleashead by Putin. The statement of Pevchikh is a simple attempt of the Anti-Corruption Foundation to remind themselves and give themselves importance.
We should care about a well-balanced covering such statements, when we edit the articles dedicated to Alexei Navalny, bearing in mind the necessity to avoid unconfirmed information that could damage the reputation of the subject of the article.
References
K8M8S8 ( talk) 20:46, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNbOCMxYYG0 - says CC-BY at the top:
From Kanal13, news media out of Azerbaijan, I believe. See google search.
Overhead video of huge crowds on streets for very long distances. At 0:42 and 4:55 into the video. -- Timeshifter ( talk) 11:38, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
YouTube - Creative Commons. Search videos licensed as Creative Commons Attribution on YouTube by doing a search there. Then a filter menu will show up with one of the choices being "Creative Commons". This search pulls up CC-BY Navalny funeral videos:
The Youtube CC-BY page links to here:
This means these videos, or excerpts, can be uploaded to the Commons, and posted in this article.
Videos that aren't CC-BY, CC-BY-SA, or in the public domain can instead be linked to directly from the article. See:
Here is a Firefox addon I recommend for downloading Youtube videos:
Then you can upload the CC-BY and public domain videos (like VOA videos) to the Commons.
See: c:Commons:Video. And: c:Commons:YouTube files. -- Timeshifter ( talk) 15:48, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
Can someone provide an accurate translation of the church where Navalny's funeral was held? Because we currently have two sets of translations, one of which sounds like a rock music title. Borgenland ( talk) 13:18, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
https://www.semafor.com/article/03/05/2024/russian-authorities-use-facial-recognition-to-detain-navalny-funeral-attendees?utm_campaign=semaforreddit Victor Grigas ( talk) 02:11, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
As I am not allowed to edit this article, I'd like to propose an addition in the "Foreign opposition leaders" section when it comes to the Serbian opposition.
The Party of Freedom and Justice has issued condolences to the family of Alexei Navalny, claiming the Russian government finally achieved its intention and eliminated a man who fought for the freedom, justice, and development of a democratic Russia. Its leader, Dragan Đilas, highlighted the fact that Aleksandar Vulin, the former chief of Serbia's security agency, secretly spied on Russian oppositional figures. Marinika Tepić had drawn parallels between the Russian regime and the current Serbian president, while also claiming that such torture was conducted during the 1930s, alluding to Nazi Germany
Sources: https://ssp.rs/vesti-i-najave/aktivnosti/izjavljujemo-najdublje-sau%C4%8De%C5%A1%C4%87e-porodici-alekseja-navaljnog-supruzi-%C4%87erci-i-majci-kao-i-svim-njegovim-saradnicima/ https://n1info.rs/vesti/djilas-navaljni-covek-koji-se-citavog-zivota-borio-za-slobodu/ https://twitter.com/MarinikaTepic/status/1758574602928705881
The oppositional party "Zajedno" stated that this has only once again shown the anti-civilization-oriented regime of Vladimir Putin. The Democratic Party issued condolences to the family of Navalny, "all freedom-loving citizens of Russia" and have said that Vladimit Putin and the Russian regime are responsible for his death.
Boris Tadić, the former president of Serbia and president of the Social Democratic Party, said that the Kremlin is directly responsible for Navalny's death.
Source: https://twitter.com/BorisTadic58/status/1758637737916441005
As for the Serbian Government: The president of Serbia, Aleksandar Vučić, stated that the death of Navalny is a "tragedy and bad news for the whole world". Albeit, he was one of the only people to not join the ovations during the speech of Yulia Navalynaya, dedicated to her late husband. He also refused to sign an EU declaration assigning responsibility for the death of Russian opposition leader Aleksei Navalny to President Vladimir Putin
Sources: https://www.danas.rs/vesti/politika/vucic-navaljni/ https://www.rferl.org/a/serbia-eu-position-navalny-noncompliance/32842696.html Hayyaat ( talk) 21:21, 2 July 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Death and funeral of Alexei Navalny article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article was nominated for deletion on 16 February 2024. The result of the discussion was SNOW keep. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article contains a translation of Смерть Алексея Навального from ru.wikipedia. |
As the death hasn't been independently confirmed by sources independent from Russia's government (notably, even Navalny's family is still hesitant about the claim), what precautions should be taken as to the potential BLP/BDP issues of reporting the death? Should it be announced as a death in wikivoice, or described with more nuance regarding the veracity of Russia's claims, only labeling it as reports and/or allegations for now? Chaotıċ Enby ( talk · contribs) 20:40, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
Can someone explain why this merits its own article, separate from Alexei Navalny? Brusquedandelion ( talk) 05:18, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
I am unable to edit this article but here is some information that might be useful to add.
More info in the extended box:
Extended content
|
---|
From an investigation by
Dagens Nyheter
[1]
––––––––––––––––––––––
––––––
––––––––––––––––––––––
––––––
––––––––––––––––––––––
–––––– –––––––––––––––––––––– |
88.118.103.139 ( talk) 19:45, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
References
Nadezhdin's political party released a statement calling Navalny's death "a political murder".
Without first rate information, is there not a real danger of this article being used to push political statements? 95.147.153.118 ( talk) 22:26, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
A large portion of this article rely exclusively on meduza.io as a source. This should be corrected. Brusquedandelion ( talk) 23:14, 17 February 2024 (UTC)
85avenue In your , you asked for a definition of "Western". The term is in the WP:RS. It comes from the second fragment of the title: "West holds Russia responsible". You could contact the authors, Guy Faulconbridge and Felix Light, and ask them. [1] I have provided more WP:RS that uses the same term. -- David Tornheim ( talk) 05:45, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
References
85avenue ( talk) 05:47, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
I believe the Death_of_Alexei_Navalny#Imprisonment section's WP:RS should only include WP:RS that also mentions his death. I put in some WP:RS that did not mention his death, [1], [2] because the text in the section was so far off from what the RS actually said and because one ref was WP:PRIMARY. The CNN source is one of the better ones that mention his detention -and- his death. [3] The text about the EU's position should be curtailed IMHO. -- David Tornheim ( talk) 06:58, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
Currently seems to be fine, to be honest. -- NoonIcarus ( talk) 15:11, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-68316979 Victor Grigas ( talk) 12:57, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
If you use a translation tool, you can see the hashtags being censored here:
Навальный АлексейНавальный FreeNavalny СвободуНавальному ЯМыНавальный НавальныйLive ФБК ФондБорьбыСКоррупцией УбийствоНавального ДелоНавального НавальныйВТюьме ПыткиНавального ЦензураВРоссии ПолитическиеРепресии РоссияБезПутина ЗаСвободнуюРоссию Навальный2024 НавальныйНашПрезидент ГеройРоссии СимволСпоротивления НадеждаРоссии
https://ru.wikinews.org/wiki/%D0%92_%D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%B8_%D0%BE%D0%B3%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%8E%D1%82_%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%B8_%D0%90%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BA%D1%81%D0%B5%D1%8F_%D0%9D%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE Victor Grigas ( talk) 02:31, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
In case someone wants to add info that we don't have yet, e.g. the Mediazona report on Labytnangi to Salekhard transport of Navalny's body at 9:54 pm MSK = 18:54 UTC 16 Feb 2024: https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2024/02/18/timeline-alexei-navalnys-final-hours-a84137 Boud ( talk) 03:13, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
Hello, it seems that all the international reactions, and the reactions of the opposition of Russia and other countries are not mentioned in this article. Please add these reactions to make the article more complete. 151.235.232.13 ( talk) 05:55, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
While I support including a range of international reactions does anyone else feel the section is excessive? For example including reactions from multiple leaders per country, including in the case of the US the National Security Advisor describing it as a tragedy or reporting that the UK summoned the Russian ambassador. Any thoughts on what should be included and what should not? AusLondonder ( talk) 17:00, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
It could be relevant but I don't know whether to add it in "Death" or "Reactions", plus, the refusal of the authorities to release his remains and the appeals (including from Yarmysh) to release the remains to his family are already well-documented in the article. Jaguarnik ( talk) 12:25, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
Shouldn't there be a section detailing about his health before his suspicious execution? Was he malnourished or not fed properly or possible torturous methods that lead to his untimely death? Is there any relevant study about it? Or am i missing that portion if it's in the article already? zoglophie •talk• 07:31, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
The foot of this article links to a Commons category (via Wikidata, I assume) which is currently Commons:Category:Murder of Alexey Navalny. I know that Commons is a separate Project but it seems premature to call this a "murder". Can this be fixed by editing the article here or does there have to be a discussion on Commons? Mike Turnbull ( talk) 15:22, 23 February 2024 (UTC)
On 26 February 2024, the User Borgenland has added into the text of the article the following text:
"She [Maria Pevchikh] later added that the murder was part of a plot by Putin to thwart the release of Navalny and two American citizens in an exchange with former FSB officer Vadim Krasikov, who killed former Chechen field commander Zelimkhan Khangoshvili in Germany in 2019. [1]"
I would like to draw special attention to this statement.
First of all, I have to say that this statement seems like a little bit schizophrenic. Vladimir Putin was not obliged to release or exchange Alexei Navalny, and if Putin wanted to disrupt the deal for exchange, he could just say "No" instead the murder. At the same time, Putin had many other reasons to kill Navalny, and - particular - to kill him namely in that moment, and there's no relationship between these reasons and allegeded exchange.
Neither Russian, nor American, nor German officials have confirmed the fact of talks on exchange. After aforementioned statement, made by Maria Pevchikh, the following Western media reported about these alleged talks [2] [3] [4] [5] , but no one of these media have not reported that a deal was concluded. On the contrary, information about the stage of negotiations is inconsistent.
Vadim Krasikov is a Russian citizen and an agent of Russian security services, who killed Zelimkhan Khangoshvili in Germany by the order of the Kremlin. Navalny had only Russian citizenship. If an exchange would take place, this circumstance would have given the pro-Kremlin propaganda a reason to state that Alexei Navalny was an agent of security services of Western countries.
In this regard, I'd like to note that after the Pevchikh's statement, one Russian anonymous source said that Alexei Navalny and his wife were agreed to this deal [6] , despite the fact that Alexei, in his lifetime, said nothing about that, and his wife doesn't confirm that until now.
I consider, that unconfirmed officially such statements devalue Navalny's image as strong, irreconcilable, umbending opposition leader and could be a part of pro-Kremlin narrativ that all Russian opposition activists are "agents of West".
The fact that this statement was made by one of the leaders of Anti-Corruption Foundation, should not mislead us. The Anti-Corruption Foundation before the arrest of Navalny and the Anti-Corruption Foundation after his arrest, in fact, are two different organisations. After the arrest of their leader, they all emigrated to Europe and North America and didn't participate in political processes, which took place in Russia. They also evedad the advocacy of interests of Russians, who fleed the Putin's regime. Whole their work was to make next "investigations" of the next facts of corruption in the activity of next Russian officials that already could not surprise anybody, especially on the background of the war, unleashead by Putin. The statement of Pevchikh is a simple attempt of the Anti-Corruption Foundation to remind themselves and give themselves importance.
We should care about a well-balanced covering such statements, when we edit the articles dedicated to Alexei Navalny, bearing in mind the necessity to avoid unconfirmed information that could damage the reputation of the subject of the article.
References
K8M8S8 ( talk) 20:46, 27 February 2024 (UTC)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNbOCMxYYG0 - says CC-BY at the top:
From Kanal13, news media out of Azerbaijan, I believe. See google search.
Overhead video of huge crowds on streets for very long distances. At 0:42 and 4:55 into the video. -- Timeshifter ( talk) 11:38, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
YouTube - Creative Commons. Search videos licensed as Creative Commons Attribution on YouTube by doing a search there. Then a filter menu will show up with one of the choices being "Creative Commons". This search pulls up CC-BY Navalny funeral videos:
The Youtube CC-BY page links to here:
This means these videos, or excerpts, can be uploaded to the Commons, and posted in this article.
Videos that aren't CC-BY, CC-BY-SA, or in the public domain can instead be linked to directly from the article. See:
Here is a Firefox addon I recommend for downloading Youtube videos:
Then you can upload the CC-BY and public domain videos (like VOA videos) to the Commons.
See: c:Commons:Video. And: c:Commons:YouTube files. -- Timeshifter ( talk) 15:48, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
Can someone provide an accurate translation of the church where Navalny's funeral was held? Because we currently have two sets of translations, one of which sounds like a rock music title. Borgenland ( talk) 13:18, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
https://www.semafor.com/article/03/05/2024/russian-authorities-use-facial-recognition-to-detain-navalny-funeral-attendees?utm_campaign=semaforreddit Victor Grigas ( talk) 02:11, 6 March 2024 (UTC)
As I am not allowed to edit this article, I'd like to propose an addition in the "Foreign opposition leaders" section when it comes to the Serbian opposition.
The Party of Freedom and Justice has issued condolences to the family of Alexei Navalny, claiming the Russian government finally achieved its intention and eliminated a man who fought for the freedom, justice, and development of a democratic Russia. Its leader, Dragan Đilas, highlighted the fact that Aleksandar Vulin, the former chief of Serbia's security agency, secretly spied on Russian oppositional figures. Marinika Tepić had drawn parallels between the Russian regime and the current Serbian president, while also claiming that such torture was conducted during the 1930s, alluding to Nazi Germany
Sources: https://ssp.rs/vesti-i-najave/aktivnosti/izjavljujemo-najdublje-sau%C4%8De%C5%A1%C4%87e-porodici-alekseja-navaljnog-supruzi-%C4%87erci-i-majci-kao-i-svim-njegovim-saradnicima/ https://n1info.rs/vesti/djilas-navaljni-covek-koji-se-citavog-zivota-borio-za-slobodu/ https://twitter.com/MarinikaTepic/status/1758574602928705881
The oppositional party "Zajedno" stated that this has only once again shown the anti-civilization-oriented regime of Vladimir Putin. The Democratic Party issued condolences to the family of Navalny, "all freedom-loving citizens of Russia" and have said that Vladimit Putin and the Russian regime are responsible for his death.
Boris Tadić, the former president of Serbia and president of the Social Democratic Party, said that the Kremlin is directly responsible for Navalny's death.
Source: https://twitter.com/BorisTadic58/status/1758637737916441005
As for the Serbian Government: The president of Serbia, Aleksandar Vučić, stated that the death of Navalny is a "tragedy and bad news for the whole world". Albeit, he was one of the only people to not join the ovations during the speech of Yulia Navalynaya, dedicated to her late husband. He also refused to sign an EU declaration assigning responsibility for the death of Russian opposition leader Aleksei Navalny to President Vladimir Putin
Sources: https://www.danas.rs/vesti/politika/vucic-navaljni/ https://www.rferl.org/a/serbia-eu-position-navalny-noncompliance/32842696.html Hayyaat ( talk) 21:21, 2 July 2024 (UTC)