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Has to be a better, legally useable picture than the snarling photograph ( http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fd/DeanSmithcropped.jpg/220px-DeanSmithcropped.jpg) in the right sidebar. RaqiwasSushi ( talk) 00:46, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
Hi all- It reads a little strange to me that under "Coaching Tree" Michael Jordan is simply mentioned as "majority owner of the Charlotte Bobcats." I understand it's his current association with basketball, but I'd think he's most notable as a six-time NBA champion, NBA five-time MVP, or even (as stated on his nba.com bio) "the greatest basketball player of all time." Some other members of the tree have more-notable past associations listed first, some have current associations listed first. (Cf. Brown, Doherty, Lebo, Cherry for some comparison of how current vs. previous activities are variously listed.) Nitsua60 ( talk) 16:26, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
Someone keeps adding the stat that Dean Smith is the losingest coach in ACC history. This is a section to discuss this addition. Remember ( talk) 17:36, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
Lately there have been attempts to mention - citing this article - the AFAM scandal. Quoting from the linked source, "According to the Raleigh News & Observer, UNC men's hoops players were responsible for 54 enrollments in sham classes under Dean Smith (1993-97), 17 under Bill Guthridge (1997-2000), 42 under Matt Doherty (2000-03), and 117 under current Tar Heels head man Roy Williams (2003-11)." (That article is misleading, since the actual article reports: "The investigation concluded that under Smith, there were 54 player enrollments in AFAM independent studies courses, though the report noted it was impossible, due to record keeping then, to tell then which of those enrollments were in legitimate independent studies and which were not.") Arbor to SJ ( talk) 20:43, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article10265399.html#storylink=cpy
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 10:42, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Dean Smith/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Leaving this at a B, because it still needs some things before it can be A (or nominated for GA), but you're close. Take a look at
WP:CITE and redo the citations to conform to that guideline. Also you have a "
peacock" sentence in the lead: "He has been recognized as one of the greatest coaches in American sports history" - by whom? Great job, though! Just a little bit and I'd nominate it for GA...
plange
03:02, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
|
Last edited at 18:02, 16 November 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 13:04, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved back to the status quo. It has been determined here that "Dean Smith" is the basketball coach's common name and that the basketball coach is the primary topic for the name "Dean Smith." -- Tavix ( talk) 16:29, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
Dean Edwards Smith → Dean Smith – This page was moved without discussion and against WP:COMMONNAME. The college basketball coach has always been recognized as the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for that name, hence Dean Smith (disambiguation) exists. I want this page moved back to where it has always been. – – Muboshgu ( talk) 15:46, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
&pws=0
) and a Google Books search both are overwhelming in favor of the basketball coach here. -
Niceguyedc
Go Huskies!
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Coming in peace to hopefully learn something about page naming. As a UK-based editor I feel quite confident saying that this Dean Smith is almost unknown in the UK. I have looked at the page view stats for the past year and Dean Smith has 152,600 compared with the soccer coach Dean Smith (footballer, born 1971) who has 167,700. There are a number of other Dean Smiths listed at the Dean Smith (disambiguation), if you total 2018 views they come to 185,000 vs Dean Smith's 167,700. I am currently not clear though why someone searching for 'Dean Smith' gets jumped straight to this page and not the disambiguation page. My gut reaction is that this Dean Smith should have a (basketball) after his name or similar. I may be wrong, this is not an area I claim expertise in so I'm posting here to hear views on this. This is one graphing I used to compare views this year: [2]
I have looked at WP:PRIMARYTOPIC guidance and it notes: that two major aspects that editors commonly consider are these:
Based on these bullets it seems that Dean Smith cannot be considered 'much more likely than any other single topic, as shown in my graph plot above, he was the second-placed 'Dean Smith' article in terms of views in 2018. However, Dean Smith does seem to have more weight on he second bullet as he had a very long and successful college basketball coaching career and won numerous awards and records. However, it is my opinion that this is a fact known to USA audiences mainly (he was not an international sport coach). Please let me know your views? I'm just opening a discussion and not proposing any move at the moment. Mountain cirque 13:04, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
I searched for 'Dean Smith' on Wikipedia. This is not the article I expected to arrive at.
It appears that I am not alone in being a little surprised by this. Indeed, the page for the Dean Smith that manages Aston Villa F.C. in the Premier League has received more hits in 9 of the past 12 months (including the last 8 in a row). Per WP:DETERMINEPRIMARY, This is one the main criteria to be considered when determining whether one page or another should be regarded as the 'primary' page. Searching for 'Dean Smith' through the modified Google Search string also returns an overwhelming number of results concerning the Aston Villa manager. I think it is fairly clear that there is, at the moment, WP:NOPRIMARY topic, and that this page should be disambiguated accordingly.
I have linked to this discussion on the talk page for the other Dean Smith mentioned, and in Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Basketball. Domeditrix ( talk) 14:12, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: No consensus to move. Pageviews are not sufficient to determine a lack of primacy, so clearly the only primary topic criteria the basketball coach has is long-term significance. However, no argument that he doesn't have enough "long-term educational significance" managed to win a consensus. It is evident that there is no consensus here that he does, either. (As an aside, these cross-oceanic debates on significance can be very heated at times. Kudos to everyone here for being highly civil.) ( non-admin closure) Red Slash 22:29, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
– As far as I can tell, at this point in time, it is difficult to make a strong case that this page, the Dean Smith of basketball, ought to be considered the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. While WP:DETERMINEPRIMARY doesn't set out a strict test, it does indicate some important data that ought to be considered. One of these is page hits. The page for the Dean Smith that manages Aston Villa F.C. in the Premier League has consistently received more hits [3] over the past three years. Another data point worthy of consideration is whether an internet search turns up an more results relating to one potential topic. Searching for 'Dean Smith' through the modified Google Search string results in both topics coming up, with no clear winner, indicating that there is WP:NOPRIMARY. The proper course of action when there is no primary topic is to disambiguate, and allow the disambiguation page to claim the 'main' title. Following what is set out in WP:NCSP#Basketball, this article would then be moved to 'Dean Smith (basketball)'.
Remember, per WP:NWFCTM, our goal is not to astonish readers, nor is it to put to the fore the article that we think is more worthy. Nobody doubts that Dean Smith is a legend of basketball, but it's increasingly clear that many readers are not looking for this article when they search for 'Dean Smith'. Domeditrix ( talk) 16:02, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
... with respect to long-term significance if it has substantially greater enduring notability and educational value than any other topic associated with that term.The only entry on Brittanica is for the basketball coach. A Google Book search only shows predominantly hits for the basketball coach, not the football coach. The basketball coach has been dead since 2015, yet still maintains ~600 views/day. — Bagumba ( talk) 12:49, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
As far as books ...what are they good for, right? Haha.— Bagumba ( talk) 17:41, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
...a man whose career began in the 60s and ended in the 90s, than for a man whose career is still ongoingshows the WP:RECENTISM at play in this nomination. – Muboshgu ( talk) 18:00, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was:
– Between this and the current Leicester City interim coach, the pageview analysis, https://pageviews.wmcloud.org/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&redirects=0&start=2015-07&end=2023-04&pages=Dean_Smith%7CDean_Smith_(footballer,_born_1971)%7CDean_Smith_(footballer,_born_1958)%7CDean_Smith_(pilot)%7CDean_Smith_(Australian_politician)%7CDean_Smith_(sprinter)%7CDean_Smith_(actor)%7CDean_Smith_(racing_driver) , shows there is less that 100,000 views between both the basketball and the interim coach so I don't see a standout primary topic among the Dean Smiths on Wikipedia. Iggy ( Swan) ( Contribs) 11:36, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
The only entry on Brittanica is for the basketball coach. A Google Book search only shows predominantly hits for the basketball coach, not the football coach. The basketball coach has been dead since 2015, yet still maintains ~600 views/day, and a bit more views than the footballer.— Bagumba ( talk) 17:03, 10 May 2023 (UTC)... with respect to long-term significance if it has substantially greater enduring notability and educational value than any other topic associated with that term.
...a number of users hitting the Dean Smith basketball coach page will actually be looking for the football manager...: The data does not support that theory. Wikinav shows that Dean Smith was not among the top 10 incoming sources for Dean Smith (footballer, born 1971), meaning that there was at most 147 clicks there from "Dean Smith" in the last recorded month—less than 5 views per day. [11]— Bagumba ( talk) 16:48, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
Wikipedia does not predict the future. Now is not the time to move the article. Stevie fae Scotland ( talk) 21:04, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
those who made the game[12] and is still the most viewed Dean Smith despite having not coached for several decades and been dead for several years. Alvaldi ( talk) 10:20, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
I suspect a large percentage of the basketball coach's views are people looking for the football guy and he still is not getting a dominant percentage of the views: The actual data says that in April, there were 21.2K views of Dean Smith, the basketball coach, of which 654 then clicked out to the footballer's page, or ~3%, not a "large percentage".— Bagumba ( talk) 09:48, 14 May 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Dean Smith article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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![]() | Dean Smith was one of the Sports and recreation good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Has to be a better, legally useable picture than the snarling photograph ( http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fd/DeanSmithcropped.jpg/220px-DeanSmithcropped.jpg) in the right sidebar. RaqiwasSushi ( talk) 00:46, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
Hi all- It reads a little strange to me that under "Coaching Tree" Michael Jordan is simply mentioned as "majority owner of the Charlotte Bobcats." I understand it's his current association with basketball, but I'd think he's most notable as a six-time NBA champion, NBA five-time MVP, or even (as stated on his nba.com bio) "the greatest basketball player of all time." Some other members of the tree have more-notable past associations listed first, some have current associations listed first. (Cf. Brown, Doherty, Lebo, Cherry for some comparison of how current vs. previous activities are variously listed.) Nitsua60 ( talk) 16:26, 17 November 2013 (UTC)
Someone keeps adding the stat that Dean Smith is the losingest coach in ACC history. This is a section to discuss this addition. Remember ( talk) 17:36, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
Lately there have been attempts to mention - citing this article - the AFAM scandal. Quoting from the linked source, "According to the Raleigh News & Observer, UNC men's hoops players were responsible for 54 enrollments in sham classes under Dean Smith (1993-97), 17 under Bill Guthridge (1997-2000), 42 under Matt Doherty (2000-03), and 117 under current Tar Heels head man Roy Williams (2003-11)." (That article is misleading, since the actual article reports: "The investigation concluded that under Smith, there were 54 player enrollments in AFAM independent studies courses, though the report noted it was impossible, due to record keeping then, to tell then which of those enrollments were in legitimate independent studies and which were not.") Arbor to SJ ( talk) 20:43, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article10265399.html#storylink=cpy
References
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 10:42, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Dean Smith/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Leaving this at a B, because it still needs some things before it can be A (or nominated for GA), but you're close. Take a look at
WP:CITE and redo the citations to conform to that guideline. Also you have a "
peacock" sentence in the lead: "He has been recognized as one of the greatest coaches in American sports history" - by whom? Great job, though! Just a little bit and I'd nominate it for GA...
plange
03:02, 17 August 2006 (UTC)
|
Last edited at 18:02, 16 November 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 13:04, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved back to the status quo. It has been determined here that "Dean Smith" is the basketball coach's common name and that the basketball coach is the primary topic for the name "Dean Smith." -- Tavix ( talk) 16:29, 28 July 2016 (UTC)
Dean Edwards Smith → Dean Smith – This page was moved without discussion and against WP:COMMONNAME. The college basketball coach has always been recognized as the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC for that name, hence Dean Smith (disambiguation) exists. I want this page moved back to where it has always been. – – Muboshgu ( talk) 15:46, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
&pws=0
) and a Google Books search both are overwhelming in favor of the basketball coach here. -
Niceguyedc
Go Huskies!
23:55, 20 July 2016 (UTC)Hello fellow Wikipedians, I have just modified 6 external links on Dean Smith. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Coming in peace to hopefully learn something about page naming. As a UK-based editor I feel quite confident saying that this Dean Smith is almost unknown in the UK. I have looked at the page view stats for the past year and Dean Smith has 152,600 compared with the soccer coach Dean Smith (footballer, born 1971) who has 167,700. There are a number of other Dean Smiths listed at the Dean Smith (disambiguation), if you total 2018 views they come to 185,000 vs Dean Smith's 167,700. I am currently not clear though why someone searching for 'Dean Smith' gets jumped straight to this page and not the disambiguation page. My gut reaction is that this Dean Smith should have a (basketball) after his name or similar. I may be wrong, this is not an area I claim expertise in so I'm posting here to hear views on this. This is one graphing I used to compare views this year: [2]
I have looked at WP:PRIMARYTOPIC guidance and it notes: that two major aspects that editors commonly consider are these:
Based on these bullets it seems that Dean Smith cannot be considered 'much more likely than any other single topic, as shown in my graph plot above, he was the second-placed 'Dean Smith' article in terms of views in 2018. However, Dean Smith does seem to have more weight on he second bullet as he had a very long and successful college basketball coaching career and won numerous awards and records. However, it is my opinion that this is a fact known to USA audiences mainly (he was not an international sport coach). Please let me know your views? I'm just opening a discussion and not proposing any move at the moment. Mountain cirque 13:04, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
I searched for 'Dean Smith' on Wikipedia. This is not the article I expected to arrive at.
It appears that I am not alone in being a little surprised by this. Indeed, the page for the Dean Smith that manages Aston Villa F.C. in the Premier League has received more hits in 9 of the past 12 months (including the last 8 in a row). Per WP:DETERMINEPRIMARY, This is one the main criteria to be considered when determining whether one page or another should be regarded as the 'primary' page. Searching for 'Dean Smith' through the modified Google Search string also returns an overwhelming number of results concerning the Aston Villa manager. I think it is fairly clear that there is, at the moment, WP:NOPRIMARY topic, and that this page should be disambiguated accordingly.
I have linked to this discussion on the talk page for the other Dean Smith mentioned, and in Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Basketball. Domeditrix ( talk) 14:12, 18 December 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: No consensus to move. Pageviews are not sufficient to determine a lack of primacy, so clearly the only primary topic criteria the basketball coach has is long-term significance. However, no argument that he doesn't have enough "long-term educational significance" managed to win a consensus. It is evident that there is no consensus here that he does, either. (As an aside, these cross-oceanic debates on significance can be very heated at times. Kudos to everyone here for being highly civil.) ( non-admin closure) Red Slash 22:29, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
– As far as I can tell, at this point in time, it is difficult to make a strong case that this page, the Dean Smith of basketball, ought to be considered the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. While WP:DETERMINEPRIMARY doesn't set out a strict test, it does indicate some important data that ought to be considered. One of these is page hits. The page for the Dean Smith that manages Aston Villa F.C. in the Premier League has consistently received more hits [3] over the past three years. Another data point worthy of consideration is whether an internet search turns up an more results relating to one potential topic. Searching for 'Dean Smith' through the modified Google Search string results in both topics coming up, with no clear winner, indicating that there is WP:NOPRIMARY. The proper course of action when there is no primary topic is to disambiguate, and allow the disambiguation page to claim the 'main' title. Following what is set out in WP:NCSP#Basketball, this article would then be moved to 'Dean Smith (basketball)'.
Remember, per WP:NWFCTM, our goal is not to astonish readers, nor is it to put to the fore the article that we think is more worthy. Nobody doubts that Dean Smith is a legend of basketball, but it's increasingly clear that many readers are not looking for this article when they search for 'Dean Smith'. Domeditrix ( talk) 16:02, 4 March 2021 (UTC)
... with respect to long-term significance if it has substantially greater enduring notability and educational value than any other topic associated with that term.The only entry on Brittanica is for the basketball coach. A Google Book search only shows predominantly hits for the basketball coach, not the football coach. The basketball coach has been dead since 2015, yet still maintains ~600 views/day. — Bagumba ( talk) 12:49, 9 March 2021 (UTC)
As far as books ...what are they good for, right? Haha.— Bagumba ( talk) 17:41, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
...a man whose career began in the 60s and ended in the 90s, than for a man whose career is still ongoingshows the WP:RECENTISM at play in this nomination. – Muboshgu ( talk) 18:00, 10 March 2021 (UTC)
The result of the move request was:
– Between this and the current Leicester City interim coach, the pageview analysis, https://pageviews.wmcloud.org/?project=en.wikipedia.org&platform=all-access&agent=user&redirects=0&start=2015-07&end=2023-04&pages=Dean_Smith%7CDean_Smith_(footballer,_born_1971)%7CDean_Smith_(footballer,_born_1958)%7CDean_Smith_(pilot)%7CDean_Smith_(Australian_politician)%7CDean_Smith_(sprinter)%7CDean_Smith_(actor)%7CDean_Smith_(racing_driver) , shows there is less that 100,000 views between both the basketball and the interim coach so I don't see a standout primary topic among the Dean Smiths on Wikipedia. Iggy ( Swan) ( Contribs) 11:36, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
The only entry on Brittanica is for the basketball coach. A Google Book search only shows predominantly hits for the basketball coach, not the football coach. The basketball coach has been dead since 2015, yet still maintains ~600 views/day, and a bit more views than the footballer.— Bagumba ( talk) 17:03, 10 May 2023 (UTC)... with respect to long-term significance if it has substantially greater enduring notability and educational value than any other topic associated with that term.
...a number of users hitting the Dean Smith basketball coach page will actually be looking for the football manager...: The data does not support that theory. Wikinav shows that Dean Smith was not among the top 10 incoming sources for Dean Smith (footballer, born 1971), meaning that there was at most 147 clicks there from "Dean Smith" in the last recorded month—less than 5 views per day. [11]— Bagumba ( talk) 16:48, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
Wikipedia does not predict the future. Now is not the time to move the article. Stevie fae Scotland ( talk) 21:04, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
those who made the game[12] and is still the most viewed Dean Smith despite having not coached for several decades and been dead for several years. Alvaldi ( talk) 10:20, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
I suspect a large percentage of the basketball coach's views are people looking for the football guy and he still is not getting a dominant percentage of the views: The actual data says that in April, there were 21.2K views of Dean Smith, the basketball coach, of which 654 then clicked out to the footballer's page, or ~3%, not a "large percentage".— Bagumba ( talk) 09:48, 14 May 2023 (UTC)