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I'm citing Pennock fairly extensively on the views of DA-Creationists. One problem that I'm running up against is that he seems to treat them as more-or-less synonymous with OECs generally (although he doesn't appear to come right out and state this), and refers to explicitly DAy-Age arguments as OEC arguments. Are there any forms of OEC still with a following other than DA? If so, I'll have to be careful which of the arguments Pennock describes that I use in this article. Hrafn Talk Stalk 03:48, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
should be lower case C
Okay, I tried to add the this Template:unbalanced to the article, but it got reverted so I'm here going to explain my reasoning. Basically, the article needs a criticism section. It only contains the view of those that believe in Day-Age creationism, and doesn't mention the views of those who disagree with it. Those that do, can be divided into two categories: fundamental theists who believe that the word day means the literal meaning of the word day i.e. 24 hours, OR non-theists who believe in a less religious view i.e. it wasn't God's doing or whatever, or (perhaps?) criticizing it as some kind of an attempt at hanging onto beliefs they would see as long disproved. I therefore feel until such a section can be created, the template would be adequate to show that it isn't neutral. Deamon138 ( talk) 06:43, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Hrafn Talk Stalk 07:01, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Yeah YECs were what I meant for the first group. Still, there must be a group that think that the Day-Age creationism doesn't go far enough, and that believers in it may as well just accept science full stop and reject the Bible, no? Of course, criticisms of OEC should go in that article, but surely those that disagree with it would disagree also on particular aspects of it, of which this article is one? A small criticism section would be adequate, so that it's at least known that people disagree with this idea. Deamon138 ( talk) 07:08, 27 June 2008 (UTC) Plus the OEC article doesn't mention the second type of criticism anyway, only the criticism that it rejects the Bible's infallibility, which is done by thise in your point one (YECs). Deamon138 ( talk) 07:10, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
I ran into an explication of Day-Age creationism a number of years ago that may be significant enough to merit inclusion here. It's the argument of Gerald Schroeder that measuring days from the point of quark confinement yields approximately 15 billion years, each day-age roughly corresponding to the Genesis account. Thoughts as to whether it should be included? Gabrielthursday ( talk) 20:02, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Schroeder's reasonably prominent (at least from memory of his name turning up in similar discussions before -- his article doesn't provide cites for an association with creationism -- or for anything else much actually). We would however need WP:RSs for both the argument and placing it/Schroeder within the boundaries of DAC. Hrafn Talk Stalk 04:56, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
The first sentence of this article states: 'Day-Age creationism, a type of Old Earth creationism, is an effort to reconcile the literal Genesis account of Creation with modern scientific theories on the age of the Universe, the Earth, life, and humans.'
Do we have any proof for this, because as we look through Christian history, we have seen many debate the age of the earth BEFORE any "Modern" theories such as evolution have come to light. E.g. Augustine, and many others —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kronix ( talk • contribs) 00:28, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
I have some question's regarding this edit. First of all, I assume that the quoted source (Hinshaw) only supports the 13.7 billion figure, right? Hinshaw doesn't mention Isaac? In that case, could someone name (a) the source saying that Isaac made this calculation and (b) the source saying that Isaac's calculation is relevant to the topic of Day-Age creationism? Gabbe ( talk) 17:38, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
A sentence reads:
The day-age theory tries to reconcile these views by believing that the creation "days" were not ordinary 24-hour days, but actually lasted for long periods of time—or as the theory's name implies: the "days" each lasted an age. According to this view, the sequence and duration of the creation "days" is representative or symbolic of the sequence and duration of events that scientists theorize to have happened.
I can see a few problems with this sentence:
I would suggest "that scientists have discovered", "which science discovered" or "which were evaluated scientifically". I am not sure what to suggest for "day-age theory", perhaps that "day-age doctrine" would not be adequate. Perhaps that interpretation or hypothesis would. Possibly that we could simply use:
Day-age creationism attempts to reconcile these views by believing that the creation "days" were not ordinary 24-hour days, but actually lasted for long periods of time (as day-age implies, the "days" each lasted an age). According to this view, the sequence and duration of the creation "days" is representative or symbolic of the sequence and duration of events which were evaluated scientifically.
76.10.128.192 ( talk) 19:44, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
I've not taken the liberty to revert the recent 15.219.233.70 edit but there seems to be a few issues: might be original research if not referencing to a text demonstrating the same conclusion (references are to verses only), and is slightly unclear about the part where the day is taken from the bible. 76.10.128.192 ( talk) 15:16, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
There is a warning at the top of the talk page that sanctions might be imposed on editors of this article, because the article is related to pseudoscience. However, the article states that the day-age interpretation is also popular among some theistic evolutionists, who accept the scientific consensus on evolution. Therefore, I don't think it would be WP:NPOV to label this article as such. It's fair to label YEC, Intelligent Design, and to a certain extent the other forms of OEC as such, because they reject the scientific consensus on how evolution works, but I think this is more a literary interpretation of the Bible rather than a pseudoscientific thinking, as both people who accept and reject the scientific consensus on evolution believe in this interpretation. (Note: I personally believe in theistic evolution, and I fully accept the scientific consensus on evolution, the age of the earth, etc. The article on theistic evolution is not labelled as pseudoscience.) Félix An ( talk) 16:36, 4 January 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Day-age creationism article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I'm citing Pennock fairly extensively on the views of DA-Creationists. One problem that I'm running up against is that he seems to treat them as more-or-less synonymous with OECs generally (although he doesn't appear to come right out and state this), and refers to explicitly DAy-Age arguments as OEC arguments. Are there any forms of OEC still with a following other than DA? If so, I'll have to be careful which of the arguments Pennock describes that I use in this article. Hrafn Talk Stalk 03:48, 3 March 2008 (UTC)
should be lower case C
Okay, I tried to add the this Template:unbalanced to the article, but it got reverted so I'm here going to explain my reasoning. Basically, the article needs a criticism section. It only contains the view of those that believe in Day-Age creationism, and doesn't mention the views of those who disagree with it. Those that do, can be divided into two categories: fundamental theists who believe that the word day means the literal meaning of the word day i.e. 24 hours, OR non-theists who believe in a less religious view i.e. it wasn't God's doing or whatever, or (perhaps?) criticizing it as some kind of an attempt at hanging onto beliefs they would see as long disproved. I therefore feel until such a section can be created, the template would be adequate to show that it isn't neutral. Deamon138 ( talk) 06:43, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Hrafn Talk Stalk 07:01, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
Yeah YECs were what I meant for the first group. Still, there must be a group that think that the Day-Age creationism doesn't go far enough, and that believers in it may as well just accept science full stop and reject the Bible, no? Of course, criticisms of OEC should go in that article, but surely those that disagree with it would disagree also on particular aspects of it, of which this article is one? A small criticism section would be adequate, so that it's at least known that people disagree with this idea. Deamon138 ( talk) 07:08, 27 June 2008 (UTC) Plus the OEC article doesn't mention the second type of criticism anyway, only the criticism that it rejects the Bible's infallibility, which is done by thise in your point one (YECs). Deamon138 ( talk) 07:10, 27 June 2008 (UTC)
I ran into an explication of Day-Age creationism a number of years ago that may be significant enough to merit inclusion here. It's the argument of Gerald Schroeder that measuring days from the point of quark confinement yields approximately 15 billion years, each day-age roughly corresponding to the Genesis account. Thoughts as to whether it should be included? Gabrielthursday ( talk) 20:02, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
Schroeder's reasonably prominent (at least from memory of his name turning up in similar discussions before -- his article doesn't provide cites for an association with creationism -- or for anything else much actually). We would however need WP:RSs for both the argument and placing it/Schroeder within the boundaries of DAC. Hrafn Talk Stalk 04:56, 4 July 2008 (UTC)
The first sentence of this article states: 'Day-Age creationism, a type of Old Earth creationism, is an effort to reconcile the literal Genesis account of Creation with modern scientific theories on the age of the Universe, the Earth, life, and humans.'
Do we have any proof for this, because as we look through Christian history, we have seen many debate the age of the earth BEFORE any "Modern" theories such as evolution have come to light. E.g. Augustine, and many others —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kronix ( talk • contribs) 00:28, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
I have some question's regarding this edit. First of all, I assume that the quoted source (Hinshaw) only supports the 13.7 billion figure, right? Hinshaw doesn't mention Isaac? In that case, could someone name (a) the source saying that Isaac made this calculation and (b) the source saying that Isaac's calculation is relevant to the topic of Day-Age creationism? Gabbe ( talk) 17:38, 16 November 2009 (UTC)
A sentence reads:
The day-age theory tries to reconcile these views by believing that the creation "days" were not ordinary 24-hour days, but actually lasted for long periods of time—or as the theory's name implies: the "days" each lasted an age. According to this view, the sequence and duration of the creation "days" is representative or symbolic of the sequence and duration of events that scientists theorize to have happened.
I can see a few problems with this sentence:
I would suggest "that scientists have discovered", "which science discovered" or "which were evaluated scientifically". I am not sure what to suggest for "day-age theory", perhaps that "day-age doctrine" would not be adequate. Perhaps that interpretation or hypothesis would. Possibly that we could simply use:
Day-age creationism attempts to reconcile these views by believing that the creation "days" were not ordinary 24-hour days, but actually lasted for long periods of time (as day-age implies, the "days" each lasted an age). According to this view, the sequence and duration of the creation "days" is representative or symbolic of the sequence and duration of events which were evaluated scientifically.
76.10.128.192 ( talk) 19:44, 4 March 2014 (UTC)
I've not taken the liberty to revert the recent 15.219.233.70 edit but there seems to be a few issues: might be original research if not referencing to a text demonstrating the same conclusion (references are to verses only), and is slightly unclear about the part where the day is taken from the bible. 76.10.128.192 ( talk) 15:16, 25 March 2014 (UTC)
There is a warning at the top of the talk page that sanctions might be imposed on editors of this article, because the article is related to pseudoscience. However, the article states that the day-age interpretation is also popular among some theistic evolutionists, who accept the scientific consensus on evolution. Therefore, I don't think it would be WP:NPOV to label this article as such. It's fair to label YEC, Intelligent Design, and to a certain extent the other forms of OEC as such, because they reject the scientific consensus on how evolution works, but I think this is more a literary interpretation of the Bible rather than a pseudoscientific thinking, as both people who accept and reject the scientific consensus on evolution believe in this interpretation. (Note: I personally believe in theistic evolution, and I fully accept the scientific consensus on evolution, the age of the earth, etc. The article on theistic evolution is not labelled as pseudoscience.) Félix An ( talk) 16:36, 4 January 2021 (UTC)