This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Dawson massacre article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | On 2 July 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to Dawson expedition. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
If the Texans (or Texians) killed in the battle were combatants, can the event be construed as a "massacre"? "A massacre shall be considered the execution of five or more people, in the same place, as part of the same operation and whose victims were in an indefensible state." (See Massacre) - Kguirnela 03:53, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
"Massacre" is how it's always been known and refers to the killing of several of Dawson's men after they tried to surrender. The actual casualty figures reflect this; 36 killed with only 18 survivors, not all of them wounded, is definitely not a normal combat figure. In a genuine battle the wounded will typically outnumber the dead by at least 2 to 1. In any case, Wikipedia shouldn't be renaming historical events unless there is unusually compelling reason to depart from the standard phrase. I don't think that exists here. "Expedition," for that matter, strikes me as misleading; this was not an incursion into foreign territory like the Mier Expedition or Pershing's 1916 march into Mexico. This was just a company defending its own territory that got caught by itself during a battle. 69.227.126.47 16:46, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Per WP:COMMONNAME. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Vpab15 ( talk) 14:53, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
Dawson massacre → Dawson expedition – Per WP:NPOV; massacre is a contentious label that should generally be avoided unless it is the clear common name in reliable English language sources and that isn't the case here per ngrams. It also isn't a useful descriptive title, as it isn't likely to align to any of the various definitions of massacre; while the American commander did attempt to surrender at one point, in the fog of war both sides continued to fight. BilledMammal ( talk) 05:33, 2 July 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Dawson massacre article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | On 2 July 2022, it was proposed that this article be moved to Dawson expedition. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
If the Texans (or Texians) killed in the battle were combatants, can the event be construed as a "massacre"? "A massacre shall be considered the execution of five or more people, in the same place, as part of the same operation and whose victims were in an indefensible state." (See Massacre) - Kguirnela 03:53, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
"Massacre" is how it's always been known and refers to the killing of several of Dawson's men after they tried to surrender. The actual casualty figures reflect this; 36 killed with only 18 survivors, not all of them wounded, is definitely not a normal combat figure. In a genuine battle the wounded will typically outnumber the dead by at least 2 to 1. In any case, Wikipedia shouldn't be renaming historical events unless there is unusually compelling reason to depart from the standard phrase. I don't think that exists here. "Expedition," for that matter, strikes me as misleading; this was not an incursion into foreign territory like the Mier Expedition or Pershing's 1916 march into Mexico. This was just a company defending its own territory that got caught by itself during a battle. 69.227.126.47 16:46, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Per WP:COMMONNAME. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Vpab15 ( talk) 14:53, 10 July 2022 (UTC)
Dawson massacre → Dawson expedition – Per WP:NPOV; massacre is a contentious label that should generally be avoided unless it is the clear common name in reliable English language sources and that isn't the case here per ngrams. It also isn't a useful descriptive title, as it isn't likely to align to any of the various definitions of massacre; while the American commander did attempt to surrender at one point, in the fog of war both sides continued to fight. BilledMammal ( talk) 05:33, 2 July 2022 (UTC)