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@ 2A1ZA: Thank you for creating this article. I saw that you reverted my removal of NPU from the affiliated organization in Iraq. I am still very sure that NPU is not Dawronoye-affiliated in any way. I read the blog post that you linked in the comment, but I am not sure what in the text you are refering to? The NPU was established by ADM; in what way would that mean Dawronoye-affiliated? Note that the Gozarto Protection Force (or Sootoro) are sometimes using the same logo as the NPU [1] [2]. They are in an open conflict with the Dawronoye- Sutoro. Shmayo ( talk) 13:34, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
Great. Note that the acronym NPF stands for "Nineveh Plain Forces", without "Protection". Shmayo ( talk) 16:29, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
Could someone who knows add the Syriac writing of the name of the Lemma? -- 2A1ZA ( talk) 18:32, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
I recently linked to the page " Kurdish nationalism" in the "See Also:" section here as something quite relevant to peruse alongside this page, but this was swiftly taken down by editor @abcdef (reason given: "unnecessary" - which was ironically very dismissive and unnecessary) and replaced by an anonymous user with "Assyrian nationalism" - I want to know why? This isn't a loose association; it is common knowledge that Dawronoye are existentially tied to the aspirations and will of Kurdish nationalist movements and have been since their inception. They coordinate and associate as such only with Assyrian groups who serve this agenda. This is why their network does not promote Assyrian groups or militias which are not tied to Kurdish groups - it is one central principle underpinning all of their operations. As cited in the article itself through no edit of mine: the NPF are the militia of the Beth Nahrain Democratic Party (BNDP) in Iraq, who are directly funded and promoted (by their own admission) by the Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP). The MFS are the militia of the Syriac Union Party (SUP), which are totally on board (by their own admission) with the Kurdish Democratic Union Party (PYD) political project in Northern Syria. Dawronoye most certainly do not work with the Gozarto Protection Forces (GPF - whom they have considerable conflict with, esp. in Qamishli) nor the Nineveh Protection Units (NPU - who they pretend don't exist, despite being the largest Assyrian force in Iraq by quite a distance) - both of which do not have such an association with Dawronoye, and both of which precede Dawronoye affiliated groups (which were conceived and supported as responses by Kurdish groups to weaken and dilute independent Assyrian groups - or at least groups independent of direct Kurdish influence and affiliation). The very concept of nationalism gives primacy to ones nation and its well-being (albeit to often catastrophic effect), and given how deeply tied Dawronoye are to aims and ambitions of Kurdish nationalist groups, they (merely by definition and not even really by extensive argument) cannot be considered Assyrian nationalists. Please respond reasonably or I will add the association again until people can give me evidence to the contrary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheodorLewin ( talk • contribs) 17:22, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
All of the arguments above are personal analysis and SYNTH. According to this point of view, we should add "Arab nationalism" in "See also" section of Sootoro, just because their allegiance to Syrian gov. Additively, Mesopotamia National Council, a Dawronoye affiliated group, carried out its first attack against Kurdish nationalist KDP military compound in 1999 and this info directly contradicts with user "TheodorLewin"s claims. Dawronoye closely cooperated with PKK and People's Protection Units. Therefore, "PKK" or "People's Protection Units" would be more reasonable than "Kurdish nationalism" for the see also section. 89.33.246.107 ( talk) 19:05, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
Dawronoye is a movement from Assyrians, for Assyrians, with a dedicated Assyrian nationalist agenda. The fact that they cooperate with other ethnicities, rather than hating anyone else as it otherwise is a frequent custom in the region, does not alter the facts. -- 2A1ZA ( talk) 19:53, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
I have made repeated attempts to contribute information on this page but have been met with intense resistance, despite citing numerous verified journalists and official government accounts.
I have recently been told to "discuss and come to a consensus" before making edits, when that is preposterous objection - if you check the Talk page above, you will see my last comment from 13th February left unanswered by other contributors. It is now 19th February. Given that nobody has challenged me or my sources except abcdef this is a gross abuse of power by one individual over the information related to this group. I have made every attempt to engage in civil discourse with the other contributors and the editor but to no avail. There is little understanding of how complex this group is - in fact, there is stubborn resistance against any attempt to depict it. The information presented on this page as it is currently is very one-sided, and as such, I felt that there needed to be a more balanced view present which presents as much information as possible to fill in any blanks - again, with as much objectivity as possible. There seems to be the feeling that Assyrians cannot by definition be Kurdish nationalists, when anyone who knows these issues knows this is patently false. Franso Hariri was an Assyrian Kurdish Nationalist in action and in memory - as described in a remembrance post on the anniversary of his death: http://www.basnews.com/index.php/en/news/kurdistan/416149
I am a relatively new user to wikipedia, but this cabal like approach is terribly off-putting. TheodorLewin ( talk) 12:39, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
Dear TheodorLewin, please try to keep your edits in line with the topic of the article and also consider WP:DUE. It is fine to have criticism of Dawronoye by other Assyrian voices in the article, but such criticism should be seperately at the end of the article, not have undue length, and not get lost in general deliberations concerning broader agendas Kurdish parties might or might not have. I just made an edit on the criticism part along these lines, I suggest that you try to keep further edits of yours in line with the general Wikipedia criteria I mentioned. -- 2A1ZA ( talk) 20:51, 26 February 2018 (UTC)
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@ 2A1ZA: Thank you for creating this article. I saw that you reverted my removal of NPU from the affiliated organization in Iraq. I am still very sure that NPU is not Dawronoye-affiliated in any way. I read the blog post that you linked in the comment, but I am not sure what in the text you are refering to? The NPU was established by ADM; in what way would that mean Dawronoye-affiliated? Note that the Gozarto Protection Force (or Sootoro) are sometimes using the same logo as the NPU [1] [2]. They are in an open conflict with the Dawronoye- Sutoro. Shmayo ( talk) 13:34, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
Great. Note that the acronym NPF stands for "Nineveh Plain Forces", without "Protection". Shmayo ( talk) 16:29, 5 January 2017 (UTC)
Could someone who knows add the Syriac writing of the name of the Lemma? -- 2A1ZA ( talk) 18:32, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
I recently linked to the page " Kurdish nationalism" in the "See Also:" section here as something quite relevant to peruse alongside this page, but this was swiftly taken down by editor @abcdef (reason given: "unnecessary" - which was ironically very dismissive and unnecessary) and replaced by an anonymous user with "Assyrian nationalism" - I want to know why? This isn't a loose association; it is common knowledge that Dawronoye are existentially tied to the aspirations and will of Kurdish nationalist movements and have been since their inception. They coordinate and associate as such only with Assyrian groups who serve this agenda. This is why their network does not promote Assyrian groups or militias which are not tied to Kurdish groups - it is one central principle underpinning all of their operations. As cited in the article itself through no edit of mine: the NPF are the militia of the Beth Nahrain Democratic Party (BNDP) in Iraq, who are directly funded and promoted (by their own admission) by the Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP). The MFS are the militia of the Syriac Union Party (SUP), which are totally on board (by their own admission) with the Kurdish Democratic Union Party (PYD) political project in Northern Syria. Dawronoye most certainly do not work with the Gozarto Protection Forces (GPF - whom they have considerable conflict with, esp. in Qamishli) nor the Nineveh Protection Units (NPU - who they pretend don't exist, despite being the largest Assyrian force in Iraq by quite a distance) - both of which do not have such an association with Dawronoye, and both of which precede Dawronoye affiliated groups (which were conceived and supported as responses by Kurdish groups to weaken and dilute independent Assyrian groups - or at least groups independent of direct Kurdish influence and affiliation). The very concept of nationalism gives primacy to ones nation and its well-being (albeit to often catastrophic effect), and given how deeply tied Dawronoye are to aims and ambitions of Kurdish nationalist groups, they (merely by definition and not even really by extensive argument) cannot be considered Assyrian nationalists. Please respond reasonably or I will add the association again until people can give me evidence to the contrary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheodorLewin ( talk • contribs) 17:22, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
All of the arguments above are personal analysis and SYNTH. According to this point of view, we should add "Arab nationalism" in "See also" section of Sootoro, just because their allegiance to Syrian gov. Additively, Mesopotamia National Council, a Dawronoye affiliated group, carried out its first attack against Kurdish nationalist KDP military compound in 1999 and this info directly contradicts with user "TheodorLewin"s claims. Dawronoye closely cooperated with PKK and People's Protection Units. Therefore, "PKK" or "People's Protection Units" would be more reasonable than "Kurdish nationalism" for the see also section. 89.33.246.107 ( talk) 19:05, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
Dawronoye is a movement from Assyrians, for Assyrians, with a dedicated Assyrian nationalist agenda. The fact that they cooperate with other ethnicities, rather than hating anyone else as it otherwise is a frequent custom in the region, does not alter the facts. -- 2A1ZA ( talk) 19:53, 23 March 2017 (UTC)
I have made repeated attempts to contribute information on this page but have been met with intense resistance, despite citing numerous verified journalists and official government accounts.
I have recently been told to "discuss and come to a consensus" before making edits, when that is preposterous objection - if you check the Talk page above, you will see my last comment from 13th February left unanswered by other contributors. It is now 19th February. Given that nobody has challenged me or my sources except abcdef this is a gross abuse of power by one individual over the information related to this group. I have made every attempt to engage in civil discourse with the other contributors and the editor but to no avail. There is little understanding of how complex this group is - in fact, there is stubborn resistance against any attempt to depict it. The information presented on this page as it is currently is very one-sided, and as such, I felt that there needed to be a more balanced view present which presents as much information as possible to fill in any blanks - again, with as much objectivity as possible. There seems to be the feeling that Assyrians cannot by definition be Kurdish nationalists, when anyone who knows these issues knows this is patently false. Franso Hariri was an Assyrian Kurdish Nationalist in action and in memory - as described in a remembrance post on the anniversary of his death: http://www.basnews.com/index.php/en/news/kurdistan/416149
I am a relatively new user to wikipedia, but this cabal like approach is terribly off-putting. TheodorLewin ( talk) 12:39, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
Dear TheodorLewin, please try to keep your edits in line with the topic of the article and also consider WP:DUE. It is fine to have criticism of Dawronoye by other Assyrian voices in the article, but such criticism should be seperately at the end of the article, not have undue length, and not get lost in general deliberations concerning broader agendas Kurdish parties might or might not have. I just made an edit on the criticism part along these lines, I suggest that you try to keep further edits of yours in line with the general Wikipedia criteria I mentioned. -- 2A1ZA ( talk) 20:51, 26 February 2018 (UTC)