A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with
the layout style guideline:
B.
Reliable sources are
cited inline. All content that
could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):
Add years in brackets in subsections to make it act as a timeline
No reference in article to validate birth name being "David Helfman"
Specify full birth date; city of birth not necessary
"American" does not need to be wiki-linked per
WP:OVERLINK
He has written a number of well-known commercial jingles, such as AT&T's "Reach out and touch someone",[1]... – Reference not needed in lead; info should be in article
...and been recognized multiple times by the Clio Awards. – Reword phrase
In 1981, he received a Clio for composing the music to Pepsi's "Catch that Pepsi spirit".[2] – Reference not needed in lead if info is in article
...with many new artists such as the early Blue Öyster Cult. – Use of "early" may confuse readers; reword phrase
...skit on Saturday Night Live.[3] – Reference not needed in lead
In June 2011, Lucas was inducted into Buffalo's Music Hall of Fame.[4] – Source not necessary in lead
He attended Bennett High School in Buffalo, where he sang in the choir,[6] and then Miami Beach Senior High School, graduating in 1955.[7] – Specify year he left first high school for next one
(followup) I contacted the subject directly to ask about the high school information, and he provided the years in an email (attended one high school from 1950–1951, then transferred to the other school). I have added the information to the article, though it is of course unverifiable via published sources. Personally, I could go either way on this, per
WP:AUTO, since I see schooling information as the kind of thing that's usually fairly innocuous, and okay to include simply on the subject's say-so. But if other editors disagree, any unsourced information can of course be removed. --
Elonka15:16, 13 August 2011 (UTC)reply
At the age of 19... – Change "19" to "nineteen"
...choosing artists such as the young Paul Anka, Frankie Avalon, Sam Cooke, and The Everly Brothers, and encouraging local DJs to play their music. – No source
He continued with record promotion until he was drafted into the United States Army, after which he moved to Miami Beach, where he was a social director and performer at the Attache Hotel. – No source
He made ends meet by selling vacuum cleaners during the day, and attending night school to learn about mutual funds. – No source
...and joined him for a world tour, after which Lucas moved to Los Angeles, where he worked as a songwriter and producer. – No source
In Las Vegas, he sang at the Sahara Hotel, where he was noticed by popular singer Doris Day, who was impressed, and signed Lucas to her record label, Arwin Records. – No source
...who in 1966 was killed in an auto accident. – "...who, in 1966, was killed in an auto accident."
...such as for Macleans Toothpaste... – Awkward phrasing
...which led to an offer to write a song for National Airlines. – No source
Second paragraph has many consecutive sentences beginning with "In this year"; edit this prose
Earlier, while producing for a group called Think Dog, Lucas had met Tom McFaul, the group's lead singer, pianist, and composer. – No source
McFaul became a staff composer at David Lucas Associates in 1971. – No source
Situated in an old spice warehouse, they called it the Warehouse Recording Studio, and it hosted such artists as Paul McCartney... – Fix awkward phrasing
...who used their studio to cut one of his albums.[9][20] – Specify album and year it was released in brackets
All of the above have been addressed, except for the last one, since the sources do not provide that information. --
Elonka02:45, 11 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Blue Öyster Cult
...for the new band... – Reword phrasing
"Reaper" became a huge hit, and is listed at #405 on the Rolling Stones list... – Add (') between "Rolling Stone" and "s"; use "number" instead of "#"
This choice became legendary when it was parodied by Christopher Walken in Saturday Night Live on April 8, 2000. – No source
In 1998, Lucas sold the Warehouse (now owned by Wyclef Jean) and moved back to Miami where he built a studio and is continuing to write songs and jingles. – No source
In 2010, Lucas co-wrote a song with his son Jason Lucas, which was sung by actress Kyra Sedgwick for The Miracle Project of Hollywood to benefit autism. – Specify song title
Lisa Lucas, a well-known and award-nominated child actress in the 1970s, played "Addie Mills" in several CBS holiday specials, and became a journalist as an adult. – No source
According to
WP:EMBED, "In an article, significant items should normally be mentioned naturally within the text rather than merely listed." Put this information into a prose.
References 10, 11, 12, 17, 28, 34, 35 – Not sure if these are a reliable sources
Agreed, but I don't believe that they are sourcing anything controversial, so they were included as primary sources. Are there any in particular that you have concerns about? --
Elonka02:45, 11 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Reference 27 – "Rolling Stone" is a magazine and should be italicized
After thoroughly reviewing this article, I have found many issues keeping this article from good article status. There are several minor prose issues, which can be fixed easily. However, there are several areas in this article where there are not sources to validate this information, violating
WP:VERIFY and
WP:NOR. To put an article on hold, I usually give the nominator seven days to fix these issues. With the magnitude of the issues I have found, I have decided in good faith and to the best of my knowledge to fail the article at this time because I do not believe all of these issues can be fixed within the general seven days. Once you have addressed all of these issues, you are welcome to renominate this article again.
Rp0211(talk2me)00:40, 11 August 2011 (UTC)reply
I very much appreciate the time that you took to review the article, and your detailed comments. I have addressed most of them, and have a very few questions on a couple items (listed above). Thanks again, --
Elonka02:45, 11 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Follow-up
Hey, Elonka. I want to apologize for any inconvenience in this nomination process that has occurred and want to let you know that I was acting in good faith when deciding the outcome of this nomination initially. I am now going to look over these issues again to make sure everything meets good article status.
Rp0211(talk2me)03:25, 11 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Issues as of 05:20, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
Infobox -> I could not find a source in this article to validate his date of birth.
References -> For Billboard articles, you can use
Google Books to find actual articles from the issues
Despite these issues, the article is a very good article that is close to reaching good article status. Good job on fixing the issues I presented earlier.
Rp0211(talk2me)05:20, 11 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Thank you again for your assistance with this. I have addressed the changes in the lead (nice finds!), and added a few URLs to Billboard articles. Regarding the birthday, this was something that was provided by the subject himself, when I contacted him for photos. Per
WP:AUTO, it is my understanding that individuals who are the subjects of articles are allowed to provide certain basic information such as about their birth, employment status, current residence, etc., as long as it is not unduly self-serving, nor contradicted by other published sources. I have found nothing that contradicts the date, so felt it was better to include it on the subject's say-so, rather than have an article with "year of birth unknown". In any case, it's moot now, as the subject sent a copy of his driver's license to the WMF, who have confirmed the DOB on the talkpage.
[1] So, there we go! :) --
Elonka16:59, 13 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Good find on verifying his date of birth. Since all of the issues have been addressed, I feel confident passing this article into good article status. Congratulations and keep up the good work!
Rp0211(talk2me)18:17, 13 August 2011 (UTC)reply
A. It contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with
the layout style guideline:
B.
Reliable sources are
cited inline. All content that
could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose):
Add years in brackets in subsections to make it act as a timeline
No reference in article to validate birth name being "David Helfman"
Specify full birth date; city of birth not necessary
"American" does not need to be wiki-linked per
WP:OVERLINK
He has written a number of well-known commercial jingles, such as AT&T's "Reach out and touch someone",[1]... – Reference not needed in lead; info should be in article
...and been recognized multiple times by the Clio Awards. – Reword phrase
In 1981, he received a Clio for composing the music to Pepsi's "Catch that Pepsi spirit".[2] – Reference not needed in lead if info is in article
...with many new artists such as the early Blue Öyster Cult. – Use of "early" may confuse readers; reword phrase
...skit on Saturday Night Live.[3] – Reference not needed in lead
In June 2011, Lucas was inducted into Buffalo's Music Hall of Fame.[4] – Source not necessary in lead
He attended Bennett High School in Buffalo, where he sang in the choir,[6] and then Miami Beach Senior High School, graduating in 1955.[7] – Specify year he left first high school for next one
(followup) I contacted the subject directly to ask about the high school information, and he provided the years in an email (attended one high school from 1950–1951, then transferred to the other school). I have added the information to the article, though it is of course unverifiable via published sources. Personally, I could go either way on this, per
WP:AUTO, since I see schooling information as the kind of thing that's usually fairly innocuous, and okay to include simply on the subject's say-so. But if other editors disagree, any unsourced information can of course be removed. --
Elonka15:16, 13 August 2011 (UTC)reply
At the age of 19... – Change "19" to "nineteen"
...choosing artists such as the young Paul Anka, Frankie Avalon, Sam Cooke, and The Everly Brothers, and encouraging local DJs to play their music. – No source
He continued with record promotion until he was drafted into the United States Army, after which he moved to Miami Beach, where he was a social director and performer at the Attache Hotel. – No source
He made ends meet by selling vacuum cleaners during the day, and attending night school to learn about mutual funds. – No source
...and joined him for a world tour, after which Lucas moved to Los Angeles, where he worked as a songwriter and producer. – No source
In Las Vegas, he sang at the Sahara Hotel, where he was noticed by popular singer Doris Day, who was impressed, and signed Lucas to her record label, Arwin Records. – No source
...who in 1966 was killed in an auto accident. – "...who, in 1966, was killed in an auto accident."
...such as for Macleans Toothpaste... – Awkward phrasing
...which led to an offer to write a song for National Airlines. – No source
Second paragraph has many consecutive sentences beginning with "In this year"; edit this prose
Earlier, while producing for a group called Think Dog, Lucas had met Tom McFaul, the group's lead singer, pianist, and composer. – No source
McFaul became a staff composer at David Lucas Associates in 1971. – No source
Situated in an old spice warehouse, they called it the Warehouse Recording Studio, and it hosted such artists as Paul McCartney... – Fix awkward phrasing
...who used their studio to cut one of his albums.[9][20] – Specify album and year it was released in brackets
All of the above have been addressed, except for the last one, since the sources do not provide that information. --
Elonka02:45, 11 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Blue Öyster Cult
...for the new band... – Reword phrasing
"Reaper" became a huge hit, and is listed at #405 on the Rolling Stones list... – Add (') between "Rolling Stone" and "s"; use "number" instead of "#"
This choice became legendary when it was parodied by Christopher Walken in Saturday Night Live on April 8, 2000. – No source
In 1998, Lucas sold the Warehouse (now owned by Wyclef Jean) and moved back to Miami where he built a studio and is continuing to write songs and jingles. – No source
In 2010, Lucas co-wrote a song with his son Jason Lucas, which was sung by actress Kyra Sedgwick for The Miracle Project of Hollywood to benefit autism. – Specify song title
Lisa Lucas, a well-known and award-nominated child actress in the 1970s, played "Addie Mills" in several CBS holiday specials, and became a journalist as an adult. – No source
According to
WP:EMBED, "In an article, significant items should normally be mentioned naturally within the text rather than merely listed." Put this information into a prose.
References 10, 11, 12, 17, 28, 34, 35 – Not sure if these are a reliable sources
Agreed, but I don't believe that they are sourcing anything controversial, so they were included as primary sources. Are there any in particular that you have concerns about? --
Elonka02:45, 11 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Reference 27 – "Rolling Stone" is a magazine and should be italicized
After thoroughly reviewing this article, I have found many issues keeping this article from good article status. There are several minor prose issues, which can be fixed easily. However, there are several areas in this article where there are not sources to validate this information, violating
WP:VERIFY and
WP:NOR. To put an article on hold, I usually give the nominator seven days to fix these issues. With the magnitude of the issues I have found, I have decided in good faith and to the best of my knowledge to fail the article at this time because I do not believe all of these issues can be fixed within the general seven days. Once you have addressed all of these issues, you are welcome to renominate this article again.
Rp0211(talk2me)00:40, 11 August 2011 (UTC)reply
I very much appreciate the time that you took to review the article, and your detailed comments. I have addressed most of them, and have a very few questions on a couple items (listed above). Thanks again, --
Elonka02:45, 11 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Follow-up
Hey, Elonka. I want to apologize for any inconvenience in this nomination process that has occurred and want to let you know that I was acting in good faith when deciding the outcome of this nomination initially. I am now going to look over these issues again to make sure everything meets good article status.
Rp0211(talk2me)03:25, 11 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Issues as of 05:20, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
Infobox -> I could not find a source in this article to validate his date of birth.
References -> For Billboard articles, you can use
Google Books to find actual articles from the issues
Despite these issues, the article is a very good article that is close to reaching good article status. Good job on fixing the issues I presented earlier.
Rp0211(talk2me)05:20, 11 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Thank you again for your assistance with this. I have addressed the changes in the lead (nice finds!), and added a few URLs to Billboard articles. Regarding the birthday, this was something that was provided by the subject himself, when I contacted him for photos. Per
WP:AUTO, it is my understanding that individuals who are the subjects of articles are allowed to provide certain basic information such as about their birth, employment status, current residence, etc., as long as it is not unduly self-serving, nor contradicted by other published sources. I have found nothing that contradicts the date, so felt it was better to include it on the subject's say-so, rather than have an article with "year of birth unknown". In any case, it's moot now, as the subject sent a copy of his driver's license to the WMF, who have confirmed the DOB on the talkpage.
[1] So, there we go! :) --
Elonka16:59, 13 August 2011 (UTC)reply
Good find on verifying his date of birth. Since all of the issues have been addressed, I feel confident passing this article into good article status. Congratulations and keep up the good work!
Rp0211(talk2me)18:17, 13 August 2011 (UTC)reply