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Archive 1 |
I took out the statistics and the links to the statistics. Figures like those are notoriously inaccurate and any statistics on this page should come from sources where we can verify their methodology such as links to academic papers. It is especially important in statistics like this to know how the various terms, like "rape" and "consent" are defined. I also think at that any statistics that are added should reflect the male experience as much as possible. [[User: 19:59, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
its not rape its surprise sex
This is an incredibly biased article as written. I am new to editing wikis and actually created an account to comment on this because I find it *so* offensive. In the US, Canada, and most of Europe, most people believe and the legal system recognizes that sex while either person is too intoxicated to give consent is rape, and that wearing revealing clothing does not imply consent. This article makes it sound like there actually is a debate on this and that the existence of date rape is actually controvesial. It's offensive and misogynist. At a minimum it should be flagged as controversial - I'm afraid I don't know how to do that. User: madscientistgirl 20:33 30 Nov 2007 EST
Also I'm really not sure why the bulk of the discussion is actually under "Social Issue." That's a large part of why this is biased. The subheading seems totally out of place. Date rape is not a "social issue" - it is a crime. This also makes it sound like there is ambiguity in the definition of rape. Rape is non-consensual sex or sex by a person unable to consent, perhaps because of age or intoxication. People can argue about facts - whether consent was given - but the definition is pretty straight forward.
madscientistgirl 21:57 30 Nov 07
Not all type of non-consensual sex is the same. Date rape most often lacks the psychological trauma that control rape causes and also the motives are different. A rapist who uses rape as a form of torture to break the will of his/her victim usually has very deep psychological issues as opposed to a sexually frustrated person who loses control over his physical drives and starts sexually abusing others. 62.47.231.88 ( talk) 17:42, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
Why is there only limited mention of GHB?
I took the following out for lack of citation:
55% of females & 75% of males admit to have been drinking or using drugs when acquaintance rape occurred. 90% of all campus rapes occur when alcohol has been used by either the assailant or the victim. As many as 70% of college students admit to having engaged in sexual acts primarily as a result of being under the influence of alcohol, when they wouldn’t have if they had been sober.
The "Effects of Rape on the victim" section doesn't have any particular relevance to date rape.
"Statistics" section. Updated statistics section to reflect what the cites showed. Sammichraptor ( talk) 18:05, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Note on reverted edit about six month acquaintances:
The point is that a surprisingly large many young people feel that force is justifiable in a sexual relationship, despite what the law says (not to mention Christian morality, or Jewish for that matter). I hope I won't let my objections to rape distort my editorial judgment, so I'll wait and see whether anyone replies before trying to add a statistic again. -- Uncle Ed ( talk) 04:54, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
More statistics (this time from a university ):
This is the one that was reverted:
Humphrey, 1991, in Acquaintance Rape: The Hidden Crime, ed. Andrea Parrot, John Wiley & Son ) [3]
Is that a good enough source? -- Uncle Ed ( talk) 05:29, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Isn't every substance physical? Is this wording right? -- 92.226.93.51 ( talk) 17:07, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
I'm happy to see that this page is improving. Maybe it can be merged with the drug facilitated sexual assault article, which is better written and more comprehensive? KRFred ( talk) 21:00, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
We currently have the Template:Violence against women shown on this page. Seeing as how men can also be raped on dates I would like to add the Template:Violence against men as well. Any opposition? Ranze ( talk) 21:28, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
I have been a victim of male on male as well as female on male date rape and would request it also posted by Dylan D.
Is there a larger topic or category of Sexual Predation that we can relate this to? Is there a sexual predation template? Monado ( talk) 21:12, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
why is there an infographic on wikipedia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.189.132.211 ( talk) 20:43, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
This article focuses almost entirely on "him -> her" violence. Could somebody expand and add with references and statistics involving "her -> him", "him -> him" and "her -> her" rape? Yes, they do occur, and no, they are no less significant than the standard view of date rape. Most modern societies paint the woman as the only "victim" in a rape situation, and ignore the inequality of doing so.
Men can be victims of heterosexual rape too, and same-sex non-consentual activity is still rape. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.247.123.38 ( talk) 22:30, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
Currently, the article says excatly the following about Ketamine: "Ketamine[5] is commonly known as: Black Hole, Bump, Cat Valium, Green, Jet, K, Kit Kat, Psychedelic heroin, Purple, Special K, Super Acid, Keller, Super C, etc."
However, it says nothing about whether or not Ketamine is a date rape drug, or about why the above statement is even there. Shouldn't that be the more relevant information? -- 92.226.93.51 ( talk) 17:15, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
I have a number of problems with this article, and so I added a number of tags to the article.
(1) It lacks a global perspective. The article only discusses the laws of the United States, and is written with a Anglosphere perspective. Laws and concepts regarding date rape vary around the world, and non-English-speaking countries also must deal with the problem of date rape.
(2) The article makes an unsubstaniated and false claim that "almost all victims of sexual assault are female. This is also true for victims of drug-facilitated sexual assault." Later the article contradicts that claim by discussing male date rape:"Male-on-male offenses: Such cases occur nearly exclusively in social or school settings. Often the crime reflects the perpetrator's conflicted feelings about private same-sex thought and desires."
(3) The Prevention section violates WP:NOTHOWTO. While I understand the desire to educate people on who to help prevent date rape, Wikipedia is not advice column. We should just stick with the facts.
(4) The Social issues section violates WP:POV. While I don't personally disagree with the content of the section, it is important not to include opinions in an encyclopedia article. The following is clearly an opinion: "Understanding date rape as a social issue is important due to the wide acceptance of rape myths." 71.125.71.56 ( talk) 22:47, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
The Acquaintance rape article was created on May 19, 2014; I have proposed that it be merged into the Date rape article, because, like the Date rape article shows, "acquaintance rape" is covered under the topic of "date rape." In other words, a person should not always take the term date rape too literally. The Acquaintance rape article is the type of WP:Content fork that Wikipedia advises against. The aforementioned acquaintance rape material, however, needs tweaking and cleanup for redundancy before being merged into this article. Flyer22 ( talk) 23:54, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
Reverted here and here. That I didn't get around to pursuing the above does not mean that I won't be pursuing it. I fully stand by my statements above. And so do many sources. Flyer22 Reborn ( talk) 02:33, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
Note before archive: Years later, I am not looking for a merge at this time. Flyer22 Reborn ( talk) 11:42, 9 November 2019 (UTC)
The last statement in the lead, "[i]t [date rape] is primarily but not solely a modern American phenomenon, whereas acquaintance rape has taken place throughout history, worldwide", needs clarification and sourcing (if the sourcing is in the body, I missed it). Being separately discussed may be primarily an American phenomenon, but I doubt date rape itself is, just as we could doubt acquaintance rape was separately discussed worldwide for millennia, although acquaintance rape itself probably was perpetuated "throughout history, worldwide" (as well as before, in prehistory). While dates may not happen in religiously strict cultures (and that's doubtful if we count secret dates and perhaps elopements in an environment of teen girls' and young women's resistance to the principle of arranged marriages), I had assumed (without checking) that dates are common enough in many nations that the near-absence of date rape outside of the U.S. would be startling (and wonderful). It would be interesting to see if the international edition/s of Cosmopolitan magazine discuss/es either dating or date or acquaintance rape; if it almost never discusses dating, I imagine it must be a very different magazine from the U.S. edition. Nick Levinson ( talk) 20:19, 15 June 2014 (UTC) (Corrected misspelling & syntax & clarified analysis: 20:32, 15 June 2014 (UTC))
The last paragraph in the "Prevention" section could be seen as an opinion. I don't want to delete work (particularly because it has a cited source), but it is written in a manner of opinion, which isn't the unbiased view the article should be geared towards. Morgan.root ( talk) 18:59, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
@ 80.189.113.46: @ Arjayay:
Reference: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss6104a1.htm
Alleged numbers: "A research conducted in 2013 indicated that sexual assault situations were greater among Hispanic (12.2%) and Black (11.5%) female high-school students than whites (9.1%)."
Reference says:
Dating Violence
During the 12 months before the survey, 9.4% of students nationwide had been hit, slapped, or physically hurt on purpose by their boyfriend or girlfriend (i.e., dating violence) (Table 19). Overall, the prevalence of dating violence was higher among black (12.2%) and Hispanic (11.4%) than white (7.6%) students; higher among black female (11.8%) and Hispanic female (10.6%) than white female (7.7%) students; and higher among black male (12.4%) and Hispanic male (12.1%) than white male (7.4%) students. Overall, the prevalence of dating violence was higher among 10th-grade (9.6%), 11th-grade (10.3%), and 12th-grade (10.3%) than 9th-grade (7.5%) students; higher among 10th-grade female (9.8%) and 12th-grade female (10.7%) than 9th-grade female (7.6%) students; and higher among 11th-grade male (11.2%) and 12th-grade male (10.0%) than 9th-grade male (7.4%) students. The prevalence of dating violence ranged from 6.5% to 16.1% across state surveys (median: 11.0%) and from 7.6% to 24.2% across large urban school district surveys (median: 11.6%) (Table 20). Among students nationwide, the prevalence of dating violence did not change significantly during 1999–2011 (8.8%–9.4%) or from 2009 (9.8%) to 2011 (9.4%).
Forced to Have Sexual Intercourse
Nationwide, 8.0% of students had ever been physically forced to have sexual intercourse when they did not want to (Table 19). Overall, the prevalence of having been forced to have sexual intercourse was higher among female (11.8%) than male (4.5%) students; higher among white female (12.0%), black female (11.0%), and Hispanic female (11.2%) than white male (3.2%), black male (6.1%), and Hispanic male (5.4%) students, respectively; and higher among 9th-grade female (8.2%), 10th-grade female (12.2%), 11th-grade female (12.7%), and 12th-grade female (14.5%) than 9th-grade male (3.5%), 10th-grade male (4.2%), 11th-grade male (5.2%), and 12th-grade male (4.7%) students, respectively. The prevalence of having been forced to have sexual intercourse was higher among black male (6.1%) and Hispanic male (5.4%) than white male (3.2%) students. Overall, the prevalence of having been forced to have sexual intercourse was higher among 10th-grade (8.0%), 11th-grade (8.8%), and 12th-grade (9.5%) than 9th-grade (5.8%) students; higher among 10th-grade female (12.2%), 11th-grade female (12.7%), and 12th-grade female (14.5%) than 9th-grade female (8.2%) students; and higher among 11th-grade male (5.2%) than 9th-grade male (3.5%) students. The prevalence of having been forced to have sexual intercourse ranged from 5.6% to 12.2% across state surveys (median: 8.4%) and from 6.5% to 12.6% across large urban school district surveys (median: 8.1%) (Table 20). Among students nationwide, the prevalence of having been forced to have sexual intercourse did not change significantly during 2001–2011 (7.7%–8.0%) or from 2009 (7.4%) to 2011 (8.0%).
Where are the numbers from the article? Am I blind? Had this been vandalized in the past? Someone modified the percentages and nobody noticed? ~ ToBeFree ( talk) 12:38, 28 March 2018 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I took out the statistics and the links to the statistics. Figures like those are notoriously inaccurate and any statistics on this page should come from sources where we can verify their methodology such as links to academic papers. It is especially important in statistics like this to know how the various terms, like "rape" and "consent" are defined. I also think at that any statistics that are added should reflect the male experience as much as possible. [[User: 19:59, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
its not rape its surprise sex
This is an incredibly biased article as written. I am new to editing wikis and actually created an account to comment on this because I find it *so* offensive. In the US, Canada, and most of Europe, most people believe and the legal system recognizes that sex while either person is too intoxicated to give consent is rape, and that wearing revealing clothing does not imply consent. This article makes it sound like there actually is a debate on this and that the existence of date rape is actually controvesial. It's offensive and misogynist. At a minimum it should be flagged as controversial - I'm afraid I don't know how to do that. User: madscientistgirl 20:33 30 Nov 2007 EST
Also I'm really not sure why the bulk of the discussion is actually under "Social Issue." That's a large part of why this is biased. The subheading seems totally out of place. Date rape is not a "social issue" - it is a crime. This also makes it sound like there is ambiguity in the definition of rape. Rape is non-consensual sex or sex by a person unable to consent, perhaps because of age or intoxication. People can argue about facts - whether consent was given - but the definition is pretty straight forward.
madscientistgirl 21:57 30 Nov 07
Not all type of non-consensual sex is the same. Date rape most often lacks the psychological trauma that control rape causes and also the motives are different. A rapist who uses rape as a form of torture to break the will of his/her victim usually has very deep psychological issues as opposed to a sexually frustrated person who loses control over his physical drives and starts sexually abusing others. 62.47.231.88 ( talk) 17:42, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
Why is there only limited mention of GHB?
I took the following out for lack of citation:
55% of females & 75% of males admit to have been drinking or using drugs when acquaintance rape occurred. 90% of all campus rapes occur when alcohol has been used by either the assailant or the victim. As many as 70% of college students admit to having engaged in sexual acts primarily as a result of being under the influence of alcohol, when they wouldn’t have if they had been sober.
The "Effects of Rape on the victim" section doesn't have any particular relevance to date rape.
"Statistics" section. Updated statistics section to reflect what the cites showed. Sammichraptor ( talk) 18:05, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Note on reverted edit about six month acquaintances:
The point is that a surprisingly large many young people feel that force is justifiable in a sexual relationship, despite what the law says (not to mention Christian morality, or Jewish for that matter). I hope I won't let my objections to rape distort my editorial judgment, so I'll wait and see whether anyone replies before trying to add a statistic again. -- Uncle Ed ( talk) 04:54, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
More statistics (this time from a university ):
This is the one that was reverted:
Humphrey, 1991, in Acquaintance Rape: The Hidden Crime, ed. Andrea Parrot, John Wiley & Son ) [3]
Is that a good enough source? -- Uncle Ed ( talk) 05:29, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Isn't every substance physical? Is this wording right? -- 92.226.93.51 ( talk) 17:07, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
I'm happy to see that this page is improving. Maybe it can be merged with the drug facilitated sexual assault article, which is better written and more comprehensive? KRFred ( talk) 21:00, 22 February 2013 (UTC)
We currently have the Template:Violence against women shown on this page. Seeing as how men can also be raped on dates I would like to add the Template:Violence against men as well. Any opposition? Ranze ( talk) 21:28, 14 May 2013 (UTC)
I have been a victim of male on male as well as female on male date rape and would request it also posted by Dylan D.
Is there a larger topic or category of Sexual Predation that we can relate this to? Is there a sexual predation template? Monado ( talk) 21:12, 22 July 2013 (UTC)
why is there an infographic on wikipedia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.189.132.211 ( talk) 20:43, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
This article focuses almost entirely on "him -> her" violence. Could somebody expand and add with references and statistics involving "her -> him", "him -> him" and "her -> her" rape? Yes, they do occur, and no, they are no less significant than the standard view of date rape. Most modern societies paint the woman as the only "victim" in a rape situation, and ignore the inequality of doing so.
Men can be victims of heterosexual rape too, and same-sex non-consentual activity is still rape. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.247.123.38 ( talk) 22:30, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
Currently, the article says excatly the following about Ketamine: "Ketamine[5] is commonly known as: Black Hole, Bump, Cat Valium, Green, Jet, K, Kit Kat, Psychedelic heroin, Purple, Special K, Super Acid, Keller, Super C, etc."
However, it says nothing about whether or not Ketamine is a date rape drug, or about why the above statement is even there. Shouldn't that be the more relevant information? -- 92.226.93.51 ( talk) 17:15, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
I have a number of problems with this article, and so I added a number of tags to the article.
(1) It lacks a global perspective. The article only discusses the laws of the United States, and is written with a Anglosphere perspective. Laws and concepts regarding date rape vary around the world, and non-English-speaking countries also must deal with the problem of date rape.
(2) The article makes an unsubstaniated and false claim that "almost all victims of sexual assault are female. This is also true for victims of drug-facilitated sexual assault." Later the article contradicts that claim by discussing male date rape:"Male-on-male offenses: Such cases occur nearly exclusively in social or school settings. Often the crime reflects the perpetrator's conflicted feelings about private same-sex thought and desires."
(3) The Prevention section violates WP:NOTHOWTO. While I understand the desire to educate people on who to help prevent date rape, Wikipedia is not advice column. We should just stick with the facts.
(4) The Social issues section violates WP:POV. While I don't personally disagree with the content of the section, it is important not to include opinions in an encyclopedia article. The following is clearly an opinion: "Understanding date rape as a social issue is important due to the wide acceptance of rape myths." 71.125.71.56 ( talk) 22:47, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
The Acquaintance rape article was created on May 19, 2014; I have proposed that it be merged into the Date rape article, because, like the Date rape article shows, "acquaintance rape" is covered under the topic of "date rape." In other words, a person should not always take the term date rape too literally. The Acquaintance rape article is the type of WP:Content fork that Wikipedia advises against. The aforementioned acquaintance rape material, however, needs tweaking and cleanup for redundancy before being merged into this article. Flyer22 ( talk) 23:54, 10 June 2014 (UTC)
Reverted here and here. That I didn't get around to pursuing the above does not mean that I won't be pursuing it. I fully stand by my statements above. And so do many sources. Flyer22 Reborn ( talk) 02:33, 12 August 2016 (UTC)
Note before archive: Years later, I am not looking for a merge at this time. Flyer22 Reborn ( talk) 11:42, 9 November 2019 (UTC)
The last statement in the lead, "[i]t [date rape] is primarily but not solely a modern American phenomenon, whereas acquaintance rape has taken place throughout history, worldwide", needs clarification and sourcing (if the sourcing is in the body, I missed it). Being separately discussed may be primarily an American phenomenon, but I doubt date rape itself is, just as we could doubt acquaintance rape was separately discussed worldwide for millennia, although acquaintance rape itself probably was perpetuated "throughout history, worldwide" (as well as before, in prehistory). While dates may not happen in religiously strict cultures (and that's doubtful if we count secret dates and perhaps elopements in an environment of teen girls' and young women's resistance to the principle of arranged marriages), I had assumed (without checking) that dates are common enough in many nations that the near-absence of date rape outside of the U.S. would be startling (and wonderful). It would be interesting to see if the international edition/s of Cosmopolitan magazine discuss/es either dating or date or acquaintance rape; if it almost never discusses dating, I imagine it must be a very different magazine from the U.S. edition. Nick Levinson ( talk) 20:19, 15 June 2014 (UTC) (Corrected misspelling & syntax & clarified analysis: 20:32, 15 June 2014 (UTC))
The last paragraph in the "Prevention" section could be seen as an opinion. I don't want to delete work (particularly because it has a cited source), but it is written in a manner of opinion, which isn't the unbiased view the article should be geared towards. Morgan.root ( talk) 18:59, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
@ 80.189.113.46: @ Arjayay:
Reference: https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss6104a1.htm
Alleged numbers: "A research conducted in 2013 indicated that sexual assault situations were greater among Hispanic (12.2%) and Black (11.5%) female high-school students than whites (9.1%)."
Reference says:
Dating Violence
During the 12 months before the survey, 9.4% of students nationwide had been hit, slapped, or physically hurt on purpose by their boyfriend or girlfriend (i.e., dating violence) (Table 19). Overall, the prevalence of dating violence was higher among black (12.2%) and Hispanic (11.4%) than white (7.6%) students; higher among black female (11.8%) and Hispanic female (10.6%) than white female (7.7%) students; and higher among black male (12.4%) and Hispanic male (12.1%) than white male (7.4%) students. Overall, the prevalence of dating violence was higher among 10th-grade (9.6%), 11th-grade (10.3%), and 12th-grade (10.3%) than 9th-grade (7.5%) students; higher among 10th-grade female (9.8%) and 12th-grade female (10.7%) than 9th-grade female (7.6%) students; and higher among 11th-grade male (11.2%) and 12th-grade male (10.0%) than 9th-grade male (7.4%) students. The prevalence of dating violence ranged from 6.5% to 16.1% across state surveys (median: 11.0%) and from 7.6% to 24.2% across large urban school district surveys (median: 11.6%) (Table 20). Among students nationwide, the prevalence of dating violence did not change significantly during 1999–2011 (8.8%–9.4%) or from 2009 (9.8%) to 2011 (9.4%).
Forced to Have Sexual Intercourse
Nationwide, 8.0% of students had ever been physically forced to have sexual intercourse when they did not want to (Table 19). Overall, the prevalence of having been forced to have sexual intercourse was higher among female (11.8%) than male (4.5%) students; higher among white female (12.0%), black female (11.0%), and Hispanic female (11.2%) than white male (3.2%), black male (6.1%), and Hispanic male (5.4%) students, respectively; and higher among 9th-grade female (8.2%), 10th-grade female (12.2%), 11th-grade female (12.7%), and 12th-grade female (14.5%) than 9th-grade male (3.5%), 10th-grade male (4.2%), 11th-grade male (5.2%), and 12th-grade male (4.7%) students, respectively. The prevalence of having been forced to have sexual intercourse was higher among black male (6.1%) and Hispanic male (5.4%) than white male (3.2%) students. Overall, the prevalence of having been forced to have sexual intercourse was higher among 10th-grade (8.0%), 11th-grade (8.8%), and 12th-grade (9.5%) than 9th-grade (5.8%) students; higher among 10th-grade female (12.2%), 11th-grade female (12.7%), and 12th-grade female (14.5%) than 9th-grade female (8.2%) students; and higher among 11th-grade male (5.2%) than 9th-grade male (3.5%) students. The prevalence of having been forced to have sexual intercourse ranged from 5.6% to 12.2% across state surveys (median: 8.4%) and from 6.5% to 12.6% across large urban school district surveys (median: 8.1%) (Table 20). Among students nationwide, the prevalence of having been forced to have sexual intercourse did not change significantly during 2001–2011 (7.7%–8.0%) or from 2009 (7.4%) to 2011 (8.0%).
Where are the numbers from the article? Am I blind? Had this been vandalized in the past? Someone modified the percentages and nobody noticed? ~ ToBeFree ( talk) 12:38, 28 March 2018 (UTC)