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As at Goetterdaemmerung, I am reverting to the previous template the infobox here, the institution of which in politeness might have been discussed with the Opera and/or Wagner projects and with the main contributing editors to the article. As that wasn't undertaken, it can be carried out now on the talk page, here, and I an notifying the projects concerned.-- Smerus ( talk) 19:44, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
Nice to see the guys from the sogennante Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Article Improvement coming out to hammer home their objectives. I won't re-revert, of course, but I still await any justification for the infobox. A reasoned discussion, as opposed to just preferring a picture, would be nice.-- Smerus ( talk) 07:46, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
The synopsis section of this article was a very lengthy verbatim quote (and unattributed) from Wagner's 'Mein Leben' in the Ellis translation, and thus not acceptable as content for a Wikipedia article. I have therefore deleted it and it therefore needs to be rewritten.-- Smerus ( talk) 19:55, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
The critical point in the infobox discussion seems to be how to determine a consensus on a given article. Lets take this as an example, look at the merits and flaws of the present side navbox (in the position of an infobox, and duplicating information from the footer navbox {{ Richard Wagner}}) and a suggested infobox ({{ infobox opera}}, made available by project opera in June). Let's collect opinions and views, and practise consensus: how would it be determined and by whom.
Richard Wagner |
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![]() |
Merits:
Flaws:
Das Liebesverbot | |
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opera in two acts by Richard Wagner | |
![]() The opera's composer, c. 1840 | |
Librettist | Richard Wagner |
Language | German |
Based on | Shakespeare's Measure for Measure |
Premiere | 29 March 1836 |
Merits:
Flaws:
Consensus:
With my known bias, "consensus" would lean heavily toward the infobox ;) -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 09:45, 8 August 2013 (UTC) Agreed. Montanabw (talk) 15:23, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
Against infobox, but in favour of improving navbox with illustration relevant to the opera.
Best, -- Smerus ( talk) 08:13, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
(ec, and I don't think of an arbcom case I didn't want, nor of "battle", I think of a different reader.) Thank you for your (supported) view, now let's get to this article. I have a reader in mind who comes across this article by chance and may not know that Richard Wagner is a composer. The side navbox, titled "Richard Wagner", suggests that this is an article about the pictured person, whereas the infobox would tell him that it is about something by a person. "My" reader reads many more other articles than opera, so sees many more infoboxes than side navboxes. The space is not very different for the two, and on my small monitor both fill white space next to the TOC. The infobox has to be redundant by definition, or it would be incorrect, but like on a title page of a book (also "redundant" to the content), the important name of the composer shows prominently right next to the title of the piece, whereas in the lead you have to go past work number, translation, genre and number of acts to reach it. I like to give "my" reader a feeling about place and time at a glance. The lead takes longer to get there. Can you tell me parameters that are questionable in this particular article? The side navbox adds nothing to the article that is not available in the footer navbox, so if the infobox adds only a tiny bit for a few readers, it's better. Greetings from pleading Abraham ;) -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 12:38, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
Can't you all just learn to get along? PumpkinSky talk 22:39, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
I suggest to install the infobox as suggested above, without the duplication of "genre", -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 22:12, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
Apologies Gerda, only just seen this. I don't think it very appropriate. Have removed it pending further discussion. I suggest that idf you are going to add these boxes as you have at other Wagner operas, you raise the issue first at WP:Opera and WP:Wagner.-- Smerus ( talk) 10:10, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Das Liebesverbot/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Comment(s) | Press [show] to view → |
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Middle of Start range. Suggestions for improvement:
-- GuillaumeTell 21:33, 6 September 2007 (UTC) Lower Start range (30 on the points scale). I agree with all the points made by GuillaumeTell above. Also:
-- Kleinzach 23:46, 6 September 2007 (UTC) Until recent work on Die Feen, this was the most informative of the articles on the early Wagner operas. For example, the editors did well to include a synopsis, which the other articles lacked. However, it is still obviously a work in progress. The following marking scheme gives an indication of where improvements can be made towards the next grade.
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Last edited at 19:40, 9 September 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 12:52, 29 April 2016 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
As at Goetterdaemmerung, I am reverting to the previous template the infobox here, the institution of which in politeness might have been discussed with the Opera and/or Wagner projects and with the main contributing editors to the article. As that wasn't undertaken, it can be carried out now on the talk page, here, and I an notifying the projects concerned.-- Smerus ( talk) 19:44, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
Nice to see the guys from the sogennante Wikipedia:WikiProject Quality Article Improvement coming out to hammer home their objectives. I won't re-revert, of course, but I still await any justification for the infobox. A reasoned discussion, as opposed to just preferring a picture, would be nice.-- Smerus ( talk) 07:46, 5 August 2013 (UTC)
The synopsis section of this article was a very lengthy verbatim quote (and unattributed) from Wagner's 'Mein Leben' in the Ellis translation, and thus not acceptable as content for a Wikipedia article. I have therefore deleted it and it therefore needs to be rewritten.-- Smerus ( talk) 19:55, 4 August 2013 (UTC)
The critical point in the infobox discussion seems to be how to determine a consensus on a given article. Lets take this as an example, look at the merits and flaws of the present side navbox (in the position of an infobox, and duplicating information from the footer navbox {{ Richard Wagner}}) and a suggested infobox ({{ infobox opera}}, made available by project opera in June). Let's collect opinions and views, and practise consensus: how would it be determined and by whom.
Richard Wagner |
---|
![]() |
Merits:
Flaws:
Das Liebesverbot | |
---|---|
opera in two acts by Richard Wagner | |
![]() The opera's composer, c. 1840 | |
Librettist | Richard Wagner |
Language | German |
Based on | Shakespeare's Measure for Measure |
Premiere | 29 March 1836 |
Merits:
Flaws:
Consensus:
With my known bias, "consensus" would lean heavily toward the infobox ;) -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 09:45, 8 August 2013 (UTC) Agreed. Montanabw (talk) 15:23, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
Against infobox, but in favour of improving navbox with illustration relevant to the opera.
Best, -- Smerus ( talk) 08:13, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
(ec, and I don't think of an arbcom case I didn't want, nor of "battle", I think of a different reader.) Thank you for your (supported) view, now let's get to this article. I have a reader in mind who comes across this article by chance and may not know that Richard Wagner is a composer. The side navbox, titled "Richard Wagner", suggests that this is an article about the pictured person, whereas the infobox would tell him that it is about something by a person. "My" reader reads many more other articles than opera, so sees many more infoboxes than side navboxes. The space is not very different for the two, and on my small monitor both fill white space next to the TOC. The infobox has to be redundant by definition, or it would be incorrect, but like on a title page of a book (also "redundant" to the content), the important name of the composer shows prominently right next to the title of the piece, whereas in the lead you have to go past work number, translation, genre and number of acts to reach it. I like to give "my" reader a feeling about place and time at a glance. The lead takes longer to get there. Can you tell me parameters that are questionable in this particular article? The side navbox adds nothing to the article that is not available in the footer navbox, so if the infobox adds only a tiny bit for a few readers, it's better. Greetings from pleading Abraham ;) -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 12:38, 26 August 2013 (UTC)
Can't you all just learn to get along? PumpkinSky talk 22:39, 27 August 2013 (UTC)
I suggest to install the infobox as suggested above, without the duplication of "genre", -- Gerda Arendt ( talk) 22:12, 16 July 2015 (UTC)
Apologies Gerda, only just seen this. I don't think it very appropriate. Have removed it pending further discussion. I suggest that idf you are going to add these boxes as you have at other Wagner operas, you raise the issue first at WP:Opera and WP:Wagner.-- Smerus ( talk) 10:10, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Das Liebesverbot/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Comment(s) | Press [show] to view → |
---|---|
Middle of Start range. Suggestions for improvement:
-- GuillaumeTell 21:33, 6 September 2007 (UTC) Lower Start range (30 on the points scale). I agree with all the points made by GuillaumeTell above. Also:
-- Kleinzach 23:46, 6 September 2007 (UTC) Until recent work on Die Feen, this was the most informative of the articles on the early Wagner operas. For example, the editors did well to include a synopsis, which the other articles lacked. However, it is still obviously a work in progress. The following marking scheme gives an indication of where improvements can be made towards the next grade.
|
Last edited at 19:40, 9 September 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 12:52, 29 April 2016 (UTC)