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Shouldn't this article be named Das Labyrinth, as the German Wikipedia has it ( de:Das Labyrinth)? -- Michael Bednarek ( talk) 10:07, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
S. g. Herr Bednarek,
der Artikel heißt in der deutschen Wikipedia hauptsächlich wegen des Gleichklangs von Goethes Werk "Das Labyrinth".
Die Editoren des Textbuches (Tutzing 1992, sie folgen den historischen Quellen) haben sich für die damals meistens verwendete Titelform entschieden, die zur Erkennbarkeit und wegen des Reklame-Effekts gleich anfangs klarmacht, worum es hier geht: leider ist das auch nicht ganz einheitlich in den historischen Quellen von Libretto und Musik durchgeführt:
A. Pyro später: T. Mollo: Der Zweyte Theil Der Zauberflöte
N. Simrock: Der Zauberflœte zweyter Theil
Libretto-Erstdruck (Wien 1798): Gesänge aus dem zweyten Theil der Zauberflöte
Der Historiker Leopold Sonnleither schreibt 1862 wiederum:
Der Zauberflöte zweiter Theil
Es ist aus verschiedenen Gründen also sinnvoll, das Werk im englischen Artikel über den anfangs mit Mozarts Werk identen Titel einzuführen. Alle relevanten Informationen kommen dann ja im Anschluss durchaus noch! Also möge man es so stehenlassen wie es hier steht, selbst wenn es im Titel abzuweichen scheint.
85.127.108.243 ( talk) 23:53, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
Hallo,
you told that you are of german origin, so I thought I should write in german.
Please put in
The Magic Flute
and you will see a lot of titles with that beginning!
I think you will agree: Schikaneder would prefer that!
That effect is not possible in german, because of the beginning with: Die/Der
Perhaps the main german title should be changed! That would be the best!
"Il dissoluto punito" or "Der bestrafte Wüstling" > Don Giovanni and the Henze-Opera are completely other cases: There is no imagination intended to a very famous Work to which it is the sequel!
Hope you will not change it !!!
But feel free to change the main-title in the german Wiki:
Der Zauberflöte zweyter Theil. Das Labyrinth.
and than the correct version
Der Zauberflöte zweyter Theil unter dem Titel Das Labyrinth oder der Kampf mit den Elementen.
When I put the first version in german WIKI:
http://de.wikipedia.org/?title=Das_Labyrinth&oldid=28833194
there was an existing article on the Goethe-Fragment: http://de.wikipedia.org/?title=Der_Zauberflöte_zweyter_Theil&oldid=17163680
Best regards,
85.127.108.243 ( talk) 11:34, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
The recent move of this article to The Magic Flute’s Second Part is unsupported by any evidence of its usage. The use of the typographic (curly) apostrophe is inconsistent with WP:APOSTROPHE and WP:TITLE. I again suggest that the title of this work should be Das Labyrinth; this is the title used in Grove which is the standard work of reference – see Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera#Article titles and Wikipedia:Naming conventions (operas). -- Michael Bednarek ( talk) 09:09, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
I do not consent with the changes made by Michael Bednarek. First of all I want to know: Why? Because of your personal taste? Or just because you are a man on mission? Undoing everything I do when illustrate operas - Carmen, Ariadne, L'Africaine, Salome, Die Soldaten and some others … in German WP as all as here. (You behave like the contrary of a "Schutzengel"! If you will continue to do so, I will list all your destructive acts and send them to the administrators). I kindly ask you to redo your undoing. -- Meister und Margarita ( talk) 07:38, 23 August 2014 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||
|
Shouldn't this article be named Das Labyrinth, as the German Wikipedia has it ( de:Das Labyrinth)? -- Michael Bednarek ( talk) 10:07, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
S. g. Herr Bednarek,
der Artikel heißt in der deutschen Wikipedia hauptsächlich wegen des Gleichklangs von Goethes Werk "Das Labyrinth".
Die Editoren des Textbuches (Tutzing 1992, sie folgen den historischen Quellen) haben sich für die damals meistens verwendete Titelform entschieden, die zur Erkennbarkeit und wegen des Reklame-Effekts gleich anfangs klarmacht, worum es hier geht: leider ist das auch nicht ganz einheitlich in den historischen Quellen von Libretto und Musik durchgeführt:
A. Pyro später: T. Mollo: Der Zweyte Theil Der Zauberflöte
N. Simrock: Der Zauberflœte zweyter Theil
Libretto-Erstdruck (Wien 1798): Gesänge aus dem zweyten Theil der Zauberflöte
Der Historiker Leopold Sonnleither schreibt 1862 wiederum:
Der Zauberflöte zweiter Theil
Es ist aus verschiedenen Gründen also sinnvoll, das Werk im englischen Artikel über den anfangs mit Mozarts Werk identen Titel einzuführen. Alle relevanten Informationen kommen dann ja im Anschluss durchaus noch! Also möge man es so stehenlassen wie es hier steht, selbst wenn es im Titel abzuweichen scheint.
85.127.108.243 ( talk) 23:53, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
Hallo,
you told that you are of german origin, so I thought I should write in german.
Please put in
The Magic Flute
and you will see a lot of titles with that beginning!
I think you will agree: Schikaneder would prefer that!
That effect is not possible in german, because of the beginning with: Die/Der
Perhaps the main german title should be changed! That would be the best!
"Il dissoluto punito" or "Der bestrafte Wüstling" > Don Giovanni and the Henze-Opera are completely other cases: There is no imagination intended to a very famous Work to which it is the sequel!
Hope you will not change it !!!
But feel free to change the main-title in the german Wiki:
Der Zauberflöte zweyter Theil. Das Labyrinth.
and than the correct version
Der Zauberflöte zweyter Theil unter dem Titel Das Labyrinth oder der Kampf mit den Elementen.
When I put the first version in german WIKI:
http://de.wikipedia.org/?title=Das_Labyrinth&oldid=28833194
there was an existing article on the Goethe-Fragment: http://de.wikipedia.org/?title=Der_Zauberflöte_zweyter_Theil&oldid=17163680
Best regards,
85.127.108.243 ( talk) 11:34, 12 July 2011 (UTC)
The recent move of this article to The Magic Flute’s Second Part is unsupported by any evidence of its usage. The use of the typographic (curly) apostrophe is inconsistent with WP:APOSTROPHE and WP:TITLE. I again suggest that the title of this work should be Das Labyrinth; this is the title used in Grove which is the standard work of reference – see Wikipedia:WikiProject Opera#Article titles and Wikipedia:Naming conventions (operas). -- Michael Bednarek ( talk) 09:09, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
I do not consent with the changes made by Michael Bednarek. First of all I want to know: Why? Because of your personal taste? Or just because you are a man on mission? Undoing everything I do when illustrate operas - Carmen, Ariadne, L'Africaine, Salome, Die Soldaten and some others … in German WP as all as here. (You behave like the contrary of a "Schutzengel"! If you will continue to do so, I will list all your destructive acts and send them to the administrators). I kindly ask you to redo your undoing. -- Meister und Margarita ( talk) 07:38, 23 August 2014 (UTC)