![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was originally started to simplify the Gary Webb article. As discussed on the Gary Webb talk page, I am therefore moving the miscellaneous quotes and claims about the book from the Gary Webb page to here. I will also move reviews of the book from the Gary Webb page to here as well. One of these reviews, by Glenn Garvin, has been controversial on the Webb page, as it is very negative. Despite this, it is a well-known rebuttal to the book by a notable author in a national magazine, and as a question of balance cannot be omitted or slighted. Note in particular that it is not appropriate to add your own opinion about Garvin's article or Garvin himself onto this page. If you know of responses to Garvin's article from a reliable source, feel free to cite them here. If you want to write about Garvin the person, unless it is relevant to this review and the content is strictly NPOV, please do so elsewhere. Rgr09 ( talk) 00:25, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
The section devoted to reviews of the book needs significant expansion. The book was widely reviewed, but the section does not come close to reflecting this. The little content that does appear here has some major problems. I will add notes here as I remove/add items. Rgr09 ( talk) 01:16, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Cleaned up lead, simplified intro; deleted unnecessary count of footnotes, deleted strange link to german amazon for the "Firecracker Alternative Book Award." Both of these awards are rather obscure, any comments on notability? Rgr09 ( talk) 07:53, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
I removed several external links which are not relevant to the book. For people interested in the Dark Alliance series, there is already a note at the top directing them to the Gary Webb article, no need to duplicate all this information here. Many of the remaining external links also look very familiar. I intend to check and delete if they appear in the Gary Webb article. If you think they should stay, please explain why here. Rgr09 ( talk) 08:11, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
The description of the book's content in the intro is still unclear, as is the synopsis. May try and fix then after I finish book. I will add at least one more review summary, Michael Massing in Los Angeles Times. This was a mixed review, like Corn's. The article originally characterized both Corn and Massing reviews as positive. This is simply not true, both had significant reservations about the book. As time permits, will try looking for positive review (perhaps Peter Dale Scott?) and at least one review in an academic journal. Rgr09 ( talk) 10:07, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
It turns out the remaining external links are about a recently declassified article from Studies in Intelligence, the CIA house journal. The article dates back to 1997, and while interesting, it is irrelevant to the book Dark Alliance, which was not published until 1998. I have therefore deleted the links. If you feel they are relevant to Dark Alliance, please explain here before you reinstate them.
These links would be useful in the Gary Webb article, in fact there is already a link to the article on the Gary Webb page, but it is extremely poorly integrated into the article. External links are not a shortcut for avoiding the work of fitting information into the article. Rgr09 ( talk) 14:48, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
Revised some awkward wording in the the synopsis. Changed the description of Oscar Danilo Blandon to the one given in the book. Still reading book, may revise further. Rgr09 ( talk) 03:41, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
The article originally gave the publication date of the first edition as November 1998. This is obviously wrong, since the book was reviewed in the Baltimore Sun in June 1998. The Amazon page for the first edition says June 1, 1998, but Amazon is not a reliable source for publication information. For the revised edition, the publisher's website says January 1998. In general, publisher websites are not always reliable for this sort of detail either. Rather than waste any more time on this, I have just deleted November, since I fail to see the notability of this. However, as the article notes, the first edition was certainly published before the report of the Justice Department investigation into Webb's claims was issued (the second volume of the CIA report was out, but the unclassified version wasn't issued until October). The revised edition was published after both of these reports were issued, and discusses some (but not all) of their findings. As a result, the revised edition is about 30 pages longer than the first edition. Rgr09 ( talk) 01:29, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
I'm not sure how the actual document referred to here ended up not getting a link but http://www.narconews.com/darkalliance/ it the whole thing. If there's some reason that the CIA managed to make Narco News an unreliable source, then I understand. Otherwise, it's ridiculous not to include the link to the actual work. I say this because, a few years back, I know the narconews link was there and today it's not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.212.12.111 ( talk) 17:07, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
The description of Glenn Garvin's review of Dark Alliance was recently deleted without any discussion here, with some sharply POV comments on James Adams's review added as well. The deleting editor commented that he "removed Garvin "review" of book due to its completely off-topic anti-communist ranting & fact that "review" barely touches on major revelations in book." As noted above the review is a well-known rebuttal of DA by a notable author in a national magazine. Garvin was a reporter for the Washington Times and Miami Herald on South American affairs for almost 20 years, including five years as the Herald's Managua bureau chief. He wrote directly on the subjects covered in DA, and Webb himself cites Garvin's book on the Contras at least half a dozen times, using it as a source for basic facts such as the the formation of the FDN. Garvin's article is a direct response to some of Webb's claims; it is by no means off-topic and can't be omitted just because Garvin doesn't agree with Webb.
Wikipedia articles on books regularly include both positive and negative reviews to inform users of the range of opinion on the book, and while one might not agree with Garvin's review, that is not a reason for removing it. If there is controversy over a book review, it is makes sense to describe this, subject to Wikipedia requirements for notability and sourcing. Putting your own opinions in, however, is POV editing that should not stay. Rgr09 ( talk) 16:13, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
The second paragraph of the article originally read
Webb's thesis is supported by the sworn testimony in a US courtroom of cocaine smuggler and Contra supporter Oscar Danilo Blandón and in interviews with Blandon's associate and fellow coke smuggler and Contra supporter Juan Norwin Meneses, as well as US Government documents acquired through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). He also took much from the earlier reporting on the Iran–Contra affair by Robert Parry, whose footsteps he followed in his investigation for the piece.
This paragraph seems to have no basis other than an editor's opinions, and is not an accurate summary of the book's sources. Only one article by Parry (with a shared by-line with Brian Barger) is cited. FOIA material is not extensively used. Testimony from Blandon and Webb's one interview with Meneses in January 1996 are also far from being the main sources for the book. Given these problems I've deleted the paragraph. Rgr09 ( talk) 20:02, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Dark Alliance. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 21:42, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
In the second paragraph under the Synopsis section, this Blandon person is mentioned by I guess is just a last name as
if they were ALREADY mentioned and the reader is supposed to already know who is being referred to, when Blandon was never mentioned before this.
71.184.253.237 ( talk) 05:58, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was originally started to simplify the Gary Webb article. As discussed on the Gary Webb talk page, I am therefore moving the miscellaneous quotes and claims about the book from the Gary Webb page to here. I will also move reviews of the book from the Gary Webb page to here as well. One of these reviews, by Glenn Garvin, has been controversial on the Webb page, as it is very negative. Despite this, it is a well-known rebuttal to the book by a notable author in a national magazine, and as a question of balance cannot be omitted or slighted. Note in particular that it is not appropriate to add your own opinion about Garvin's article or Garvin himself onto this page. If you know of responses to Garvin's article from a reliable source, feel free to cite them here. If you want to write about Garvin the person, unless it is relevant to this review and the content is strictly NPOV, please do so elsewhere. Rgr09 ( talk) 00:25, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
The section devoted to reviews of the book needs significant expansion. The book was widely reviewed, but the section does not come close to reflecting this. The little content that does appear here has some major problems. I will add notes here as I remove/add items. Rgr09 ( talk) 01:16, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
Cleaned up lead, simplified intro; deleted unnecessary count of footnotes, deleted strange link to german amazon for the "Firecracker Alternative Book Award." Both of these awards are rather obscure, any comments on notability? Rgr09 ( talk) 07:53, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
I removed several external links which are not relevant to the book. For people interested in the Dark Alliance series, there is already a note at the top directing them to the Gary Webb article, no need to duplicate all this information here. Many of the remaining external links also look very familiar. I intend to check and delete if they appear in the Gary Webb article. If you think they should stay, please explain why here. Rgr09 ( talk) 08:11, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
The description of the book's content in the intro is still unclear, as is the synopsis. May try and fix then after I finish book. I will add at least one more review summary, Michael Massing in Los Angeles Times. This was a mixed review, like Corn's. The article originally characterized both Corn and Massing reviews as positive. This is simply not true, both had significant reservations about the book. As time permits, will try looking for positive review (perhaps Peter Dale Scott?) and at least one review in an academic journal. Rgr09 ( talk) 10:07, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
It turns out the remaining external links are about a recently declassified article from Studies in Intelligence, the CIA house journal. The article dates back to 1997, and while interesting, it is irrelevant to the book Dark Alliance, which was not published until 1998. I have therefore deleted the links. If you feel they are relevant to Dark Alliance, please explain here before you reinstate them.
These links would be useful in the Gary Webb article, in fact there is already a link to the article on the Gary Webb page, but it is extremely poorly integrated into the article. External links are not a shortcut for avoiding the work of fitting information into the article. Rgr09 ( talk) 14:48, 1 February 2015 (UTC)
Revised some awkward wording in the the synopsis. Changed the description of Oscar Danilo Blandon to the one given in the book. Still reading book, may revise further. Rgr09 ( talk) 03:41, 6 February 2015 (UTC)
The article originally gave the publication date of the first edition as November 1998. This is obviously wrong, since the book was reviewed in the Baltimore Sun in June 1998. The Amazon page for the first edition says June 1, 1998, but Amazon is not a reliable source for publication information. For the revised edition, the publisher's website says January 1998. In general, publisher websites are not always reliable for this sort of detail either. Rather than waste any more time on this, I have just deleted November, since I fail to see the notability of this. However, as the article notes, the first edition was certainly published before the report of the Justice Department investigation into Webb's claims was issued (the second volume of the CIA report was out, but the unclassified version wasn't issued until October). The revised edition was published after both of these reports were issued, and discusses some (but not all) of their findings. As a result, the revised edition is about 30 pages longer than the first edition. Rgr09 ( talk) 01:29, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
I'm not sure how the actual document referred to here ended up not getting a link but http://www.narconews.com/darkalliance/ it the whole thing. If there's some reason that the CIA managed to make Narco News an unreliable source, then I understand. Otherwise, it's ridiculous not to include the link to the actual work. I say this because, a few years back, I know the narconews link was there and today it's not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 107.212.12.111 ( talk) 17:07, 17 October 2015 (UTC)
The description of Glenn Garvin's review of Dark Alliance was recently deleted without any discussion here, with some sharply POV comments on James Adams's review added as well. The deleting editor commented that he "removed Garvin "review" of book due to its completely off-topic anti-communist ranting & fact that "review" barely touches on major revelations in book." As noted above the review is a well-known rebuttal of DA by a notable author in a national magazine. Garvin was a reporter for the Washington Times and Miami Herald on South American affairs for almost 20 years, including five years as the Herald's Managua bureau chief. He wrote directly on the subjects covered in DA, and Webb himself cites Garvin's book on the Contras at least half a dozen times, using it as a source for basic facts such as the the formation of the FDN. Garvin's article is a direct response to some of Webb's claims; it is by no means off-topic and can't be omitted just because Garvin doesn't agree with Webb.
Wikipedia articles on books regularly include both positive and negative reviews to inform users of the range of opinion on the book, and while one might not agree with Garvin's review, that is not a reason for removing it. If there is controversy over a book review, it is makes sense to describe this, subject to Wikipedia requirements for notability and sourcing. Putting your own opinions in, however, is POV editing that should not stay. Rgr09 ( talk) 16:13, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
The second paragraph of the article originally read
Webb's thesis is supported by the sworn testimony in a US courtroom of cocaine smuggler and Contra supporter Oscar Danilo Blandón and in interviews with Blandon's associate and fellow coke smuggler and Contra supporter Juan Norwin Meneses, as well as US Government documents acquired through the Freedom of Information Act (FOIA). He also took much from the earlier reporting on the Iran–Contra affair by Robert Parry, whose footsteps he followed in his investigation for the piece.
This paragraph seems to have no basis other than an editor's opinions, and is not an accurate summary of the book's sources. Only one article by Parry (with a shared by-line with Brian Barger) is cited. FOIA material is not extensively used. Testimony from Blandon and Webb's one interview with Meneses in January 1996 are also far from being the main sources for the book. Given these problems I've deleted the paragraph. Rgr09 ( talk) 20:02, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Dark Alliance. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 21:42, 4 September 2017 (UTC)
In the second paragraph under the Synopsis section, this Blandon person is mentioned by I guess is just a last name as
if they were ALREADY mentioned and the reader is supposed to already know who is being referred to, when Blandon was never mentioned before this.
71.184.253.237 ( talk) 05:58, 25 September 2019 (UTC)