This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
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The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: Move. We have a unanimous consensus to replace "footballer" with "soccer" as the subject is American. The birth date will be retained, per consensus in the discussion and the existence of other soccer/football players of the same name.
Cúchullaint/
c11:58, 19 June 2015 (UTC)reply
Support per nom with "born" and all. Ambiguous disambiguation should not be used. It would not help readers identify the topic of the article, since they are all soccer players or footballers, depending on the reader's own dialect of English, and we should not expect all readers to determine that synonyms (soccer player vs footballer) do not mean what they mean in English, but have special Wikipedia meanings depending on the topic's place of birth. Synonyms are not disambiguatory, they are ambiguous, so this needs the birth year --
70.51.202.183 (
talk)
07:29, 7 June 2015 (UTC)reply
There are five association football players. Due to
MOS:TIES, we use North American or British English depending on a person's nationality. Americans don't use the term "footballer", so it would usually be inappropriate to see that term in the title of an American biography. Brits do use soccer, though not as
commonly, so we don't use it in British biographies. See
WP:NCSP for the official formulation. Will this confuse a reader on his or her first day reading about association football on Wikipedia? Yeah, probably. But it's an easy system to get used to, and we can certainly use hatnotes to ease things. --
BDD (
talk)
16:57, 12 June 2015 (UTC)reply
Yes, but this Danny Williams was born in Germany and has played his entire club career in Europe. (soccer, born 1989) is the most clear disambiguation.
Joeykai (
talk)
17:29, 12 June 2015 (UTC)reply
That would be an argument for calling him a footballer, if anything. But since he plays for the US senior team, he's an American for FIFA's purposes, as well as for ours. That could change if he became notable for another profession in Germany or something—see my comments at
Talk:João Mário (footballer, born January 1993)—but that's speculative. --
BDD (
talk)
18:17, 12 June 2015 (UTC)reply
TIES only guides which word to use as a disambiguator, it does not show that the choice of which synonym to use makes the topic unambiguous. This is not a soccer encyclopedia, and there are places where "soccer" and "footballer" are used together, so we should not use dialectal disambiguators to show that it is a different topic. It does not server the readership. "soccer" does not disambiguate from any other footballer who plays "soccer" (association football). There is no difference between this one and any other footballer. Thus the "born" statement must be attached, or some other further disambiguation. --
70.51.202.183 (
talk)
04:28, 13 June 2015 (UTC)reply
SupportDanny Williams (soccer, born 1989). He's American, so the change of football to soccer is a given. The question here is whether or not to drop the birth year. I think we should keep it because to drop it implies he is the only soccer player of that name. While that might make sense to people where the name for the sport is football, it's actually very confusing to those who call it soccer, e.g. Americans, Australians, Canadians, etc.
Danny Williams (soccer) implies to them (and to me, incidentally) that he is the only notable soccer player named Danny Williams that Wikipedia has an article when that's not the case – we actually half a dozen notable soccer players called Danny Williams, it's just most of them use the "footballer" disambiguation.
Jenks24 (
talk)
19:01, 18 June 2015 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following
WikiProjects:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Football, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Association football on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.FootballWikipedia:WikiProject FootballTemplate:WikiProject Footballfootball articles
The following is a closed discussion of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the move request was: Move. We have a unanimous consensus to replace "footballer" with "soccer" as the subject is American. The birth date will be retained, per consensus in the discussion and the existence of other soccer/football players of the same name.
Cúchullaint/
c11:58, 19 June 2015 (UTC)reply
Support per nom with "born" and all. Ambiguous disambiguation should not be used. It would not help readers identify the topic of the article, since they are all soccer players or footballers, depending on the reader's own dialect of English, and we should not expect all readers to determine that synonyms (soccer player vs footballer) do not mean what they mean in English, but have special Wikipedia meanings depending on the topic's place of birth. Synonyms are not disambiguatory, they are ambiguous, so this needs the birth year --
70.51.202.183 (
talk)
07:29, 7 June 2015 (UTC)reply
There are five association football players. Due to
MOS:TIES, we use North American or British English depending on a person's nationality. Americans don't use the term "footballer", so it would usually be inappropriate to see that term in the title of an American biography. Brits do use soccer, though not as
commonly, so we don't use it in British biographies. See
WP:NCSP for the official formulation. Will this confuse a reader on his or her first day reading about association football on Wikipedia? Yeah, probably. But it's an easy system to get used to, and we can certainly use hatnotes to ease things. --
BDD (
talk)
16:57, 12 June 2015 (UTC)reply
Yes, but this Danny Williams was born in Germany and has played his entire club career in Europe. (soccer, born 1989) is the most clear disambiguation.
Joeykai (
talk)
17:29, 12 June 2015 (UTC)reply
That would be an argument for calling him a footballer, if anything. But since he plays for the US senior team, he's an American for FIFA's purposes, as well as for ours. That could change if he became notable for another profession in Germany or something—see my comments at
Talk:João Mário (footballer, born January 1993)—but that's speculative. --
BDD (
talk)
18:17, 12 June 2015 (UTC)reply
TIES only guides which word to use as a disambiguator, it does not show that the choice of which synonym to use makes the topic unambiguous. This is not a soccer encyclopedia, and there are places where "soccer" and "footballer" are used together, so we should not use dialectal disambiguators to show that it is a different topic. It does not server the readership. "soccer" does not disambiguate from any other footballer who plays "soccer" (association football). There is no difference between this one and any other footballer. Thus the "born" statement must be attached, or some other further disambiguation. --
70.51.202.183 (
talk)
04:28, 13 June 2015 (UTC)reply
SupportDanny Williams (soccer, born 1989). He's American, so the change of football to soccer is a given. The question here is whether or not to drop the birth year. I think we should keep it because to drop it implies he is the only soccer player of that name. While that might make sense to people where the name for the sport is football, it's actually very confusing to those who call it soccer, e.g. Americans, Australians, Canadians, etc.
Danny Williams (soccer) implies to them (and to me, incidentally) that he is the only notable soccer player named Danny Williams that Wikipedia has an article when that's not the case – we actually half a dozen notable soccer players called Danny Williams, it's just most of them use the "footballer" disambiguation.
Jenks24 (
talk)
19:01, 18 June 2015 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a
move review. No further edits should be made to this section.