It is requested that an image or photograph of Danielle Laidley be
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improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
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On 27 January 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Dani Laidley to Danielle Laidley. The result of the discussion was moved. |
I'm not an expert on Wiki guidelines but I'm not sure if Dani's article makes sense as it is.
The introduction states that "Laidley transitioned into a woman in December 2019." Dani's article detailing her playing and coaching career from 1987 through to 2015 uses she/her pronouns, which I don't think is correct. As far as I can tell there is no public evidence to suggest that Dani considered herself to be a woman during her professional career; the news article cited states that "She was ... undergoing a gender transition that began in December last year (2019)."
I think that using pronouns that Dani had not adopted at the time is misgendering her every bit as much as calling her a man today would be. The earliest available evidence that Dani had adopted she/her pronouns was an article from 2020 which stated that her transition began in 2019. The article should refer to Dani's professional AFL career using her name at the time, Dean, and the he/him pronouns she was using at the time (unless she reveals in the future that the article's facts were incorrect and she was a woman prior to 2019).
I'm looking at Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's article as my basis for this; Kareem changed his name from Ferdinand Lewis Alcindor Jr. His Wikipedia article refers to him as Alcindor while describing his history until the date he changed his name, with the article calling him Abdul-Jabbar from then on. This is the same treatment that should be afforded to Dean/Dani Laidler's page.
The page is now protected from revisions so I don't know if I'm able or allowed to correct it but I believe there should be some consensus before doing so either way.
106.69.36.182 ( talk) 09:00, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
I’d say SOME pronoun use is needed in this article at least, “Laidley did X, Laidley did Y” just isn’t very good writing. Steve0377 ( talk) 11:21, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
I wrote and published a book in 2013 about West Australian football, Laidley is mentioned - I'm not going to publish a second edition just to change the "his" to "her". In the present article, it is ludicrous to say Laidley debuted in the VFL in 1987 as a "she" - she's are not permitted to play in the VFL/AFL (as at 15/12/2021).
Just for avoidance of doubt, let me quote the first paragraph of MOS:GENDERID (policy on pronouns and names of trans/gender non conforming people):
In regards to the unsigned comment, you are free to write whatever you want in your own biography, but there is policies on Wikipedia that have to be followed. MarkiPoli ( talk) 11:42, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
Danielle has a memoir coming out in August 2022. There is now enough coverage using the name Danielle Laidley that it might now be appropriate to move the article to that namespace. She was referred to as Danielle at the recent reunion of the 1996 AFL Grand Final players presented before the North Melbourne versus Sydney game on 7 August 2022. Danielle's instagram account also is @daniellemaylaidley07 with she/her pronouns. Storm machine ( talk) 07:52, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 ( talk) 06:12, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
Dani Laidley → Danielle Laidley – (Common name of subject) Cjhard ( talk) 05:11, 27 January 2024 (UTC) Cjhard ( talk) 05:11, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
Support per nom. APM ( talk) 17:42, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
The article uses the phrase "she admitted this" in regard to her gender transition 'admitted' sounds like there is a crime in transitioniong -I propose changing this to 'disclosed' or 'announced'. As the article is locked cant make the edit. What are peoples thoughts? Kregan88 ( talk) 12:31, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
10:27, 5 May 2024 (UTC)
It is requested that an image or photograph of Danielle Laidley be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
On 27 January 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Dani Laidley to Danielle Laidley. The result of the discussion was moved. |
I'm not an expert on Wiki guidelines but I'm not sure if Dani's article makes sense as it is.
The introduction states that "Laidley transitioned into a woman in December 2019." Dani's article detailing her playing and coaching career from 1987 through to 2015 uses she/her pronouns, which I don't think is correct. As far as I can tell there is no public evidence to suggest that Dani considered herself to be a woman during her professional career; the news article cited states that "She was ... undergoing a gender transition that began in December last year (2019)."
I think that using pronouns that Dani had not adopted at the time is misgendering her every bit as much as calling her a man today would be. The earliest available evidence that Dani had adopted she/her pronouns was an article from 2020 which stated that her transition began in 2019. The article should refer to Dani's professional AFL career using her name at the time, Dean, and the he/him pronouns she was using at the time (unless she reveals in the future that the article's facts were incorrect and she was a woman prior to 2019).
I'm looking at Kareem Abdul-Jabbar's article as my basis for this; Kareem changed his name from Ferdinand Lewis Alcindor Jr. His Wikipedia article refers to him as Alcindor while describing his history until the date he changed his name, with the article calling him Abdul-Jabbar from then on. This is the same treatment that should be afforded to Dean/Dani Laidler's page.
The page is now protected from revisions so I don't know if I'm able or allowed to correct it but I believe there should be some consensus before doing so either way.
106.69.36.182 ( talk) 09:00, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
I’d say SOME pronoun use is needed in this article at least, “Laidley did X, Laidley did Y” just isn’t very good writing. Steve0377 ( talk) 11:21, 8 May 2021 (UTC)
I wrote and published a book in 2013 about West Australian football, Laidley is mentioned - I'm not going to publish a second edition just to change the "his" to "her". In the present article, it is ludicrous to say Laidley debuted in the VFL in 1987 as a "she" - she's are not permitted to play in the VFL/AFL (as at 15/12/2021).
Just for avoidance of doubt, let me quote the first paragraph of MOS:GENDERID (policy on pronouns and names of trans/gender non conforming people):
In regards to the unsigned comment, you are free to write whatever you want in your own biography, but there is policies on Wikipedia that have to be followed. MarkiPoli ( talk) 11:42, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
Danielle has a memoir coming out in August 2022. There is now enough coverage using the name Danielle Laidley that it might now be appropriate to move the article to that namespace. She was referred to as Danielle at the recent reunion of the 1996 AFL Grand Final players presented before the North Melbourne versus Sydney game on 7 August 2022. Danielle's instagram account also is @daniellemaylaidley07 with she/her pronouns. Storm machine ( talk) 07:52, 11 August 2022 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Bensci54 ( talk) 06:12, 3 February 2024 (UTC)
Dani Laidley → Danielle Laidley – (Common name of subject) Cjhard ( talk) 05:11, 27 January 2024 (UTC) Cjhard ( talk) 05:11, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
Support per nom. APM ( talk) 17:42, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
The article uses the phrase "she admitted this" in regard to her gender transition 'admitted' sounds like there is a crime in transitioniong -I propose changing this to 'disclosed' or 'announced'. As the article is locked cant make the edit. What are peoples thoughts? Kregan88 ( talk) 12:31, 4 May 2024 (UTC)
10:27, 5 May 2024 (UTC)