This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Dan Marino article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:
|
This is now incorrect. It is true that Marino has the most PASSING yards in a season, but in 2004 Daunte Culpepper passed and rushed for a combined 5,123 yards. I'm changing it to "most passing yards in a season".
The final sentence in the first paragraph has taken many forms: the current one ("greatest pure passer;, my edit ("one of the greatest passers"), and the version just before that ("the greatest passer"). I think we should settle on the wording of this sentence once and for all, maybe even eliminating it.
And as I look further back in the history, perhaps the fairest first paragraph is the one revised at 00:44 on 9 August 2005.
Opinions on how this part of the article should read?
72.10.241.61 05:06, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
I don't think it's a stretch at all to say he's frequently hailed as the best pure passer ever to play. Maybe a better way of stating it would be: "arguably the best pure passer in pro football history". I also think that 'pure' emphasizes his throwing ability perfectly; it has been said many times that coaches throughout his career never tried to tamper with his natural mechanics. 152.163.101.8
maybe instead of "...and is widely recognized as one of the greatest quarterbacks in football history." we could go with something irrefutable:"He has held almost every meaningful NFL passing record and is the most prolific passer in NFL history." the stats bear this notion; maybe "prolific" is the bad word here. - Nod 23:56, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Words like "arguably" and "generally considered" should not be used at all. These are weasal words that ultimately make a claim that cannot be supported by fact. Opinions that can be argued should not be in an encyclopedia entry at all. Simply state the facts- something to the effect of: "Dan Marino set many passing records during his career." Now that is a statement that cannot be argued with. It is up to the reader to decide whether or not that makes Marino one of the greatest. RobS
Dan Marino is not widely considered the greatest quarterback in history. Joe Montana and Johnny Unitas receive at least as much recognition as the greatest quarterback in history.
Generally Marino's name comes first, there's just always an asterisk. Many people call him "statistically" the greatest QB of all time. --
Mankind716 03:04, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Marino is in fact considered one of the best.
I concur with the second and third responders. Regarding his career, only Brett Favre's career numbers have begun to reach the accomolades of Marino(give Favre another year and he'll be ahead of Marino statistically and have some rings...). Joe Montana won either four or all five superbowls he played in, thus he is considered the Mr. Clutch or Big Game quarterback just like Jordan is recognized for his six rings and six Final MVPs. So those of us who value championships and team effort vote Montana the best, those of us who assert that your cumulative numbers should define the best pick Marino(until Favre's #'s overtake Marino's). Ultimately, many will say the best ever was Marino and many will say the best ever was Montana. Montana had a better team and a better coach: should that make a difference? I'd say Favre probably has the best hybrid of huge numbers and a decent amount of NFL jewelry. But that's until Payton Manning's or Tom Brady's numbers overtake theirs.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by UWh20m ( talk • contribs) 22:24, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
Between Brett Favre and Peyton Manning, a lot of these records are gone now... should they be left in with a note on when/who broke them? Don't think it would be right to outright remove them even if I'm not a big Marino fan... :)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 132.42.128.28 ( talk • contribs) .
I think I might have solved that problem with a slight change to the header. PJM 12:49, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
I believe that we should at least add who broke them when they are broken. Brett Favre has already broken at least 4 records on here. I'm not saying that Marino's records are insignificant, but we should give credit where credit is due. 0cycoivan 11/01/06
sorry don't know where else to go but the first paragraph says he has a quick SEXUAL release & a powerful testis... some idiots trying to be funny
You must also consider the amount of time Favre has taken to break Marino's records. Marino had these records in far less time than it took Favre to do the same thing.
ESPN Classic's latest episode of their The Top 5 Reasons You Can't Blame... series concerned the reasons why Dan Marino shouldn't be blamed for never winning a Super Bowl. This is basically the reason why the expand tag has just been added. User:TMC1982
" being ungraciously pushed out of Miami by new coach Dave Wannstedt "
That was in the phrase regarding his retirement, and while it is largely believed by many Dolphin fans (including me), it has no basis in fact. I changed it to : Before the 2000 season, Marino decided to retire, after declining offers from Minnesota and his hometown of Pittsburgh. The part I deleted had been after the first comma. Nanaharas 04:57, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
I added his stated reason from his retirement press conference. Nanaharas 04:33, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
I get it people, many of you don't like MArino, but to claim he didn't have a reason to exist at that point of time...
I'm not sure what the point of the following ELs is, so i've moved them here. Thoughts?
They don't seem to "pass" WP:EL. Jmfangio 09:54, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Well it looks like I have found an article to work on. It seems that the FirstPlus article is used as a ref and that's all it should be used in. Jmfangio 10:12, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
I put all of Marino's stats in table format. I could not find in any of the sources Dan's passer rating or longest completion for his playoff stats, so if anyone knows where to find those stats, either put them in or let me know, thanks!
Gonzo fan2007
talk ♦
contribs 18:32, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
The table format is much better, but the marker for Marino's remaining NFL record is all but invisible since it is aqua on aqua.
Moretz (
talk) 22:27, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Just a suggestion. I dont have the time to do it myself right now, but Dan Marino's college stats are available at totalfootballstats.com, if someone wants to add a table for those under "college career". Mugman17 ( talk) 18:22, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
These sentences were confusing - they read as if Marino himself kicked a field goal: Marino played college football at the University of Pittsburgh from the 1979 to the 1982 season. As a freshman in 1979, Marino led the Panthers in a 24-17 triumph over West Virginia in the Backyard Brawl with 252 yards and a field goal. Marino threw for 256 yards and also rushed for 40 yards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.191.241.48 ( talk) 15:21, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
I've removed some content a couple of times now as non-encyclopedic; it was most recently re-added with the edit summary That's all fact-based and could easily be sourced if necessary. Well, it could be thought of as necessary except for the fact that the wording itself is just plain non-encyclopedic:
Keeping WP:V, WP:RS, WP:CITE, and most especially WP:PEACOCK in mind, there are several problems with this passage. Most skilled and revered, incredibly quick, important weapons, and uncanny awareness are judgments. Instead, by listing his accomplishments and by quoting reliable sources, we can (and should) say things more along the lines of accomplished quarterback, known for quick release (with cite), excellent peripheral vision (with cite), and the like. The last two sentences seem OK as they are except that they are completely unsourced. Frank | talk 22:14, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
There's a claim that Marino was named #25 on an NFL all-time list, but the reference is to a 2011 list on which he does not appear at all. Clearly the link is bad. Since there does not appear to be any supporting information, that is unreferenced, and I've removed it twice. I could even pull WP:BLP but...it's really not referenced. If he was number 25, surely we can find an actual reference that supports it. If not...it's been challenged and should not be reinstated. Frank | talk 02:01, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
Do most articles on athletes include a personal section which talks about things like affairs? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/31/dan-marino-love-child-_n_2594611.html
He's admitted it, so there aren't any BLP problems. Thoughts? LedRush ( talk) 05:42, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
Personally, I think anyone who confuses the two deserves what they have coming to them. One is a quarterback, the other is a principality.-- Guiletheme ( talk) 20:53, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
San Marino is the oldest republic in the world, established in the 1300s. Donutcity ( talk) 02:46, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Dan Marino. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 20:38, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
I would like to add this sentence to the end of the header:
"Marino is considered by many to be the greatest quarterback to never win a Super Bowl".
I don't know about you, but when I think of Marino, that is the very first thing I think of. If you Google "greatest quarterback to never win a Super Bowl", there are many lists, and Marino is on the top of each and every one. If no one has any objections within the next couple of days, I'm adding it. Zdawg1029 ( talk) 01:56, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
"Marino is considered by many to be one of the greatest quarterbacks to never win a Super Bowl".
It's sort of an odd picture. It appears to be in motion of him adjusting his face/mouth, and just overall, not a good, encyclopedic representation of what he looks like, so I don't really understand why it was approved. 2601:58B:C601:7AE0:9045:21F0:45B6:7CA3 ( talk) 15:43, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
@ Fade258: @ SloppyMuffin67: @ Sennecaster: You all have reverted edits that state Marino was a 5x second-team All Pro player rather than only three times. However, the source used in the All-Pro articles by year, pro-football-reference.com, shows that Dan Marino was an AP selected second-team All-Pro player in both 1988 and 1983. I accepted an edit correcting it to five times, I just wanted to note this since it has been reverted multiple times previously. Thanks! — FORMALDUDE ( talk) 04:05, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
Hi, I donot find information in sources which you reverted or information which you had accepted.( Fade258 ( talk) 05:37, 25 June 2021 (UTC))
Sorry I am browsing in mobile.I think you are right to accept that edit.( Fade258 ( talk) 06:12, 25 June 2021 (UTC)) <be
@ KristofferAG: pinging you as the newest member of the club of people editing Marino's Second-Team AP All Pro award stats. –– 𝗙𝗼𝗿𝗺𝗮𝗹𝗗𝘂𝗱𝗲 talk 19:12, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
Why are you only allowing the AP All-Pro Teams? The Hall of Fame and Pro Football Reference recognizes Marino as an 8-Time All-Pro. Stating on this page that he was only a 6-Time All-Pro is NOT a correct statement and gives your site no credibility. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarinoFan13 ( talk • contribs) 12:10, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 19:23, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
dan needs to hang out with dignan more 125.253.110.13 ( talk) 13:22, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Dan Marino article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:
|
This is now incorrect. It is true that Marino has the most PASSING yards in a season, but in 2004 Daunte Culpepper passed and rushed for a combined 5,123 yards. I'm changing it to "most passing yards in a season".
The final sentence in the first paragraph has taken many forms: the current one ("greatest pure passer;, my edit ("one of the greatest passers"), and the version just before that ("the greatest passer"). I think we should settle on the wording of this sentence once and for all, maybe even eliminating it.
And as I look further back in the history, perhaps the fairest first paragraph is the one revised at 00:44 on 9 August 2005.
Opinions on how this part of the article should read?
72.10.241.61 05:06, 1 October 2005 (UTC)
I don't think it's a stretch at all to say he's frequently hailed as the best pure passer ever to play. Maybe a better way of stating it would be: "arguably the best pure passer in pro football history". I also think that 'pure' emphasizes his throwing ability perfectly; it has been said many times that coaches throughout his career never tried to tamper with his natural mechanics. 152.163.101.8
maybe instead of "...and is widely recognized as one of the greatest quarterbacks in football history." we could go with something irrefutable:"He has held almost every meaningful NFL passing record and is the most prolific passer in NFL history." the stats bear this notion; maybe "prolific" is the bad word here. - Nod 23:56, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Words like "arguably" and "generally considered" should not be used at all. These are weasal words that ultimately make a claim that cannot be supported by fact. Opinions that can be argued should not be in an encyclopedia entry at all. Simply state the facts- something to the effect of: "Dan Marino set many passing records during his career." Now that is a statement that cannot be argued with. It is up to the reader to decide whether or not that makes Marino one of the greatest. RobS
Dan Marino is not widely considered the greatest quarterback in history. Joe Montana and Johnny Unitas receive at least as much recognition as the greatest quarterback in history.
Generally Marino's name comes first, there's just always an asterisk. Many people call him "statistically" the greatest QB of all time. --
Mankind716 03:04, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Marino is in fact considered one of the best.
I concur with the second and third responders. Regarding his career, only Brett Favre's career numbers have begun to reach the accomolades of Marino(give Favre another year and he'll be ahead of Marino statistically and have some rings...). Joe Montana won either four or all five superbowls he played in, thus he is considered the Mr. Clutch or Big Game quarterback just like Jordan is recognized for his six rings and six Final MVPs. So those of us who value championships and team effort vote Montana the best, those of us who assert that your cumulative numbers should define the best pick Marino(until Favre's #'s overtake Marino's). Ultimately, many will say the best ever was Marino and many will say the best ever was Montana. Montana had a better team and a better coach: should that make a difference? I'd say Favre probably has the best hybrid of huge numbers and a decent amount of NFL jewelry. But that's until Payton Manning's or Tom Brady's numbers overtake theirs.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by UWh20m ( talk • contribs) 22:24, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
Between Brett Favre and Peyton Manning, a lot of these records are gone now... should they be left in with a note on when/who broke them? Don't think it would be right to outright remove them even if I'm not a big Marino fan... :)—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 132.42.128.28 ( talk • contribs) .
I think I might have solved that problem with a slight change to the header. PJM 12:49, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
I believe that we should at least add who broke them when they are broken. Brett Favre has already broken at least 4 records on here. I'm not saying that Marino's records are insignificant, but we should give credit where credit is due. 0cycoivan 11/01/06
sorry don't know where else to go but the first paragraph says he has a quick SEXUAL release & a powerful testis... some idiots trying to be funny
You must also consider the amount of time Favre has taken to break Marino's records. Marino had these records in far less time than it took Favre to do the same thing.
ESPN Classic's latest episode of their The Top 5 Reasons You Can't Blame... series concerned the reasons why Dan Marino shouldn't be blamed for never winning a Super Bowl. This is basically the reason why the expand tag has just been added. User:TMC1982
" being ungraciously pushed out of Miami by new coach Dave Wannstedt "
That was in the phrase regarding his retirement, and while it is largely believed by many Dolphin fans (including me), it has no basis in fact. I changed it to : Before the 2000 season, Marino decided to retire, after declining offers from Minnesota and his hometown of Pittsburgh. The part I deleted had been after the first comma. Nanaharas 04:57, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
I added his stated reason from his retirement press conference. Nanaharas 04:33, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
I get it people, many of you don't like MArino, but to claim he didn't have a reason to exist at that point of time...
I'm not sure what the point of the following ELs is, so i've moved them here. Thoughts?
They don't seem to "pass" WP:EL. Jmfangio 09:54, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
Well it looks like I have found an article to work on. It seems that the FirstPlus article is used as a ref and that's all it should be used in. Jmfangio 10:12, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
I put all of Marino's stats in table format. I could not find in any of the sources Dan's passer rating or longest completion for his playoff stats, so if anyone knows where to find those stats, either put them in or let me know, thanks!
Gonzo fan2007
talk ♦
contribs 18:32, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
The table format is much better, but the marker for Marino's remaining NFL record is all but invisible since it is aqua on aqua.
Moretz (
talk) 22:27, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Just a suggestion. I dont have the time to do it myself right now, but Dan Marino's college stats are available at totalfootballstats.com, if someone wants to add a table for those under "college career". Mugman17 ( talk) 18:22, 11 July 2010 (UTC)
These sentences were confusing - they read as if Marino himself kicked a field goal: Marino played college football at the University of Pittsburgh from the 1979 to the 1982 season. As a freshman in 1979, Marino led the Panthers in a 24-17 triumph over West Virginia in the Backyard Brawl with 252 yards and a field goal. Marino threw for 256 yards and also rushed for 40 yards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.191.241.48 ( talk) 15:21, 21 May 2010 (UTC)
I've removed some content a couple of times now as non-encyclopedic; it was most recently re-added with the edit summary That's all fact-based and could easily be sourced if necessary. Well, it could be thought of as necessary except for the fact that the wording itself is just plain non-encyclopedic:
Keeping WP:V, WP:RS, WP:CITE, and most especially WP:PEACOCK in mind, there are several problems with this passage. Most skilled and revered, incredibly quick, important weapons, and uncanny awareness are judgments. Instead, by listing his accomplishments and by quoting reliable sources, we can (and should) say things more along the lines of accomplished quarterback, known for quick release (with cite), excellent peripheral vision (with cite), and the like. The last two sentences seem OK as they are except that they are completely unsourced. Frank | talk 22:14, 17 December 2010 (UTC)
There's a claim that Marino was named #25 on an NFL all-time list, but the reference is to a 2011 list on which he does not appear at all. Clearly the link is bad. Since there does not appear to be any supporting information, that is unreferenced, and I've removed it twice. I could even pull WP:BLP but...it's really not referenced. If he was number 25, surely we can find an actual reference that supports it. If not...it's been challenged and should not be reinstated. Frank | talk 02:01, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
Do most articles on athletes include a personal section which talks about things like affairs? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/31/dan-marino-love-child-_n_2594611.html
He's admitted it, so there aren't any BLP problems. Thoughts? LedRush ( talk) 05:42, 10 February 2013 (UTC)
Personally, I think anyone who confuses the two deserves what they have coming to them. One is a quarterback, the other is a principality.-- Guiletheme ( talk) 20:53, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
San Marino is the oldest republic in the world, established in the 1300s. Donutcity ( talk) 02:46, 26 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Dan Marino. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 20:38, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
I would like to add this sentence to the end of the header:
"Marino is considered by many to be the greatest quarterback to never win a Super Bowl".
I don't know about you, but when I think of Marino, that is the very first thing I think of. If you Google "greatest quarterback to never win a Super Bowl", there are many lists, and Marino is on the top of each and every one. If no one has any objections within the next couple of days, I'm adding it. Zdawg1029 ( talk) 01:56, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
"Marino is considered by many to be one of the greatest quarterbacks to never win a Super Bowl".
It's sort of an odd picture. It appears to be in motion of him adjusting his face/mouth, and just overall, not a good, encyclopedic representation of what he looks like, so I don't really understand why it was approved. 2601:58B:C601:7AE0:9045:21F0:45B6:7CA3 ( talk) 15:43, 19 June 2021 (UTC)
@ Fade258: @ SloppyMuffin67: @ Sennecaster: You all have reverted edits that state Marino was a 5x second-team All Pro player rather than only three times. However, the source used in the All-Pro articles by year, pro-football-reference.com, shows that Dan Marino was an AP selected second-team All-Pro player in both 1988 and 1983. I accepted an edit correcting it to five times, I just wanted to note this since it has been reverted multiple times previously. Thanks! — FORMALDUDE ( talk) 04:05, 25 June 2021 (UTC)
Hi, I donot find information in sources which you reverted or information which you had accepted.( Fade258 ( talk) 05:37, 25 June 2021 (UTC))
Sorry I am browsing in mobile.I think you are right to accept that edit.( Fade258 ( talk) 06:12, 25 June 2021 (UTC)) <be
@ KristofferAG: pinging you as the newest member of the club of people editing Marino's Second-Team AP All Pro award stats. –– 𝗙𝗼𝗿𝗺𝗮𝗹𝗗𝘂𝗱𝗲 talk 19:12, 16 August 2021 (UTC)
Why are you only allowing the AP All-Pro Teams? The Hall of Fame and Pro Football Reference recognizes Marino as an 8-Time All-Pro. Stating on this page that he was only a 6-Time All-Pro is NOT a correct statement and gives your site no credibility. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarinoFan13 ( talk • contribs) 12:10, 1 September 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 19:23, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
dan needs to hang out with dignan more 125.253.110.13 ( talk) 13:22, 7 January 2024 (UTC)