This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Why would one breed a dog to run along horses or carriages? Kent Wang 01:27, 29 May 2004 (UTC)
However, I took out this sentence: "It is also sometimes, believed to erroneously, named Smaller Danish Dog." - as it does not on the face of it seem to make sense. What does it mean? Can we sort it out and put it back? -- Nevilley 23:37, 29 May 2004 (UTC)
So, I am a Dalmatian too... ehm... and I'm not a dog. :) Dalmatians are also the inhabitants of Dalmatia, so I would like to move this page to "Dalmatian (dog)" and make "Dalmatian" a disambig page which would link to Dalmatia (for the people). If there are no objections in the next few days I'd like to proceed with that change. -- Arny 20:58, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
Ok, here's the deal: I made the change and corrected links from all articles about dogs and/or dalmatians I could find. There remain some links from userpages and articles concerning other topics. They now simply go to the disambiguation page (for which I used Maltese page as the template). This OK? -- Arny 00:17, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
Much of what's on this page is identical to that on http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/dalmatian.htm. That site states "The Material contained herein may not be reproduced without the prior written approval of the author. © 1998-2006 All Rights Reserved." 198.49.180.40 17:51, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
The article states that dalmations are "unique" in being able to smile. Does anyone have a reference to prove this is true? I have seen several dogs from other breeds do this as well, so I think a reputable source may be hard to find! -- Rachel 22:56, 3 Oct 2006
In response to the picture request, I have added two new photographs of our dog Paris (or Zagrab's Temptress at TNG), who is now retired from showing. Both pictures are from different angles, showing the front and side of the dog, both in the stacked, show conformation style. Mllefantine 01:23, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Something's wrong with the Printable Version. I can only see a chaos there.
Found this while reading the history section of the article: "...However, no historical evidence of this breed being present in the Balkans dates before the early 20th century, when they where brought there by England." This is simply not true. There is a handful of evidence that these dogs were bred in Dalmatia during the medieval ages and where used as war dogs for taking down horses by biting them at the snout. In fact, there was a whole regiment equipped with these animals that fought against the Turks in the battle of Mohacko polje. 161.53.129.244 14:04, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
There was a statement saying that no other breed has spotted markings "(except for the " Harlequin" variety of the Great Dane). This is false: a harlequin's markings are more akin to a cow's patchy black markings; patches of color are undesirable on dalmatians, with the standard calling for clearly distinguishable, round spots (key here is the distinction between spot and patch). While it's true that a certain resemblance exists between dalmatians and harlequin great danes, it should be phrased in a way that makes it clear that it's just a resemblance, and in no way are the dalmatian's spots non-unique among dogs. With apologies to Ossipewsk, I chose to remove the statement since it's a bit misleading; I'm not opposed to adding this information again but please phrase in a way that makes this issue as clear as possible. Thanks! Roadmr ( t| c) 02:07, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
So to be correct according to the standard... I guess we shouldn't have named our Dal "Patches!" But I just couldn't imagine calling her "Spot!" ;-)
I note a lot of words and phrases like "must" and "is not acceptable" in this article (e.g. "In liver Dalmatians, the nose must always be brown", "The blue eye is not acceptable in British Dalmatians"). It's written a little too much like a dog show handbook. Just because a dog does not meet the strict requirements of showing does not mean it's "not acceptable", just that it can't be shown. The whole tone strikes me, as a dog lover but not someone in any shape or form interested in the artificial world of dog shows, as somewhat arrogant, and I really think it should be rewritten in a slightly less condescending tone. By all means say what the dog show requirements are, but don't imply that dogs which are slightly outside those requirements are somehow inferior or unacceptable, any more than you would imply that human beings who are not among the "beautiful people" are somehow inferior or unacceptable. This is no more than a POV, and as in every other class of article there is no place for it in Wikipedia. -- Necrothesp 00:35, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Can someone please change the section which details the size of the spots? To anyone outside of America, the size of a quarter or a dime means nothing. I would change it, but I have no idea of the size of these coins! Thanks KillerKat ( talk) 20:18, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
A review of Imbris' edit history reveals a nasty and chauvinistic, ill-informed user who refuses other users who have well-researched, scholarly contributions. Imbris is using this page to create an "FCI" type page, and in doing so, has reduced this forum to a political one. I see now why the content of this page has been substandard for all these years while the breed pages for other breeds has truly excelled. The nasty, selfish actions of an egotist can really defeat the entire purpose of WIKIPEDIA. Witness the Dalmatian page.
Woodrowpongo ( talk) 20:28, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
This kind of defamation deserves the ANI. I will not defend my character, we are not here for such edits, we are here to edit reliable sources and colaborate without violence. In accordance with WP you need more sources than one obscure author, and you need to learn to quote appropriately, with page numbers and links to books.google.com. Also you are a Canadian user, simpathetic to British Empire and similar. This is clear to us all. -- Imbris ( talk) 21:14, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
@Imbrs, you are a nationalist twat and an idiot of the worst kind, you should be banned from editing any article pretending to European history. Now can someone ban this idiot please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.25.196.88 ( talk) 04:05, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
Dear Imbris and others, FCI is the only source which recognizes country of origin of the Dalmatian. No other Dalmatian authority accepts the FCI claim, because there is no research to substantiate it.
You are welcome to continue to revert the Country of Origin to Yugoslavia, if you wish. To do so is misleading and uninformed. To do so is also contrary to Wikipedia principles, which state that your propositions should be researched and verifiable.
Simply repeating chauvinistic assertions fails to meet appropriate wiki standards.
Woodrowpongo (
talk) 20:04, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Dear Mr. Imbris, You reveal your ignorance. The FCI has no such status whatsoever: it is merely one of several national standards clubs. You are clearly uninformed on the topic of dogs, dog breeding and Dalmatians. Your methods and approach are in complete violation of wiki principles. You have clearly not read wiki policies and procedures; instead you are using this wiki as a personal forum -- a purpose which is forbidden. In doing so, you are denying readers their right to accurate and unbiased quality information. Virtually each and every line of the current wiki contains factual errors which require correction. I suggest you go and write for the wiki entry "BULLDOG" and leave civilized Dalmatian people alone.
Woodrowpongo ( talk) 06:26, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
This article is awful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.174.229.189 ( talk) 04:29, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
The headings, “Appearance”, “Body”, “Size”, “Coat”, “Coloring” are basically a few of the key points of the breed standard (usually the AKC, with occasional marginal notes about other nations’ breed standard). The author has also thrown breed standard information into other sections, where it does not really belong (e.g. discussion of coat disqualifications in paragraph 1 – inappropriately specific level of detail re: one aspect of dog ownership, conformation showing). The next section, which should contain specifics, remains general.
I suggest a comprehensive review of the breed standard. This could even include the three major kennel clubs, US, UK and Canada. The subheadings are: General Appearance, Temperament, Size, Coat/Colour, Skull, Muzzle, Eyes, Ears, Neck, Topline/Body, Forequarters, Hindquarters, Tail, Feet, and Gait.
Gestation period is not specific to the Dalmatian. It makes little sense to state "Dalmatian's gestation is about 2 months". Gestation for all dogs is the same.
Woodrowpongo ( talk) 20:11, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
The accuracy of the statements in this section is uknown: unsourced, they seem to reflect a point of view, which is not an acceptable purpose for a WIKI.
Further, the content of the questionable statements is redundant, merely repeating what the author has already tried to advance in the section entitled "Training".
Here again, if there is any place for this type of statement in a wiki, then my view is that it is under a heading such as "Breed Rescue" - conditions which led to the need for breed rescues and/or tested their capacities.
Otherwise, these statements lack the neutrality which is necessary for a quality WIKI entry.
As much as one might agree with them, they have little place in an encyclopedia. Making such arguments is the job of breed rescues, humane societies, and professional dog breeders. Encyclopedias can POINT to these sources, but must not adopt their views. To do so is against WIKI policy.
Woodrowpongo (
talk) 20:11, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
The portion on Budweiser Beer and Anheuser-Busch does not belong in the section called History. As it stands, it sounds a little like an endorsement for a brewery, thus weakening the perceived reliability of this article.
I suggest the approach taken in the Old English Sheepdog wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English_Sheepdog
There, the breed is also commercially associated with a paint manufacturer, Dulux. The heading used is Miscellaneous. Under the heading, the story -- which is of interest only to those who know of the Dulux dog -- is given.
I suggest hiving off the Anheuser-Busch reference in a similar fashion, as it is only a regional reference, unknown outside of the US. Other regional writers/editors would then feel welcome to add their own regional *mascots* in advertising, without the article seeming to be an endorsement of Budweiser.
Woodrowpongo (
talk) 19:41, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
PROBLEM This section does not belong in an encylopedic breed description, as its content represents an individual's Point of View, and therefore do not meet WIKI criteria. Approaches to basic training is (in most normal circumstances)are not specific to breeds.
The content is additionally suspect because it is anthropomorphized (as mentioned by an editor below), key statements being unsourced.
The author also conflates breed rescue services with training. The temptation to make the linkage between training challenges and breed rescue is understandable, but not permitted by WIKI (because it is a point of view, rather than a fact).
Further, there is nothing breed-specific about dogs being given up because owners are too lazy to train them. It is a rather offensive that the first statement about training deals with the author's view of people who get it wrong.
SUGGESTED APPROACH I suggest replacing this with a link to the WIKI section on Dog Training and Behaviour, located at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Dog_training_and_behavior
The author's interests can be accommodated, if they can be stated according to WIKI criteria (no personal points of view), by adding a section entitled, Breed Rescue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Dog_training_and_behavior
Woodrowpongo ( talk) 19:29, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
As of today (January 25, 2009), the Training sentence begins in the middle of a sentence. I don't have the knowledge to do anything about it.
John W. Kennedy ( talk) 00:05, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
I heard that Dalmatians were not good family pets and can be aggressive. Is that true or did that just come out of nowhere? I'm only wondering because I was writing an article for a newsletter and I want my facts to be true. It's a Dalmatian article for a dog newsletter.
Like all improperly handled and trained dogs, Dalmatians can be very aggressive and dangerous. Their heritage is in guarding things (carriages, horses, etc.) and they are very territorial. Dalmatians are, however, the most affectionate breed of dog I have ever come across. With proper obedience training and curbing of bad behaviors, Dalmatians make wonderful family dogs. The thing is that you can't just plop a full-grown, untrained Dalmatian into a gaggle of small children and expect it to play nice. It takes work.
This is information that has been perpetuated since bad breeding practices* and innapropriate ownership / lack of excercise training became commonplace after a certain films release led to an upsurge in popularity. Its an opinion I am often questioned over when walking my Dalmatian, and people are amazed that he adores kids and is extremely gentle. Any breed of dog if improperly trained/ stimulated/ exercised/ socialised could be aggresive or develop other personality flaws. I see no evidence that dalmatians display a worse tendency in this respect. They are certainly energetic and require stimulation or can become destructive but that is the same for many similarly active breeds. Part of the belief may also have been perpetuated as adults told children that dalmatians didnt like children to negate requests for such a pet after seeing THE FILM. This has been brought to my attention as a number of people who have queried my pets temperament came to there belief exactly this way. Dalmatians have since declined in popularity and the number of breeders has dropped greatly (certainly in my area - Ontario). More responsible breeding means generally better temperament and health of the breed, but long waiting list and a lengthy journey may be required if you want to a pet "spotter".
Gnarlyswine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.75.172.53 ( talk) 16:36, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
They are not reccommended for families with children. http://animal.discovery.com/breed-selector/dog-breeds/non-sporting/dalmatian.html Ggrzw ( talk) 19:20, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
This page is looking really bad. The formatting is appauling! The use of titles, separaters and bold font is completely irregular. Also the section on Dalmatian training is extremely biased towards the author's own personal opinian of dog training. It is unprofessional and does not belong in an encyclopedic entry. There is no specific kind of "Dalamtian" training. Also, what happened to the old "Talk" page? There were several discussions that were valuable and should not have been deleted. This page a mess! Mllefantine 20:34, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
I have been editing the pages with great care (i.e. only the 'Training' and 'Other Issues section'. My statements are primarily from the Dalmatians welfare point of view than a seller's point of view. In case you are deleting statements or modifying them, please indicate here, by way of discussion, clearly why you choose to do so. In particular, I would appreciate it if the first sentence in the training section is not deleted. Please sign up to one of the Dalamation rescues and see the plight of these lives brought upon by ignorance of the facts in the training section.
- Some of the spellings in there might seem a tad strange; they are not incorrect.
192.100.124.218 12:00, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
What are your thoughts on this statement in the "Training": "Dalmatians have extremely sensitive personalities and will not forget ill-treatment and ill-treatment can and certainly will break a dog's spirit and a Dalmatian's - certainly so." I feel it's not really specific to Dalmatians. I don't think they are any more sesitive then any other breed--in fact, from owning three and working with numerous others, I would have to say they are extremely stubborn and strong willed and much LESS sensitive then any other breed that I have owned or trained. They are not a particularily willing-to-please breed. Obviously I am NOT condoning ill treatment of any breed, I just don't believe this information is specific to Dalmatians--at all! I feel it is leading people astray as to the typical personality of the breed. Would anyone object if I altered this? Mllefantine 19:31, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Looking at reference number 10, it actually states that Dominicans (the order of Catholic priests) are the "Watchdogs of the Lord", not Dalmatians. And the link between dalmatians and dominicans is weak at best.
"Blue eyes are regarded as a fault by many organisations because Dalmatians with blue eyes are entirely deaf in the ear(s) on the same side(s) as the blue eyes." Any sources/evidence of this??? Back it up or it should be removed ... 67.161.186.85 06:05, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
There is a higher percentage of blue eyed dogs that are deaf , however certainly not all, this applies to a number of breeds though not just dalmatian. The gene causing deafness is also unfortunaltely linked to the spots so cant be bred out without introducing another breed lineage .
Something like this has /is being tried by the backcross project to eradicate another common dalmation problem with the urinary tract
http://www.dalmatianheritage.com/about/Seltzer.htm
unfortunately AKC wont recognize these dogs currently.
216.75.172.53 (
talk) 16:48, 29 May 2008 (UTC)Gnarlyswine
Just a few minutes ago one editor placed two images into the article in good faith, and another editor immediately removed them, citing as the reason that they had been removed before. I see no discussion here or in the archive relating to a discussion that there are too many images in this article. I don't think that good faith edits that don't damage the content of the article should be reverted without a bit of discussion. I do think that it would be nice to have photos relevant to the sections they are in, e.g. a Dal in the obedience ring for the training section and one with a firefighter in the association with firefighters section. Perhaps we could even get a picture of a dog actually coaching? — Elipongo ( Talk| contribs) 03:26, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
These are the two images I posted that were immediately removed with no discussion. The user informed me that this is an encyclopedia, not a pet gallery. Can I get some thoughts on whether these should be permitted on the page? I realize there are getting to be a lot of pictures, but the one is a very good head shot, and the second depicts a Dalmation close up, from the front angle. I feel these are more encyclopedic then some of the others. For example the Dalmatian in the woods is a great pic, but it's difficult to see the dog because the picture is at a distance and the harness is distracting. Also, the dogs in the pictures are show quality animals, which I think is important in an encyclopedic entry about a purebred breed. I agree that it would be nice to get some pictures of Dalmatians coaching, or doing agility, etc. Mllefantine 19:16, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Image:A black-spotted female dalmatian.jpg
Image:Black_spotted_female_dalmatian.jpg to this one: Image:A black-spotted female dalmatian.jpg As long as they're both encyclopedic and illustrate the subject, I believe the first one (which was removed) is more pleasing than the second one (quite clearly just another "my pet in the kitchen" shot). I'm also a long-time watcher of this page and I'm puzzled by the removal of the first, a (IMHO) better picture which, to boot, had been in this article a lot longer, while keeping what I consider an inferior picture. Roadmr ( t| c) 22:27, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Can someone please put a picture of a lemon spotted dalmatian on here? They may now be show ring acceptable dogs, but it would be nice to see them.
Second shot - of female dog isnt really a good example of breed standard - shows currently popular "ghost face" patterning - very white facy , lots of heavy black on neck shoulders. Lots of merged spots dont actually meet the breed standard well so a more evenly spotted dog would be better. 216.75.172.53 ( talk) 16:51, 29 May 2008 (UTC)Gnarlyswine
I know that this is not an AKC breed standard page but feel that it would be best if the pictures in some way better represented the typical breed , and that is a white dog with black spots as the vast majority of %. The foremost picture being of a liver spot and rather a high % just doesnt seem appropriate. By all means I would add examples (including the lemon , and maybe long haired) in a varients section. Likewise with the association which is a strong identifier with the breed , a coaching , and fire engine shot would seem appropriate. My personal feeling is that the Budweiser connection is quite appropriate also as despite others feeling of this being to US - centric , they have featured heavily in superbowl adds which reaches a huge global audience. I became first aware of the Budweiser / Dalmatian connection whilst still residing in europe so do not feel an example would be innapropriate. - Gnarlyswine — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
216.220.56.82 (
talk) 20:00, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
I think it would be good to know how old the puppies (with spots) are, to get an impression on how fast the dots appear. -- Murata ( talk) 22:10, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
Temple Grandin noted in Animals in Translation that dalmatians suffer from temperament problems due to the chemical whose lack causes the distinctive coloration also being a calming hormone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.69.118.1 ( talk) 00:19, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
i like the 101 dalmation written by dodie smith —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.27.7.6 ( talk) 23:27, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
I have edited this article to remove the improper NPOV and citation tagging added by Woodrowpongo. If this user or any other wishes to reinstate these changes, please use proper NPOV templates for the article, and proper formatting for tagging unsourced claims. -- Trunkalunk ( talk) 05:21, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
Kidney and bladder stones
The section called "Kidney and bladder stones" contains the following inaccurate information. Uricase: the article makes two contradictory statements (1) that the uric acid problem is a fact of liver transport, not absence of the enzyme and (2) that the enzyme is not present in the gene pool at all. As for the pathology, the enzyme is actually present; the problem is with re-absorption by the kidneys.
Crosses to English Pointers: this section makes the mistake of presenting itself as neutral when it is actually a scientist's as-yet unproven hypothesis. It also reflects a misunderstanding of the mechanism leading to urinary stones in Dalmatians.
The article states"the 'normal' gene for uricase is not present in the breed's gene pool at all. Therefore, there is no possibility of eliminatring hyperuricemia among pure-bred [sic] Dalmatians. The only possible solution o this problem must then be crossing Dalmatians with other breeds in order to reintroduce the 'normal uricase gene."
The section then goes on to describe the "Dalmatian-Pointer Backcross Project" as well as a history of internal business of the Dalmatian Club of Canada with respect to the backcross progeny.
Gout is a secondary complication that would only afflict a small percentage of the small percentage of Dalmatians that suffer from manifest symptoms of high uric acid. Gout therefore is overspecialized as an encyclopedia entry on general information on the breed. Therefore, mentioning gout and its treatment is not necessary, and may be misleading.
RECOMMENDATIONS
Woodrowpongo ( talk) 14:25, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
FYI -- I have built the footnotes to go along with all statements in this section, but not yet converted them to wki.
During digestion, most vertebrates convert into uric acid the substances in food called purines. Uric acid is then converted by the enzyme called uricase into allantoin before being expelled in the urine. The Dalmatian is the only breed of dog whose urine does not convert the uric acid into allantoin. Earlier, it was thought that Dalmatians lack the enzyme, uricase. It is now understood that uric acid is not resorbed by the kidney tubules in Dalmatians as it is in other dogs. As a consquence, urinary uric acid production in Dalmatians is about twenty times higher than that of normal canines.
Uric acid acting on the epithelial cells in the bladder wall causes bladder stones. This leads to the formation of urate crystals. It is possible to have urine samples checked by your veterinarian for cystal formation. This condition is called urolithiasis. Eventually, the crystals from the salts of uric acid join together to form sand, stones or calculi in in the urine. Signs of urinary problems include: frequent and difficult urination, excessive straining, passing little urine, blood in urine, loss of "housebreaking" and behavioural changes. All Dalmatians are susceptible to urinary stones.
Urinary stones form in the bladder. Sometimes, “gravel” will be passed in the urine. Sometimes, in acute cases, small stones or sludge will pile up in the bladder. The accumulation reduces the capacity of the dogs bladder. The accumulation may actually block passage of urine from the bladder. This condition requires surgery to remove the accumulation of sludge.
Complete blockage of the urinary tract by one or more stones can occur. This occurs more often in middle-aged males than bitches. Sometimes a stone will be lodged in the urethra and cause great pain. It can be fatal if not treated promptly. Some experts estimate 20% of male Dalmatians will suffer life-threatening urinary blockage.
Dalmatian owners should take care to seek out a diet which does not contain proteins high in purines. Organ meats -- especially liver, and beef -- are major sources of purines and should be avoided. Lamb, poultry, eggs and most vegetables are proteins which are lower in purines.
Water dilutes the uric acid, postponing the precipitation of cystals leading to stone formation. Adequate water should be provided at all times. One scientist has stated that, because of the importance of hydration, feeding dry food to Dalmatians should be avoided. In the alternative, the dry food can be soaked. Dalmatians should also be given frequent opportunities to urinate in order to flush their urinary tracts of any crystals.
It is thought that one of the foundation dogs from which the Dalmatian originally arose also carried a genetic mutation for the uric acid defect. It has been hypothesized that attempts to breed out the problem have failed because all Dalmatians carry the same defect. In the early1970s, a University of Indiana geneticist tried a new approach, by bringing new genetic material into the breed. He bred a champion Pointer to a purebred Dalmatian and then bred subsequent generations back to purebred Dalmatians. By the fifth generation, the dogs were reportedly indistinguishable from other purebred Dalmatians in all but one aspect: about half of the offspring had normal uric acid levels. As of 2008, there are a reported twelve generations descended from the original Dalmatian-Pointer cross. Controversy reigns as to whether crossing the Dalmatian with another breed is the proper approach to the uric acid defect
FURTHER READING:
Dalmatian Uric Acid Defect and Genetics - http://www.luadalmatians.com/Basics.html
The Dalmatian Heritage Project: http://www.dalmatianheritage.com/about/schaible_research.htm
First of all discussions go below one other.
And now let me explain the Statutes of the FCI, latest accepted in Acapulco on May 22nd, 2007
Some definitions: Breed Standard: Ideal cynological description of a breed. National canine organisation: An all-breed national canine organisation recognised by the FCI.
My comment: the breed standards of the country of origin is the one that superseed the translations to four official languages of the FCI, French, English, German and Spanish.
No comment neccessary. Even to the editor based in Canada Privy Council Office.
No comment neccessary.
Imbris ( talk) 21:56, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
This article focuses too much on the AKC's standards for the dogs. I came to the page to learn about the dog, not what is or is not acceptable in the show ring. I think that all of the AKC's standards should be gathered and put together into one section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.32.157.205 ( talk) 05:44, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
The claim that : "Due to the minimal amount of oil in their coat, Dalmatians lack a "dog" smell and stay fairly clean." although has a citation, is not based on logic and seems to be an opinion. I have not altered the main page, as I don't have the reference book cited to check the accuracy, but I wouldn't have thought that oil would cause smell, more likely it is another reason that they stay clean, if in fact this is not a generalisation. The Wiki page for dog odor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_odor does not mention any special dalmation ability for odor. 60.234.229.163 ( talk) 02:19, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Dalmatian dog/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
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Last edited at 10:14, 24 June 2014 (UTC). Substituted at 14:37, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Why would one breed a dog to run along horses or carriages? Kent Wang 01:27, 29 May 2004 (UTC)
However, I took out this sentence: "It is also sometimes, believed to erroneously, named Smaller Danish Dog." - as it does not on the face of it seem to make sense. What does it mean? Can we sort it out and put it back? -- Nevilley 23:37, 29 May 2004 (UTC)
So, I am a Dalmatian too... ehm... and I'm not a dog. :) Dalmatians are also the inhabitants of Dalmatia, so I would like to move this page to "Dalmatian (dog)" and make "Dalmatian" a disambig page which would link to Dalmatia (for the people). If there are no objections in the next few days I'd like to proceed with that change. -- Arny 20:58, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
Ok, here's the deal: I made the change and corrected links from all articles about dogs and/or dalmatians I could find. There remain some links from userpages and articles concerning other topics. They now simply go to the disambiguation page (for which I used Maltese page as the template). This OK? -- Arny 00:17, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
Much of what's on this page is identical to that on http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/dalmatian.htm. That site states "The Material contained herein may not be reproduced without the prior written approval of the author. © 1998-2006 All Rights Reserved." 198.49.180.40 17:51, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
The article states that dalmations are "unique" in being able to smile. Does anyone have a reference to prove this is true? I have seen several dogs from other breeds do this as well, so I think a reputable source may be hard to find! -- Rachel 22:56, 3 Oct 2006
In response to the picture request, I have added two new photographs of our dog Paris (or Zagrab's Temptress at TNG), who is now retired from showing. Both pictures are from different angles, showing the front and side of the dog, both in the stacked, show conformation style. Mllefantine 01:23, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Something's wrong with the Printable Version. I can only see a chaos there.
Found this while reading the history section of the article: "...However, no historical evidence of this breed being present in the Balkans dates before the early 20th century, when they where brought there by England." This is simply not true. There is a handful of evidence that these dogs were bred in Dalmatia during the medieval ages and where used as war dogs for taking down horses by biting them at the snout. In fact, there was a whole regiment equipped with these animals that fought against the Turks in the battle of Mohacko polje. 161.53.129.244 14:04, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
There was a statement saying that no other breed has spotted markings "(except for the " Harlequin" variety of the Great Dane). This is false: a harlequin's markings are more akin to a cow's patchy black markings; patches of color are undesirable on dalmatians, with the standard calling for clearly distinguishable, round spots (key here is the distinction between spot and patch). While it's true that a certain resemblance exists between dalmatians and harlequin great danes, it should be phrased in a way that makes it clear that it's just a resemblance, and in no way are the dalmatian's spots non-unique among dogs. With apologies to Ossipewsk, I chose to remove the statement since it's a bit misleading; I'm not opposed to adding this information again but please phrase in a way that makes this issue as clear as possible. Thanks! Roadmr ( t| c) 02:07, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
So to be correct according to the standard... I guess we shouldn't have named our Dal "Patches!" But I just couldn't imagine calling her "Spot!" ;-)
I note a lot of words and phrases like "must" and "is not acceptable" in this article (e.g. "In liver Dalmatians, the nose must always be brown", "The blue eye is not acceptable in British Dalmatians"). It's written a little too much like a dog show handbook. Just because a dog does not meet the strict requirements of showing does not mean it's "not acceptable", just that it can't be shown. The whole tone strikes me, as a dog lover but not someone in any shape or form interested in the artificial world of dog shows, as somewhat arrogant, and I really think it should be rewritten in a slightly less condescending tone. By all means say what the dog show requirements are, but don't imply that dogs which are slightly outside those requirements are somehow inferior or unacceptable, any more than you would imply that human beings who are not among the "beautiful people" are somehow inferior or unacceptable. This is no more than a POV, and as in every other class of article there is no place for it in Wikipedia. -- Necrothesp 00:35, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
Can someone please change the section which details the size of the spots? To anyone outside of America, the size of a quarter or a dime means nothing. I would change it, but I have no idea of the size of these coins! Thanks KillerKat ( talk) 20:18, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
A review of Imbris' edit history reveals a nasty and chauvinistic, ill-informed user who refuses other users who have well-researched, scholarly contributions. Imbris is using this page to create an "FCI" type page, and in doing so, has reduced this forum to a political one. I see now why the content of this page has been substandard for all these years while the breed pages for other breeds has truly excelled. The nasty, selfish actions of an egotist can really defeat the entire purpose of WIKIPEDIA. Witness the Dalmatian page.
Woodrowpongo ( talk) 20:28, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
This kind of defamation deserves the ANI. I will not defend my character, we are not here for such edits, we are here to edit reliable sources and colaborate without violence. In accordance with WP you need more sources than one obscure author, and you need to learn to quote appropriately, with page numbers and links to books.google.com. Also you are a Canadian user, simpathetic to British Empire and similar. This is clear to us all. -- Imbris ( talk) 21:14, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
@Imbrs, you are a nationalist twat and an idiot of the worst kind, you should be banned from editing any article pretending to European history. Now can someone ban this idiot please. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.25.196.88 ( talk) 04:05, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
Dear Imbris and others, FCI is the only source which recognizes country of origin of the Dalmatian. No other Dalmatian authority accepts the FCI claim, because there is no research to substantiate it.
You are welcome to continue to revert the Country of Origin to Yugoslavia, if you wish. To do so is misleading and uninformed. To do so is also contrary to Wikipedia principles, which state that your propositions should be researched and verifiable.
Simply repeating chauvinistic assertions fails to meet appropriate wiki standards.
Woodrowpongo (
talk) 20:04, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Dear Mr. Imbris, You reveal your ignorance. The FCI has no such status whatsoever: it is merely one of several national standards clubs. You are clearly uninformed on the topic of dogs, dog breeding and Dalmatians. Your methods and approach are in complete violation of wiki principles. You have clearly not read wiki policies and procedures; instead you are using this wiki as a personal forum -- a purpose which is forbidden. In doing so, you are denying readers their right to accurate and unbiased quality information. Virtually each and every line of the current wiki contains factual errors which require correction. I suggest you go and write for the wiki entry "BULLDOG" and leave civilized Dalmatian people alone.
Woodrowpongo ( talk) 06:26, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
This article is awful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.174.229.189 ( talk) 04:29, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
The headings, “Appearance”, “Body”, “Size”, “Coat”, “Coloring” are basically a few of the key points of the breed standard (usually the AKC, with occasional marginal notes about other nations’ breed standard). The author has also thrown breed standard information into other sections, where it does not really belong (e.g. discussion of coat disqualifications in paragraph 1 – inappropriately specific level of detail re: one aspect of dog ownership, conformation showing). The next section, which should contain specifics, remains general.
I suggest a comprehensive review of the breed standard. This could even include the three major kennel clubs, US, UK and Canada. The subheadings are: General Appearance, Temperament, Size, Coat/Colour, Skull, Muzzle, Eyes, Ears, Neck, Topline/Body, Forequarters, Hindquarters, Tail, Feet, and Gait.
Gestation period is not specific to the Dalmatian. It makes little sense to state "Dalmatian's gestation is about 2 months". Gestation for all dogs is the same.
Woodrowpongo ( talk) 20:11, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
The accuracy of the statements in this section is uknown: unsourced, they seem to reflect a point of view, which is not an acceptable purpose for a WIKI.
Further, the content of the questionable statements is redundant, merely repeating what the author has already tried to advance in the section entitled "Training".
Here again, if there is any place for this type of statement in a wiki, then my view is that it is under a heading such as "Breed Rescue" - conditions which led to the need for breed rescues and/or tested their capacities.
Otherwise, these statements lack the neutrality which is necessary for a quality WIKI entry.
As much as one might agree with them, they have little place in an encyclopedia. Making such arguments is the job of breed rescues, humane societies, and professional dog breeders. Encyclopedias can POINT to these sources, but must not adopt their views. To do so is against WIKI policy.
Woodrowpongo (
talk) 20:11, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
The portion on Budweiser Beer and Anheuser-Busch does not belong in the section called History. As it stands, it sounds a little like an endorsement for a brewery, thus weakening the perceived reliability of this article.
I suggest the approach taken in the Old English Sheepdog wiki page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English_Sheepdog
There, the breed is also commercially associated with a paint manufacturer, Dulux. The heading used is Miscellaneous. Under the heading, the story -- which is of interest only to those who know of the Dulux dog -- is given.
I suggest hiving off the Anheuser-Busch reference in a similar fashion, as it is only a regional reference, unknown outside of the US. Other regional writers/editors would then feel welcome to add their own regional *mascots* in advertising, without the article seeming to be an endorsement of Budweiser.
Woodrowpongo (
talk) 19:41, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
PROBLEM This section does not belong in an encylopedic breed description, as its content represents an individual's Point of View, and therefore do not meet WIKI criteria. Approaches to basic training is (in most normal circumstances)are not specific to breeds.
The content is additionally suspect because it is anthropomorphized (as mentioned by an editor below), key statements being unsourced.
The author also conflates breed rescue services with training. The temptation to make the linkage between training challenges and breed rescue is understandable, but not permitted by WIKI (because it is a point of view, rather than a fact).
Further, there is nothing breed-specific about dogs being given up because owners are too lazy to train them. It is a rather offensive that the first statement about training deals with the author's view of people who get it wrong.
SUGGESTED APPROACH I suggest replacing this with a link to the WIKI section on Dog Training and Behaviour, located at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Dog_training_and_behavior
The author's interests can be accommodated, if they can be stated according to WIKI criteria (no personal points of view), by adding a section entitled, Breed Rescue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Dog_training_and_behavior
Woodrowpongo ( talk) 19:29, 22 December 2008 (UTC)
As of today (January 25, 2009), the Training sentence begins in the middle of a sentence. I don't have the knowledge to do anything about it.
John W. Kennedy ( talk) 00:05, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
I heard that Dalmatians were not good family pets and can be aggressive. Is that true or did that just come out of nowhere? I'm only wondering because I was writing an article for a newsletter and I want my facts to be true. It's a Dalmatian article for a dog newsletter.
Like all improperly handled and trained dogs, Dalmatians can be very aggressive and dangerous. Their heritage is in guarding things (carriages, horses, etc.) and they are very territorial. Dalmatians are, however, the most affectionate breed of dog I have ever come across. With proper obedience training and curbing of bad behaviors, Dalmatians make wonderful family dogs. The thing is that you can't just plop a full-grown, untrained Dalmatian into a gaggle of small children and expect it to play nice. It takes work.
This is information that has been perpetuated since bad breeding practices* and innapropriate ownership / lack of excercise training became commonplace after a certain films release led to an upsurge in popularity. Its an opinion I am often questioned over when walking my Dalmatian, and people are amazed that he adores kids and is extremely gentle. Any breed of dog if improperly trained/ stimulated/ exercised/ socialised could be aggresive or develop other personality flaws. I see no evidence that dalmatians display a worse tendency in this respect. They are certainly energetic and require stimulation or can become destructive but that is the same for many similarly active breeds. Part of the belief may also have been perpetuated as adults told children that dalmatians didnt like children to negate requests for such a pet after seeing THE FILM. This has been brought to my attention as a number of people who have queried my pets temperament came to there belief exactly this way. Dalmatians have since declined in popularity and the number of breeders has dropped greatly (certainly in my area - Ontario). More responsible breeding means generally better temperament and health of the breed, but long waiting list and a lengthy journey may be required if you want to a pet "spotter".
Gnarlyswine. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.75.172.53 ( talk) 16:36, 29 May 2008 (UTC)
They are not reccommended for families with children. http://animal.discovery.com/breed-selector/dog-breeds/non-sporting/dalmatian.html Ggrzw ( talk) 19:20, 13 May 2013 (UTC)
This page is looking really bad. The formatting is appauling! The use of titles, separaters and bold font is completely irregular. Also the section on Dalmatian training is extremely biased towards the author's own personal opinian of dog training. It is unprofessional and does not belong in an encyclopedic entry. There is no specific kind of "Dalamtian" training. Also, what happened to the old "Talk" page? There were several discussions that were valuable and should not have been deleted. This page a mess! Mllefantine 20:34, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
I have been editing the pages with great care (i.e. only the 'Training' and 'Other Issues section'. My statements are primarily from the Dalmatians welfare point of view than a seller's point of view. In case you are deleting statements or modifying them, please indicate here, by way of discussion, clearly why you choose to do so. In particular, I would appreciate it if the first sentence in the training section is not deleted. Please sign up to one of the Dalamation rescues and see the plight of these lives brought upon by ignorance of the facts in the training section.
- Some of the spellings in there might seem a tad strange; they are not incorrect.
192.100.124.218 12:00, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
What are your thoughts on this statement in the "Training": "Dalmatians have extremely sensitive personalities and will not forget ill-treatment and ill-treatment can and certainly will break a dog's spirit and a Dalmatian's - certainly so." I feel it's not really specific to Dalmatians. I don't think they are any more sesitive then any other breed--in fact, from owning three and working with numerous others, I would have to say they are extremely stubborn and strong willed and much LESS sensitive then any other breed that I have owned or trained. They are not a particularily willing-to-please breed. Obviously I am NOT condoning ill treatment of any breed, I just don't believe this information is specific to Dalmatians--at all! I feel it is leading people astray as to the typical personality of the breed. Would anyone object if I altered this? Mllefantine 19:31, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Looking at reference number 10, it actually states that Dominicans (the order of Catholic priests) are the "Watchdogs of the Lord", not Dalmatians. And the link between dalmatians and dominicans is weak at best.
"Blue eyes are regarded as a fault by many organisations because Dalmatians with blue eyes are entirely deaf in the ear(s) on the same side(s) as the blue eyes." Any sources/evidence of this??? Back it up or it should be removed ... 67.161.186.85 06:05, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
There is a higher percentage of blue eyed dogs that are deaf , however certainly not all, this applies to a number of breeds though not just dalmatian. The gene causing deafness is also unfortunaltely linked to the spots so cant be bred out without introducing another breed lineage .
Something like this has /is being tried by the backcross project to eradicate another common dalmation problem with the urinary tract
http://www.dalmatianheritage.com/about/Seltzer.htm
unfortunately AKC wont recognize these dogs currently.
216.75.172.53 (
talk) 16:48, 29 May 2008 (UTC)Gnarlyswine
Just a few minutes ago one editor placed two images into the article in good faith, and another editor immediately removed them, citing as the reason that they had been removed before. I see no discussion here or in the archive relating to a discussion that there are too many images in this article. I don't think that good faith edits that don't damage the content of the article should be reverted without a bit of discussion. I do think that it would be nice to have photos relevant to the sections they are in, e.g. a Dal in the obedience ring for the training section and one with a firefighter in the association with firefighters section. Perhaps we could even get a picture of a dog actually coaching? — Elipongo ( Talk| contribs) 03:26, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
These are the two images I posted that were immediately removed with no discussion. The user informed me that this is an encyclopedia, not a pet gallery. Can I get some thoughts on whether these should be permitted on the page? I realize there are getting to be a lot of pictures, but the one is a very good head shot, and the second depicts a Dalmation close up, from the front angle. I feel these are more encyclopedic then some of the others. For example the Dalmatian in the woods is a great pic, but it's difficult to see the dog because the picture is at a distance and the harness is distracting. Also, the dogs in the pictures are show quality animals, which I think is important in an encyclopedic entry about a purebred breed. I agree that it would be nice to get some pictures of Dalmatians coaching, or doing agility, etc. Mllefantine 19:16, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Image:A black-spotted female dalmatian.jpg
Image:Black_spotted_female_dalmatian.jpg to this one: Image:A black-spotted female dalmatian.jpg As long as they're both encyclopedic and illustrate the subject, I believe the first one (which was removed) is more pleasing than the second one (quite clearly just another "my pet in the kitchen" shot). I'm also a long-time watcher of this page and I'm puzzled by the removal of the first, a (IMHO) better picture which, to boot, had been in this article a lot longer, while keeping what I consider an inferior picture. Roadmr ( t| c) 22:27, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Can someone please put a picture of a lemon spotted dalmatian on here? They may now be show ring acceptable dogs, but it would be nice to see them.
Second shot - of female dog isnt really a good example of breed standard - shows currently popular "ghost face" patterning - very white facy , lots of heavy black on neck shoulders. Lots of merged spots dont actually meet the breed standard well so a more evenly spotted dog would be better. 216.75.172.53 ( talk) 16:51, 29 May 2008 (UTC)Gnarlyswine
I know that this is not an AKC breed standard page but feel that it would be best if the pictures in some way better represented the typical breed , and that is a white dog with black spots as the vast majority of %. The foremost picture being of a liver spot and rather a high % just doesnt seem appropriate. By all means I would add examples (including the lemon , and maybe long haired) in a varients section. Likewise with the association which is a strong identifier with the breed , a coaching , and fire engine shot would seem appropriate. My personal feeling is that the Budweiser connection is quite appropriate also as despite others feeling of this being to US - centric , they have featured heavily in superbowl adds which reaches a huge global audience. I became first aware of the Budweiser / Dalmatian connection whilst still residing in europe so do not feel an example would be innapropriate. - Gnarlyswine — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
216.220.56.82 (
talk) 20:00, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
I think it would be good to know how old the puppies (with spots) are, to get an impression on how fast the dots appear. -- Murata ( talk) 22:10, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
Temple Grandin noted in Animals in Translation that dalmatians suffer from temperament problems due to the chemical whose lack causes the distinctive coloration also being a calming hormone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.69.118.1 ( talk) 00:19, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
i like the 101 dalmation written by dodie smith —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.27.7.6 ( talk) 23:27, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
I have edited this article to remove the improper NPOV and citation tagging added by Woodrowpongo. If this user or any other wishes to reinstate these changes, please use proper NPOV templates for the article, and proper formatting for tagging unsourced claims. -- Trunkalunk ( talk) 05:21, 26 December 2008 (UTC)
Kidney and bladder stones
The section called "Kidney and bladder stones" contains the following inaccurate information. Uricase: the article makes two contradictory statements (1) that the uric acid problem is a fact of liver transport, not absence of the enzyme and (2) that the enzyme is not present in the gene pool at all. As for the pathology, the enzyme is actually present; the problem is with re-absorption by the kidneys.
Crosses to English Pointers: this section makes the mistake of presenting itself as neutral when it is actually a scientist's as-yet unproven hypothesis. It also reflects a misunderstanding of the mechanism leading to urinary stones in Dalmatians.
The article states"the 'normal' gene for uricase is not present in the breed's gene pool at all. Therefore, there is no possibility of eliminatring hyperuricemia among pure-bred [sic] Dalmatians. The only possible solution o this problem must then be crossing Dalmatians with other breeds in order to reintroduce the 'normal uricase gene."
The section then goes on to describe the "Dalmatian-Pointer Backcross Project" as well as a history of internal business of the Dalmatian Club of Canada with respect to the backcross progeny.
Gout is a secondary complication that would only afflict a small percentage of the small percentage of Dalmatians that suffer from manifest symptoms of high uric acid. Gout therefore is overspecialized as an encyclopedia entry on general information on the breed. Therefore, mentioning gout and its treatment is not necessary, and may be misleading.
RECOMMENDATIONS
Woodrowpongo ( talk) 14:25, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
FYI -- I have built the footnotes to go along with all statements in this section, but not yet converted them to wki.
During digestion, most vertebrates convert into uric acid the substances in food called purines. Uric acid is then converted by the enzyme called uricase into allantoin before being expelled in the urine. The Dalmatian is the only breed of dog whose urine does not convert the uric acid into allantoin. Earlier, it was thought that Dalmatians lack the enzyme, uricase. It is now understood that uric acid is not resorbed by the kidney tubules in Dalmatians as it is in other dogs. As a consquence, urinary uric acid production in Dalmatians is about twenty times higher than that of normal canines.
Uric acid acting on the epithelial cells in the bladder wall causes bladder stones. This leads to the formation of urate crystals. It is possible to have urine samples checked by your veterinarian for cystal formation. This condition is called urolithiasis. Eventually, the crystals from the salts of uric acid join together to form sand, stones or calculi in in the urine. Signs of urinary problems include: frequent and difficult urination, excessive straining, passing little urine, blood in urine, loss of "housebreaking" and behavioural changes. All Dalmatians are susceptible to urinary stones.
Urinary stones form in the bladder. Sometimes, “gravel” will be passed in the urine. Sometimes, in acute cases, small stones or sludge will pile up in the bladder. The accumulation reduces the capacity of the dogs bladder. The accumulation may actually block passage of urine from the bladder. This condition requires surgery to remove the accumulation of sludge.
Complete blockage of the urinary tract by one or more stones can occur. This occurs more often in middle-aged males than bitches. Sometimes a stone will be lodged in the urethra and cause great pain. It can be fatal if not treated promptly. Some experts estimate 20% of male Dalmatians will suffer life-threatening urinary blockage.
Dalmatian owners should take care to seek out a diet which does not contain proteins high in purines. Organ meats -- especially liver, and beef -- are major sources of purines and should be avoided. Lamb, poultry, eggs and most vegetables are proteins which are lower in purines.
Water dilutes the uric acid, postponing the precipitation of cystals leading to stone formation. Adequate water should be provided at all times. One scientist has stated that, because of the importance of hydration, feeding dry food to Dalmatians should be avoided. In the alternative, the dry food can be soaked. Dalmatians should also be given frequent opportunities to urinate in order to flush their urinary tracts of any crystals.
It is thought that one of the foundation dogs from which the Dalmatian originally arose also carried a genetic mutation for the uric acid defect. It has been hypothesized that attempts to breed out the problem have failed because all Dalmatians carry the same defect. In the early1970s, a University of Indiana geneticist tried a new approach, by bringing new genetic material into the breed. He bred a champion Pointer to a purebred Dalmatian and then bred subsequent generations back to purebred Dalmatians. By the fifth generation, the dogs were reportedly indistinguishable from other purebred Dalmatians in all but one aspect: about half of the offspring had normal uric acid levels. As of 2008, there are a reported twelve generations descended from the original Dalmatian-Pointer cross. Controversy reigns as to whether crossing the Dalmatian with another breed is the proper approach to the uric acid defect
FURTHER READING:
Dalmatian Uric Acid Defect and Genetics - http://www.luadalmatians.com/Basics.html
The Dalmatian Heritage Project: http://www.dalmatianheritage.com/about/schaible_research.htm
First of all discussions go below one other.
And now let me explain the Statutes of the FCI, latest accepted in Acapulco on May 22nd, 2007
Some definitions: Breed Standard: Ideal cynological description of a breed. National canine organisation: An all-breed national canine organisation recognised by the FCI.
My comment: the breed standards of the country of origin is the one that superseed the translations to four official languages of the FCI, French, English, German and Spanish.
No comment neccessary. Even to the editor based in Canada Privy Council Office.
No comment neccessary.
Imbris ( talk) 21:56, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
This article focuses too much on the AKC's standards for the dogs. I came to the page to learn about the dog, not what is or is not acceptable in the show ring. I think that all of the AKC's standards should be gathered and put together into one section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.32.157.205 ( talk) 05:44, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
The claim that : "Due to the minimal amount of oil in their coat, Dalmatians lack a "dog" smell and stay fairly clean." although has a citation, is not based on logic and seems to be an opinion. I have not altered the main page, as I don't have the reference book cited to check the accuracy, but I wouldn't have thought that oil would cause smell, more likely it is another reason that they stay clean, if in fact this is not a generalisation. The Wiki page for dog odor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_odor does not mention any special dalmation ability for odor. 60.234.229.163 ( talk) 02:19, 31 July 2011 (UTC)
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