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The last version said "The term 'Dai' means Heaven, or Sky." User 202.57.165.90 corrected that to "The term 'Dai' means free." Neither of these claims was substantiated and I'd like to see sources for that. Babelfisch 01:29, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I'm very interested in learning about the Dai traditional religion that's mentioned in the article. Gringo300 07:31, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Should this be linked to the Shan article? Or maybe even merged with it? Or are they actually different groups? Carl Kenner 19:35, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
ethnologue has Tai Pong listed as a dialect of Tai Nua. Abstrakt
Dai people simply refer to those who call themselves Dai (IPA: [tai/d̥ai]), and in English, "those nuclear Tai peoples who call themselves Tai". Those " Tai people" mentioned in this article, such as Zhuang, Hlai, accutually do not call themselves "Tai". They have their own names such as Bouxcuengh, etc., and when mentioned as one group, then prefer them name Rauz (a.k.a. Raeuz, Lao, Rau, Liao). The name "Dai" is NOT a Han-Chinese cultural concept but a national self-will of Dai.
Even the name "Dai" is not Hanyu Pinyin of Chinese language, for the letter "D" merely refers a tenuis consonant (IPA: [d̥]). It's true that the Royal Thai General System of Transcription use "d/t/th" to distinguish IPA [d], [d̥] and [tʰ], but there's no rule that all D̥ai people should follow that. In China, Dai people use "dd/d/t" to distinguish them (and it seems this is statistically more scientific because among languages of Dai [tʰ] occurs more infrequently than [d]).
If “Dai people” is an umbrella term, the term “Tai people” suit it more appropriately. Most groups under “Tai people” do not actually call themselves Tai. Besides Zhuang and Hlai, Buyei, Nung, Kra peoples and Kam-Sui peoples do not have traditions to call themselves Tai. Basically the northern part of Tai and Lao people call themselves Rauz/Raeuz/Lao/Liao while the southern part call themselves Dai/Tai/Thai. So it would be better to say “Rau-Dai peoples (or Lao-Tai peoples) + Kra peoples + Kam-Sui peoples” or “Kradai peoples” rather than “Tai peoples”. The term “Tai people” might be imposed by Thai-nationalists and is not accepted by all Kra-Dai speaking peoples.
I do not have a problem with the article pointing out the artificiality of the Chinese official usage, but I do have a problem with the fact that the section dealing with this is almost incomprehensible. Could it be rewritten so that the issues become comprehensible? For instance, by discussing the range of terms that do exist and what their coverage is. Something like:
Tai peoples: Ethno-linguistic category covering xxxx.
Tai: Peoples referring to themselves as Tai, includes xxxx.
Dai: Chinese ethnic category, refers to Tai-speaking groups within China (in Yunnan).
Etc.
The main problem with Chinese ethnological classifications is that they are concerned with 'Chinese sovereignty'. The ethnic groups of China are part of the 'Zhonghua Minzu', and the Chinese authorities are mainly concerned with asserting their place within the Zhonghua Minzu as part of the Chinese state on Chinese sovereign territory, playing down their connections to coethnics who are not part of the Zhonghua Minzu (i.e., are not subject to Chinese sovereignty). Chinese usage thus needs to be elucidated, but not in the controversial and confusing way that is presented here.
Therefore, a paragraph (as suggested above) setting out the Chinese usage, a paragraph setting out the usage of the peoples themselves, and a paragraph setting out linguists' usage (which extends to the Zhuang, it appears) would be in order.
61.49.173.170 ( talk) 23:13, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 ( talk) 00:43, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
That would make them about 2/3 of the Thai population. Is there an extra 0 in that figure? Cameron Nedland ( talk) 14:21, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
What's the reference for Tai/Dai dialect in Java, Indonesia? This is something I'm not familiar with, and I am from Indonesia. Thanks, XoXo ( talk) 14:02, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
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Hello,
most broad groupings are lacking a wikilink. What should be done?
Kind regards, -- Sarcelles ( talk) 10:33, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
Please add about Dai Nationalism and separatism-- Kaiyr ( talk) 07:36, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
There are also Dai people living in Pu'er City. Please fix. 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 03:28, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
There are also Dai people living in Pu'er City. Please fix. 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 04:21, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
What does "help relieve heat and heat" mean? 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 04:21, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 18:24, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
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The last version said "The term 'Dai' means Heaven, or Sky." User 202.57.165.90 corrected that to "The term 'Dai' means free." Neither of these claims was substantiated and I'd like to see sources for that. Babelfisch 01:29, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I'm very interested in learning about the Dai traditional religion that's mentioned in the article. Gringo300 07:31, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Should this be linked to the Shan article? Or maybe even merged with it? Or are they actually different groups? Carl Kenner 19:35, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
ethnologue has Tai Pong listed as a dialect of Tai Nua. Abstrakt
Dai people simply refer to those who call themselves Dai (IPA: [tai/d̥ai]), and in English, "those nuclear Tai peoples who call themselves Tai". Those " Tai people" mentioned in this article, such as Zhuang, Hlai, accutually do not call themselves "Tai". They have their own names such as Bouxcuengh, etc., and when mentioned as one group, then prefer them name Rauz (a.k.a. Raeuz, Lao, Rau, Liao). The name "Dai" is NOT a Han-Chinese cultural concept but a national self-will of Dai.
Even the name "Dai" is not Hanyu Pinyin of Chinese language, for the letter "D" merely refers a tenuis consonant (IPA: [d̥]). It's true that the Royal Thai General System of Transcription use "d/t/th" to distinguish IPA [d], [d̥] and [tʰ], but there's no rule that all D̥ai people should follow that. In China, Dai people use "dd/d/t" to distinguish them (and it seems this is statistically more scientific because among languages of Dai [tʰ] occurs more infrequently than [d]).
If “Dai people” is an umbrella term, the term “Tai people” suit it more appropriately. Most groups under “Tai people” do not actually call themselves Tai. Besides Zhuang and Hlai, Buyei, Nung, Kra peoples and Kam-Sui peoples do not have traditions to call themselves Tai. Basically the northern part of Tai and Lao people call themselves Rauz/Raeuz/Lao/Liao while the southern part call themselves Dai/Tai/Thai. So it would be better to say “Rau-Dai peoples (or Lao-Tai peoples) + Kra peoples + Kam-Sui peoples” or “Kradai peoples” rather than “Tai peoples”. The term “Tai people” might be imposed by Thai-nationalists and is not accepted by all Kra-Dai speaking peoples.
I do not have a problem with the article pointing out the artificiality of the Chinese official usage, but I do have a problem with the fact that the section dealing with this is almost incomprehensible. Could it be rewritten so that the issues become comprehensible? For instance, by discussing the range of terms that do exist and what their coverage is. Something like:
Tai peoples: Ethno-linguistic category covering xxxx.
Tai: Peoples referring to themselves as Tai, includes xxxx.
Dai: Chinese ethnic category, refers to Tai-speaking groups within China (in Yunnan).
Etc.
The main problem with Chinese ethnological classifications is that they are concerned with 'Chinese sovereignty'. The ethnic groups of China are part of the 'Zhonghua Minzu', and the Chinese authorities are mainly concerned with asserting their place within the Zhonghua Minzu as part of the Chinese state on Chinese sovereign territory, playing down their connections to coethnics who are not part of the Zhonghua Minzu (i.e., are not subject to Chinese sovereignty). Chinese usage thus needs to be elucidated, but not in the controversial and confusing way that is presented here.
Therefore, a paragraph (as suggested above) setting out the Chinese usage, a paragraph setting out the usage of the peoples themselves, and a paragraph setting out linguists' usage (which extends to the Zhuang, it appears) would be in order.
61.49.173.170 ( talk) 23:13, 27 January 2013 (UTC)
I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 ( talk) 00:43, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
That would make them about 2/3 of the Thai population. Is there an extra 0 in that figure? Cameron Nedland ( talk) 14:21, 13 November 2015 (UTC)
What's the reference for Tai/Dai dialect in Java, Indonesia? This is something I'm not familiar with, and I am from Indonesia. Thanks, XoXo ( talk) 14:02, 31 May 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Dai people. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 08:28, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
Hello,
most broad groupings are lacking a wikilink. What should be done?
Kind regards, -- Sarcelles ( talk) 10:33, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
Please add about Dai Nationalism and separatism-- Kaiyr ( talk) 07:36, 15 May 2018 (UTC)
There are also Dai people living in Pu'er City. Please fix. 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 03:28, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
There are also Dai people living in Pu'er City. Please fix. 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 04:21, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
What does "help relieve heat and heat" mean? 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 04:21, 22 July 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 18:24, 15 August 2022 (UTC)