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The two references to "Mission to Mars" are confusing; are they the same movie? Did the movie directly reference Cydonia or not? They should be merged.
I think it is important to have a section dedicated to Cydonia in media. I can think of a few examples: ( Mission to Mars and Battle of the Planets (Invader Zim) and Where the Buggalo Roam (Futurama). If someone can start the section and add these and others to it that would be great. 71.225.125.176 13:36, 16 January 2007 (UTC) -Stexe
Cydonia is also a primary focus in Ian Douglas's book "Semper Mars" Dtheweather9 ( talk) 02:41, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
It is proposed to merge The Face on Mars into Cydonia as both are essentially duplicates, and the former article gives undue weight to the crackpottery of Richard Hoagland. Dr Zak 23:25, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Agree. Merge them! ^_^-- Havermayer 17:31, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
do it, do it Kennykane 05:14, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Agreed. There is too much duplication. MrStonky 02:03, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Do it-- 86.42.47.14 15:05, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Folks,
There is a new pic by Mars Express here (in Portuguese) -- Pinnecco 10:54, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
This is titled Cydonia and yet only the Face is mentioned ? I would like to see more edits about the "City" and "D&M". Cydonia is also interesting geologically. There is also a "Square" feature to the South of Cydonia main. Even though these features remain unproven from a Scientific standpoint, there is a STRONG counter current to the prevailing "there's nothing to see here" argument. In my opinion this article has fallen prey to political editing. There are MAJOR holes in the references. For example see my addition of the ref to the Carlotto paper that shows that the Face still looks like a face at different lighting angles. I know I may fall prey to those who say that any Cydonia Face "believer" has not got any facts to add to an article. An attitude sadly started in reaction to the likes of Richard C Hoagland, who I regard as having seriously damaged the field (I'm with the Bad Astronomer on that one!). But not all Mars researchers follow the same methodologies, or think in the same way, or think that NASA is a "conspiracy" (ABSOLUTE NONSENSE in my opinion!). The Face and wider Cydonia has generated some very intense speculations and research that should be recorded in the article in my opinion... EVEN if unproven or flawed. Wikipedia is not the place to "prove" anything, one way or the other. Thankyou! DJ Barney 23:11, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
1. Article states that "after detailed analysis NASA stated that Face on Mars is natural formation".
The reason I have removed part of this sentence (about "detailed analysis" is because I believe that Wikipedia is (and should be) stating documented facts. NASA has never conducted any scientific research on the feature in Cydonia region. In fact, it has always dismissed even the slightest possibility of it being artificial. It stated without ANY analysis during press conference after the Face was discovered in 70's that it was an "optical illusion". It also added that "on the next photo taken just hours after the first one was taken, the facial resemblance of this feature dissapeared because of different light conditions". In fact, that second photo NEVER EXISTED and NASA simply lied. All I want to achieve here is that NASA has never done anything to prove/disprove the artificiality theory, apart from stating that "it looks natural" (the Face). On the other side, many scientists (including Carlotto) produced numerous scientific papers on this subject treating it in a scientific way.
2. The Badlands Guardian Geological Feature.
It is stated that it is a "similiar feature". Since when we know that the Face is natural / artificial ? Wiki is about facts, so I believe this comparison is not appropriate at all. Similarly, if I was to include sentence: "A similar feature on Earth is the Sphinx, which resembles a human head wearing a headress" - surely it would have caused anger. Because it is not similiar, nothing is similiar to the Face as we know nothing about its origin.
3. "Today, it (The Face)is generally understood to be an optical illusion.
Generally understood by whom? NASA, of course and millinons of other people. Equally it is generally understood that the Face is artificial - by many credible scientists and millions of other people as well. By adding "generally understood by mainstream science" I am simply stating the fact. Also by adding sentence about other scientists believing it is artificial - I simply make it more ballanced. Since when NASA is Earths "oracle" on Mars? Whatever NASA says goes (as I can clearly see in this article about the Face. ). This is bias behaviour and calling non-NASA-believers "pseudoscientists" shows it all very clearly, that article is one-sided.
Thanks —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.203.82.194 ( talk • contribs).
The new picture for the face on Mars in question was processed by NASA to make it look as if there wasn't anything special there. This was proven by noted and reputable astronomer Van Flandern (see his videos on You Tube) and others. They also clearly demonstrate another face on Mars as well as many other structures, including pyramids, that are 90% certain of being man-made. The question is not their artificiality as this has been well established but who made them? Mars is too small to harbour complex life, at least not any that would resemble us in stature. Yet it is claimed they are our ancestors. Also, it is probably a former moon but the parent planet is supposed to be too large to support complex life. Go figure. As well, fringe hypotheses are often right, like heliocentrism, the round Earth, and comets as celestial instead of atmospheric. It took some 2000 years for heliocentrism to be generally accepted. So the orthodox view is often often wrong but conservatives on both the left and right want to maintain the status quo and the conventional paradigm even if it's proven wrong. Scientists should have a more liberal and progressive attitude. Mars Bars. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bpell ( talk • contribs) 11:50, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
I've restored some of Plumbago's edits per WP:WEIGHT. Rather than edit-warring about it the solution is simple: Find sources that suggest different treatment. Minority viewpoints should only be given as much treatment as warrented, which may be no treatment at all for viewpoints held by a tiny minority. -- Ronz 16:59, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
Needs removing IMO, reads very poorly and not from any recognised organisation as far as I can see sbandrews ( t) 14:04, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
I've left messages at talk page of all the editors that appear to have been edit-warring about this article. I'd like to resolve this through discussion, though the opinion of an outside party may be necessary to get consensus. How do regular editors of this article want to proceed?-- Chaser - T 21:19, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
I've just trimmed the "Cydonia in Popular Culture" section down to a single sentence and a reference. The sentence notes the frequent mention of the Face on Mars in popular culture, while the reference cites a few choice examples over a range of forms of popular culture (specifically films, TV, videogames and music). I've trimmed these examples to two per medium (there's only one film to my certain knowledge), and may have possibly not picked the best examples (though I'd like to think that most people would trim the Power Rangers wherever possible). I've supplied dates to the choices to make it clear that this isn't a completely flash-in-the-pan phenomenon (i.e. mentioned immediately after the Viking picture was published but never since). Anyway, I hope the result satisfies both pro- and con-trivia camps (or, more likely, is something that we can grudgingly agree on). Cheers, -- Plumbago 10:24, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
I think that the link you've deleted >>> Why the "Face on Mars" wasn't made by Aliens >>> should be added again to the main article since it give good reasons against the popular myth of an alien-made sculpture (why other opinions' links and debates are allowed on the main page?) PS - sorry for my ghostNASA article about the alternative ("Direct"-like) ESAS rockets DEATH, but it's (simply) the reality of facts... :-) Gaetanomarano 14:57, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
1. if you delete my link, then you must delete the full article, since, until we will go on Mars and study the "face", EVERY single word written in the article (or in the articles linked) is just a matter of OPINION
2. since english is not my mother language, I'm aware it's not perfect, but, so far, thousands english and non-english peoples have read my website and blog (and 4000+ posts and comments on other space forums and blogs) and actually UNDERSTANDED them ...if you want only PERFECT english articles and links on Wikipedia, that sounds like a sort of USA/UK "intellectual dictatorship" since we would read ONLY american and england texts/point of views
3. since you (Wiki admin) are so fast and zealant to delete an innocent link (with some thought about the Face on Mars) in MINUTES, I really don't understand why you still leave (TEN+ months after it was published!!!) the "Direct Launcher" full article (and dozens texts and links about this concept in other articles) despite it's only a PRIVATE, PERSONAL, COMMERCIAL, NON-OFFICIAL, NON-NASA, ADVERTISING, UNEXISTING, "PHOTOSHOP & WORD" proposal (now DEAD, like all other alternative concepts, since NASA has assigned all contracts to develop the Ares-I "stick") ...WHEN you will delete the "Direct" article, texts and links??? ...why the same question (posted several times on many Wiki discussions' pages) have had no answer so far??? ...nor the "quick-as-my-links" "Direct" article deletion?) Gaetanomarano 16:45, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
The supposed face found on Mars was nothing other than a publicity stunt to revive public interrest in a program that has very, very...little to offer to the average person out there. Thus, by "enhancing" the images from 1988, NASA community has managed to stirr the masses in such a way, call it a comspiracy that needs to be INVESTIGATED, and resolved once and for all. Thus NASA conveniantly managed to conn us all in order to pay for yet another multi-billion boondoggel pet project. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.68.90.28 ( talk • contribs)
I don't understand why details of the "discovery" of the non-existing face deserve any attention at all, let alone the amount just added. If we cannot verify this with a reliable and independent source demonstrating it's importance, I think it should be removed per WP:NPOV. -- Ronz ( talk) 20:48, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
UFOTV: Life On MARS-New Scientific Evidence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u-20g7Bwdw
-- Heckubus4 ( talk) 15:51, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
The article should mention where the name came from. That's the only reason I looked at this >_> -- Snaxe/fow ( talk) 19:36, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
"There's a face on Mars Looking upward at the stars . . ."
When you first heard about the "face on Mars" or saw the photo, I bet you knew perfectly well NASA would later furnish more photos from different angles to prove there was no face on Mars at all. Am I right? Of course I'm right.
But you also knew that IF (just for the sake of argument) there really was a face on Mars put there by intelligent beings, NASA would just as surely have come forth with similar photos to prove it was no such thing. Except in that case the photos would be faked. There's no way NASA would share such knowledge with little old you and me; they wouldn't want us to know. So my disbelief in the "face on Mars" does not derive from NASA's subsequent photos. Instead, it derives from my deep seated prejudice against the idea that there is intelligent life on Mars, a prejudice that derives from my exposure to scientific thinking.
Actually, the Galle happy face looks a lot more artificial to me--two dots and a semicircular mouth! Galle is actually easier to credit as an artificial structure than Cydonia is! Tom 129.93.65.103 ( talk) 21:39, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
If it were discovered that there was a face on Mars placed there by intelligent beings, NASA would be thrilled beyond imagination to publish this. Funding problems for NASA would be a thing of the past.-- RLent ( talk) 18:06, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Hi. Just a quick one. What I have noticed is that anyone who wants to change something in the Mars Face article is immediately reverted to the previous, "correct" version of the article. Sadly, seems like this article is managed by one, maybe two main contributors (namely Plumbago) who do not allow ANY changes to the article unless approved by themselves. This situation results in the situation, where we have one Policeman who defends his point of view in the article, mainly defending himself by using words like "pseudoscience". In fact, it is NASA who did not perform any scientific research about this subject and who claims that Face is a natural hill because "it looks like a hill".
What needs to be understood is that the subject still remains open, and anything that is said about this strange feature is a speculation. In the article, it says that "today it is generally accepted to be an optical illusion" (the Face). This is questionable, because I know of many scientists who think opposite. So in fact it is not "generally accepted" but it is "thought by some" to be an optical illusion (some + Plumbago). The fact is that the face has always been considered as "trick of light and shadow" and NASA was very eager to dismiss it's potential (to the point where NASA has LIED about the existence of another photo of he Face where in fact it never existed).
So, to summarise my point, please be more objective to the subject and allow a little window for the "opposition" here and don't treat this article as your own by not allowing ANY constructive changes to it. By changing a sentence "today it is generally accepted to be an optical illusion" to something along the lines of "it is considered by some to be an illusion" makes it more clear to the people who are not familiar with the subject thus allowing them to understand, that it was not proven (the Face) to be an illusion (quite opposite, as various experiments show). Also comparing the Face to the "similiar" features on Earth is misleading - even if the Face is natural, it still remains on another world where everything we know is much different than here on Earth. The face is very original, there is nothing like it in the whole solar system (forgetting about almost exactly the same feature from Iran, which was proven to be artificial man-made structure [3]) and it should not be dismissed because NASA says so. That's it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.203.82.194 ( talk) 10:20, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
"......that pictures unambiguously show it as a crumbly mountain......". The Nazca Lines are just a bunch of rocks up close. A TV screen is just random pixels up close. Anything by Georges Seurat is just a bunch of coloured junk up close. All are different when viewed from the perspective they were intended to be viewed from. Maybe this is also true of 'The Face' ? Also, IF it were of intelligent origin, then who knows what it might have looked like before thousands/millions of years of Martian weathering ? Unfortunately, any published article that doesn't conform to the 'majority consensus' is either immediately deleted or mocked on Wikipedia as pseudo-science, or decried as the ravings of fringe lunatics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.25.180.26 ( talk) 08:49, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Editor 79.177.140.189 recently added the following text to the article ...
While the "first published" portion isn't entirely accurate (NASA published the images shortly after it acquired them; see the cited press statement), the reference to Ancient Astronauts is very useful. However, given that 30 years have passed, the magazine is difficult to find information about. I have managed to track this source down, but it's only a fleeting mention in another book. Anyway, if someone could provide any more information, that'd be great.
In the meantime, I've amended the added text to remove the "first published" portion (and the potentially POV "little public fanfare") and to put the information in a bit more context ...
Cheers, -- PLUMBAGO 08:10, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
To: Plumbago: I'm new to Wikipedia so apologies if I am doing this wrong. I was the editor of Ancient Astronauts (Howard Smukler) and got the first batch of pictures directly from the NASA press liaison. I immediately dropped them into an article of Ancient Astronauts that was literally shipping out the door that day. I also sent copies to all the New York media and my contacts at the National Enquirer and Star, then I made follow-up calls. I was convinced this was picture was really HOT. Nobody responded to either the picture or my calls. The magazine was on the stands within a month, I believe we had a circulation of about 250,000 which at that time was the largest for any similar magazine. I never saw the Face on Mars in any other publication until about 1980 when the more detailed analysis started coming out. When I met Hoagland some years later he acknowledged that he had seen my initial articles and I was happy to I gave him copies for his research. Not only would I like to have my name cited in the Wikipedia article, I do think it is important to note that the initial publication of the pictures was largely without public fanfare. In fact, I could not even get the National Inquirer/Star to pick up the story and as you know, they would print anything. Hope this clarifies the reasoning behind my edit. User: hsmukler 10:31PM August 12, 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hsmukler ( talk • contribs) 19:33, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
To: Plumbago: The article with editorial and pictures appeared in the January, 1977 issue of Ancient Astronauts, page 26, titled "Dramatic Photos of Mars: the Home of the Gods." The magazine would have been on the stands in early December, after I received about 200 photographs directly from NASA public relations department in about Sept, 1976. I don't recall seeing any other public publication of the "face" until the end of 1979 and remember being very disappointed that I could not convince my contacts at the National Enquirer or the Star that this picture was for real. I received about 100 letters to the editor in response to the article, but most of them thought the pyramids on Mars were the really significant discovery. While I agree with you that its difficult to judge the public's initial reaction, I am convinced that this picture was a "sleeper" and did not really catch fire for about 5 years. I appreciate your adding my name back to the entry. submitted by Howard Smukler, August 21, 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hsmukler ( talk • contribs) 21:34, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Would it be possible for someone to create an image indicating exactly where this area is on the surface of Mars. There's some indication of latitude and longitude in the article, but a picture is worth a thousand words, right? ;) -- SandChigger ( talk) 04:19, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Hi again. Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear enough - the references I removed don't point to pages that reference the D&M Pyramid, at least not by name. That's why I removed them (actually, I commented them out; they're still there). Anyway, maybe you were referring to a subpage from the links. Can you maybe point the references to there instead? Cheers, --PLUMBAGO 19:02, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Retrieved from " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Logos5557"
Hi. You're right in that two of the three references do not mention D&M pyramid by name. However, first one (the one currently being number 7) does so on the picture. The other two shows the images of the Cydonia taken by different spacecraft, without mentioning D&M pyramid by name. If they have to, as per some wikipedia rule, I don't have any objection to that-- Logos5557 ( talk) 19:39, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
An article, rated B-Class, on features in cydonia should have included data about the sizes. Length, width, heigth? Aren't there such information provided by the sources cited in the article? Perhaps Google Mars may help with this.. Logos5557 ( talk) 18:34, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Tried to edit the reference list to repair a broken link, but i only get a link or something? Here is the correct link for the reference to the MOLA paper: http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/1998/1998GL900116.shtml maye ( talk) 14:41, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
The two references to "Mission to Mars" are confusing; are they the same movie? Did the movie directly reference Cydonia or not? They should be merged.
I think it is important to have a section dedicated to Cydonia in media. I can think of a few examples: ( Mission to Mars and Battle of the Planets (Invader Zim) and Where the Buggalo Roam (Futurama). If someone can start the section and add these and others to it that would be great. 71.225.125.176 13:36, 16 January 2007 (UTC) -Stexe
Cydonia is also a primary focus in Ian Douglas's book "Semper Mars" Dtheweather9 ( talk) 02:41, 31 October 2008 (UTC)
It is proposed to merge The Face on Mars into Cydonia as both are essentially duplicates, and the former article gives undue weight to the crackpottery of Richard Hoagland. Dr Zak 23:25, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
Agree. Merge them! ^_^-- Havermayer 17:31, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
do it, do it Kennykane 05:14, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
Agreed. There is too much duplication. MrStonky 02:03, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
Do it-- 86.42.47.14 15:05, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Folks,
There is a new pic by Mars Express here (in Portuguese) -- Pinnecco 10:54, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
This is titled Cydonia and yet only the Face is mentioned ? I would like to see more edits about the "City" and "D&M". Cydonia is also interesting geologically. There is also a "Square" feature to the South of Cydonia main. Even though these features remain unproven from a Scientific standpoint, there is a STRONG counter current to the prevailing "there's nothing to see here" argument. In my opinion this article has fallen prey to political editing. There are MAJOR holes in the references. For example see my addition of the ref to the Carlotto paper that shows that the Face still looks like a face at different lighting angles. I know I may fall prey to those who say that any Cydonia Face "believer" has not got any facts to add to an article. An attitude sadly started in reaction to the likes of Richard C Hoagland, who I regard as having seriously damaged the field (I'm with the Bad Astronomer on that one!). But not all Mars researchers follow the same methodologies, or think in the same way, or think that NASA is a "conspiracy" (ABSOLUTE NONSENSE in my opinion!). The Face and wider Cydonia has generated some very intense speculations and research that should be recorded in the article in my opinion... EVEN if unproven or flawed. Wikipedia is not the place to "prove" anything, one way or the other. Thankyou! DJ Barney 23:11, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
1. Article states that "after detailed analysis NASA stated that Face on Mars is natural formation".
The reason I have removed part of this sentence (about "detailed analysis" is because I believe that Wikipedia is (and should be) stating documented facts. NASA has never conducted any scientific research on the feature in Cydonia region. In fact, it has always dismissed even the slightest possibility of it being artificial. It stated without ANY analysis during press conference after the Face was discovered in 70's that it was an "optical illusion". It also added that "on the next photo taken just hours after the first one was taken, the facial resemblance of this feature dissapeared because of different light conditions". In fact, that second photo NEVER EXISTED and NASA simply lied. All I want to achieve here is that NASA has never done anything to prove/disprove the artificiality theory, apart from stating that "it looks natural" (the Face). On the other side, many scientists (including Carlotto) produced numerous scientific papers on this subject treating it in a scientific way.
2. The Badlands Guardian Geological Feature.
It is stated that it is a "similiar feature". Since when we know that the Face is natural / artificial ? Wiki is about facts, so I believe this comparison is not appropriate at all. Similarly, if I was to include sentence: "A similar feature on Earth is the Sphinx, which resembles a human head wearing a headress" - surely it would have caused anger. Because it is not similiar, nothing is similiar to the Face as we know nothing about its origin.
3. "Today, it (The Face)is generally understood to be an optical illusion.
Generally understood by whom? NASA, of course and millinons of other people. Equally it is generally understood that the Face is artificial - by many credible scientists and millions of other people as well. By adding "generally understood by mainstream science" I am simply stating the fact. Also by adding sentence about other scientists believing it is artificial - I simply make it more ballanced. Since when NASA is Earths "oracle" on Mars? Whatever NASA says goes (as I can clearly see in this article about the Face. ). This is bias behaviour and calling non-NASA-believers "pseudoscientists" shows it all very clearly, that article is one-sided.
Thanks —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 193.203.82.194 ( talk • contribs).
The new picture for the face on Mars in question was processed by NASA to make it look as if there wasn't anything special there. This was proven by noted and reputable astronomer Van Flandern (see his videos on You Tube) and others. They also clearly demonstrate another face on Mars as well as many other structures, including pyramids, that are 90% certain of being man-made. The question is not their artificiality as this has been well established but who made them? Mars is too small to harbour complex life, at least not any that would resemble us in stature. Yet it is claimed they are our ancestors. Also, it is probably a former moon but the parent planet is supposed to be too large to support complex life. Go figure. As well, fringe hypotheses are often right, like heliocentrism, the round Earth, and comets as celestial instead of atmospheric. It took some 2000 years for heliocentrism to be generally accepted. So the orthodox view is often often wrong but conservatives on both the left and right want to maintain the status quo and the conventional paradigm even if it's proven wrong. Scientists should have a more liberal and progressive attitude. Mars Bars. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bpell ( talk • contribs) 11:50, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
I've restored some of Plumbago's edits per WP:WEIGHT. Rather than edit-warring about it the solution is simple: Find sources that suggest different treatment. Minority viewpoints should only be given as much treatment as warrented, which may be no treatment at all for viewpoints held by a tiny minority. -- Ronz 16:59, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
Needs removing IMO, reads very poorly and not from any recognised organisation as far as I can see sbandrews ( t) 14:04, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
I've left messages at talk page of all the editors that appear to have been edit-warring about this article. I'd like to resolve this through discussion, though the opinion of an outside party may be necessary to get consensus. How do regular editors of this article want to proceed?-- Chaser - T 21:19, 21 June 2007 (UTC)
I've just trimmed the "Cydonia in Popular Culture" section down to a single sentence and a reference. The sentence notes the frequent mention of the Face on Mars in popular culture, while the reference cites a few choice examples over a range of forms of popular culture (specifically films, TV, videogames and music). I've trimmed these examples to two per medium (there's only one film to my certain knowledge), and may have possibly not picked the best examples (though I'd like to think that most people would trim the Power Rangers wherever possible). I've supplied dates to the choices to make it clear that this isn't a completely flash-in-the-pan phenomenon (i.e. mentioned immediately after the Viking picture was published but never since). Anyway, I hope the result satisfies both pro- and con-trivia camps (or, more likely, is something that we can grudgingly agree on). Cheers, -- Plumbago 10:24, 3 September 2007 (UTC)
I think that the link you've deleted >>> Why the "Face on Mars" wasn't made by Aliens >>> should be added again to the main article since it give good reasons against the popular myth of an alien-made sculpture (why other opinions' links and debates are allowed on the main page?) PS - sorry for my ghostNASA article about the alternative ("Direct"-like) ESAS rockets DEATH, but it's (simply) the reality of facts... :-) Gaetanomarano 14:57, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
1. if you delete my link, then you must delete the full article, since, until we will go on Mars and study the "face", EVERY single word written in the article (or in the articles linked) is just a matter of OPINION
2. since english is not my mother language, I'm aware it's not perfect, but, so far, thousands english and non-english peoples have read my website and blog (and 4000+ posts and comments on other space forums and blogs) and actually UNDERSTANDED them ...if you want only PERFECT english articles and links on Wikipedia, that sounds like a sort of USA/UK "intellectual dictatorship" since we would read ONLY american and england texts/point of views
3. since you (Wiki admin) are so fast and zealant to delete an innocent link (with some thought about the Face on Mars) in MINUTES, I really don't understand why you still leave (TEN+ months after it was published!!!) the "Direct Launcher" full article (and dozens texts and links about this concept in other articles) despite it's only a PRIVATE, PERSONAL, COMMERCIAL, NON-OFFICIAL, NON-NASA, ADVERTISING, UNEXISTING, "PHOTOSHOP & WORD" proposal (now DEAD, like all other alternative concepts, since NASA has assigned all contracts to develop the Ares-I "stick") ...WHEN you will delete the "Direct" article, texts and links??? ...why the same question (posted several times on many Wiki discussions' pages) have had no answer so far??? ...nor the "quick-as-my-links" "Direct" article deletion?) Gaetanomarano 16:45, 5 September 2007 (UTC)
The supposed face found on Mars was nothing other than a publicity stunt to revive public interrest in a program that has very, very...little to offer to the average person out there. Thus, by "enhancing" the images from 1988, NASA community has managed to stirr the masses in such a way, call it a comspiracy that needs to be INVESTIGATED, and resolved once and for all. Thus NASA conveniantly managed to conn us all in order to pay for yet another multi-billion boondoggel pet project. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.68.90.28 ( talk • contribs)
I don't understand why details of the "discovery" of the non-existing face deserve any attention at all, let alone the amount just added. If we cannot verify this with a reliable and independent source demonstrating it's importance, I think it should be removed per WP:NPOV. -- Ronz ( talk) 20:48, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
UFOTV: Life On MARS-New Scientific Evidence
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u-20g7Bwdw
-- Heckubus4 ( talk) 15:51, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
The article should mention where the name came from. That's the only reason I looked at this >_> -- Snaxe/fow ( talk) 19:36, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
"There's a face on Mars Looking upward at the stars . . ."
When you first heard about the "face on Mars" or saw the photo, I bet you knew perfectly well NASA would later furnish more photos from different angles to prove there was no face on Mars at all. Am I right? Of course I'm right.
But you also knew that IF (just for the sake of argument) there really was a face on Mars put there by intelligent beings, NASA would just as surely have come forth with similar photos to prove it was no such thing. Except in that case the photos would be faked. There's no way NASA would share such knowledge with little old you and me; they wouldn't want us to know. So my disbelief in the "face on Mars" does not derive from NASA's subsequent photos. Instead, it derives from my deep seated prejudice against the idea that there is intelligent life on Mars, a prejudice that derives from my exposure to scientific thinking.
Actually, the Galle happy face looks a lot more artificial to me--two dots and a semicircular mouth! Galle is actually easier to credit as an artificial structure than Cydonia is! Tom 129.93.65.103 ( talk) 21:39, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
If it were discovered that there was a face on Mars placed there by intelligent beings, NASA would be thrilled beyond imagination to publish this. Funding problems for NASA would be a thing of the past.-- RLent ( talk) 18:06, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Hi. Just a quick one. What I have noticed is that anyone who wants to change something in the Mars Face article is immediately reverted to the previous, "correct" version of the article. Sadly, seems like this article is managed by one, maybe two main contributors (namely Plumbago) who do not allow ANY changes to the article unless approved by themselves. This situation results in the situation, where we have one Policeman who defends his point of view in the article, mainly defending himself by using words like "pseudoscience". In fact, it is NASA who did not perform any scientific research about this subject and who claims that Face is a natural hill because "it looks like a hill".
What needs to be understood is that the subject still remains open, and anything that is said about this strange feature is a speculation. In the article, it says that "today it is generally accepted to be an optical illusion" (the Face). This is questionable, because I know of many scientists who think opposite. So in fact it is not "generally accepted" but it is "thought by some" to be an optical illusion (some + Plumbago). The fact is that the face has always been considered as "trick of light and shadow" and NASA was very eager to dismiss it's potential (to the point where NASA has LIED about the existence of another photo of he Face where in fact it never existed).
So, to summarise my point, please be more objective to the subject and allow a little window for the "opposition" here and don't treat this article as your own by not allowing ANY constructive changes to it. By changing a sentence "today it is generally accepted to be an optical illusion" to something along the lines of "it is considered by some to be an illusion" makes it more clear to the people who are not familiar with the subject thus allowing them to understand, that it was not proven (the Face) to be an illusion (quite opposite, as various experiments show). Also comparing the Face to the "similiar" features on Earth is misleading - even if the Face is natural, it still remains on another world where everything we know is much different than here on Earth. The face is very original, there is nothing like it in the whole solar system (forgetting about almost exactly the same feature from Iran, which was proven to be artificial man-made structure [3]) and it should not be dismissed because NASA says so. That's it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.203.82.194 ( talk) 10:20, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
"......that pictures unambiguously show it as a crumbly mountain......". The Nazca Lines are just a bunch of rocks up close. A TV screen is just random pixels up close. Anything by Georges Seurat is just a bunch of coloured junk up close. All are different when viewed from the perspective they were intended to be viewed from. Maybe this is also true of 'The Face' ? Also, IF it were of intelligent origin, then who knows what it might have looked like before thousands/millions of years of Martian weathering ? Unfortunately, any published article that doesn't conform to the 'majority consensus' is either immediately deleted or mocked on Wikipedia as pseudo-science, or decried as the ravings of fringe lunatics. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.25.180.26 ( talk) 08:49, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Editor 79.177.140.189 recently added the following text to the article ...
While the "first published" portion isn't entirely accurate (NASA published the images shortly after it acquired them; see the cited press statement), the reference to Ancient Astronauts is very useful. However, given that 30 years have passed, the magazine is difficult to find information about. I have managed to track this source down, but it's only a fleeting mention in another book. Anyway, if someone could provide any more information, that'd be great.
In the meantime, I've amended the added text to remove the "first published" portion (and the potentially POV "little public fanfare") and to put the information in a bit more context ...
Cheers, -- PLUMBAGO 08:10, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
To: Plumbago: I'm new to Wikipedia so apologies if I am doing this wrong. I was the editor of Ancient Astronauts (Howard Smukler) and got the first batch of pictures directly from the NASA press liaison. I immediately dropped them into an article of Ancient Astronauts that was literally shipping out the door that day. I also sent copies to all the New York media and my contacts at the National Enquirer and Star, then I made follow-up calls. I was convinced this was picture was really HOT. Nobody responded to either the picture or my calls. The magazine was on the stands within a month, I believe we had a circulation of about 250,000 which at that time was the largest for any similar magazine. I never saw the Face on Mars in any other publication until about 1980 when the more detailed analysis started coming out. When I met Hoagland some years later he acknowledged that he had seen my initial articles and I was happy to I gave him copies for his research. Not only would I like to have my name cited in the Wikipedia article, I do think it is important to note that the initial publication of the pictures was largely without public fanfare. In fact, I could not even get the National Inquirer/Star to pick up the story and as you know, they would print anything. Hope this clarifies the reasoning behind my edit. User: hsmukler 10:31PM August 12, 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hsmukler ( talk • contribs) 19:33, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
To: Plumbago: The article with editorial and pictures appeared in the January, 1977 issue of Ancient Astronauts, page 26, titled "Dramatic Photos of Mars: the Home of the Gods." The magazine would have been on the stands in early December, after I received about 200 photographs directly from NASA public relations department in about Sept, 1976. I don't recall seeing any other public publication of the "face" until the end of 1979 and remember being very disappointed that I could not convince my contacts at the National Enquirer or the Star that this picture was for real. I received about 100 letters to the editor in response to the article, but most of them thought the pyramids on Mars were the really significant discovery. While I agree with you that its difficult to judge the public's initial reaction, I am convinced that this picture was a "sleeper" and did not really catch fire for about 5 years. I appreciate your adding my name back to the entry. submitted by Howard Smukler, August 21, 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hsmukler ( talk • contribs) 21:34, 20 August 2008 (UTC)
Would it be possible for someone to create an image indicating exactly where this area is on the surface of Mars. There's some indication of latitude and longitude in the article, but a picture is worth a thousand words, right? ;) -- SandChigger ( talk) 04:19, 25 November 2008 (UTC)
Hi again. Sorry, maybe I wasn't clear enough - the references I removed don't point to pages that reference the D&M Pyramid, at least not by name. That's why I removed them (actually, I commented them out; they're still there). Anyway, maybe you were referring to a subpage from the links. Can you maybe point the references to there instead? Cheers, --PLUMBAGO 19:02, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
Retrieved from " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Logos5557"
Hi. You're right in that two of the three references do not mention D&M pyramid by name. However, first one (the one currently being number 7) does so on the picture. The other two shows the images of the Cydonia taken by different spacecraft, without mentioning D&M pyramid by name. If they have to, as per some wikipedia rule, I don't have any objection to that-- Logos5557 ( talk) 19:39, 1 December 2008 (UTC)
An article, rated B-Class, on features in cydonia should have included data about the sizes. Length, width, heigth? Aren't there such information provided by the sources cited in the article? Perhaps Google Mars may help with this.. Logos5557 ( talk) 18:34, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
Tried to edit the reference list to repair a broken link, but i only get a link or something? Here is the correct link for the reference to the MOLA paper: http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/1998/1998GL900116.shtml maye ( talk) 14:41, 4 January 2010 (UTC)
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