This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I first heard about the Guardian Angels in the early 1980's. I used to collect Blackbelt Magazine and have some with articles about Sliwa and the Guardian Angels, and one with Mary Sliwa on the cover in beret demonstrating a selfdefense takedown.
I am glad to know they are still a strong and growing organization.
This guy is full of crap. While the Guardian Angels have done some local good, Silwa has become an even bigger blowhard since the '80s. Typical.
Okay, wasn't his story kind of included in one of the Law and Order episodes? Themalau 05:09, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
The Gambino section is not particularly clear. At first reading, one would assume the trials took place not longer after the shooting in 1992. However given the fact it wasn't until 2005 that a mistrial occured, obviously thisw as not the case. I presume the evidence was sufficient for a trial only in 2004 or so but this isn't clear fromt his article Nil Einne 11:09, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Didn't Curtis Sliwa stage a kidnapping event where his sister was kidnapped? Later it turned out it was just staged to get publicity. Why has this been long removed from the article?
"Under questioning, Sliwa, 51, was forced to admit that over the years he had staged a number of publicity stunts to get media attention for the Guardian Angels, founded in the late 1970s while the Brooklyn Prep High School dropout was working as a night manager at a Bronx McDonald's.
He said he once had his older sister pose as a mugging victim whose purse was returned to her by a Guardian Angel - $300 still inside. He claimed he'd been kidnapped and abandoned in a Jones Beach parking lot by a transit cop - a hoax he said he hoped would stop police from harassing his subway security patrol.
"It was the dumbest thing I ever did in my life," Sliwa said.
Sliwa also claimed that as he lay bleeding a cop mocked him, saying "Look at Superman now."
Source:www.guardianangels.org/pdf/1176.pdf -- 24.193.80.232 05:33, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
“ | ...as well as comedy bit consultant for the Opie and Anthony show on CBS Radio as well as XM Satellite Radio | ” |
Where's the citation for this? This is dubious to me as O and A are competitors with Sliwa. patsw ( talk) 02:04, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Ironically, this founder of the Guardian Angels--an organization established to fight crime and violence--has himself advocated violence on a FOXNews show.
wikipedia contributor owlmonkey seems to have a personal interest in the Guardian Angels and in Curtis Silwa (they are mentioned on Owlmoney's profile page), and he keeps removing my mention of this event. Conversation follows:
Curtis Silwa On May 16, 2007 on the FOX News network's Hannity & Colmes show, Silwa advocated the use of violence against XM Satellite radio shock jocks Opie and Anthony for engaging in discussion about forced sex with the Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and others. Clip available on YouTube
You don't think that's major? This is a guy who started an organization to fight violence and crime advocating the use of violence?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Felicityhughes (talk • contribs) 21:29, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
me: You think secondary sources are necessary with the original source is the person himself, recording on video tape with audio? I'll create my own Curtis Silwa page on Google Knol, where authors don't have to tolerate fools like yourself.
me: First you wrote, "it was awhile ago but it didn't really get pickup up by secondary sources and commented upon" then you wrote "If no secondary sources think it was relevant, then why should it be here?"
But secondary sources DID pick it up.
http://digg.com/people/Guardian_Angels_Curtis_Sliwa_advocates_violence_against_Opie_Anthony 282 diggs is pretty significant, and there are dozens of comments on the youtube video page and on the digg page.
I don't read dailykos, but I understand it's a major political blog: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/29/1028/25810/730/466083 M. Sliwa is Maria Sliwa, the sister of right-wing New York City talk show host Curtis Sliwa, founder of the Guardian Angels and a strong supporter of the Republican Party who regularly speaks at Republican fund-raisers and national conventions. Curtis Sliwa himself advocates violence (against talk radio hosts Opie and Anthony).
You have no business editing any biographies of living persons if you think it's libelous to point out what someone himself (or herself) said on a recorded and nationally televised program. Raising that concern in reaction to my edit is seriously ridiculous. Sounds like your idea of collaboration is making up rubbish excuses so you can be a win an argument and be a control freak.
a ha, just read your bio. You list Guardian Angels and Curtis Silwa as your personal interests, that makes you unfairly biased. Stop making excuses and let the truth be told. This whole ordeal doesn't make you much of a Buddhist in my book.
Retrieved from " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Owlmonkey"
Fine to move this discussion from my talk page here, since it seems we're not coming to an agreement about this and you keep reverting the deletion. - Owlmonkey ( talk) 06:51, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
Per WP:EL "There is no blanket ban on linking to [YouTube] as long as the links abide by the guidelines on this page"--and I note there's already one other YouTube external link. If Sliwa made a controversial statement on Fox, and it's reproduced in fair-use fashion on YouTube, quoting Sliwa is fine, and linking to the video is also recommended. What is NOT permitted is to introduce commentary that doesn't come from a secondary source. Just because he answers "yes" to a host's question is not a sufficient reason to say he advocated violence--We do not synthesize statements together here to draw conclusions, that is original research. Commentators elsewhere can, and we can quote who said what, but we draw the line at that. Jclemens ( talk) 07:38, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
There may be an error or two in this, the audio is hard to hear as they talk all over each other, but I think I captured the main statements from about the 3 minute mark on. - Owlmonkey ( talk) 06:11, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
RfC: disagreement concerning including controversial statement Sliwa made which lacks secondary sources demonstrating significance but we have a transcript of the statements. question about meeting BLP guidelines, creating undue weight, or deserving mention posted from August 11, 2008 through August 18, 2008 - Owlmonkey ( talk) 22:05, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
The question comes down to this: If this incident is notable, why have none of the ordinary reliable sources taken note of it?
Digg is obviously not a reliable source, and Daily Kos, besides being questionable with respect to fact checking, is politically extreme and probably requires a balanced counteropinion. (BTW, the link given doesn't lead to anything relevant.) Fox is not really a secondary source here, because the recording is merely quoting Sliwa et al. without comment. That is, the source is not YouTube nor Fox, but Sliwa himself, in his impromptu remarks.
But impromptu remarks, especially made in emotional circumstances such as this, are probably not notable in themselves. Sometimes people misspeak, and sometimes they say things they don't really mean. When such remarks become the subject of controversy, that controversy may be notable, but there's no evidence of controversy here. BLP allows citing self-published material in some cases, but this doesn't include off-the-cuff comments, the point being that self-published material is presumably deliberate, not reacting to the moment, and therefore represents the person's true views.
Furthermore, the disputed material doesn't belong in the "Current media presence" section, which gives a chronology of Sliwa's media career. - Unconventional ( talk) 04:15, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
Thank you both for the comments so far. I agree notability doesn't limit article content generally, but it is my understanding of WP:BLP that implied criticism or praise about a living person needs reliable secondary sources to establish that it's noteworthy. So it's a higher standard for living person's articles, in my opinion. Therefore maybe this is more about noteworthiness of the quote, or how controversial it really perceived. No good secondary sources found the quote noteworthy, or commented that it was controversial, therefore it might give undue weight to the idea that it was controversial and noteworthy by including it nonetheless. Are we deciding that it was controversial? or are we finding that good secondary sources are finding it controversial? If we decide it was noteworthy without secondary sources finding it so, does that border on WP:OR? - Owlmonkey ( talk) 22:35, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
For good reason the standard for negative info is even higher than the standard for non-negative info. It's also a good idea to apply Wikipedia:CITE#QUALIFY to clarify sources and attribute POV. If there's any reason to believe negative info is false, then my guidance is it's best to leave it out. Also, check out WP:SELFPUB for comment the subject makes himself. If there's a 1st and 2nd party, it may be ok. If the 1st is making comments about a 2nd in relation to a 3rd party, it may not be OK. Zulu Papa 5 ( talk) 04:07, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
I should have provided a link to WP:WELLKNOWN. According to that section of BLP, an incident involving a public figure must also be notable, as well as relevant and well-documented by reliable third-party sources. My main point was that this incident was not noted by reliable sources, and therefore must be deemed non-notable. My secondary point was that the suggestion of hypocrisy was not relevant to the context of Sliwa's media career. - Unconventional ( talk) 13:29, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Thanks again everyone for the additional input on this discussion. I'm still opposed to including the quote, though I'm glad we seem to have consensus to avoid adding an interpretation to the quote. But I'm opposed to including it because I don't think it's exemplary of anything the article is trying to say already or that is sourced. Generally speaking, we can't include every quote of a notable figure, so we need to decide which quotes are encyclopedic. How do we do that? My point is that we shouldn't be synthesizing an opinion that the quote is controversial, unless secondary sources decide that it is controversial.
Quotes in my experience are useful when a view is established (by citations), as a way to put that view in the subject's or citation's own voice. But in this case, the quote was suggested for inclusion to make a point about Sliwa's view that is not presented in the article (aside perhaps that he's outspoken) nor backed up by any secondary citations demonstrating its noteworthiness. If we decide that it is noteworthy, but secondary sources do not, how is that not original research?
I'm not opposed to some leeway in what's included on general articles, we shouldn't have to find sources for every single statement in the wikipedia, but for living persons articles I think the bar should be higher, and any statement this is potentially critical of the living person more so. Those in my opinion need some guideline for what to include and what not to include and secondary sources seems to be the best measure for that as I read the policies. - Owlmonkey ( talk) 22:47, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
I rewrote this section, removed several errors and redundancies and added refs. Unless these people are convicted, the charges should not be stated as facts. Njsamizdat ( talk) 14:39, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
It is odd that Sliwa was initially brought up as a Nestorian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.137.170.8 ( talk) 10:46, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
These details are relevant given all of the "tough guy" talk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.211.195.25 ( talk) 14:26, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
This seems biased. Apparently it's only as of late Sliwa has experienced difficulties career-wise? Artie Lange has been fired and hired as a radio host several times, but it doesn't mean his career is "failing". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.103.228.112 ( talk) 11:25, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
Lisa Sliwa was famous in her own right, it seems like an odd omission. InsultComicDog 21:15, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
The article places him in Category:Brooklyn Preparatory School alumni. As the article states, he was expelled, and did not graduate. Is he still an alumnus? TJRC ( talk) 21:45, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
The box in the upper right of the article says that Sliwa has had two spouses (Evers and Galda) and one partner (Katz). However, in the article under "Personal Life" it says, "Sliwa has been married three times." 2604:2000:EFC0:2:8D4A:C930:569D:3926 ( talk) 13:48, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
hoople365.5 Hoople365.5 ( talk) 05:09, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
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I was living in the Fordham neighborhood during part of 1978 and remember Curtis Sliwa mentioned in a discussion of a garbage pick-up initiative he organized previous to his forming the Guardian Angels. This might have been during his working as a McDonald's night manager. RichardBond ( talk) 23:09, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
Hi there, I just inserted a more current image of Mr. Sliwa speaking at an event this year. I wanted to update it as the previous image displayed him at a younger age, this photo was taken during his more recent activities running for mayor. If this photo was inserted or formatted-in incorrectly please let me know or feel free to correct it yourself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mmeschter ( talk • contribs) 00:36, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
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Why aren't the Independence Party and Animal Welfare Party mentioned in the current version of this article? 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 00:43, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
Politics > Paragraph 3:
"Mateo believes the baseless claims that Trump won the 2020 presidential election"
Shouldn't the term "baseless" be considered bias, instead just saying "believes the claims" then removing the word baseless 89.19.88.121 ( talk) 18:23, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
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This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I first heard about the Guardian Angels in the early 1980's. I used to collect Blackbelt Magazine and have some with articles about Sliwa and the Guardian Angels, and one with Mary Sliwa on the cover in beret demonstrating a selfdefense takedown.
I am glad to know they are still a strong and growing organization.
This guy is full of crap. While the Guardian Angels have done some local good, Silwa has become an even bigger blowhard since the '80s. Typical.
Okay, wasn't his story kind of included in one of the Law and Order episodes? Themalau 05:09, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
The Gambino section is not particularly clear. At first reading, one would assume the trials took place not longer after the shooting in 1992. However given the fact it wasn't until 2005 that a mistrial occured, obviously thisw as not the case. I presume the evidence was sufficient for a trial only in 2004 or so but this isn't clear fromt his article Nil Einne 11:09, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
Didn't Curtis Sliwa stage a kidnapping event where his sister was kidnapped? Later it turned out it was just staged to get publicity. Why has this been long removed from the article?
"Under questioning, Sliwa, 51, was forced to admit that over the years he had staged a number of publicity stunts to get media attention for the Guardian Angels, founded in the late 1970s while the Brooklyn Prep High School dropout was working as a night manager at a Bronx McDonald's.
He said he once had his older sister pose as a mugging victim whose purse was returned to her by a Guardian Angel - $300 still inside. He claimed he'd been kidnapped and abandoned in a Jones Beach parking lot by a transit cop - a hoax he said he hoped would stop police from harassing his subway security patrol.
"It was the dumbest thing I ever did in my life," Sliwa said.
Sliwa also claimed that as he lay bleeding a cop mocked him, saying "Look at Superman now."
Source:www.guardianangels.org/pdf/1176.pdf -- 24.193.80.232 05:33, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
“ | ...as well as comedy bit consultant for the Opie and Anthony show on CBS Radio as well as XM Satellite Radio | ” |
Where's the citation for this? This is dubious to me as O and A are competitors with Sliwa. patsw ( talk) 02:04, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
Ironically, this founder of the Guardian Angels--an organization established to fight crime and violence--has himself advocated violence on a FOXNews show.
wikipedia contributor owlmonkey seems to have a personal interest in the Guardian Angels and in Curtis Silwa (they are mentioned on Owlmoney's profile page), and he keeps removing my mention of this event. Conversation follows:
Curtis Silwa On May 16, 2007 on the FOX News network's Hannity & Colmes show, Silwa advocated the use of violence against XM Satellite radio shock jocks Opie and Anthony for engaging in discussion about forced sex with the Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice and others. Clip available on YouTube
You don't think that's major? This is a guy who started an organization to fight violence and crime advocating the use of violence?! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Felicityhughes (talk • contribs) 21:29, 6 August 2008 (UTC)
me: You think secondary sources are necessary with the original source is the person himself, recording on video tape with audio? I'll create my own Curtis Silwa page on Google Knol, where authors don't have to tolerate fools like yourself.
me: First you wrote, "it was awhile ago but it didn't really get pickup up by secondary sources and commented upon" then you wrote "If no secondary sources think it was relevant, then why should it be here?"
But secondary sources DID pick it up.
http://digg.com/people/Guardian_Angels_Curtis_Sliwa_advocates_violence_against_Opie_Anthony 282 diggs is pretty significant, and there are dozens of comments on the youtube video page and on the digg page.
I don't read dailykos, but I understand it's a major political blog: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/2/29/1028/25810/730/466083 M. Sliwa is Maria Sliwa, the sister of right-wing New York City talk show host Curtis Sliwa, founder of the Guardian Angels and a strong supporter of the Republican Party who regularly speaks at Republican fund-raisers and national conventions. Curtis Sliwa himself advocates violence (against talk radio hosts Opie and Anthony).
You have no business editing any biographies of living persons if you think it's libelous to point out what someone himself (or herself) said on a recorded and nationally televised program. Raising that concern in reaction to my edit is seriously ridiculous. Sounds like your idea of collaboration is making up rubbish excuses so you can be a win an argument and be a control freak.
a ha, just read your bio. You list Guardian Angels and Curtis Silwa as your personal interests, that makes you unfairly biased. Stop making excuses and let the truth be told. This whole ordeal doesn't make you much of a Buddhist in my book.
Retrieved from " http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Owlmonkey"
Fine to move this discussion from my talk page here, since it seems we're not coming to an agreement about this and you keep reverting the deletion. - Owlmonkey ( talk) 06:51, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
Per WP:EL "There is no blanket ban on linking to [YouTube] as long as the links abide by the guidelines on this page"--and I note there's already one other YouTube external link. If Sliwa made a controversial statement on Fox, and it's reproduced in fair-use fashion on YouTube, quoting Sliwa is fine, and linking to the video is also recommended. What is NOT permitted is to introduce commentary that doesn't come from a secondary source. Just because he answers "yes" to a host's question is not a sufficient reason to say he advocated violence--We do not synthesize statements together here to draw conclusions, that is original research. Commentators elsewhere can, and we can quote who said what, but we draw the line at that. Jclemens ( talk) 07:38, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
There may be an error or two in this, the audio is hard to hear as they talk all over each other, but I think I captured the main statements from about the 3 minute mark on. - Owlmonkey ( talk) 06:11, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
RfC: disagreement concerning including controversial statement Sliwa made which lacks secondary sources demonstrating significance but we have a transcript of the statements. question about meeting BLP guidelines, creating undue weight, or deserving mention posted from August 11, 2008 through August 18, 2008 - Owlmonkey ( talk) 22:05, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
The question comes down to this: If this incident is notable, why have none of the ordinary reliable sources taken note of it?
Digg is obviously not a reliable source, and Daily Kos, besides being questionable with respect to fact checking, is politically extreme and probably requires a balanced counteropinion. (BTW, the link given doesn't lead to anything relevant.) Fox is not really a secondary source here, because the recording is merely quoting Sliwa et al. without comment. That is, the source is not YouTube nor Fox, but Sliwa himself, in his impromptu remarks.
But impromptu remarks, especially made in emotional circumstances such as this, are probably not notable in themselves. Sometimes people misspeak, and sometimes they say things they don't really mean. When such remarks become the subject of controversy, that controversy may be notable, but there's no evidence of controversy here. BLP allows citing self-published material in some cases, but this doesn't include off-the-cuff comments, the point being that self-published material is presumably deliberate, not reacting to the moment, and therefore represents the person's true views.
Furthermore, the disputed material doesn't belong in the "Current media presence" section, which gives a chronology of Sliwa's media career. - Unconventional ( talk) 04:15, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
Thank you both for the comments so far. I agree notability doesn't limit article content generally, but it is my understanding of WP:BLP that implied criticism or praise about a living person needs reliable secondary sources to establish that it's noteworthy. So it's a higher standard for living person's articles, in my opinion. Therefore maybe this is more about noteworthiness of the quote, or how controversial it really perceived. No good secondary sources found the quote noteworthy, or commented that it was controversial, therefore it might give undue weight to the idea that it was controversial and noteworthy by including it nonetheless. Are we deciding that it was controversial? or are we finding that good secondary sources are finding it controversial? If we decide it was noteworthy without secondary sources finding it so, does that border on WP:OR? - Owlmonkey ( talk) 22:35, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
For good reason the standard for negative info is even higher than the standard for non-negative info. It's also a good idea to apply Wikipedia:CITE#QUALIFY to clarify sources and attribute POV. If there's any reason to believe negative info is false, then my guidance is it's best to leave it out. Also, check out WP:SELFPUB for comment the subject makes himself. If there's a 1st and 2nd party, it may be ok. If the 1st is making comments about a 2nd in relation to a 3rd party, it may not be OK. Zulu Papa 5 ( talk) 04:07, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
I should have provided a link to WP:WELLKNOWN. According to that section of BLP, an incident involving a public figure must also be notable, as well as relevant and well-documented by reliable third-party sources. My main point was that this incident was not noted by reliable sources, and therefore must be deemed non-notable. My secondary point was that the suggestion of hypocrisy was not relevant to the context of Sliwa's media career. - Unconventional ( talk) 13:29, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
Thanks again everyone for the additional input on this discussion. I'm still opposed to including the quote, though I'm glad we seem to have consensus to avoid adding an interpretation to the quote. But I'm opposed to including it because I don't think it's exemplary of anything the article is trying to say already or that is sourced. Generally speaking, we can't include every quote of a notable figure, so we need to decide which quotes are encyclopedic. How do we do that? My point is that we shouldn't be synthesizing an opinion that the quote is controversial, unless secondary sources decide that it is controversial.
Quotes in my experience are useful when a view is established (by citations), as a way to put that view in the subject's or citation's own voice. But in this case, the quote was suggested for inclusion to make a point about Sliwa's view that is not presented in the article (aside perhaps that he's outspoken) nor backed up by any secondary citations demonstrating its noteworthiness. If we decide that it is noteworthy, but secondary sources do not, how is that not original research?
I'm not opposed to some leeway in what's included on general articles, we shouldn't have to find sources for every single statement in the wikipedia, but for living persons articles I think the bar should be higher, and any statement this is potentially critical of the living person more so. Those in my opinion need some guideline for what to include and what not to include and secondary sources seems to be the best measure for that as I read the policies. - Owlmonkey ( talk) 22:47, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
I rewrote this section, removed several errors and redundancies and added refs. Unless these people are convicted, the charges should not be stated as facts. Njsamizdat ( talk) 14:39, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
It is odd that Sliwa was initially brought up as a Nestorian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.137.170.8 ( talk) 10:46, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
These details are relevant given all of the "tough guy" talk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.211.195.25 ( talk) 14:26, 5 August 2009 (UTC)
This seems biased. Apparently it's only as of late Sliwa has experienced difficulties career-wise? Artie Lange has been fired and hired as a radio host several times, but it doesn't mean his career is "failing". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.103.228.112 ( talk) 11:25, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
Lisa Sliwa was famous in her own right, it seems like an odd omission. InsultComicDog 21:15, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
The article places him in Category:Brooklyn Preparatory School alumni. As the article states, he was expelled, and did not graduate. Is he still an alumnus? TJRC ( talk) 21:45, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
The box in the upper right of the article says that Sliwa has had two spouses (Evers and Galda) and one partner (Katz). However, in the article under "Personal Life" it says, "Sliwa has been married three times." 2604:2000:EFC0:2:8D4A:C930:569D:3926 ( talk) 13:48, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
hoople365.5 Hoople365.5 ( talk) 05:09, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
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I was living in the Fordham neighborhood during part of 1978 and remember Curtis Sliwa mentioned in a discussion of a garbage pick-up initiative he organized previous to his forming the Guardian Angels. This might have been during his working as a McDonald's night manager. RichardBond ( talk) 23:09, 23 January 2021 (UTC)
Hi there, I just inserted a more current image of Mr. Sliwa speaking at an event this year. I wanted to update it as the previous image displayed him at a younger age, this photo was taken during his more recent activities running for mayor. If this photo was inserted or formatted-in incorrectly please let me know or feel free to correct it yourself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mmeschter ( talk • contribs) 00:36, 10 September 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
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Why aren't the Independence Party and Animal Welfare Party mentioned in the current version of this article? 173.88.246.138 ( talk) 00:43, 4 November 2021 (UTC)
Politics > Paragraph 3:
"Mateo believes the baseless claims that Trump won the 2020 presidential election"
Shouldn't the term "baseless" be considered bias, instead just saying "believes the claims" then removing the word baseless 89.19.88.121 ( talk) 18:23, 4 February 2022 (UTC)
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