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Archive 1 |
I don't think there is national pride in France, individualism is strong in France so you are wrong. french who are proud to be french are rare. Nicoilas (french man)
everybody makes mistakes
Well, this article, in its current form, does a great deal to demonstrate the level of ignorance of Americans when it comes to European cultures. Language definitely creates major barriers to mutual understanding it seems. Mathieugp 02:56, 10 Mar 2004 (UTC)
TonyClarke 08:30, 10 Mar 2004 (UTC)
The word comes from "communauté", which can be straightly translated to communauty. It relates the idea of living through the rules of the "communauté" in which you are originated from. This often has an ethnical context. This word has appeared recently to due to the failed integration of maghreb immigrants, to qualify their specific way of life, and their refusal of the french culture, law, secularity, mores... It is not related in any way to communism. Edouard (another frenchmen).
I didn't know where to put the Language, Transportation and Social reform paragraphs, so I left them at the bottom of the page. They should be inserted somewhere else though or simply removed. Mathieugp 15:01, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Good structure, and the page should be a lot more informative when the headings are filled out. It should say a lot just from the title, also.
I wonder if some of the links would be better as sections of the main article, rather than separate articles. There was a big discussion about these alternatives (links or sections) a few months ago. I think somebody interested in one aspect of French culture would probably benefit from having other aspects of the culture in the same article, rather than to have to go off to another article to find out about something sililar to their original interest. Hope this makes sense!
TonyClarke 22:56, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)~
The revolutionary ideal is a powerful totem in the French psyche. Some ideas of Situationism were realised in Disneyland Paris, although doubtless this would be denied by its builders. The French Revolution was itself an extreme form of social change, and its reverberations are everywhere apparent in day to day life there. Consider also the 1871 Paris Commune, and the 1968 student riots. Parallel to these events, it is possible to discern deeply conservative trends in French life.
This is very vague, POV, etc. Removed until we can write something more encyclopedic. David.Monniaux 02:26, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Why is there a whole section for one sentance? This should be expanded or intergrated elsewhere. - ChristopherMannMcKay 22:03, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Only three little remarks about the sport chapter :
And actually, our real "national" sport is strike !
(sorry for my poor level in English !)
Your English is fine. Il est meilleur que mon français.-- Rob117 04:24, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
To me, the second sentence of the intro paragraph doesn't make a lot of grammatical sense. I changed it a while ago, and it was reverted to its previous state by an anon user. Does anyone else think that it should be changed? Also, do we need a link to "France" in that sentence, since there's already one in the previous sentence? Dariuspomaha 21:45, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
In trying to clean up and expand this article, I think we might take a hint from the organization of Culture of the United States which has some valid subsections:
Other subsections that could be added:
Thanks- NYArtsnWords ( talk) 01:06, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
I have moved the following material here, awaiting some references:
The material was added on 5/5/008. Please feel free to return the material once it has been sourced. Thanks - NYArtsnWords ( talk) 23:12, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
To limit the french culture to the metropolitan territory is ridiculous. French culture is culture from France (metropolitan and overseas) and in another way culture shared with others People around the world. By the way, Corsica is part of metropolitan France.
This article is far of the french perception of our culture —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.172.141.127 ( talk) 09:38, 27 May 2010 (UTC) blah.
Need to be updated with info from: Vers un catholicisme minoritaire (not a permalink) --Ann O'nyme 05:43, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Need also to be updated about other Christians in France than catholics (Lutherian and Calvinist mainly) 195.132.175.110 ( talk) 01:15, 17 May 2011 (UTC)Ecares
I don't think that the word culture should be defined here (with references to dictionaries, etc). There is a separate article about culture anyway —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.127.111.234 ( talk) 23:50, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
can i suggest the smoking figures are changed, i followed the link to the statistics, and theyre from 1998! this is 10 years ago, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6319649.stm - gives a total percentage at 26.1 % in january 2008. if you dont change them, then at least acknowledge that your statiscs are way outa date
kind regards Alexandre8 ( talk) 14:02, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
The first section "what is French culture" should be seriously emended as it seems to reflect only the views of the author. It states without any references that French culture is only the culture of metropolitan France and asserts a specific view of cultural identity over others. Such claims should be backed up by actual references or removed. In fact this entire section seems to be the expression of personal views on the subject and does not meet Wikipedia's standards in terms of neutrality and objectivity. A tag should at least be added in that regard. Askorahn ( talk) 16:07, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
"Rates of obesity and heart disease in France have traditionally been lower than in other north-western European countries"
well, by reading this sentence it seems that France is regarded as a north-western European country, or as a north European culture. Geographically it is a bit hard to accept, since France northernmost point hardly reach the north of Bavaria, and its southernmost point share the same latitudes than Rome; while the gravity center of the country lies at about northern Italian latitudes. It that being northern European?
Culturally speaking it is even more clear that France is not part of north-western Europe. North western European countries speak west Germanic languages, have a great impact of protestantism, surround the north sea (from where they share a common culture, for exemple in terms of food: beer/potatoe), France, as a romance spaking nation, traditionally catholic and that opens on the mediterranean sea can hardly be associated with "the other north-western European countries".
Generally speaking, I would find it a major point (that is completly ignored in this article) about french culture to place it among its natural cultural group within European culture. It is impossible to understand French culture and french people if we ignore what is the major root of its cultural identity: most of tipically french aspects of French culture are what they are because France is a latin/mediterranean rooted country (that doesn't help that it has some influences from its northern Neighbors). The exemple of differences of food customs that was the question in the sentence I quoted (in comparision to UK/Belgium/Netherlands/Germany ("north western Europe")), come from the fact that France is not derives from a germanic culture but from a latin one (I know this fact is hard to accept for some English-speaking people), by comparision with other "wine-based" countries such as Italy, France is no more different on that aspect (the so-called "french paradox" is a paradox only if France is thought to be to compare with north-western European countries, if compared to Italy France is not at all paradoxal).
France gets its latin culture firstly from the roman Empire (which gave it its language, but also created historically long-lasting links to Roman church), as well as other cultural heritage as family structures, and other (often more obvious in the southern half of the country) such as architecture, mediterranean urbanity (even Paris, despite being quite north relatively to the rest of the country, shows a density and other urban characteristics that can be usually found in cities that border the mediterranean), wine-culture, foods, etc.
Language proximity (and also cultural in general) with Spanish, Italian or Portuguese created a particular link to these countries/cultures (links that have expressed in the modern times in the fact that France had recieved huge numbers of imigrants from these countries since the 19th century, bringing with them part of their identity. This phenomenon of influences coming from other latin countries have deeply shaped many aspects of what is considered to be "tipically french", exist since a long time, especially from Italy: I'll give two exemples: french gastronomy and cooking technics has became what it is by the adaptation of the cooking Italian technics of renaissance. It is the same of the "jardind à la Française", seen as a tipical french thing has also its roots in the Italian renaissance gardens geometrical technics, adapted to the vegetation and relief of Ile-de-France.
On a other point many french cities have become major "hubs" of southern European culture meltings (Marseille, Lyon, but also Paris where are located the seat of the latin union), this link to the mediterranean world is even becoming closer with the influence of french population of north African origins. This implication of french culture in the mediterranean world is another major aspect of french culture that is completly ignored in the article.
Generally speaking I think this article is interesting, but seems to avoid the heart of the question about french culture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.224.59.166 ( talk) 14:41, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
can someone write something here about the scientific discoveries and inventions of french people? like scientists and mathematicians would be an interesting read. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sapherald ( talk • contribs) 07:05, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
I've had to protect the article from editing for two weeks from today, because of all the childish graffiti. Sorry about that. If you are an unregistered user and wish to add material to the article, please contact me on my talkpage and I'll take care of it for you. Bishonen | talk 17:32, 19 February 2010 (UTC).
This article - i.e. the section "Problems in defining "French" culture" with its unnecessary quotation marks in typical destructionist fashion - is extremely biased towards the propagation of the multiculturalist ideology and does not reflect the self-identification of the french people or the perception of french culture in french academia. I will therefore flag the article with the NPOV template. In my opinion the section in question should either be shortened and rewritten in a neutral tone or enterily removed as it is actually only an issue within obscure circles of the social sciences which are almost entirely motivated by their political views.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.49.231.244 ( talk) 14:23, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
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![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
I don't think there is national pride in France, individualism is strong in France so you are wrong. french who are proud to be french are rare. Nicoilas (french man)
everybody makes mistakes
Well, this article, in its current form, does a great deal to demonstrate the level of ignorance of Americans when it comes to European cultures. Language definitely creates major barriers to mutual understanding it seems. Mathieugp 02:56, 10 Mar 2004 (UTC)
TonyClarke 08:30, 10 Mar 2004 (UTC)
The word comes from "communauté", which can be straightly translated to communauty. It relates the idea of living through the rules of the "communauté" in which you are originated from. This often has an ethnical context. This word has appeared recently to due to the failed integration of maghreb immigrants, to qualify their specific way of life, and their refusal of the french culture, law, secularity, mores... It is not related in any way to communism. Edouard (another frenchmen).
I didn't know where to put the Language, Transportation and Social reform paragraphs, so I left them at the bottom of the page. They should be inserted somewhere else though or simply removed. Mathieugp 15:01, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Good structure, and the page should be a lot more informative when the headings are filled out. It should say a lot just from the title, also.
I wonder if some of the links would be better as sections of the main article, rather than separate articles. There was a big discussion about these alternatives (links or sections) a few months ago. I think somebody interested in one aspect of French culture would probably benefit from having other aspects of the culture in the same article, rather than to have to go off to another article to find out about something sililar to their original interest. Hope this makes sense!
TonyClarke 22:56, 11 Mar 2004 (UTC)~
The revolutionary ideal is a powerful totem in the French psyche. Some ideas of Situationism were realised in Disneyland Paris, although doubtless this would be denied by its builders. The French Revolution was itself an extreme form of social change, and its reverberations are everywhere apparent in day to day life there. Consider also the 1871 Paris Commune, and the 1968 student riots. Parallel to these events, it is possible to discern deeply conservative trends in French life.
This is very vague, POV, etc. Removed until we can write something more encyclopedic. David.Monniaux 02:26, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Why is there a whole section for one sentance? This should be expanded or intergrated elsewhere. - ChristopherMannMcKay 22:03, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
Only three little remarks about the sport chapter :
And actually, our real "national" sport is strike !
(sorry for my poor level in English !)
Your English is fine. Il est meilleur que mon français.-- Rob117 04:24, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
To me, the second sentence of the intro paragraph doesn't make a lot of grammatical sense. I changed it a while ago, and it was reverted to its previous state by an anon user. Does anyone else think that it should be changed? Also, do we need a link to "France" in that sentence, since there's already one in the previous sentence? Dariuspomaha 21:45, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
In trying to clean up and expand this article, I think we might take a hint from the organization of Culture of the United States which has some valid subsections:
Other subsections that could be added:
Thanks- NYArtsnWords ( talk) 01:06, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
I have moved the following material here, awaiting some references:
The material was added on 5/5/008. Please feel free to return the material once it has been sourced. Thanks - NYArtsnWords ( talk) 23:12, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
To limit the french culture to the metropolitan territory is ridiculous. French culture is culture from France (metropolitan and overseas) and in another way culture shared with others People around the world. By the way, Corsica is part of metropolitan France.
This article is far of the french perception of our culture —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.172.141.127 ( talk) 09:38, 27 May 2010 (UTC) blah.
Need to be updated with info from: Vers un catholicisme minoritaire (not a permalink) --Ann O'nyme 05:43, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Need also to be updated about other Christians in France than catholics (Lutherian and Calvinist mainly) 195.132.175.110 ( talk) 01:15, 17 May 2011 (UTC)Ecares
I don't think that the word culture should be defined here (with references to dictionaries, etc). There is a separate article about culture anyway —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.127.111.234 ( talk) 23:50, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
can i suggest the smoking figures are changed, i followed the link to the statistics, and theyre from 1998! this is 10 years ago, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6319649.stm - gives a total percentage at 26.1 % in january 2008. if you dont change them, then at least acknowledge that your statiscs are way outa date
kind regards Alexandre8 ( talk) 14:02, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
The first section "what is French culture" should be seriously emended as it seems to reflect only the views of the author. It states without any references that French culture is only the culture of metropolitan France and asserts a specific view of cultural identity over others. Such claims should be backed up by actual references or removed. In fact this entire section seems to be the expression of personal views on the subject and does not meet Wikipedia's standards in terms of neutrality and objectivity. A tag should at least be added in that regard. Askorahn ( talk) 16:07, 15 September 2009 (UTC)
"Rates of obesity and heart disease in France have traditionally been lower than in other north-western European countries"
well, by reading this sentence it seems that France is regarded as a north-western European country, or as a north European culture. Geographically it is a bit hard to accept, since France northernmost point hardly reach the north of Bavaria, and its southernmost point share the same latitudes than Rome; while the gravity center of the country lies at about northern Italian latitudes. It that being northern European?
Culturally speaking it is even more clear that France is not part of north-western Europe. North western European countries speak west Germanic languages, have a great impact of protestantism, surround the north sea (from where they share a common culture, for exemple in terms of food: beer/potatoe), France, as a romance spaking nation, traditionally catholic and that opens on the mediterranean sea can hardly be associated with "the other north-western European countries".
Generally speaking, I would find it a major point (that is completly ignored in this article) about french culture to place it among its natural cultural group within European culture. It is impossible to understand French culture and french people if we ignore what is the major root of its cultural identity: most of tipically french aspects of French culture are what they are because France is a latin/mediterranean rooted country (that doesn't help that it has some influences from its northern Neighbors). The exemple of differences of food customs that was the question in the sentence I quoted (in comparision to UK/Belgium/Netherlands/Germany ("north western Europe")), come from the fact that France is not derives from a germanic culture but from a latin one (I know this fact is hard to accept for some English-speaking people), by comparision with other "wine-based" countries such as Italy, France is no more different on that aspect (the so-called "french paradox" is a paradox only if France is thought to be to compare with north-western European countries, if compared to Italy France is not at all paradoxal).
France gets its latin culture firstly from the roman Empire (which gave it its language, but also created historically long-lasting links to Roman church), as well as other cultural heritage as family structures, and other (often more obvious in the southern half of the country) such as architecture, mediterranean urbanity (even Paris, despite being quite north relatively to the rest of the country, shows a density and other urban characteristics that can be usually found in cities that border the mediterranean), wine-culture, foods, etc.
Language proximity (and also cultural in general) with Spanish, Italian or Portuguese created a particular link to these countries/cultures (links that have expressed in the modern times in the fact that France had recieved huge numbers of imigrants from these countries since the 19th century, bringing with them part of their identity. This phenomenon of influences coming from other latin countries have deeply shaped many aspects of what is considered to be "tipically french", exist since a long time, especially from Italy: I'll give two exemples: french gastronomy and cooking technics has became what it is by the adaptation of the cooking Italian technics of renaissance. It is the same of the "jardind à la Française", seen as a tipical french thing has also its roots in the Italian renaissance gardens geometrical technics, adapted to the vegetation and relief of Ile-de-France.
On a other point many french cities have become major "hubs" of southern European culture meltings (Marseille, Lyon, but also Paris where are located the seat of the latin union), this link to the mediterranean world is even becoming closer with the influence of french population of north African origins. This implication of french culture in the mediterranean world is another major aspect of french culture that is completly ignored in the article.
Generally speaking I think this article is interesting, but seems to avoid the heart of the question about french culture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.224.59.166 ( talk) 14:41, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
can someone write something here about the scientific discoveries and inventions of french people? like scientists and mathematicians would be an interesting read. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sapherald ( talk • contribs) 07:05, 18 November 2009 (UTC)
I've had to protect the article from editing for two weeks from today, because of all the childish graffiti. Sorry about that. If you are an unregistered user and wish to add material to the article, please contact me on my talkpage and I'll take care of it for you. Bishonen | talk 17:32, 19 February 2010 (UTC).
This article - i.e. the section "Problems in defining "French" culture" with its unnecessary quotation marks in typical destructionist fashion - is extremely biased towards the propagation of the multiculturalist ideology and does not reflect the self-identification of the french people or the perception of french culture in french academia. I will therefore flag the article with the NPOV template. In my opinion the section in question should either be shortened and rewritten in a neutral tone or enterily removed as it is actually only an issue within obscure circles of the social sciences which are almost entirely motivated by their political views.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.49.231.244 ( talk) 14:23, 17 February 2014 (UTC)
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