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If religious formalism is going to redirect here, it shouldn't just be about Christianity (I got here from Confucius). Alternatively, Religious Formalism should have its own page that links here. JsePrometheus ( talk) 18:17, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
I made substantial changes to this article. I believe these make the article tighter, but some discussion is warranted.
Cultural Christian is broad term describing nominal Christians, individuals who would not generally be described as being active in their faith yet who identify themselves as Christian, were raised in a Christian family or community, or who adopted Christianity at some point in the past but have since exhibited less frequent or nonexistent practice of the religion. It is usually used in a negative sense and is often a term to describe someone whose understanding of Christianity is seen as underdeveloped, relative to a conceptual reference.
I rewrote to
Cultural Christian is a broad term describing individuals who identify themselves as Christian, but who generally would not be described by others as active in their faith. The term is usually used prejoratively by other Christians to describe individuals whose spiritual understanding they see as underdeveloped or superficial.
My reasoning being that the significant attribute of a cultural Christian is that they believe they are Christian, but that the one who is using the term to describe him does not consider them practicing. My (admittedly anecdotal) experience is that people who were raised as Christians and do not consider themselves to be Christians would be called "non-Christians", and not "cultural christians," even if they happened to listen to Christian music, etc.
I've personally never heard this term used by a non-Christian, but I'll allow that it is possible....
I have difficulties with the second paragraph, as I don't know how the term ethnic Jew compares. Judaism appears (from my outsider's perspective) to have a much more complicated and nuanced sense of identity than Christianity does. "Cultural Christian" is mostly a term rejecting Christians whose beliefs or practices are somehow not up to snuff, but an ethnic Jew can mean any number of things, or nothing at all. (See Who is a Jew?.) Because ethnic Jew doesn't seem to have a clear definition, I don't think it is illustrative to compare cultural Christian to the term. I've decided to drop the section entirely for now.
There is a particular form of cultural Christianity that acquires a very ethnic character. For instance, several Irish, Spanish, Italians and others may declare themselves proudly Catholic because of their ethnicity, while totally rejecting the official doctrinal positions of the Roman Catholic Church. This is a peculiar form of tribal Christianity that is a matter of concern for the Church because it is purely based on nationalism and tribalism, while having no clearly defined character in terms of institutional loyalty and theological faith. ADM ( talk) 05:10, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
I agree. It is a very similar situation in my ethnic country of Turkey as well. Most Turks, particularly among younger and middle-aged generations, are not religious, compared to the elderly. However there is still a pride in being Muslim. It is interesting to see Turkish Muslims drinking alcohol and dressing openly, but still expressing a tie to their Muslim heritage. Fasting for instance is still widespread during the holy month of Ramazan, despite people being largely unreligious during the rest of the year. Alcohol is usually abstained from in Ramazan as well, by those who would otherwise indulge. Personally I am a Turkish Atheist but I still enjoy seeing the Muslim parts of Turkish culture. 94.193.167.69 ( talk) 19:09, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
Christian culture is just that, the culture associated with Christian nations. The term "Cultural christian" otoh is a propaganda term, apparently used by fundamentalist Christians who believe you are not a Christian simply because you claim you are. You must embrace Lordship salvation and live on a principle of " WWJD" to qualify, or at least you need a "personal relationship with Jesus". This is clearly an extremist view of Christianity. For most of the history of the Christian religion (about a millennium), being a "cultural Christian" was the norm, i.e. being baptized and going to mass was sufficient, and having a "personal relationship with Jesus" was considered Christian mysticism on the brink of blasphemy. What makes this more complicated in the light of WP:SYNTH is the evidence that the same term is also used for propaganda by the naive brand of pop-atheism advocated by Dawkins et al. Which presents us with the weird situation that both extremes, Christian fundamentalism and ideological atheism, uses a single propaganda term for opposite ends. If this article is going to stand, it will need to be based on solid, scholarly secondary literature exploring this. -- dab (𒁳) 12:06, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
An editer removed my edit without giving a convincing reason, he claim that my edit was "of extreme minor significance for topic of article" it's trivial to mention this quotes here:
My edit was: Outspoken atheist Richard Dawkins has regards himself in number of interviews as a "Cultural Christian" and "Cultural Anglican". [1] [2] [3] [4]
this quotes was under a paragraph called "Usage" so i added that richard dawkins regards himself as cultural Christian in more than one interview, this quotes is in article called "cultural Christian" if this not the place for this quotes that the media mention it and as healine, and backed with sources then where is the place?.
I mean i added a quotes about well-known figure called himself Cultural Christian under paragraph called Usage it in article called Cultural Christian, Can you explain to me how it's is extreme minor significance for topic of article? and trivial to mention it.-- Jobas ( talk) 23:39, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
ok i see, but just a question my edit is different from what he said? and the sentences below is not conider to be reliable? this intersting that BBC is not a noteworthiness source!!!
BBC: ""This is historically a Christian country. I'm a cultural Christian in the same way many of my friends call themselves cultural Jews or cultural Muslims. "So, yes, I like singing carols along with everybody else. I'm not one of those who wants to purge our society of our Christian history. "If there's any threat these sorts of things, I think you will find it comes from rival religions and not from atheists."
- interview previewing his speech at Charleston College in South Carolina: Cultural Anglican, right? Yes, I guess I'm a cultural Anglican. But to tie that to belief about the origin of the universe, the origin of life, the nature of life, et cetera, is clearly ridiculous, and I don't think that the advantages of getting together once a week and singing together or something like that — insofar as that has community-building advantages, it most certainly does not need to go with fundamental beliefs about the cosmos. Those are separate and to be treated separately.
- : ".... I mean, many people call themselves Jews, including Herb Silverman. He's a Jewish atheist. He identifies with Jewish culture, believes he's a part of the Jewish tradition, and that's valuable. I guess I'm a cultural Christian".
- and on youtube when he cited on the tongue: I'm a cultural Christian in the same way many of my friends call themselves cultural Jews or cultural Muslims. -- Jobas ( talk) 00:55, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
in Anthropological Journal of European Cultures : http://books.google.co.il/books?id=IsOTtxVRIiUC&pg=PA284&dq=cultural+christian+richard+dawkins&hl=iw&sa=X&ei=oGpjUe_mO-be7Abbn4Fg&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=cultural%20christian%20richard%20dawkins&f=false "From a Darwinist perspective, militant atheist and “cultural Christian” richard Dawkins".-- Jobas ( talk) 01:45, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
I was baptised, I was raised in the Christian faith but lost it over my early teens. I am now an atheist with humanist sympathies. While I do not believe in God, the resurrection etc. I believe that Jesus was a pre-eminent moral teacher, and his philosophies of forgiveness, humility, generosity etc. are strong guiding principles for my own moral compass. I also draw some perpectives from other faiths - I believe the role of reliegion is most important in helping us understand our own nature, but I am also aware that it can be used pervert our higher ideals or impose one groups views on another. I celebrate major Christian festivals without feeling cynical as I am celebrating and remembering a great man. I will attend religious services (e.g. funerals, weddings Remembrance Day) but do not pray or consider my attendance to be an act of worship but one of respect and community. I hope that this very personal perspective is helpful and that it will be respected by those who may disagree with it, as I respect their views without agreeing. 79.75.156.180 ( talk) 17:43, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
References
A cursory glance at some sources seems to indicate that the phrase translated as "cultural Christian" in Chinese ( Chinese: 刘小枫) has a different meaning than given in this "Cultural Christian" article. Specifically, the phrase seems to be used to describe those who affirm Christian belief, but do not affiliate with a congregation. I do not have sufficiently clear sources to verify. Can anyone confirm or deny this definition? If it is correct, then the entire China section should probably be removed from this page. Daask ( talk) 14:35, 29 December 2019 (UTC)
![]() | This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
s
If religious formalism is going to redirect here, it shouldn't just be about Christianity (I got here from Confucius). Alternatively, Religious Formalism should have its own page that links here. JsePrometheus ( talk) 18:17, 22 May 2014 (UTC)
I made substantial changes to this article. I believe these make the article tighter, but some discussion is warranted.
Cultural Christian is broad term describing nominal Christians, individuals who would not generally be described as being active in their faith yet who identify themselves as Christian, were raised in a Christian family or community, or who adopted Christianity at some point in the past but have since exhibited less frequent or nonexistent practice of the religion. It is usually used in a negative sense and is often a term to describe someone whose understanding of Christianity is seen as underdeveloped, relative to a conceptual reference.
I rewrote to
Cultural Christian is a broad term describing individuals who identify themselves as Christian, but who generally would not be described by others as active in their faith. The term is usually used prejoratively by other Christians to describe individuals whose spiritual understanding they see as underdeveloped or superficial.
My reasoning being that the significant attribute of a cultural Christian is that they believe they are Christian, but that the one who is using the term to describe him does not consider them practicing. My (admittedly anecdotal) experience is that people who were raised as Christians and do not consider themselves to be Christians would be called "non-Christians", and not "cultural christians," even if they happened to listen to Christian music, etc.
I've personally never heard this term used by a non-Christian, but I'll allow that it is possible....
I have difficulties with the second paragraph, as I don't know how the term ethnic Jew compares. Judaism appears (from my outsider's perspective) to have a much more complicated and nuanced sense of identity than Christianity does. "Cultural Christian" is mostly a term rejecting Christians whose beliefs or practices are somehow not up to snuff, but an ethnic Jew can mean any number of things, or nothing at all. (See Who is a Jew?.) Because ethnic Jew doesn't seem to have a clear definition, I don't think it is illustrative to compare cultural Christian to the term. I've decided to drop the section entirely for now.
There is a particular form of cultural Christianity that acquires a very ethnic character. For instance, several Irish, Spanish, Italians and others may declare themselves proudly Catholic because of their ethnicity, while totally rejecting the official doctrinal positions of the Roman Catholic Church. This is a peculiar form of tribal Christianity that is a matter of concern for the Church because it is purely based on nationalism and tribalism, while having no clearly defined character in terms of institutional loyalty and theological faith. ADM ( talk) 05:10, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
I agree. It is a very similar situation in my ethnic country of Turkey as well. Most Turks, particularly among younger and middle-aged generations, are not religious, compared to the elderly. However there is still a pride in being Muslim. It is interesting to see Turkish Muslims drinking alcohol and dressing openly, but still expressing a tie to their Muslim heritage. Fasting for instance is still widespread during the holy month of Ramazan, despite people being largely unreligious during the rest of the year. Alcohol is usually abstained from in Ramazan as well, by those who would otherwise indulge. Personally I am a Turkish Atheist but I still enjoy seeing the Muslim parts of Turkish culture. 94.193.167.69 ( talk) 19:09, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
Christian culture is just that, the culture associated with Christian nations. The term "Cultural christian" otoh is a propaganda term, apparently used by fundamentalist Christians who believe you are not a Christian simply because you claim you are. You must embrace Lordship salvation and live on a principle of " WWJD" to qualify, or at least you need a "personal relationship with Jesus". This is clearly an extremist view of Christianity. For most of the history of the Christian religion (about a millennium), being a "cultural Christian" was the norm, i.e. being baptized and going to mass was sufficient, and having a "personal relationship with Jesus" was considered Christian mysticism on the brink of blasphemy. What makes this more complicated in the light of WP:SYNTH is the evidence that the same term is also used for propaganda by the naive brand of pop-atheism advocated by Dawkins et al. Which presents us with the weird situation that both extremes, Christian fundamentalism and ideological atheism, uses a single propaganda term for opposite ends. If this article is going to stand, it will need to be based on solid, scholarly secondary literature exploring this. -- dab (𒁳) 12:06, 24 July 2011 (UTC)
An editer removed my edit without giving a convincing reason, he claim that my edit was "of extreme minor significance for topic of article" it's trivial to mention this quotes here:
My edit was: Outspoken atheist Richard Dawkins has regards himself in number of interviews as a "Cultural Christian" and "Cultural Anglican". [1] [2] [3] [4]
this quotes was under a paragraph called "Usage" so i added that richard dawkins regards himself as cultural Christian in more than one interview, this quotes is in article called "cultural Christian" if this not the place for this quotes that the media mention it and as healine, and backed with sources then where is the place?.
I mean i added a quotes about well-known figure called himself Cultural Christian under paragraph called Usage it in article called Cultural Christian, Can you explain to me how it's is extreme minor significance for topic of article? and trivial to mention it.-- Jobas ( talk) 23:39, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
ok i see, but just a question my edit is different from what he said? and the sentences below is not conider to be reliable? this intersting that BBC is not a noteworthiness source!!!
BBC: ""This is historically a Christian country. I'm a cultural Christian in the same way many of my friends call themselves cultural Jews or cultural Muslims. "So, yes, I like singing carols along with everybody else. I'm not one of those who wants to purge our society of our Christian history. "If there's any threat these sorts of things, I think you will find it comes from rival religions and not from atheists."
- interview previewing his speech at Charleston College in South Carolina: Cultural Anglican, right? Yes, I guess I'm a cultural Anglican. But to tie that to belief about the origin of the universe, the origin of life, the nature of life, et cetera, is clearly ridiculous, and I don't think that the advantages of getting together once a week and singing together or something like that — insofar as that has community-building advantages, it most certainly does not need to go with fundamental beliefs about the cosmos. Those are separate and to be treated separately.
- : ".... I mean, many people call themselves Jews, including Herb Silverman. He's a Jewish atheist. He identifies with Jewish culture, believes he's a part of the Jewish tradition, and that's valuable. I guess I'm a cultural Christian".
- and on youtube when he cited on the tongue: I'm a cultural Christian in the same way many of my friends call themselves cultural Jews or cultural Muslims. -- Jobas ( talk) 00:55, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
in Anthropological Journal of European Cultures : http://books.google.co.il/books?id=IsOTtxVRIiUC&pg=PA284&dq=cultural+christian+richard+dawkins&hl=iw&sa=X&ei=oGpjUe_mO-be7Abbn4Fg&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=cultural%20christian%20richard%20dawkins&f=false "From a Darwinist perspective, militant atheist and “cultural Christian” richard Dawkins".-- Jobas ( talk) 01:45, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
I was baptised, I was raised in the Christian faith but lost it over my early teens. I am now an atheist with humanist sympathies. While I do not believe in God, the resurrection etc. I believe that Jesus was a pre-eminent moral teacher, and his philosophies of forgiveness, humility, generosity etc. are strong guiding principles for my own moral compass. I also draw some perpectives from other faiths - I believe the role of reliegion is most important in helping us understand our own nature, but I am also aware that it can be used pervert our higher ideals or impose one groups views on another. I celebrate major Christian festivals without feeling cynical as I am celebrating and remembering a great man. I will attend religious services (e.g. funerals, weddings Remembrance Day) but do not pray or consider my attendance to be an act of worship but one of respect and community. I hope that this very personal perspective is helpful and that it will be respected by those who may disagree with it, as I respect their views without agreeing. 79.75.156.180 ( talk) 17:43, 2 October 2020 (UTC)
References
A cursory glance at some sources seems to indicate that the phrase translated as "cultural Christian" in Chinese ( Chinese: 刘小枫) has a different meaning than given in this "Cultural Christian" article. Specifically, the phrase seems to be used to describe those who affirm Christian belief, but do not affiliate with a congregation. I do not have sufficiently clear sources to verify. Can anyone confirm or deny this definition? If it is correct, then the entire China section should probably be removed from this page. Daask ( talk) 14:35, 29 December 2019 (UTC)