This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Crystal Palace F.C. article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | Crystal Palace F.C. has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Current status: Good article |
![]() | This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. |
Re: History of original . To add more detail to your Crystal Palace FC Eagles club badge article. During 1973 I, Keith Payne, was the official club photographer also designing Crystal Palace "splash badges" for sewing onto track suit tops and working under Commercial Manager Tony Shaw at that time. Malcolm Allison who had just joined Crystal Palace as Team Manager was telling me that "the Glaziers" was a boring nickname and we wanted somethin more appealing like "the Eagles" eg., like the name used by Benfica Eagles of Portugal. With that I designed a "splash badge" with an Eagle sitting atop the old glaziers mofif so the history would not be lost. Allison liked the "splash badge" and it immediately became the new "Club Badge" and worn on the player's shirts. Obviously it has been modified a few times since then but it was the very first and hence the "eagles" fanfare at all matches we played. Keith Payne ex Crystal Palace Club photographer.
Given there has been a revert war, can we discuss this properly? I'd remove it, for 2 reasons:
"The United League was founded in 1896 to provide additional mid-week fixtures for teams drawn from a number of leagues." and "The League was re-formed in 1905 solely as a secondary competition for Southern League teams, although membership soon dwindled" Spike 'em ( talk) 09:42, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
References
I've reverted 4-5 changes recently where editors have added/changed shirt-numbers. At present time, CP are on a pre-season tour, but have not announced which numbers players will wear during the season. There is no guarantee that players will keep the numbers assigned on tour (e.g. I noticed on a CPFC tweeted team sheet that a fringe player played in no. 20 which was used last season by Jonny Williams, who is not on the tour, but is still with the club)). The relevant section of the club website [1] doesn't even list the new players. Last year they made a formal announcement on 24th July [2], until they do the same this pre-season I don't think we should change any numbers, as otherwise fails WP:VERIFY Spike 'em ( talk) 13:59, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
I have just reverted 3 more changes, including one for a player who hasn't appeared for the club yet (Mandanda). Players may have a preferred number from previous clubs, but until we are told about it we can't use it. Please provide source that says Palace will use it and I will stop doing this. Spike 'em ( talk) 16:16, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
I adapted this from the Ipswich Town page and would suggest adding similar here:
<!----------------------------- READ THIS NOTICE FIRST BEFORE EDITING ----------------------------------
– Do NOT add new players before their signing is officially announced by the club through the Crystal Palace F.C. website,
including medical and signing the contract.
– Do NOT remove players before their exit is officially announced by the club.
– Do NOT add or change squad numbers until it is official on the Crystal Palace F.C. website.
– Only add numberless players that are new signings or youth players who have become part of the first team.
– Pre-season numbers can be added temporarily with A REFERENCE.
– This is Wikipedia, not a football gazette. Anything unconfirmed and unsourced will be removed on sight.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------>
or a shorter version on Arsenal page:
<!-- Any changes not listed on http://www.arsenal.com/first-team/players will be removed
All edits must meet Wikipedia's verifiability policy-->
Spike 'em (
talk)
19:19, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
On related point, should video on club website count as a source? Have changed captaincy based on Pardew saying so on a club video, so please feel free to revert if this is not reliable enough! Spike 'em ( talk) 17:38, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
References
I've just started discussion on ground page : Where is ground located? Spike 'em ( talk) 14:20, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion at WP:FOOTY about the club claims to be founded in 1861, please discuss further there before changing the foundation date on the article. Spike 'em ( talk) 10:36, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
Given the club is raising this again: WP relies on reliable secondary sources for verification. This does not include the club, which is not neutral in this regard. Despite what has been said in edit summary, I have not seen any news reports that the FA nor the PL have endorsed the club's claims. Spike 'em ( talk) 21:34, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
1861The Trust asked about the recent confirmation of the historical development information of the Club and changes to badges etc. Although some evidence for this date existed it did not seem it was universally accepted. The Club were convinced of the validity of the date and the Club historian supported the position. Changes to badges etc. had to go through certain FA procedures and the new badge had done this, so the Club indicated there was FA acceptance of their position.There is no way that minutes of a meeting with the club which represents the club's view of the FA's position is a reliable / independent source. Spike 'em ( talk) 15:44, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In the Statistics and records section of this page Change X ... "They are also the only club ever to be relegated from the Premier League even though they finished fourth from bottom, as it had been decided that at the end of the 1994–95 season, the bottom four clubs would be relegated in order to accommodate the league being reduced from 22 to 20 clubs for the 1995–96 season; " ...to Y see wording below They are also the only club ever to be relegated from the Premier League even though they finished fourth from bottom, as it had been decided that at the end of the 1994–95 season, the bottom four clubs would be relegated in order to accommodate the league being reduced from 22 to 20 clubs for the 1995–96 season; Chelsea were also relegated from after finishing 4th from bottom in 1988 (18th in a 21 team division) although ultimately Chelsea's relegation was confirmed via the play-off system. Camberwellse5 ( talk) 15:25, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
Not done: please provide
reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.
HeartGlow
(talk)
04:50, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Under History > Into the Football League (1920-58), is the sentence “This achievement meant they joined Preston North End, Small Heath, Liverpool and Bury as the only clubs to win a championship in their first season as a league club.“
Suggest the addition of “, a feat since only matched by Peterborough United in 1960-1” 86.159.109.181 ( talk) 12:31, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
I have rewritten the paragraph on the current ownership of the club, which wasn't cited. It specified the ownership split post-takeover as written the accounts but it was not cited.
I am not aware of any useful sources as to the ownership of the club, although it is generally presumed to be owned by Parish, Harris and Blitzer in equal measures. This may have previously been true but it is not disclosed in the accounts or on Companies House. I am therefore not aware of any sources that aren't primary (i.e. from the club or Parish himself). I am not even aware of any primary sources that are recent and the clearest one I can find is the forum post cited, from Jan 2017.
It may be reasonable to remove the sentences on the forum post and replace it with a line about the general presumption as to the ownership. However I still think it is notable enough as a citation.
I have replaced the list of owners in the box at the top of the page with "Undisclosed" as the ownership is certainly undisclosed officially. I do not believe we should accept unverified primary sources as to the ownership since there is an obvious potential bias in Parish's statements regarding ownership. I could not find the evidence of ownership on the page cited, which again was the official CPFC website so should not be used anyway.
I think this is important - given the uncertainty over the ownership, it is very likely that people will take what is written on Wikipedia as generally accepted fact. The reality is that it is clearly (intentionally) difficult to determine who really owns Palace and to what degree.
81.111.45.250 ( talk) 12:24, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
Should the Crystals cheerleaders be mentioned in this article? DeathTrain ( talk) 21:39, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
The club announced a new official logo on their website on 18 June 2022, here. The only difference from the previous logo, is that the foundation year is now displayed as '1861'.
Also, they are already using the new logo on various other places within their website, and on their social media pages. An example being on their official Facebook page, here. Craig Andrew1 ( talk) 23:26, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
We need to stop referring to the official website. It is a disgrace. Nothing is updated properly! For example thete is a player still listed in the under 21 squad who left months ago!! I think it was Lewis Brown who joined Bristol Rovers. Also nationalities are wrong and playing positions are incorrect. Marcus Hill in the under 18's is a goalkeeper not a midfielder!! It is a disgrace. Nothing is updated properly!!! Also I think we should leave the players in the under 21 squad listed ( but correctly listed!! not as the website with its errors!!), unless the player becomes over-age to the Under 21's and part of the first team set up or leaves the club. Don Eadier ( talk) 21:52, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
Greetings, all. The information on how the club got its current nickname, The Eagles, is offered in duplicate: once in the section "Bouncing between the divisions (1973–1984)" and one more time in "Colours and crest." Surely, it should be consolidated in a single part of the article. I won't to that effect, leaving the effort to those more familiar with the club's affairs. - The Gnome ( talk) 19:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Crystal Palace F.C. article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | Crystal Palace F.C. has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Current status: Good article |
![]() | This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This edit request by an editor with a conflict of interest was declined. |
Re: History of original . To add more detail to your Crystal Palace FC Eagles club badge article. During 1973 I, Keith Payne, was the official club photographer also designing Crystal Palace "splash badges" for sewing onto track suit tops and working under Commercial Manager Tony Shaw at that time. Malcolm Allison who had just joined Crystal Palace as Team Manager was telling me that "the Glaziers" was a boring nickname and we wanted somethin more appealing like "the Eagles" eg., like the name used by Benfica Eagles of Portugal. With that I designed a "splash badge" with an Eagle sitting atop the old glaziers mofif so the history would not be lost. Allison liked the "splash badge" and it immediately became the new "Club Badge" and worn on the player's shirts. Obviously it has been modified a few times since then but it was the very first and hence the "eagles" fanfare at all matches we played. Keith Payne ex Crystal Palace Club photographer.
Given there has been a revert war, can we discuss this properly? I'd remove it, for 2 reasons:
"The United League was founded in 1896 to provide additional mid-week fixtures for teams drawn from a number of leagues." and "The League was re-formed in 1905 solely as a secondary competition for Southern League teams, although membership soon dwindled" Spike 'em ( talk) 09:42, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
References
I've reverted 4-5 changes recently where editors have added/changed shirt-numbers. At present time, CP are on a pre-season tour, but have not announced which numbers players will wear during the season. There is no guarantee that players will keep the numbers assigned on tour (e.g. I noticed on a CPFC tweeted team sheet that a fringe player played in no. 20 which was used last season by Jonny Williams, who is not on the tour, but is still with the club)). The relevant section of the club website [1] doesn't even list the new players. Last year they made a formal announcement on 24th July [2], until they do the same this pre-season I don't think we should change any numbers, as otherwise fails WP:VERIFY Spike 'em ( talk) 13:59, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
I have just reverted 3 more changes, including one for a player who hasn't appeared for the club yet (Mandanda). Players may have a preferred number from previous clubs, but until we are told about it we can't use it. Please provide source that says Palace will use it and I will stop doing this. Spike 'em ( talk) 16:16, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
I adapted this from the Ipswich Town page and would suggest adding similar here:
<!----------------------------- READ THIS NOTICE FIRST BEFORE EDITING ----------------------------------
– Do NOT add new players before their signing is officially announced by the club through the Crystal Palace F.C. website,
including medical and signing the contract.
– Do NOT remove players before their exit is officially announced by the club.
– Do NOT add or change squad numbers until it is official on the Crystal Palace F.C. website.
– Only add numberless players that are new signings or youth players who have become part of the first team.
– Pre-season numbers can be added temporarily with A REFERENCE.
– This is Wikipedia, not a football gazette. Anything unconfirmed and unsourced will be removed on sight.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------>
or a shorter version on Arsenal page:
<!-- Any changes not listed on http://www.arsenal.com/first-team/players will be removed
All edits must meet Wikipedia's verifiability policy-->
Spike 'em (
talk)
19:19, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
On related point, should video on club website count as a source? Have changed captaincy based on Pardew saying so on a club video, so please feel free to revert if this is not reliable enough! Spike 'em ( talk) 17:38, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
References
I've just started discussion on ground page : Where is ground located? Spike 'em ( talk) 14:20, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion at WP:FOOTY about the club claims to be founded in 1861, please discuss further there before changing the foundation date on the article. Spike 'em ( talk) 10:36, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
Given the club is raising this again: WP relies on reliable secondary sources for verification. This does not include the club, which is not neutral in this regard. Despite what has been said in edit summary, I have not seen any news reports that the FA nor the PL have endorsed the club's claims. Spike 'em ( talk) 21:34, 19 June 2022 (UTC)
1861The Trust asked about the recent confirmation of the historical development information of the Club and changes to badges etc. Although some evidence for this date existed it did not seem it was universally accepted. The Club were convinced of the validity of the date and the Club historian supported the position. Changes to badges etc. had to go through certain FA procedures and the new badge had done this, so the Club indicated there was FA acceptance of their position.There is no way that minutes of a meeting with the club which represents the club's view of the FA's position is a reliable / independent source. Spike 'em ( talk) 15:44, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In the Statistics and records section of this page Change X ... "They are also the only club ever to be relegated from the Premier League even though they finished fourth from bottom, as it had been decided that at the end of the 1994–95 season, the bottom four clubs would be relegated in order to accommodate the league being reduced from 22 to 20 clubs for the 1995–96 season; " ...to Y see wording below They are also the only club ever to be relegated from the Premier League even though they finished fourth from bottom, as it had been decided that at the end of the 1994–95 season, the bottom four clubs would be relegated in order to accommodate the league being reduced from 22 to 20 clubs for the 1995–96 season; Chelsea were also relegated from after finishing 4th from bottom in 1988 (18th in a 21 team division) although ultimately Chelsea's relegation was confirmed via the play-off system. Camberwellse5 ( talk) 15:25, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
Not done: please provide
reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.
HeartGlow
(talk)
04:50, 20 August 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Under History > Into the Football League (1920-58), is the sentence “This achievement meant they joined Preston North End, Small Heath, Liverpool and Bury as the only clubs to win a championship in their first season as a league club.“
Suggest the addition of “, a feat since only matched by Peterborough United in 1960-1” 86.159.109.181 ( talk) 12:31, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
I have rewritten the paragraph on the current ownership of the club, which wasn't cited. It specified the ownership split post-takeover as written the accounts but it was not cited.
I am not aware of any useful sources as to the ownership of the club, although it is generally presumed to be owned by Parish, Harris and Blitzer in equal measures. This may have previously been true but it is not disclosed in the accounts or on Companies House. I am therefore not aware of any sources that aren't primary (i.e. from the club or Parish himself). I am not even aware of any primary sources that are recent and the clearest one I can find is the forum post cited, from Jan 2017.
It may be reasonable to remove the sentences on the forum post and replace it with a line about the general presumption as to the ownership. However I still think it is notable enough as a citation.
I have replaced the list of owners in the box at the top of the page with "Undisclosed" as the ownership is certainly undisclosed officially. I do not believe we should accept unverified primary sources as to the ownership since there is an obvious potential bias in Parish's statements regarding ownership. I could not find the evidence of ownership on the page cited, which again was the official CPFC website so should not be used anyway.
I think this is important - given the uncertainty over the ownership, it is very likely that people will take what is written on Wikipedia as generally accepted fact. The reality is that it is clearly (intentionally) difficult to determine who really owns Palace and to what degree.
81.111.45.250 ( talk) 12:24, 7 March 2021 (UTC)
Should the Crystals cheerleaders be mentioned in this article? DeathTrain ( talk) 21:39, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
The club announced a new official logo on their website on 18 June 2022, here. The only difference from the previous logo, is that the foundation year is now displayed as '1861'.
Also, they are already using the new logo on various other places within their website, and on their social media pages. An example being on their official Facebook page, here. Craig Andrew1 ( talk) 23:26, 22 June 2022 (UTC)
We need to stop referring to the official website. It is a disgrace. Nothing is updated properly! For example thete is a player still listed in the under 21 squad who left months ago!! I think it was Lewis Brown who joined Bristol Rovers. Also nationalities are wrong and playing positions are incorrect. Marcus Hill in the under 18's is a goalkeeper not a midfielder!! It is a disgrace. Nothing is updated properly!!! Also I think we should leave the players in the under 21 squad listed ( but correctly listed!! not as the website with its errors!!), unless the player becomes over-age to the Under 21's and part of the first team set up or leaves the club. Don Eadier ( talk) 21:52, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
Greetings, all. The information on how the club got its current nickname, The Eagles, is offered in duplicate: once in the section "Bouncing between the divisions (1973–1984)" and one more time in "Colours and crest." Surely, it should be consolidated in a single part of the article. I won't to that effect, leaving the effort to those more familiar with the club's affairs. - The Gnome ( talk) 19:53, 31 March 2024 (UTC)