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An order for the breaking up and sale of the Crown Jewels was made by Parliament in 1649. Cromwell had no authority to make such orders himself. In that year, Cromwell was a Member of Parliament and a member of the English Council of State (later known as the Protector's Privy Council). Although Cromwell led some military campaigns on behalf of the Parliamentary cause, he was not the leader of Parliament, and England was effectively governed by committee until he became Lord Protector in 1653. None of the many authoritative books in my possession about the Crown Jewels, which I have been researching for the past three years, states that Cromwell made the order or that the Jewels were sold "under Cromwell" (whose 'regime' began four years later), despite what lazy pro-monarchy (and thus anti-Cromwell) sources on the internet say. Firebrace ( talk) 17:56, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
For the record I wish to note that contrary to WP:DR Wikiuser100 issued the hitherto uninvolved administrator User:RegentsPark with an ultimatum (paraphrasing): "Please come and help me win this edit war, or I'll quit Wikipedia. You don't want that on your conscience do you? Thanks in advance" ( link). This behaviour is completely unacceptable. I have reverted the changes owing to lack of consensus. Firebrace ( talk) 00:31, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
Wikiuser100 has brought to my attention a page at the National Archives that states "Oliver Cromwell ordered that the orb and sceptres should be broken as they stood for the detestable rule of kings'" ( link), and the Royal family website, which states: "In 1649 Cromwell ordered that the Royal regalia 'be totally broken' as being symbolic of the 'detestable rule of kings'" ( link).
I'm not surprised Royal family would attribute the destruction of the Crown Jewels to their popular hate figure Oliver Cromwell. The page contains other factual errors, such as "During the Second World War the jewels were hidden in a secret location which has never been disclosed". Another white lie: In her 1997 biography Princess Margaret tells the story of how George VI took her and Princess Elizabeth down into the Windsor Castle basement to see the Crown Jewels. In 2018 the wartime hiding place was confirmed by independent research of documents held in the Royal library.
As for the National Archives, that is a worksheet for school children aged 11–14. It also says "two new sceptres and an orb costing £12,185 were made for the coronation of Charles II". Actually, this was the cost of all the regalia. Not what I call a reliable source for an encyclopedia.
Firebrace ( talk) 15:26, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
He is not standing next to king edwards crown, he is staning next to tudor crown 217.68.80.54 ( talk) 10:48, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
@ Firebrace: Thanks for finding a source for Damascus steel. I'm not sure however when they refer to damascus steel, if they are referring to the older "true" Damascus steel made in the near east or simply patterned welded steel. It seems likely that it would be the later as the sword was created in 1820 and in the UK, but I can't find a source clarifying the matter. Do you have any thoughts on this? Safes007 ( talk) 05:19, 18 May 2023 (UTC)
This is the
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Crown Jewels of the United Kingdom article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Archives: 1 |
Crown Jewels of the United Kingdom has been listed as one of the History good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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There is a request, submitted by Catfurball, for an audio version of this article to be created. For further information, see WikiProject Spoken Wikipedia. The rationale behind the request is: "Important". |
An order for the breaking up and sale of the Crown Jewels was made by Parliament in 1649. Cromwell had no authority to make such orders himself. In that year, Cromwell was a Member of Parliament and a member of the English Council of State (later known as the Protector's Privy Council). Although Cromwell led some military campaigns on behalf of the Parliamentary cause, he was not the leader of Parliament, and England was effectively governed by committee until he became Lord Protector in 1653. None of the many authoritative books in my possession about the Crown Jewels, which I have been researching for the past three years, states that Cromwell made the order or that the Jewels were sold "under Cromwell" (whose 'regime' began four years later), despite what lazy pro-monarchy (and thus anti-Cromwell) sources on the internet say. Firebrace ( talk) 17:56, 10 March 2019 (UTC)
For the record I wish to note that contrary to WP:DR Wikiuser100 issued the hitherto uninvolved administrator User:RegentsPark with an ultimatum (paraphrasing): "Please come and help me win this edit war, or I'll quit Wikipedia. You don't want that on your conscience do you? Thanks in advance" ( link). This behaviour is completely unacceptable. I have reverted the changes owing to lack of consensus. Firebrace ( talk) 00:31, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
Wikiuser100 has brought to my attention a page at the National Archives that states "Oliver Cromwell ordered that the orb and sceptres should be broken as they stood for the detestable rule of kings'" ( link), and the Royal family website, which states: "In 1649 Cromwell ordered that the Royal regalia 'be totally broken' as being symbolic of the 'detestable rule of kings'" ( link).
I'm not surprised Royal family would attribute the destruction of the Crown Jewels to their popular hate figure Oliver Cromwell. The page contains other factual errors, such as "During the Second World War the jewels were hidden in a secret location which has never been disclosed". Another white lie: In her 1997 biography Princess Margaret tells the story of how George VI took her and Princess Elizabeth down into the Windsor Castle basement to see the Crown Jewels. In 2018 the wartime hiding place was confirmed by independent research of documents held in the Royal library.
As for the National Archives, that is a worksheet for school children aged 11–14. It also says "two new sceptres and an orb costing £12,185 were made for the coronation of Charles II". Actually, this was the cost of all the regalia. Not what I call a reliable source for an encyclopedia.
Firebrace ( talk) 15:26, 11 March 2019 (UTC)
He is not standing next to king edwards crown, he is staning next to tudor crown 217.68.80.54 ( talk) 10:48, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
@ Firebrace: Thanks for finding a source for Damascus steel. I'm not sure however when they refer to damascus steel, if they are referring to the older "true" Damascus steel made in the near east or simply patterned welded steel. It seems likely that it would be the later as the sword was created in 1820 and in the UK, but I can't find a source clarifying the matter. Do you have any thoughts on this? Safes007 ( talk) 05:19, 18 May 2023 (UTC)