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Nice little article. I wikified a few technical geology and geography terms to make it more accessible. Nice work. Oh and it's so nice to see an article with an empty talk page! Pascal.Tesson 06:41, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
JPS. The images contribute significantly to the GA status and were present when it was a GA candidate. If you can replace them with something better, then that is fine. Otherwise, please leave them be. best wishes. Bob BScar23625 17:03, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
ps. Just out of interest. You removed images containing either myself or my son. Yet you left the image containing my daughter. Why was that?. best wishes Bob BScar23625 17:07, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
JPS. The images contribute significantly to the article. Take them in turn :
The people that appear in them are incidental. If you want to go up there and take replacement images without people in them, then that is fine by me. But please replace the images, do not just remove them. best wishes. Bob BScar23625 18:28, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
ps As an aside, there was a similar discussion on the Helvellyn article, when two of my images were replaced. I have no problem with people improving on images I have inserted - but arbitrary deletion is another matter. Bob BScar23625 18:33, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
pps As a further aside, the next time there is fair weather on a weekend, I plan to go up to Cross Fell summit. If you wish, I will meet you at Kirkland and we can go up together. You can bring your camera and take pictures without people in them. Let me know. Bob BScar23625 18:46, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
In my opinion, images that show features of the landscape should not focus on people in the foreground. This is distracting. However, until we get better images, we can use these. I’ve removed the people from Image:Cf1.JPG and Image:Crossf4.JPG (using GIMP and [1]) and I think Image:Crossf3.jpg may be OK, simply to give the viewer a sense of scale. I realise my modifications mean some loss in quality (and, in the first case, also an extra bit of artistic freedom in adding some rocks to the pile), but I think this is viable until somebody makes replacements. By the way, if somebody is going to make new photographs, a higher resolution would be nice. Even if the images in the article itself are small, some people might want to see more details. — xyzzy n 01:23, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
xyzzy. People in images are often essential in order to give scale. For example take the following image which appears in bothe the Cross Fell and Scree articles.
The image is of a geological feature known as "tallus", which is a form of scree composed of large boulders. Take out the person (which happens to be me) and you couldn't tell whether the rocks are 3 metre boulders (which they are) or only 2cm pepples. That is the extreme case - but much the same could be siad of the other images (with one exception).
In any event, I don't like fake images. So, perhaps the images can stay as they are until someone can substitute better ones?. best wishes. Bob BScar23625 07:54, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
xyzzy. Your adjustments are just distortions. Sorry to put it like that, but .... . I make the same offer to you that I did to JPS. I will guide you up to the summit and you can take your camera. E-mail me if you want to take me up on this. best wishes. Bob BScar23625 15:40, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Blisco. As per our earlier discussion on the Helvellyn article, I have no problem with my amateur efforts being replaced by good, professional standard images. I am not too keen on aerial photographs, but that may be just a personal preference. I agree with you that "doctored" images should never be used. best wishes. Bob BScar23625 09:55, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Chaps, some general comments.
My view is that doctored images should never be used in any form of publication. You can move mountains around, add trees, add smoke and adjust the position of the sun in an image - but the result emerging from this process is a fake. It is worthless.
The position on aerial photographs is also unsatisfactory. An aerial photograph of a mountain amounts to little more than a map and rarely does justice to its subject. The aerial photograph in the Helvellyn article could be that of any mountain. It looks bland, low and lacks any context. A proper mountain picture should be taken from ground level - which is where 99.9% of people see it from and from where its proper context and atmosphere are apparent. regards. Bob BScar23625 16:09, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
xyzzy. The problem with your adjustments is that what you produce is not real. You may remember the recent case of a news journalist who produced an image from the Gulf War showing the aftermath of an American air strike in northern Iraq. He produced an image being a composite of 3 pictures and then embellished it with some extra smoke and flames. He sold the product of this exercise for a substantial sum to various newspapers. But when the facts became known he was sacked and blacklisted.
If you want to take some good pictures, then I will be happy to guide you up to the summit of Cross Fell. There have been a few casualties up there in recent years, but I am a reliable guide and you can trust me to get you up and down safely. You will then have the personal satisfaction of knowing that you have taken real images as a product of your own efforts. regards. Bob BScar23625 16:44, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
xyzzy. Well, if you don't want to come to England, then perhaps you should avoid such a peculiarly English issue?. The trouble is that your edits of my pictures are just distortions. If you can substitute better images, then that is fine - but as it is .... . best wishes. Bob BScar23625 17:02, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
xyzzy. The problem with your latest effort is that not only is it fake, but .... it is almost unviewable. If you want to create pictures of Cross Fell, then you should take the trouble to climb it yourself. best wishes. Bob BScar23625 17:14, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Chaps. This could run and run, but let us leave it there for now. As far as I am concerned, the lead image on the article is a fake. I will put a health warning on it to that effect. Bob BScar23625 15:55, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
ps. Actually, I am not so sure that the image now shown in the article is an altered version of mine. It looks different and purports (in its licensing) to have been taken by one Charles Rispin on 26 September 2006. I guess that Charles Rispin must have stood on exactly the same spot that I did (the top of the summit shelter) to take the image. Can anyone enlighten me?. If it is a real image (and not just a brilliant fake), then please remove my health warning. Bob BScar23625 16:13, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
pps. I am now sure that the summit image now shown is a genuine one - and not a fake. I have removed the health warning. I don't know how this image got there, but I am not arguing. It is better than my original. I have banned myself from editing this article for 28 days. Bob BScar23625 16:26, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Is the sketch map alligned correctly? Little Dun Fell is broadly southeast of Cross Fell, but Great Dun Fell is south-southeast of Little Dun Fell. The sketch map makes them look closer to east-southeast, and gives the impression (to me at any rate) of being a predominately east–west ridge rather than a predominately north–south ridge. Also Cow Green is in the wrong place — it's shown as north of the ridge, in fact it's a little south of east. I don't mind loosing some accuracy by using stylised sketch maps, but this one seems misleading. — ras52 09:22, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Ras52. You are probably right. It was me that drew and inserted the sketch map and I will correct it some time. Thanks for mentioning the matter. Bob BScar23625 07:38, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
Sorry Mark, but I do not see how Helvellyn can be described as the parent peak of Cross Fell. The two are visible from each other in conditions of good visibility, but they are about 30km apart and separated by the Eden Valley. Cross Fell does not fall within the "territory" of Helvellyn for drainage purposes. Have you ever climbed Cross Fell?. best wishes Bob BScar23625 17:41, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
BScar23625, you might like to know that some general issues with the use of the 'Parent peak' infobox field are currently being discussed here. (Incidentally, although there are several different definitions of 'parent mountain' used to varying degrees, in this case all definitions agree that Helvellyn is Cross Fell's parent.) — ras52 13:39, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Chaps. The relevant section from Topographical prominence (recently revised by Mark) reads "It is common to define a peak's parent as a particular peak in the higher terrain connected to the peak by the key col". One might only decribe H as CF's parent peak if the two were in the same block of higher terrain, which they are not. Bob BScar23625 15:52, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Chaps. I don't accept that it is even mathematically correct to claim that H is the parent peak of CF. The two are in entirely different blocks of high ground and one might just as easily claim that Ben Nevis is the parent peak of CF. Bob BScar23625 17:59, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Anyway, I understand your suspicions over the fact that Cross Fell and Helvellyn are clearly on different mountain ranges. However, in many areas the boundaries between mountain ranges are not so easily drawn and decisions about where one range ends and another begins have to be largely arbitrary. This would inevitably lead to arguing over whether a peak 'deserves' to have a parent or not. To avoid such arguments, the rule was made (not by me, I hasten to add!) that every peak has a parent. And going by that, the parent of Cross Fell quite simply is Helvellyn (as ras52 demonstrated above.) So there you go.
I hope we can settle this. Any thoughts you two? Mark J 20:04, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Mark. Where has this "rule" that every peak must have a parent come from?. Is this a Wikipedia rule or what?. I can only repeat that CF and H are in ranges that are both topographically and geologically separate. Please do not be offended if I ask whether there is any link between you and ras52. You both live in Cambridgeshire, and I wonder if you are father and son?. best wishes. Bob BScar23625 08:27, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Ras52. Thankyou for your swift response and I repeat that no offence was intended in my question to Mark. I just wanted to be sure that the two of you are not from the same household.
This rule you describe sounds far too complicated to make any sense. I think we both agree that there is no obvious meaning in describing H as the parent peak of CF. So, does it make any sense to .... . Bob BScar23625 09:38, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Lol, no, Ras52 isn't my parent, although he is probably higher and more prominent than me. :-) Can I ask for your opinion now, Ras52, as to whether the line should go back in the article now you've stated its certainty beyond all possible doubt? It probably should for consistency. Mark J 18:00, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I have reinstated the parent field (with its correct value: Helvellyn). This is one of very few articles on British mountain that lack this field, and in the name of consistency, I feel it should be included. Even with other mountains where the parent is quite distant (more distant than Cross Fell to Helvellyn), the parent is generally included. For example, start at Dunkery Beacon, the highest point of Exmoor, and follow the chain of parent peaks: High Willhays, Cross Fell, Helvellyn, Scafell Pike, Snowdon, Ben Nevis. The only one missing a parent field in the info box is this one. — ras52 ( talk) 15:52, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Richard. I will look forward to the day when we have a biblical flood. And I can stand on the Cross Fell summit shelter with the water lapping around my feet and I look out to see four small islands in the distance to the south west. Bob BScar23625 ( talk) 16:22, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
ras52. Your idea of a biblical flood with the sea level rising to a point where it is lapping around the top of Cross Fell is really great. Standing on top of the summit shelter (to keep your feet dry) there would be water on all sides - apart from 4 small islands being the tops of Helvellyn, Skiddaw, Scafell and Scafell Pike visible at a distance of around 25-50km. And as the waters fall, there would come a short-lived moment where CF and H would be connected as a single island while still just separate from Scafell island.
But do you realise that an 890m rise in sea level would require the volume of water in the oceans to increase by at least 35%? (my "back of envelope" calculation). I mean, it would require a lot more than the melting of the polar ice caps to achieve this result. I cannot even see a freak tsunami wave (caused by a meteorite strike) doing it. Bob BScar23625 14:46, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
This is the second time I have recitifed the private road status of GDF, as a NATS employee I think if anyone should have the final word on wether the public are permitted on driving up said road it should be me. In the future if you wish to change this area please contact me in advance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andehtw ( talk • contribs) 21:59, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
The mention of GDF in the introduction; is it really necessary there? It's an unrelated fell. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.26.219 ( talk) 16:23, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
I removed this reference in January, yet it was re-instated under the logic that 'if can be seen, then relevant'. Not to sound petty, but lots can be seen when viewing Cross Fell, which aren't relevant in any way.
In order to uphold the quality of
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GA criteria as part of the
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-- Malleus Fatuorum ( talk) 22:19, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
removed this : diff
==Routes to Cross Fell summit== [[File:Crossfellmap.JPG|left|thumb|Sketch map of the approaches to Cross Fell]] Cross Fell is crossed by the [[Pennine Way]] footpath en route from [[Dufton]] to [[Alston, Cumbria|Alston]]. Thus it may be climbed either from [[Dufton]] to the south east, or from [[Garrigill]] to the north west simply by following the Way. This section of the Way is well signposted and laid out. Some parts of the path are surfaced with stone slabs. The summit is about {{convert|7.5|mi|km|0}} from either village. The easiest route to Cross Fell summit (around 4 miles each way) is via a road from the village of Knock. This is a well graded, tarmac road which provides car access to the radar installation on Great Dun Fell and a quarry nearby. Great Dun Fell is the highest point in the British road system. The road is however private and attempting to drive up it is prohibited.<ref>{{cite book | last=Nuttall | first=John & Anne | title=The Mountains of England & Wales - Volume 2: England | edition=2nd edition | year=1990 | publisher=Cicerone | location=Milnthorpe, Cumbria | isbn=1-85284-037-4| page=175}}</ref><ref>{{cite book | last=Dillon | first=Paddy | title=Walking in the North Pennines | edition=illustrated | year=1991 | publisher=Cicerone | isbn=9781852840846| page=48}}</ref><ref>[http://www.leaney.org/outside_the_lakes_walk.php?walk_id=502 Picture showing private road sign to Great Dun Fell]</ref> It is a relatively easy walk from this point along the summit ridge to Cross Fell. However, there is a very boggy area separating Little Dun Fell and Cross Fell, and the correct route between the two is marked by a tall [[cairn]] situated at the edge of Cross Fell and several hundred metres back from the ridge. [[Image:Cf2.JPG|right|thumb|280px|on the north side of Cross Fell, May 2006]] An interesting route to the summit is from the village of [[Kirkland, Eden|Kirkland]]. The walker can park his/her car by the side of the road going north out of the village and follow a track going past a group of holiday cottages<ref>Kirkland Hall cottages :[http://www.kirkland-hall-cottages.co.uk/ advertisement]</ref> and rising up to some ancient mine workings. A track leads from that point towards the west flank of Cross Fell. A direct approach to the summit from the west involves climbing a difficult scree slope, so an easier way is to follow the track (not well defined over its whole length) around to the north side of the fell, where it meets the Pennine Way at a cairn. One may then follow the Way up a gentle slope to the summit. This route offers fine views (up to {{convert|60|mi|km|0}} on a clear day) over both the Solway to the north and the Eden Valley to the south. In fair conditions, the walk from Kirkland to the summit takes between two and three hours.<ref>Walking Britain (OS) :[http://www.walkingbritain.co.uk/m/walk_b1.php?id=3071 route guide and photographs]</ref> An ascent of Cross Fell in anything but perfect weather conditions can become challenging. None of the available routes offers a well defined path all the way to the summit. To the north of the ridge lies an extensive area of featureless [[bog]] and [[moorland]], without obvious contours. The immediate area around Cross Fell is prone to hill fog and low cloud. Above {{convert|500|m|ft|0}}, visibility can suddenly drop to almost nothing. It is easy to become disoriented and lost. The [[scree]] slopes on the edges of Cross Fell can be treacherous in conditions of snow or ice. The large boulders are not securely seated and move readily when a walker tries to cross them. It is easy to fall and break a limb. This particular line of approach to the summit is best avoided unless conditions are clear and dry. Increasing numbers of walkers have come into the area since the Pennine Way opened in the 1960s and as car ownership has become more widespread. After a number of fatalities among walkers in the locality, a mountain rescue team was established at nearby Penrith in 1959. This team is called out to rescue lost, missing, or injured walkers in the Cross Fell area, on average about once every two weeks.<ref>Penrith Mountain rescue :[http://www.penrithmrt.btinternet.co.uk/callouts-06.htm callouts log]</ref> That said, Cross Fell has much to offer the visitor. A climb to the summit is safe and easy so long as proper precautions are taken. The walker should be adequately dressed and equipped with map and compass. Most of the locality is within range of mobile phones.''
See WP:ISNOT - this is mostly guidebook material, not encyclopedic - any relevant content could be readded.
Similar comments apply to the use of the page as a photo gallery for interesting views - any images need to contribute to encylopedic content - ie give a good description of something being described in the text. Of course there is always a place for picture gallerys, but they too should show something of note. Sf5xeplus ( talk) 23:33, 7 January 2011 (UTC) Sf5xeplus ( talk) 23:33, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
Is there a good reason for the redirect from Long Man Hill to Cross Fell? This article doesn't mention Long Man Hill - is it an alternative name? Is it part of Cross Fell? Or what? -- Guillaume Tell 17:28, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
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Nice little article. I wikified a few technical geology and geography terms to make it more accessible. Nice work. Oh and it's so nice to see an article with an empty talk page! Pascal.Tesson 06:41, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
JPS. The images contribute significantly to the GA status and were present when it was a GA candidate. If you can replace them with something better, then that is fine. Otherwise, please leave them be. best wishes. Bob BScar23625 17:03, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
ps. Just out of interest. You removed images containing either myself or my son. Yet you left the image containing my daughter. Why was that?. best wishes Bob BScar23625 17:07, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
JPS. The images contribute significantly to the article. Take them in turn :
The people that appear in them are incidental. If you want to go up there and take replacement images without people in them, then that is fine by me. But please replace the images, do not just remove them. best wishes. Bob BScar23625 18:28, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
ps As an aside, there was a similar discussion on the Helvellyn article, when two of my images were replaced. I have no problem with people improving on images I have inserted - but arbitrary deletion is another matter. Bob BScar23625 18:33, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
pps As a further aside, the next time there is fair weather on a weekend, I plan to go up to Cross Fell summit. If you wish, I will meet you at Kirkland and we can go up together. You can bring your camera and take pictures without people in them. Let me know. Bob BScar23625 18:46, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
In my opinion, images that show features of the landscape should not focus on people in the foreground. This is distracting. However, until we get better images, we can use these. I’ve removed the people from Image:Cf1.JPG and Image:Crossf4.JPG (using GIMP and [1]) and I think Image:Crossf3.jpg may be OK, simply to give the viewer a sense of scale. I realise my modifications mean some loss in quality (and, in the first case, also an extra bit of artistic freedom in adding some rocks to the pile), but I think this is viable until somebody makes replacements. By the way, if somebody is going to make new photographs, a higher resolution would be nice. Even if the images in the article itself are small, some people might want to see more details. — xyzzy n 01:23, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
xyzzy. People in images are often essential in order to give scale. For example take the following image which appears in bothe the Cross Fell and Scree articles.
The image is of a geological feature known as "tallus", which is a form of scree composed of large boulders. Take out the person (which happens to be me) and you couldn't tell whether the rocks are 3 metre boulders (which they are) or only 2cm pepples. That is the extreme case - but much the same could be siad of the other images (with one exception).
In any event, I don't like fake images. So, perhaps the images can stay as they are until someone can substitute better ones?. best wishes. Bob BScar23625 07:54, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
xyzzy. Your adjustments are just distortions. Sorry to put it like that, but .... . I make the same offer to you that I did to JPS. I will guide you up to the summit and you can take your camera. E-mail me if you want to take me up on this. best wishes. Bob BScar23625 15:40, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Blisco. As per our earlier discussion on the Helvellyn article, I have no problem with my amateur efforts being replaced by good, professional standard images. I am not too keen on aerial photographs, but that may be just a personal preference. I agree with you that "doctored" images should never be used. best wishes. Bob BScar23625 09:55, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Chaps, some general comments.
My view is that doctored images should never be used in any form of publication. You can move mountains around, add trees, add smoke and adjust the position of the sun in an image - but the result emerging from this process is a fake. It is worthless.
The position on aerial photographs is also unsatisfactory. An aerial photograph of a mountain amounts to little more than a map and rarely does justice to its subject. The aerial photograph in the Helvellyn article could be that of any mountain. It looks bland, low and lacks any context. A proper mountain picture should be taken from ground level - which is where 99.9% of people see it from and from where its proper context and atmosphere are apparent. regards. Bob BScar23625 16:09, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
xyzzy. The problem with your adjustments is that what you produce is not real. You may remember the recent case of a news journalist who produced an image from the Gulf War showing the aftermath of an American air strike in northern Iraq. He produced an image being a composite of 3 pictures and then embellished it with some extra smoke and flames. He sold the product of this exercise for a substantial sum to various newspapers. But when the facts became known he was sacked and blacklisted.
If you want to take some good pictures, then I will be happy to guide you up to the summit of Cross Fell. There have been a few casualties up there in recent years, but I am a reliable guide and you can trust me to get you up and down safely. You will then have the personal satisfaction of knowing that you have taken real images as a product of your own efforts. regards. Bob BScar23625 16:44, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
xyzzy. Well, if you don't want to come to England, then perhaps you should avoid such a peculiarly English issue?. The trouble is that your edits of my pictures are just distortions. If you can substitute better images, then that is fine - but as it is .... . best wishes. Bob BScar23625 17:02, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
xyzzy. The problem with your latest effort is that not only is it fake, but .... it is almost unviewable. If you want to create pictures of Cross Fell, then you should take the trouble to climb it yourself. best wishes. Bob BScar23625 17:14, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
Chaps. This could run and run, but let us leave it there for now. As far as I am concerned, the lead image on the article is a fake. I will put a health warning on it to that effect. Bob BScar23625 15:55, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
ps. Actually, I am not so sure that the image now shown in the article is an altered version of mine. It looks different and purports (in its licensing) to have been taken by one Charles Rispin on 26 September 2006. I guess that Charles Rispin must have stood on exactly the same spot that I did (the top of the summit shelter) to take the image. Can anyone enlighten me?. If it is a real image (and not just a brilliant fake), then please remove my health warning. Bob BScar23625 16:13, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
pps. I am now sure that the summit image now shown is a genuine one - and not a fake. I have removed the health warning. I don't know how this image got there, but I am not arguing. It is better than my original. I have banned myself from editing this article for 28 days. Bob BScar23625 16:26, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
Is the sketch map alligned correctly? Little Dun Fell is broadly southeast of Cross Fell, but Great Dun Fell is south-southeast of Little Dun Fell. The sketch map makes them look closer to east-southeast, and gives the impression (to me at any rate) of being a predominately east–west ridge rather than a predominately north–south ridge. Also Cow Green is in the wrong place — it's shown as north of the ridge, in fact it's a little south of east. I don't mind loosing some accuracy by using stylised sketch maps, but this one seems misleading. — ras52 09:22, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
Ras52. You are probably right. It was me that drew and inserted the sketch map and I will correct it some time. Thanks for mentioning the matter. Bob BScar23625 07:38, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
Sorry Mark, but I do not see how Helvellyn can be described as the parent peak of Cross Fell. The two are visible from each other in conditions of good visibility, but they are about 30km apart and separated by the Eden Valley. Cross Fell does not fall within the "territory" of Helvellyn for drainage purposes. Have you ever climbed Cross Fell?. best wishes Bob BScar23625 17:41, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
BScar23625, you might like to know that some general issues with the use of the 'Parent peak' infobox field are currently being discussed here. (Incidentally, although there are several different definitions of 'parent mountain' used to varying degrees, in this case all definitions agree that Helvellyn is Cross Fell's parent.) — ras52 13:39, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Chaps. The relevant section from Topographical prominence (recently revised by Mark) reads "It is common to define a peak's parent as a particular peak in the higher terrain connected to the peak by the key col". One might only decribe H as CF's parent peak if the two were in the same block of higher terrain, which they are not. Bob BScar23625 15:52, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Chaps. I don't accept that it is even mathematically correct to claim that H is the parent peak of CF. The two are in entirely different blocks of high ground and one might just as easily claim that Ben Nevis is the parent peak of CF. Bob BScar23625 17:59, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Anyway, I understand your suspicions over the fact that Cross Fell and Helvellyn are clearly on different mountain ranges. However, in many areas the boundaries between mountain ranges are not so easily drawn and decisions about where one range ends and another begins have to be largely arbitrary. This would inevitably lead to arguing over whether a peak 'deserves' to have a parent or not. To avoid such arguments, the rule was made (not by me, I hasten to add!) that every peak has a parent. And going by that, the parent of Cross Fell quite simply is Helvellyn (as ras52 demonstrated above.) So there you go.
I hope we can settle this. Any thoughts you two? Mark J 20:04, 24 September 2007 (UTC)
Mark. Where has this "rule" that every peak must have a parent come from?. Is this a Wikipedia rule or what?. I can only repeat that CF and H are in ranges that are both topographically and geologically separate. Please do not be offended if I ask whether there is any link between you and ras52. You both live in Cambridgeshire, and I wonder if you are father and son?. best wishes. Bob BScar23625 08:27, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Ras52. Thankyou for your swift response and I repeat that no offence was intended in my question to Mark. I just wanted to be sure that the two of you are not from the same household.
This rule you describe sounds far too complicated to make any sense. I think we both agree that there is no obvious meaning in describing H as the parent peak of CF. So, does it make any sense to .... . Bob BScar23625 09:38, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
Lol, no, Ras52 isn't my parent, although he is probably higher and more prominent than me. :-) Can I ask for your opinion now, Ras52, as to whether the line should go back in the article now you've stated its certainty beyond all possible doubt? It probably should for consistency. Mark J 18:00, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
I have reinstated the parent field (with its correct value: Helvellyn). This is one of very few articles on British mountain that lack this field, and in the name of consistency, I feel it should be included. Even with other mountains where the parent is quite distant (more distant than Cross Fell to Helvellyn), the parent is generally included. For example, start at Dunkery Beacon, the highest point of Exmoor, and follow the chain of parent peaks: High Willhays, Cross Fell, Helvellyn, Scafell Pike, Snowdon, Ben Nevis. The only one missing a parent field in the info box is this one. — ras52 ( talk) 15:52, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Richard. I will look forward to the day when we have a biblical flood. And I can stand on the Cross Fell summit shelter with the water lapping around my feet and I look out to see four small islands in the distance to the south west. Bob BScar23625 ( talk) 16:22, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
ras52. Your idea of a biblical flood with the sea level rising to a point where it is lapping around the top of Cross Fell is really great. Standing on top of the summit shelter (to keep your feet dry) there would be water on all sides - apart from 4 small islands being the tops of Helvellyn, Skiddaw, Scafell and Scafell Pike visible at a distance of around 25-50km. And as the waters fall, there would come a short-lived moment where CF and H would be connected as a single island while still just separate from Scafell island.
But do you realise that an 890m rise in sea level would require the volume of water in the oceans to increase by at least 35%? (my "back of envelope" calculation). I mean, it would require a lot more than the melting of the polar ice caps to achieve this result. I cannot even see a freak tsunami wave (caused by a meteorite strike) doing it. Bob BScar23625 14:46, 25 September 2007 (UTC)
This is the second time I have recitifed the private road status of GDF, as a NATS employee I think if anyone should have the final word on wether the public are permitted on driving up said road it should be me. In the future if you wish to change this area please contact me in advance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andehtw ( talk • contribs) 21:59, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
The mention of GDF in the introduction; is it really necessary there? It's an unrelated fell. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.26.219 ( talk) 16:23, 12 September 2008 (UTC)
I removed this reference in January, yet it was re-instated under the logic that 'if can be seen, then relevant'. Not to sound petty, but lots can be seen when viewing Cross Fell, which aren't relevant in any way.
In order to uphold the quality of
Wikipedia:Good articles, all articles listed as Good articles are being reviewed against the
GA criteria as part of the
GA project quality task force. While all the hard work that has gone into this article is appreciated, unfortunately, as of
September 28,
2008, this article fails to satisfy the criteria, as detailed below. For that reason, the article has been delisted from
WP:GA. However, if improvements are made bringing the article up to standards, the article may be nominated at
WP:GAN. If you feel this decision has been made in error, you may seek remediation at
WP:GAR.
-- Malleus Fatuorum ( talk) 22:19, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
removed this : diff
==Routes to Cross Fell summit== [[File:Crossfellmap.JPG|left|thumb|Sketch map of the approaches to Cross Fell]] Cross Fell is crossed by the [[Pennine Way]] footpath en route from [[Dufton]] to [[Alston, Cumbria|Alston]]. Thus it may be climbed either from [[Dufton]] to the south east, or from [[Garrigill]] to the north west simply by following the Way. This section of the Way is well signposted and laid out. Some parts of the path are surfaced with stone slabs. The summit is about {{convert|7.5|mi|km|0}} from either village. The easiest route to Cross Fell summit (around 4 miles each way) is via a road from the village of Knock. This is a well graded, tarmac road which provides car access to the radar installation on Great Dun Fell and a quarry nearby. Great Dun Fell is the highest point in the British road system. The road is however private and attempting to drive up it is prohibited.<ref>{{cite book | last=Nuttall | first=John & Anne | title=The Mountains of England & Wales - Volume 2: England | edition=2nd edition | year=1990 | publisher=Cicerone | location=Milnthorpe, Cumbria | isbn=1-85284-037-4| page=175}}</ref><ref>{{cite book | last=Dillon | first=Paddy | title=Walking in the North Pennines | edition=illustrated | year=1991 | publisher=Cicerone | isbn=9781852840846| page=48}}</ref><ref>[http://www.leaney.org/outside_the_lakes_walk.php?walk_id=502 Picture showing private road sign to Great Dun Fell]</ref> It is a relatively easy walk from this point along the summit ridge to Cross Fell. However, there is a very boggy area separating Little Dun Fell and Cross Fell, and the correct route between the two is marked by a tall [[cairn]] situated at the edge of Cross Fell and several hundred metres back from the ridge. [[Image:Cf2.JPG|right|thumb|280px|on the north side of Cross Fell, May 2006]] An interesting route to the summit is from the village of [[Kirkland, Eden|Kirkland]]. The walker can park his/her car by the side of the road going north out of the village and follow a track going past a group of holiday cottages<ref>Kirkland Hall cottages :[http://www.kirkland-hall-cottages.co.uk/ advertisement]</ref> and rising up to some ancient mine workings. A track leads from that point towards the west flank of Cross Fell. A direct approach to the summit from the west involves climbing a difficult scree slope, so an easier way is to follow the track (not well defined over its whole length) around to the north side of the fell, where it meets the Pennine Way at a cairn. One may then follow the Way up a gentle slope to the summit. This route offers fine views (up to {{convert|60|mi|km|0}} on a clear day) over both the Solway to the north and the Eden Valley to the south. In fair conditions, the walk from Kirkland to the summit takes between two and three hours.<ref>Walking Britain (OS) :[http://www.walkingbritain.co.uk/m/walk_b1.php?id=3071 route guide and photographs]</ref> An ascent of Cross Fell in anything but perfect weather conditions can become challenging. None of the available routes offers a well defined path all the way to the summit. To the north of the ridge lies an extensive area of featureless [[bog]] and [[moorland]], without obvious contours. The immediate area around Cross Fell is prone to hill fog and low cloud. Above {{convert|500|m|ft|0}}, visibility can suddenly drop to almost nothing. It is easy to become disoriented and lost. The [[scree]] slopes on the edges of Cross Fell can be treacherous in conditions of snow or ice. The large boulders are not securely seated and move readily when a walker tries to cross them. It is easy to fall and break a limb. This particular line of approach to the summit is best avoided unless conditions are clear and dry. Increasing numbers of walkers have come into the area since the Pennine Way opened in the 1960s and as car ownership has become more widespread. After a number of fatalities among walkers in the locality, a mountain rescue team was established at nearby Penrith in 1959. This team is called out to rescue lost, missing, or injured walkers in the Cross Fell area, on average about once every two weeks.<ref>Penrith Mountain rescue :[http://www.penrithmrt.btinternet.co.uk/callouts-06.htm callouts log]</ref> That said, Cross Fell has much to offer the visitor. A climb to the summit is safe and easy so long as proper precautions are taken. The walker should be adequately dressed and equipped with map and compass. Most of the locality is within range of mobile phones.''
See WP:ISNOT - this is mostly guidebook material, not encyclopedic - any relevant content could be readded.
Similar comments apply to the use of the page as a photo gallery for interesting views - any images need to contribute to encylopedic content - ie give a good description of something being described in the text. Of course there is always a place for picture gallerys, but they too should show something of note. Sf5xeplus ( talk) 23:33, 7 January 2011 (UTC) Sf5xeplus ( talk) 23:33, 7 January 2011 (UTC)
Is there a good reason for the redirect from Long Man Hill to Cross Fell? This article doesn't mention Long Man Hill - is it an alternative name? Is it part of Cross Fell? Or what? -- Guillaume Tell 17:28, 29 July 2012 (UTC)
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