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Archive 1 |
would someone please add citations to the first section detailing the security flaws? because i saw at least 15 statements without citations, everyone knows un-cited info is quickly deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.68.228.120 ( talk) 00:56, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone else feel that there should be an article about criticisms of Linux aswell? 84.251.209.174 14:03, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
Of course although any such criticisms are unlikely to be applicable to all distros of Linux. 87.112.24.89 01:24, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
There should be and there are some, e.g. Debian#Advantages_and_Criticisms (I realise that this is very mild criticism, and as a Linux fan I think there is scope for more). But it is difficult because there are so many "flavours" of Linux, which also evolve far more rapidly than Windows, so that a comment can become outdated quickly. People also update Linux systems much more rapidly than other systems, so it is not interesting to read about stuff which is no longer being used. (In contrast, while I am rarely more than one version behind with Linux, I still use Windows98 and Mac OS 7.1.) -- Theosch 10:16, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
{{Template:Criticism-section}}
. Thank you. --
70.130.44.41
19:27, 22 October 2007 (UTC)The article states that "16 bit applications are incompatible with 64-bit versions of Windows XP and Windows Vista". I suggest a reference is added, to http://support.microsoft.com/kb/282423/en-us (List of limitations in 64-Bit Windows). R2S 02:18, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
When XP firrst came out: If you start up XP /MSW to edit a text on a diskette, XP will apparently let you do that. But when you later look for all the work you did, XP will tell you that the diskette is unformatted (which is untrue, since 2000 and 98 can read all the changes you have made). Presumably this has been fixed, but I don't know if that's true. Kdammers 07:33, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
1. In Windows XP locale/language/keyboard/location are different settings, which is good - at least for people living outside of the USA. Each of this has to be configured only once (and not serveral times as currently stated). "US English" is the fallback for any language. Defaults depend on the localized version of Windows (e.g. German or Russian Windows XP have different defaults). Yes but it would be better for the seup process to ask the user which country/language they wanted once and then simply ask them to confirm the appropriate settings for keyboard layout, timezone, standards/formats, news, non-unicode settings, default paper size etc. Most distros of Linux do this
2 and 3. This is only a problem in the USA. Default timezone depend on the localized version of Windows and the country selected. e.g. German or Russian Windows XP have different defaults - not a general problem. Nope English language copies of Windows sold outside of North America have GMT -8 as their default timezone as well. It would make far more sense to have the default timezone based on the country specified at the start of the install process. For countries with multiple timezones the most populated zone (e.g. GMT -5 for the US) should be used.
4. a problem indeed, very annoying
5. Visual Studio is not part of Windows XP, iirc. An application problem not a problem in Windows XP itself. Yes but other applications should be able to access the Windows XP country settings and set their own defaults accordingly. -- 62.178.136.129 (replies in bold from 87.112.24.89 01:17, 3 January 2007 (UTC) )
The information IS verifiable and consequently has been reinstated. Simply try installing windows XP from a CD yourself and you will see ! 87.112.12.166 00:54, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
As has been pointed out already everything in the section is verifiable by anyone attempting a windows install themselves. I really think Wikipedia is being ruined by some Wikipedians going way too overboard in their interpretation of the guidlines on Original research/verifibility. Does the fact that someone says it elsewhere on the internet or a book really make it any more likely to be true ? Is it really necessary to cite articles when writing about the religious affiliation of the pope or the toilet habits of bears in forests ? 193.112.172.11 10:18, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
So it is true that windows has these shortcomings but not enough people are (publicly) complaining about it to make it a "criticism" ?
Should we therfore reinstate the section but rename the article "Major DEFECTS of Windows XP" ???
Or would that only bring the NPOV nitpickers out of the woodwork (sigh) 193.112.172.10 12:41, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Nobody here has suggested that people not adhere to Wikipedia's policy. The problem is certain peoples excessivly nit-picking interpretation of them. Where in Wikipedias policy does it state that information (which is readily verifiable by anyone with a computer and a Windows XP disc) has to be deleted even when there is no dispute over its accuracy ? There are entire articles on Wikipedia which are uncited without being deleted. A simple "this section/article does not cite its sources" and or "This article or section may contain original research or unattributed claims" tag is deemed to suffice. But this is obviously too much like common sense for some people ? 193.112.172.10 14:47, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
To sum up, these are agravating problems are probably solved best by Mac OS, second best by some Linux distributions, third best by Windows, and forth best by some Linux distributions. Therfore while the facts of this section might be factual and accurate, they may not be fair criticism or be somewhat out of context. -- Theosch 09:57, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
"they may not be fair criticism" why ? Because the alternatives may (or may not) be just as bad ??? 87.113.68.35 06:23, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
I think there are sufficient rebuttals at this time. -- Rotten 05:30, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
If you think Windows XP is a bad egg, just wait until you start to use Windows Vista. Look out for BIG BROTHER!!!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.110.194.201 ( talk) 00:17, 10 March 2007 (UTC).
Even security-conscious users had trouble with Blaster, since it could infect a computer with a newly installed copy of Windows XP before the user had time to download security fixes.
This line is in violation of WP:NOR. Talk:Digg explains.
Online polls, comments, etc are unreliable because it's trivial for a sufficiently motivated person to make their point of view appear to have wider support than it does them using multiple accounts and/or IP addresses. Vary | Talk 23:22, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Misterdiscreet 17:03, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
There are a lot of statements in this article that need to be sourced. Please add them soon, before I go through the article with a bulldozer and clear out anything without a WP:RS-- and remember to read the policy, blogs and forums are not reliable sources -- L u c id 01:04, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Is it just me, or Windows XP really starts up and shuts down slower than previous and next releases? 194.141.3.17 ( talk) 00:53, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
The TCP socket limit criticism section was sourced to a blog, and then a DIY "patch" from a file sharing site. It was also poorly written. I think the socket limit section may have a reliable source out there, and I've got no prejudice to a properly sourced and better written paragraph about it. For now, I've deleted it. It sat in the article long enough to find good sources. SchmuckyTheCat ( talk) 17:25, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Kozuch - you reverted my edit without an explanation. Please provide one here. Thanks, WalterGR ( talk | contributions) 20:55, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
It seems as though this section discusses criticism of the business practices of Microsoft (bundling software with the operating system), rather then criticism of the operating system itself. What do you think? — H.7004.Vx ( talk) 00:16, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
The sentence "In light of the United States v. Microsoft case which resulted in Microsoft being convicted for illegally abusing its operating system monopoly to overwhelm competition in other markets, Windows XP has drawn fire for integrating user applications such as Windows Media Player and Windows Messenger into the operating system, as well as for its close ties to the Windows Live ID service." makes no sense since Microsoft does not have a monopoly, it does have competitors and monopolies do not have competitors. I think it should be changed to:
In light of the United States v. Microsoft case which resulted in Microsoft being convicted for illegally abusing its operating system "dominance" to overwhelm competition in other markets, Windows XP has drawn fire "from competitors" for integrating user applications such as Windows Media Player and Windows Messenger into the operating system, as well as for its close ties to the Windows Live ID service.
This "close ties to the Windows Live ID service" also needs sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.207.26.154 ( talk) 17:39, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
"It is also found unstable by most consumers, who rather prefer buying Windows XP Professional. Windows XP Home Edition was dubbed The most unstable Microsoft OS after Windows Millennium Edition."
I have used XP for about four years without ever having a BSOD. Besides, the afirmation isn't sourced, so I'm removing it. 143.107.151.34 ( talk) 19:18, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Just a thought... don't you guys all think there's a good reason XP didn't want the time to be tampered with by unauthorized individuals?
Changes to the system time can mess up updates, parental controls, expiration dates for trial ware (legal issues), and otherwise screw up a computer.
We should make it so either it's not talked about or so that it makes sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TangLab ( talk • contribs) 16:08, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Currently Windows refund redirects to the section License refunds (which is my fault :). The last few edits were about Vista refund case, probably due to the redirection I placed. I'd like to propose moving this section to a Windows refund article, and move all the info over there. Fuzzy ( talk) 17:24, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
would someone please add citations to the first section detailing the security flaws? because i saw at least 15 statements without citations, everyone knows un-cited info is quickly deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.68.228.120 ( talk) 00:56, 12 December 2007 (UTC)
Does anyone else feel that there should be an article about criticisms of Linux aswell? 84.251.209.174 14:03, 25 December 2006 (UTC)
Of course although any such criticisms are unlikely to be applicable to all distros of Linux. 87.112.24.89 01:24, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
There should be and there are some, e.g. Debian#Advantages_and_Criticisms (I realise that this is very mild criticism, and as a Linux fan I think there is scope for more). But it is difficult because there are so many "flavours" of Linux, which also evolve far more rapidly than Windows, so that a comment can become outdated quickly. People also update Linux systems much more rapidly than other systems, so it is not interesting to read about stuff which is no longer being used. (In contrast, while I am rarely more than one version behind with Linux, I still use Windows98 and Mac OS 7.1.) -- Theosch 10:16, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
{{Template:Criticism-section}}
. Thank you. --
70.130.44.41
19:27, 22 October 2007 (UTC)The article states that "16 bit applications are incompatible with 64-bit versions of Windows XP and Windows Vista". I suggest a reference is added, to http://support.microsoft.com/kb/282423/en-us (List of limitations in 64-Bit Windows). R2S 02:18, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
When XP firrst came out: If you start up XP /MSW to edit a text on a diskette, XP will apparently let you do that. But when you later look for all the work you did, XP will tell you that the diskette is unformatted (which is untrue, since 2000 and 98 can read all the changes you have made). Presumably this has been fixed, but I don't know if that's true. Kdammers 07:33, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
1. In Windows XP locale/language/keyboard/location are different settings, which is good - at least for people living outside of the USA. Each of this has to be configured only once (and not serveral times as currently stated). "US English" is the fallback for any language. Defaults depend on the localized version of Windows (e.g. German or Russian Windows XP have different defaults). Yes but it would be better for the seup process to ask the user which country/language they wanted once and then simply ask them to confirm the appropriate settings for keyboard layout, timezone, standards/formats, news, non-unicode settings, default paper size etc. Most distros of Linux do this
2 and 3. This is only a problem in the USA. Default timezone depend on the localized version of Windows and the country selected. e.g. German or Russian Windows XP have different defaults - not a general problem. Nope English language copies of Windows sold outside of North America have GMT -8 as their default timezone as well. It would make far more sense to have the default timezone based on the country specified at the start of the install process. For countries with multiple timezones the most populated zone (e.g. GMT -5 for the US) should be used.
4. a problem indeed, very annoying
5. Visual Studio is not part of Windows XP, iirc. An application problem not a problem in Windows XP itself. Yes but other applications should be able to access the Windows XP country settings and set their own defaults accordingly. -- 62.178.136.129 (replies in bold from 87.112.24.89 01:17, 3 January 2007 (UTC) )
The information IS verifiable and consequently has been reinstated. Simply try installing windows XP from a CD yourself and you will see ! 87.112.12.166 00:54, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
As has been pointed out already everything in the section is verifiable by anyone attempting a windows install themselves. I really think Wikipedia is being ruined by some Wikipedians going way too overboard in their interpretation of the guidlines on Original research/verifibility. Does the fact that someone says it elsewhere on the internet or a book really make it any more likely to be true ? Is it really necessary to cite articles when writing about the religious affiliation of the pope or the toilet habits of bears in forests ? 193.112.172.11 10:18, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
So it is true that windows has these shortcomings but not enough people are (publicly) complaining about it to make it a "criticism" ?
Should we therfore reinstate the section but rename the article "Major DEFECTS of Windows XP" ???
Or would that only bring the NPOV nitpickers out of the woodwork (sigh) 193.112.172.10 12:41, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Nobody here has suggested that people not adhere to Wikipedia's policy. The problem is certain peoples excessivly nit-picking interpretation of them. Where in Wikipedias policy does it state that information (which is readily verifiable by anyone with a computer and a Windows XP disc) has to be deleted even when there is no dispute over its accuracy ? There are entire articles on Wikipedia which are uncited without being deleted. A simple "this section/article does not cite its sources" and or "This article or section may contain original research or unattributed claims" tag is deemed to suffice. But this is obviously too much like common sense for some people ? 193.112.172.10 14:47, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
To sum up, these are agravating problems are probably solved best by Mac OS, second best by some Linux distributions, third best by Windows, and forth best by some Linux distributions. Therfore while the facts of this section might be factual and accurate, they may not be fair criticism or be somewhat out of context. -- Theosch 09:57, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
"they may not be fair criticism" why ? Because the alternatives may (or may not) be just as bad ??? 87.113.68.35 06:23, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
I think there are sufficient rebuttals at this time. -- Rotten 05:30, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
If you think Windows XP is a bad egg, just wait until you start to use Windows Vista. Look out for BIG BROTHER!!!!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.110.194.201 ( talk) 00:17, 10 March 2007 (UTC).
Even security-conscious users had trouble with Blaster, since it could infect a computer with a newly installed copy of Windows XP before the user had time to download security fixes.
This line is in violation of WP:NOR. Talk:Digg explains.
Online polls, comments, etc are unreliable because it's trivial for a sufficiently motivated person to make their point of view appear to have wider support than it does them using multiple accounts and/or IP addresses. Vary | Talk 23:22, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
Misterdiscreet 17:03, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
There are a lot of statements in this article that need to be sourced. Please add them soon, before I go through the article with a bulldozer and clear out anything without a WP:RS-- and remember to read the policy, blogs and forums are not reliable sources -- L u c id 01:04, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
Is it just me, or Windows XP really starts up and shuts down slower than previous and next releases? 194.141.3.17 ( talk) 00:53, 26 November 2007 (UTC)
The TCP socket limit criticism section was sourced to a blog, and then a DIY "patch" from a file sharing site. It was also poorly written. I think the socket limit section may have a reliable source out there, and I've got no prejudice to a properly sourced and better written paragraph about it. For now, I've deleted it. It sat in the article long enough to find good sources. SchmuckyTheCat ( talk) 17:25, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
Kozuch - you reverted my edit without an explanation. Please provide one here. Thanks, WalterGR ( talk | contributions) 20:55, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
It seems as though this section discusses criticism of the business practices of Microsoft (bundling software with the operating system), rather then criticism of the operating system itself. What do you think? — H.7004.Vx ( talk) 00:16, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
The sentence "In light of the United States v. Microsoft case which resulted in Microsoft being convicted for illegally abusing its operating system monopoly to overwhelm competition in other markets, Windows XP has drawn fire for integrating user applications such as Windows Media Player and Windows Messenger into the operating system, as well as for its close ties to the Windows Live ID service." makes no sense since Microsoft does not have a monopoly, it does have competitors and monopolies do not have competitors. I think it should be changed to:
In light of the United States v. Microsoft case which resulted in Microsoft being convicted for illegally abusing its operating system "dominance" to overwhelm competition in other markets, Windows XP has drawn fire "from competitors" for integrating user applications such as Windows Media Player and Windows Messenger into the operating system, as well as for its close ties to the Windows Live ID service.
This "close ties to the Windows Live ID service" also needs sources. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.207.26.154 ( talk) 17:39, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
"It is also found unstable by most consumers, who rather prefer buying Windows XP Professional. Windows XP Home Edition was dubbed The most unstable Microsoft OS after Windows Millennium Edition."
I have used XP for about four years without ever having a BSOD. Besides, the afirmation isn't sourced, so I'm removing it. 143.107.151.34 ( talk) 19:18, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Just a thought... don't you guys all think there's a good reason XP didn't want the time to be tampered with by unauthorized individuals?
Changes to the system time can mess up updates, parental controls, expiration dates for trial ware (legal issues), and otherwise screw up a computer.
We should make it so either it's not talked about or so that it makes sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TangLab ( talk • contribs) 16:08, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Currently Windows refund redirects to the section License refunds (which is my fault :). The last few edits were about Vista refund case, probably due to the redirection I placed. I'd like to propose moving this section to a Windows refund article, and move all the info over there. Fuzzy ( talk) 17:24, 17 December 2008 (UTC)