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Important notice: Prior discussion has determined that pictures of Muhammad are allowed and will not be removed from this article. Discussion of images should be posted to the subpage Talk:Muhammad/images. Removal of pictures without discussion will be reverted. If you find Muhammad images offensive, it is possible to configure your browser or use your personal Wikipedia settings not to display them, see Talk:Muhammad/FAQ. The FAQ addresses some common points of argument, including the use of images and honorifics such as "peace be upon him". The FAQ represents prior consensus of editors here. If you are new to this article and have a question or suggestion for it, please read the FAQ first. |
It seems that Jeremy Stangroom and Ophelia Benson lack recognition or notable accomplishments in the relevant field, and thus may not meet the standard for reliable sources. Additionally, the information provided appears to lean more towards an opinion piece rather than actual criticism. See WP:OR and WP:RS
The inclusion of the line about Aisha's behavior with dolls, stating that she was "childish enough to play with dolls along with her young girlfriends," seems unnecessary in light of the well-established information provided in the first line. The first line, supported by numerous credible sources, establishes the background regarding Aisha's age at betrothal and consummation. The subsequent line is just hinting at a variance from a minority perspective. The details you seek to add are thoroughly and comprehensively covered in the dedicated Aisha article. Therefore, it is advisable to prioritize the conciseness, relevance, and accuracy of the Criticism of Muhammad section.
Lastly, the the unwarranted line "It seems to me that your Lord hastens to satisfy your desire" completely fails WP:Neutral. It is recommended to focus on comprehensive criticism while avoiding potentially misleading or cherry-picked quotes. StarkReport ( talk) 22:17, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
@ StarkReport: you lie several times 1) Jeremy Stangroom and Ophelia Benson are notable enough to have their own wikipedia pages 2) the dolls addition stresses her immaturity and is a counter to those who claim that even at 6-9 yrs of age when married, aisha was somehow uniquely mature. My sentence presents original, relevant critiques to the article. 3) Aisha saying God hastens to fulfill Muhammad's desire is evidence from within Islam that critics have used to criticize Muhammad's polygamy. I don't see how this is irrelevant or lacks notability. 4) where exactly are my arguments mentioned in other articles? Your attacks are hollow are read like someone trying to minimize damage to Muhammad's image. -- Appleweb ( talk) 09:00, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
@ StarkReport, Making separate sub-section, since I am not involved in above said edit war ( and as of now no plans to edit this article). I am just trying to facilitate discussion and better conceptualization. Please help in understanding following aspects.
and does not risk cherry picking?.. The central purpose of this article is to contain valid criticisms. ..
Bookku ( talk) 04:34, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
Ali Sina is an activist without qualifications in Islamic studies. His works lack peer-reviewed sources and are self-published, lacking the rigorous scrutiny required for reliable academic research.
Similarly, the IslamQA website relies on original research, lacks editorial oversight, and has a non-neutral viewpoint, making it an unsatisfactory source according to Wikipedia.
Furthermore, it is important to note that the information provided in the section about Aisha's age is redundant. The first part of the section has already presented the established background concerning Aisha's age at betrothal and consummation. The subsequent line merely alludes to a differing viewpoint from a minority perspective. Hence, this sentence is considered unnecessary repetition. StarkReport ( talk) 12:15, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
Sounds like the Wikipedia-article is taking Islamic belief as fact. I tried to change that to bring critical distance into the mix. That was reverted - why? @ user:StarkReport -- Leo Navis ( talk) 11:26, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
Can it be mentioned that, in defense of Muhammad's marriage to Aisha, in 1275, the marriageable age was 12 in England (ref. Marriageable age#cite note-Stephen Robertson, University of Sydney, Australia-22). Having s** with a girl was 10+. Until 1875, that was the case. Then it became 13 (ref. Marriageable age#cite note-26). So, as recently as 1875, the marriageable age was set pretty low! So, if you look at Muhammad's time, it's no surprise that marriage ages were as low as they were. watermelon66 ( talk) 14:22, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
One source in this article cites Quran 33:50 as saying that Muhammad had 11 wives. However, I have checked multiple translations of this verse and I have seen nothing to this effect. Perhaps it is mentioned in a different section of the Quran, but I am not sure about that. Mayhair ( talk) 08:43, 24 February 2024 (UTC)
This article was nominated for deletion on 30 December 2015. The result of the discussion was keep. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Criticism of Muhammad article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6Auto-archiving period: 60 days |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Important notice: Prior discussion has determined that pictures of Muhammad are allowed and will not be removed from this article. Discussion of images should be posted to the subpage Talk:Muhammad/images. Removal of pictures without discussion will be reverted. If you find Muhammad images offensive, it is possible to configure your browser or use your personal Wikipedia settings not to display them, see Talk:Muhammad/FAQ. The FAQ addresses some common points of argument, including the use of images and honorifics such as "peace be upon him". The FAQ represents prior consensus of editors here. If you are new to this article and have a question or suggestion for it, please read the FAQ first. |
It seems that Jeremy Stangroom and Ophelia Benson lack recognition or notable accomplishments in the relevant field, and thus may not meet the standard for reliable sources. Additionally, the information provided appears to lean more towards an opinion piece rather than actual criticism. See WP:OR and WP:RS
The inclusion of the line about Aisha's behavior with dolls, stating that she was "childish enough to play with dolls along with her young girlfriends," seems unnecessary in light of the well-established information provided in the first line. The first line, supported by numerous credible sources, establishes the background regarding Aisha's age at betrothal and consummation. The subsequent line is just hinting at a variance from a minority perspective. The details you seek to add are thoroughly and comprehensively covered in the dedicated Aisha article. Therefore, it is advisable to prioritize the conciseness, relevance, and accuracy of the Criticism of Muhammad section.
Lastly, the the unwarranted line "It seems to me that your Lord hastens to satisfy your desire" completely fails WP:Neutral. It is recommended to focus on comprehensive criticism while avoiding potentially misleading or cherry-picked quotes. StarkReport ( talk) 22:17, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
@ StarkReport: you lie several times 1) Jeremy Stangroom and Ophelia Benson are notable enough to have their own wikipedia pages 2) the dolls addition stresses her immaturity and is a counter to those who claim that even at 6-9 yrs of age when married, aisha was somehow uniquely mature. My sentence presents original, relevant critiques to the article. 3) Aisha saying God hastens to fulfill Muhammad's desire is evidence from within Islam that critics have used to criticize Muhammad's polygamy. I don't see how this is irrelevant or lacks notability. 4) where exactly are my arguments mentioned in other articles? Your attacks are hollow are read like someone trying to minimize damage to Muhammad's image. -- Appleweb ( talk) 09:00, 5 June 2023 (UTC)
@ StarkReport, Making separate sub-section, since I am not involved in above said edit war ( and as of now no plans to edit this article). I am just trying to facilitate discussion and better conceptualization. Please help in understanding following aspects.
and does not risk cherry picking?.. The central purpose of this article is to contain valid criticisms. ..
Bookku ( talk) 04:34, 3 June 2023 (UTC)
Ali Sina is an activist without qualifications in Islamic studies. His works lack peer-reviewed sources and are self-published, lacking the rigorous scrutiny required for reliable academic research.
Similarly, the IslamQA website relies on original research, lacks editorial oversight, and has a non-neutral viewpoint, making it an unsatisfactory source according to Wikipedia.
Furthermore, it is important to note that the information provided in the section about Aisha's age is redundant. The first part of the section has already presented the established background concerning Aisha's age at betrothal and consummation. The subsequent line merely alludes to a differing viewpoint from a minority perspective. Hence, this sentence is considered unnecessary repetition. StarkReport ( talk) 12:15, 7 July 2023 (UTC)
Sounds like the Wikipedia-article is taking Islamic belief as fact. I tried to change that to bring critical distance into the mix. That was reverted - why? @ user:StarkReport -- Leo Navis ( talk) 11:26, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
Can it be mentioned that, in defense of Muhammad's marriage to Aisha, in 1275, the marriageable age was 12 in England (ref. Marriageable age#cite note-Stephen Robertson, University of Sydney, Australia-22). Having s** with a girl was 10+. Until 1875, that was the case. Then it became 13 (ref. Marriageable age#cite note-26). So, as recently as 1875, the marriageable age was set pretty low! So, if you look at Muhammad's time, it's no surprise that marriage ages were as low as they were. watermelon66 ( talk) 14:22, 4 February 2024 (UTC)
One source in this article cites Quran 33:50 as saying that Muhammad had 11 wives. However, I have checked multiple translations of this verse and I have seen nothing to this effect. Perhaps it is mentioned in a different section of the Quran, but I am not sure about that. Mayhair ( talk) 08:43, 24 February 2024 (UTC)