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These comments have been migrated from the Creatine talk page as they discuss supplementation. {[subst:unsigned2|19:45, 15 February 2007|Qrater }}
This article needs to list side effects, and sources for the list of side effects. As is, this article would lead individuals to believe there are no side effects. This is not true. This is most likely due to Supplement companies contributing a lot of this article, most likely the ones named in the article. Muscletech is notorious for trolling sites and forums attempting to better themselves and their overpriced products, regardless, within a week or so someone should post the well documented side effects of creatine, or I'll write up a list of the side effects mentioned in documents from the Mayo Clinic.
Chk this:
"Current studies indicate that short-term creatine supplementation in healthy individuals is safe (Robinson et al., 2000). Longer-term studies have occasionally been done, but have been small. One such study that is often cited involved a minimum length of 3 months, but only had 10 creatine subjects (Mayhew et al 2002)."
Robinson et al., 2000/Mayhew et al 2002 is not proper documentation for a wikipedia article.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.255.15.9 ( talk) 15:19, 6 January 2007 (UTC).
--Just because it's safe doesn't mean there aren't side effects. Let's cut the crap and someone post some -reported- side effects. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.216.252.220 ( talk) 19:06, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
Have removed this rubbish "causes large ejaculation from penis sometimes up to a gallon of fluids". ozboy 5/10/06
One well documented side effect is the increased conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone, see this 2006 study: [2]. Increased dihydrotestosertone has several documented side effects like acne, male pattern baldness, increased prostate size (the benign variety) and possibly prostate cancer. For me, the increased dihydrotestosterone is certainly the most serious side effect of creatine supplementation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.83.212.239 ( talk) 13:49, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
This link [3] needs to be added to the list of references at the bottom of the article. If anyone spots any other studies cited that aren't at the bottom, please add them. Thanks. Yankees76 17:42, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Someone should add that Creatine is not an anabolic steroid and has no relation to anabolic steroids. This seems to be one of the most common misconceptions concerning creatine in the public that I know of. As absurd as it is. I think it atleast belongs here somewhere.
I agree with this opinion. I had the above misconception. I found the following article to be an interesting source: http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/creatine.html .
Someone should add the key creatine arguments of about its use as a dietary supplement for research intrests. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.82.9.81 ( talk) 01:21, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
How about adding the list of other effects recognized by the FDA (and some indication of how likely they are), and the foul body odor that creatine users are notorious for having?
Can anyone tell me, how long does it take to clear creatine from your system....i.e. can you take it for a brief period and get benefits but not have it show up on drug test for a college athlete. Does anyone know if it is forbidden by the NCAA rules?
Thats not 100% true. Since Creatine is made naturely in you body, it is not ever out of your system. A urine test can show higher than the norm levels of Creatine this in and of its self does not prove someone is taking a supplement as any number of medical conditions and diets can cause this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nukeguy04 ( talk • contribs) 23:56, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
bill are there creatine blockers or inhibitors? itd be interesting to know if there are, i had a conversation with a guy last week who claimed that coffee is a creatine inhibitor. is there documented evidence of this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Billleo74 ( talk • contribs) 16:51, 28 January 2007 (UTC).
Caffeine is known to cause dehydration through diuresis, although during athletic performance and with increased tolerance this effect may be reduced. I think the possible effect of caffeine induced dehydration, coupled with the increased hydration needs placed on the body during creatine supplementation, provides an explanation for any myths/rumors/chinese whispers that creatine and caffeine can "cancel each other out". -Anonymous Coward —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.8.79.21 ( talk) 20:12, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
The following sentence is unclear: At the time, low-potency creatine supplements were available in Britain, but creatine supplements designed for strength enhancement were not commercially available until 1993 when a company called Experimental and Applied Sciences (EAS) introduced the compound to the sports nutrition market under the name Phosphagen.
The "compound" was not creatine but creatine monohydrate. If no objection, I would like to change the word "compound" to "creatine monohydrate". GetAnabolics 20:02, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Creatine monohydrate is the same thing as creatine. It simply means that there is a water molecule "dissolved' in the creatine. That is, creatine and water in a 1:1 ratio, but in a solid solution, rather than a liquid one. There is no difference between the two. Even if you had "pure" creatine, the second you ingest it, it would dissolve in the water in your body. Likewise, the creatine monohydrate, once it dissolves in your body, the water molecule just joins the water solution as well.
I did a moderate re-work of the article, took out some POV stuff, unneeded details, product placement stuff, lots of citation templates. Lemme know if people have any problems. I also added a lead sentence, I can't think of what else to put in it. WLU 14:59, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Image:Phosphagen.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 09:22, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
From what people have said when they've been on this supplement, some of the side effects are diarrhea, head aches, cramping and aggression. Not too sure how I can list the reference, cause I read it in a magazine a while ago and don't know where it is nor the name of it, something 'health', 'Men's health'?! There is also the lack of study into the long term effects, mainly in the region of the kidneys. Well, thanks for the support Daily Rubbings 16:45, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Whilst reading this article, I got the impression that this supplement is safe and there is no harm in taking this. Hopefully this can be balanced, I am unsure whether a banner should be stuck up for neutrality. It should be changed, in google, one of the most popular hits leads to here, and can be misleading for those doing heavy "research" into the matter. Oh please, why won't anyone think of the children? Try the fish, yum mercury, Daily Rubbings 16:45, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
This should Be included in a criticism section where US Troops died with creatine intake during excersice —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.10.204.56 ( talk) 20:16:25, August 19, 2007 (UTC)
Comment: Although it has been banned I still feel that the military environment does not allow for creatine users to take it properly. A bodybuilder non military has the freedom of taking extra water if need be cutting back on protien etc... point being is that a bodybuilder non military can tailor his creatine intake or well maintain his diet AROUND creatine. Military personnel have orders, last minute TDY's, statistical alcohol drinking habits, 24hr shifts, shift changes such as one week grave yards next days. Given this its not a conducive environment for creatine and I can see how this would start to effect in a major way the military creatine user. Source: first hand experience....Ex military —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.180.140.105 ( talk) 15:29, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
The article states that "In some countries, such as France, creatine is banned". I have not been able to find a reference to any country other than France which has ever banned creatine. And apparently consuming creatine has always been legal in France, you just had to get it from some other country. I have also seen recent references to people who now say creatine is readily available in France. Does anyone have the facts on this? Mmm ( talk) 07:49, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
One might also want to know ( at least i do) WHY these bans are in effect (if they are) is it because it is considered doping, or because they (these creatinederivatives) have not gone through enough trials to yet be proven safe? 217.13.226.39 ( talk) 13:58, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Hello, I live in France and you can buy Creatine in the pharmacy or even shops.
for example this site has creatin and you can clearly see 3 shops with addresses in Paris : http://www.toutelanutrition.com/front_navigation/boutique_nutrition — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.22.91.249 ( talk) 12:48, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
I can confirm it's readily available in France and therefore is probably legal nowadays. However I found this Pubmed article from 2001, which says why it's not legal in France: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11317142. The short of it is that it is produced from sarcosine which might originate from cow, and the fear of the so called mad-cow disease which was then very much of a concern, together with that some "contaminants", namely dicyandiamide, dihydrotriazines, creatinine, ions, are or might be formed during the production process. I haven't yet made further investigations, I put that here for what it is worth. 90.3.41.89 ( talk) 22:38, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
After a wee bit of investigation work, I found this: http://www.fitnesspont.hu/mass-shop/etkezes/FactSheetNo2_BSE.pdf, where one manufacturer claims there are several different processes through which one can obtain creatine, and that the one that manufacturer uses is safe in regard of Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy. This manufacturer makes same sort of claim elsewhere about the presence or not of contaminants in it's product. 90.3.41.89 ( talk) 23:02, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm a little disappointed that this article fails to discuss the well recognized research on the effects of Creatine use for people with Poly-Cystic Kidney Disease (PKD). I recall researching Creatine a number of years ago and this was a common thread. I tried Creatine for a while knowing this risk but then found out my father has PKD which gives my a 50% chance of having PKD... Would hate to have not known of this risk. Please see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11136170 Jponline77 ( talk) 19:29, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
The para that describes this looks like the author took a study that found one patient with increased compartmental pressure after supplementing AND working out, and extended this finding with an entire paragraph talking of the dire consequences of Chronic Compartment Syndrome and postulating that a number of creatine users may suffer lower leg pain.
This is clearly synthesis, and would welcome suggestions on how to make this more scientific and accurate. HelpnWP ( talk) 02:19, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
Hi i added some stuff, citing the following site as a reference. the site seems reliable to me. does anyone have an idea on how to check its reliability? or how to underline the fact that i'm not 100% sure about it being reliable? http://www.exrx.net/Nutrition/Supplements/Creatine.html Gregie156 ( talk) 10:24, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
That site actually looks pretty reputable, judging from the NCSA textbook on the main page, and it's gear toward collegiate coaches. However, I don't know if that site's references could be trusted any more than those already used in the article. I'm sure coaches are very performance-driven... Steinwnj ( talk) 8:59, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
I have been looking througth the articles and can not find anything about what is usually made from: f. ex. slaugtherhouse waste, fish or such. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.220.102.171 ( talk) 13:04, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
These two articles contradict each other as to whether supplementation has diarrhea and muscle cramps as side effects:
/info/en/?search=Creatine#Supplements:
Side effects
- ...
- Potential muscle cramps / strains / pulls
- ...
- Diarrhea
- ...
/info/en/?search=Creatine#Supplements (emphasis mine):
A 2009 systematic review discredited concerns that creatine supplementation could affect hydration status and heat tolerance and lead to muscle cramping and diarrhea.
I don't know which is "true," but obviously, the disagreement is confusing.
Jamiejackson ( talk) 18:18, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
Regarding creatine side effects. It's important to know what the true side effects are. People who use creatine may be taking other drugs or supplements that might be causing some of the side effects that are purported to be from creatine. For example, a high number of creatine users are bodybuilders who also take steroids. If a bodybuilder that takes anabolic steroids and creatine suffers kidney or liver damage how does one know that the organ damage came from creatine and not the anabolic steroids the bodybuilder was using? It's very confusing. Qewr4231 ( talk) 07:53, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
I have noticed what you are talking about. The creatine page does not mention much about muscle cramps, diarrhea, and upset stomach while the creatine supplements page mentions muscle cramps, diarrhea, and upset stomach. The creatine page seems to focus more on organ (liver, kidneys) health. Qewr4231 ( talk) 08:04, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4469200/
A study on ethyl ester claiming the opposite of what the article says Meel11223 ( talk) 13:33, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
Hello everyone, I added content to "Uses," added citations and content to "Side Effects," and added a "Supplementation Protocol" section. Please review my edits for errors and content! Thanks!!! Uses:
A survey of 21,000 college athletes showed that 14% of athletes take creatine supplements to improve performance. [1] Non-athletes report taking creatine supplements to improve appearance. [1] There is little data to show that taking creatine supplements without exercise improves performance. One study observed that increases in maximum leg press strength were comparable between groups with creatine supplementation without resistant training and the resistance training with a placebo; however, the increase in strength was over five times greater for the combined creatine supplementation and resistant training group. [2] Therefore, it is unclear whether creatine supplementation without exercise can considerably change performance or appearance. However, studies have shown that creatine supplementation can preserve lean tissue mass, strength, and endurance, minimizing muscle atrophy in patients with immobilized upper limbs. [3]
Side-effects:
Weight gain due to extra water retention to the muscle [4] [5]
The International Society of Sports Nutrition recommends that high school athletes take creatine only if they are past puberty, eating a well-balanced, performance-enhancing diet, and is involved in serious competitive training. [6]
Researchers have proposed that higher serum levels of creatine may be associated with stress on the kidneys, but it has been shown that athletes, regardless of whether they were CM users have higher serum levels of creatine. This suggests, that having higher creatine serum levels does not imply stress on the kidneys. [7]
References
:2
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).:3
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).{{
cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: PMC format (
link) CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (
link)
:0
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).--— Preceding unsigned comment added by 13:16, 8 May 2018 ( talk • contribs) BetaEdits (UTC)
Various supplementation protocols have been studied and proven effective at increasing intramuscular concentrations of creatine. The most common protocol called the "loading" protocol involves consuming 0.3 grams/kg/day of creatine monophosphate (CM) for 5 – 7 days and then a maintenance dose of 3–5 grams/day as long as desired. For example, a 100 kg weightlifter may consume 30 grams of CM per day (say, 7.5 g taken four times per day) for 7 days and then 3-5 grams/day thereafter. This "loading" protocol is reported in the literature to increase muscle creatine concentrations by 10-40%. Other loading protocol studies observed that taking CM supplements with protein or carbohydrates or both can not only reduce the duration of the loading stage but also increase muscle creatine concentrations. One study reported a 60% increase in muscle creatine concentrations when 5 g creatine supplements were combined with a 93 g of carbohydrates. [1] Another effective supplementation protocol called "cycling" involves re-loading every 3 to 4 weeks with the traditional loading dosage for 3-5 days. Without this re-loading, creatine levels can drop to basal levels after a period of 4-6 weeks. Other studies observed that ergogenic effects can be achieved without the loading phase. However, the concentration of muscle creatine may increase more slowly as compared with the loading protocol.
Uses:
A survey of 21,000 college athletes showed that 14% of athletes take creatine supplements to improve performance. Non-athletes report taking creatine supplements to improve appearance. There is little data to show that taking creatine supplements without exercise improves performance. One study observed that increases in maximum leg press strength were comparable between groups with creatine supplementation without resistant training and the resistance training with a placebo; however, the increase in strength was over five times greater for the combined creatine supplementation and resistant training group. Therefore, it is unclear whether creatine supplementation without exercise can considerably change performance or appearance. However, studies have shown that creatine supplementation can preserve lean tissue mass, strength, and endurance, minimizing muscle atrophy in patients with immobilized upper limbs.
Side-effects:
Weight gain due to extra water retention to the muscle
The International Society of Sports Nutrition recommends that high school athletes take creatine only if they are past puberty, eating a well-balanced, performance-enhancing diet, and is involved in serious competitive training.
Researchers have proposed that higher serum levels of creatine may be associated with stress on the kidneys, but it has been shown that athletes, regardless of whether they were CM users have higher serum levels of creatine. This suggests, that having higher creatine serum levels does not imply stress on the kidneys.
References
-- BetaEdits ( talk) 12:51, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
I merged this page back to Creatine. This had been split out from that page, away back in 2007. In the ensuing 11 years the creatine article blew up to recreate the supplement content there, and the articles developed independently, saying different, partial, and inconsistent things. They also each became shot through with bad content including blatant spam.
I left a similar message on the supplement talk page.
If folks want to discuss a resplit that is fine, but we would have to be careful not to let that happen again. Please discuss there, if you want to discuss a new WP:SPLIT. Jytdog ( talk) 14:16, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Creatine supplements redirect. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This redirect does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
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![]() | The contents of the Creatine supplements page were merged into Creatine and it now redirects there. For the contribution history and old versions of the merged article please see its history. |
These comments have been migrated from the Creatine talk page as they discuss supplementation. {[subst:unsigned2|19:45, 15 February 2007|Qrater }}
This article needs to list side effects, and sources for the list of side effects. As is, this article would lead individuals to believe there are no side effects. This is not true. This is most likely due to Supplement companies contributing a lot of this article, most likely the ones named in the article. Muscletech is notorious for trolling sites and forums attempting to better themselves and their overpriced products, regardless, within a week or so someone should post the well documented side effects of creatine, or I'll write up a list of the side effects mentioned in documents from the Mayo Clinic.
Chk this:
"Current studies indicate that short-term creatine supplementation in healthy individuals is safe (Robinson et al., 2000). Longer-term studies have occasionally been done, but have been small. One such study that is often cited involved a minimum length of 3 months, but only had 10 creatine subjects (Mayhew et al 2002)."
Robinson et al., 2000/Mayhew et al 2002 is not proper documentation for a wikipedia article.
—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.255.15.9 ( talk) 15:19, 6 January 2007 (UTC).
--Just because it's safe doesn't mean there aren't side effects. Let's cut the crap and someone post some -reported- side effects. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.216.252.220 ( talk) 19:06, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
Have removed this rubbish "causes large ejaculation from penis sometimes up to a gallon of fluids". ozboy 5/10/06
One well documented side effect is the increased conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone, see this 2006 study: [2]. Increased dihydrotestosertone has several documented side effects like acne, male pattern baldness, increased prostate size (the benign variety) and possibly prostate cancer. For me, the increased dihydrotestosterone is certainly the most serious side effect of creatine supplementation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.83.212.239 ( talk) 13:49, 9 December 2007 (UTC)
This link [3] needs to be added to the list of references at the bottom of the article. If anyone spots any other studies cited that aren't at the bottom, please add them. Thanks. Yankees76 17:42, 22 August 2006 (UTC)
Someone should add that Creatine is not an anabolic steroid and has no relation to anabolic steroids. This seems to be one of the most common misconceptions concerning creatine in the public that I know of. As absurd as it is. I think it atleast belongs here somewhere.
I agree with this opinion. I had the above misconception. I found the following article to be an interesting source: http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/creatine.html .
Someone should add the key creatine arguments of about its use as a dietary supplement for research intrests. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.82.9.81 ( talk) 01:21, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
How about adding the list of other effects recognized by the FDA (and some indication of how likely they are), and the foul body odor that creatine users are notorious for having?
Can anyone tell me, how long does it take to clear creatine from your system....i.e. can you take it for a brief period and get benefits but not have it show up on drug test for a college athlete. Does anyone know if it is forbidden by the NCAA rules?
Thats not 100% true. Since Creatine is made naturely in you body, it is not ever out of your system. A urine test can show higher than the norm levels of Creatine this in and of its self does not prove someone is taking a supplement as any number of medical conditions and diets can cause this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Nukeguy04 ( talk • contribs) 23:56, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
bill are there creatine blockers or inhibitors? itd be interesting to know if there are, i had a conversation with a guy last week who claimed that coffee is a creatine inhibitor. is there documented evidence of this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Billleo74 ( talk • contribs) 16:51, 28 January 2007 (UTC).
Caffeine is known to cause dehydration through diuresis, although during athletic performance and with increased tolerance this effect may be reduced. I think the possible effect of caffeine induced dehydration, coupled with the increased hydration needs placed on the body during creatine supplementation, provides an explanation for any myths/rumors/chinese whispers that creatine and caffeine can "cancel each other out". -Anonymous Coward —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.8.79.21 ( talk) 20:12, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
The following sentence is unclear: At the time, low-potency creatine supplements were available in Britain, but creatine supplements designed for strength enhancement were not commercially available until 1993 when a company called Experimental and Applied Sciences (EAS) introduced the compound to the sports nutrition market under the name Phosphagen.
The "compound" was not creatine but creatine monohydrate. If no objection, I would like to change the word "compound" to "creatine monohydrate". GetAnabolics 20:02, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Creatine monohydrate is the same thing as creatine. It simply means that there is a water molecule "dissolved' in the creatine. That is, creatine and water in a 1:1 ratio, but in a solid solution, rather than a liquid one. There is no difference between the two. Even if you had "pure" creatine, the second you ingest it, it would dissolve in the water in your body. Likewise, the creatine monohydrate, once it dissolves in your body, the water molecule just joins the water solution as well.
I did a moderate re-work of the article, took out some POV stuff, unneeded details, product placement stuff, lots of citation templates. Lemme know if people have any problems. I also added a lead sentence, I can't think of what else to put in it. WLU 14:59, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
Image:Phosphagen.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.
If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. BetacommandBot 09:22, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
From what people have said when they've been on this supplement, some of the side effects are diarrhea, head aches, cramping and aggression. Not too sure how I can list the reference, cause I read it in a magazine a while ago and don't know where it is nor the name of it, something 'health', 'Men's health'?! There is also the lack of study into the long term effects, mainly in the region of the kidneys. Well, thanks for the support Daily Rubbings 16:45, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
Whilst reading this article, I got the impression that this supplement is safe and there is no harm in taking this. Hopefully this can be balanced, I am unsure whether a banner should be stuck up for neutrality. It should be changed, in google, one of the most popular hits leads to here, and can be misleading for those doing heavy "research" into the matter. Oh please, why won't anyone think of the children? Try the fish, yum mercury, Daily Rubbings 16:45, 12 June 2007 (UTC)
This should Be included in a criticism section where US Troops died with creatine intake during excersice —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.10.204.56 ( talk) 20:16:25, August 19, 2007 (UTC)
Comment: Although it has been banned I still feel that the military environment does not allow for creatine users to take it properly. A bodybuilder non military has the freedom of taking extra water if need be cutting back on protien etc... point being is that a bodybuilder non military can tailor his creatine intake or well maintain his diet AROUND creatine. Military personnel have orders, last minute TDY's, statistical alcohol drinking habits, 24hr shifts, shift changes such as one week grave yards next days. Given this its not a conducive environment for creatine and I can see how this would start to effect in a major way the military creatine user. Source: first hand experience....Ex military —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.180.140.105 ( talk) 15:29, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
The article states that "In some countries, such as France, creatine is banned". I have not been able to find a reference to any country other than France which has ever banned creatine. And apparently consuming creatine has always been legal in France, you just had to get it from some other country. I have also seen recent references to people who now say creatine is readily available in France. Does anyone have the facts on this? Mmm ( talk) 07:49, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
One might also want to know ( at least i do) WHY these bans are in effect (if they are) is it because it is considered doping, or because they (these creatinederivatives) have not gone through enough trials to yet be proven safe? 217.13.226.39 ( talk) 13:58, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
Hello, I live in France and you can buy Creatine in the pharmacy or even shops.
for example this site has creatin and you can clearly see 3 shops with addresses in Paris : http://www.toutelanutrition.com/front_navigation/boutique_nutrition — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.22.91.249 ( talk) 12:48, 12 July 2014 (UTC)
I can confirm it's readily available in France and therefore is probably legal nowadays. However I found this Pubmed article from 2001, which says why it's not legal in France: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11317142. The short of it is that it is produced from sarcosine which might originate from cow, and the fear of the so called mad-cow disease which was then very much of a concern, together with that some "contaminants", namely dicyandiamide, dihydrotriazines, creatinine, ions, are or might be formed during the production process. I haven't yet made further investigations, I put that here for what it is worth. 90.3.41.89 ( talk) 22:38, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
After a wee bit of investigation work, I found this: http://www.fitnesspont.hu/mass-shop/etkezes/FactSheetNo2_BSE.pdf, where one manufacturer claims there are several different processes through which one can obtain creatine, and that the one that manufacturer uses is safe in regard of Bovine Spongiform Encephalopathy. This manufacturer makes same sort of claim elsewhere about the presence or not of contaminants in it's product. 90.3.41.89 ( talk) 23:02, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
I'm a little disappointed that this article fails to discuss the well recognized research on the effects of Creatine use for people with Poly-Cystic Kidney Disease (PKD). I recall researching Creatine a number of years ago and this was a common thread. I tried Creatine for a while knowing this risk but then found out my father has PKD which gives my a 50% chance of having PKD... Would hate to have not known of this risk. Please see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11136170 Jponline77 ( talk) 19:29, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
The para that describes this looks like the author took a study that found one patient with increased compartmental pressure after supplementing AND working out, and extended this finding with an entire paragraph talking of the dire consequences of Chronic Compartment Syndrome and postulating that a number of creatine users may suffer lower leg pain.
This is clearly synthesis, and would welcome suggestions on how to make this more scientific and accurate. HelpnWP ( talk) 02:19, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
Hi i added some stuff, citing the following site as a reference. the site seems reliable to me. does anyone have an idea on how to check its reliability? or how to underline the fact that i'm not 100% sure about it being reliable? http://www.exrx.net/Nutrition/Supplements/Creatine.html Gregie156 ( talk) 10:24, 25 September 2009 (UTC)
That site actually looks pretty reputable, judging from the NCSA textbook on the main page, and it's gear toward collegiate coaches. However, I don't know if that site's references could be trusted any more than those already used in the article. I'm sure coaches are very performance-driven... Steinwnj ( talk) 8:59, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
I have been looking througth the articles and can not find anything about what is usually made from: f. ex. slaugtherhouse waste, fish or such. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.220.102.171 ( talk) 13:04, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
These two articles contradict each other as to whether supplementation has diarrhea and muscle cramps as side effects:
/info/en/?search=Creatine#Supplements:
Side effects
- ...
- Potential muscle cramps / strains / pulls
- ...
- Diarrhea
- ...
/info/en/?search=Creatine#Supplements (emphasis mine):
A 2009 systematic review discredited concerns that creatine supplementation could affect hydration status and heat tolerance and lead to muscle cramping and diarrhea.
I don't know which is "true," but obviously, the disagreement is confusing.
Jamiejackson ( talk) 18:18, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
Regarding creatine side effects. It's important to know what the true side effects are. People who use creatine may be taking other drugs or supplements that might be causing some of the side effects that are purported to be from creatine. For example, a high number of creatine users are bodybuilders who also take steroids. If a bodybuilder that takes anabolic steroids and creatine suffers kidney or liver damage how does one know that the organ damage came from creatine and not the anabolic steroids the bodybuilder was using? It's very confusing. Qewr4231 ( talk) 07:53, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
I have noticed what you are talking about. The creatine page does not mention much about muscle cramps, diarrhea, and upset stomach while the creatine supplements page mentions muscle cramps, diarrhea, and upset stomach. The creatine page seems to focus more on organ (liver, kidneys) health. Qewr4231 ( talk) 08:04, 30 April 2018 (UTC)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4469200/
A study on ethyl ester claiming the opposite of what the article says Meel11223 ( talk) 13:33, 21 January 2017 (UTC)
Hello everyone, I added content to "Uses," added citations and content to "Side Effects," and added a "Supplementation Protocol" section. Please review my edits for errors and content! Thanks!!! Uses:
A survey of 21,000 college athletes showed that 14% of athletes take creatine supplements to improve performance. [1] Non-athletes report taking creatine supplements to improve appearance. [1] There is little data to show that taking creatine supplements without exercise improves performance. One study observed that increases in maximum leg press strength were comparable between groups with creatine supplementation without resistant training and the resistance training with a placebo; however, the increase in strength was over five times greater for the combined creatine supplementation and resistant training group. [2] Therefore, it is unclear whether creatine supplementation without exercise can considerably change performance or appearance. However, studies have shown that creatine supplementation can preserve lean tissue mass, strength, and endurance, minimizing muscle atrophy in patients with immobilized upper limbs. [3]
Side-effects:
Weight gain due to extra water retention to the muscle [4] [5]
The International Society of Sports Nutrition recommends that high school athletes take creatine only if they are past puberty, eating a well-balanced, performance-enhancing diet, and is involved in serious competitive training. [6]
Researchers have proposed that higher serum levels of creatine may be associated with stress on the kidneys, but it has been shown that athletes, regardless of whether they were CM users have higher serum levels of creatine. This suggests, that having higher creatine serum levels does not imply stress on the kidneys. [7]
References
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Various supplementation protocols have been studied and proven effective at increasing intramuscular concentrations of creatine. The most common protocol called the "loading" protocol involves consuming 0.3 grams/kg/day of creatine monophosphate (CM) for 5 – 7 days and then a maintenance dose of 3–5 grams/day as long as desired. For example, a 100 kg weightlifter may consume 30 grams of CM per day (say, 7.5 g taken four times per day) for 7 days and then 3-5 grams/day thereafter. This "loading" protocol is reported in the literature to increase muscle creatine concentrations by 10-40%. Other loading protocol studies observed that taking CM supplements with protein or carbohydrates or both can not only reduce the duration of the loading stage but also increase muscle creatine concentrations. One study reported a 60% increase in muscle creatine concentrations when 5 g creatine supplements were combined with a 93 g of carbohydrates. [1] Another effective supplementation protocol called "cycling" involves re-loading every 3 to 4 weeks with the traditional loading dosage for 3-5 days. Without this re-loading, creatine levels can drop to basal levels after a period of 4-6 weeks. Other studies observed that ergogenic effects can be achieved without the loading phase. However, the concentration of muscle creatine may increase more slowly as compared with the loading protocol.
Uses:
A survey of 21,000 college athletes showed that 14% of athletes take creatine supplements to improve performance. Non-athletes report taking creatine supplements to improve appearance. There is little data to show that taking creatine supplements without exercise improves performance. One study observed that increases in maximum leg press strength were comparable between groups with creatine supplementation without resistant training and the resistance training with a placebo; however, the increase in strength was over five times greater for the combined creatine supplementation and resistant training group. Therefore, it is unclear whether creatine supplementation without exercise can considerably change performance or appearance. However, studies have shown that creatine supplementation can preserve lean tissue mass, strength, and endurance, minimizing muscle atrophy in patients with immobilized upper limbs.
Side-effects:
Weight gain due to extra water retention to the muscle
The International Society of Sports Nutrition recommends that high school athletes take creatine only if they are past puberty, eating a well-balanced, performance-enhancing diet, and is involved in serious competitive training.
Researchers have proposed that higher serum levels of creatine may be associated with stress on the kidneys, but it has been shown that athletes, regardless of whether they were CM users have higher serum levels of creatine. This suggests, that having higher creatine serum levels does not imply stress on the kidneys.
References
-- BetaEdits ( talk) 12:51, 8 May 2018 (UTC)
I merged this page back to Creatine. This had been split out from that page, away back in 2007. In the ensuing 11 years the creatine article blew up to recreate the supplement content there, and the articles developed independently, saying different, partial, and inconsistent things. They also each became shot through with bad content including blatant spam.
I left a similar message on the supplement talk page.
If folks want to discuss a resplit that is fine, but we would have to be careful not to let that happen again. Please discuss there, if you want to discuss a new WP:SPLIT. Jytdog ( talk) 14:16, 8 May 2018 (UTC)