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I believe there are a number of significant problems in this article which led me to put in a bold revision That was reverted; fair enough. Instead, here are some piece-meal comments:
DeCausa ( talk) 17:35, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
I'd be grateful for comments on my post. Anything on Yugoslavia can go above. Thanks.
As requested, and in answer to the first few points: I can see no reason why the OED online should be considered definitive. This is not Simple Wikipedia. I don't have access at the moment to a proper dictionary, but these are useful: In a 2001 judgment, the Federal Court of Australia made two relevant pronouncements
here: "11 It may be noted at the outset that the expression "foreign country" is defined, subject to any contrary intention, in s 22(1)(f) of the Acts Interpretation Act 1901(Cth) to mean: "any country (whether or not an independent sovereign state) outside Australia and the external Territories" and "13 We were referred both to The Oxford English Dictionary (2nd ed, 1989) and The Macquarie Dictionary (3rd ed, 1997) for the meaning of the word "country" ... It seems that there was a transition in the meaning of the word to a district with distinct or defined physical characteristics, and that it came to be used for a territory or land of a nation usually, although not necessarily, an independent state." Again, the Federal Court of Australia:
Reel v Holder 1979 3 All ER 104; "The word [country] must be given its ordinary meaning, having regard to the `factual matrix' in which it was formed. I should find it surprising if the ordinary person did not regard Scotland and Wales as being examples of countries; in doing so they would not be considering the existence, or absence, of a separate government, nor the desire, or lack of it, of any of the inhabitants of either area to achieve the position of belonging to a separate state. If the ordinary person was asked whether, in the context of international sport, Scotland and Wales were separate countries I think he would say, `Of course'." On appeal, Reel v Holder 1981 3 All ER 321, Eveleigh LJ said at 326: "I think that the word [country] is used in the rules in the sense of an area or part of the world where the applicant has authority in relation to athletics and an area to which the word `country' is appropriate because the inhabitants share the right to live there in common as one distinct people. This is a question to be answered broadly and not on a political basis alone. Political status may have some relevance. It may perhaps help to see the inhabitants as being one people but it is not the decisive factor."" Hope that helps.
Daicaregos (
talk)
22:35, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
OED.com says: 1. a. A tract or expanse of land of undefined extent; a region, district. b. without a and pl. c. The transition from 1 to 2 is seen in the application of the word to a district having distinct physical or other characteristics, as the chalk country, the fen country, thecountry of the red-deer, the stag-hunting country, etc.
2. a. A tract or district having more or less definite limits in relation to human occupation. e.g. owned by the same lord or proprietor, or inhabited by people of the same race, dialect, occupation, etc.; spec. preceded by a personal name: the region associated with a particular person or his works; Formerly often applied to a county, barony, or other part; in Ireland and Scotland, still to the territory of a clan as the O'Neil Country,Lochiel's Country. b. God's (own) country , the United States, or some particular part of the United States; also applied to other countries, and, more generally, an ‘earthly paradise’. orig.U.S.
3. The territory or land of a nation; usually an independent state, or a region once independent and still distinct in race, language, institutions, or historical memories, as England, Scotland, and Ireland, in the United Kingdom, etc. With political changes, what were originally distinct countries have become provinces or districts of one country, and vice versa; the modern tendency being to identify the term with the existing political condition.
4. The land of a person's birth, citizenship, residence, etc.; used alike in the wider sense of native land, and in the narrower one of the particular district to which a person belongs.a. with poss. pron. b. absol. Native land, fatherland.
5. a. ‘The parts of a region distant from cities or courts’ (Johnson); the rural districts as distinct from the town or towns; sometimes applied to all outside the capital, called, by eminence, ‘town’.
6. a. The people of a district or state; the nation.
b. to appeal or go to the country : to appeal to the body of parliamentary electors from an adverse or doubtful vote of the House of Commons, which is practically done by the dissolution of Parliament: see appeal v. 5.
There's more, but irrelevant, stuff. Let me know if you want me to quote it too. Definition #3 seems relevant to this article. Daicaregos ( talk) 22:29, 30 May 2011 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I believe there are a number of significant problems in this article which led me to put in a bold revision That was reverted; fair enough. Instead, here are some piece-meal comments:
DeCausa ( talk) 17:35, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
I'd be grateful for comments on my post. Anything on Yugoslavia can go above. Thanks.
As requested, and in answer to the first few points: I can see no reason why the OED online should be considered definitive. This is not Simple Wikipedia. I don't have access at the moment to a proper dictionary, but these are useful: In a 2001 judgment, the Federal Court of Australia made two relevant pronouncements
here: "11 It may be noted at the outset that the expression "foreign country" is defined, subject to any contrary intention, in s 22(1)(f) of the Acts Interpretation Act 1901(Cth) to mean: "any country (whether or not an independent sovereign state) outside Australia and the external Territories" and "13 We were referred both to The Oxford English Dictionary (2nd ed, 1989) and The Macquarie Dictionary (3rd ed, 1997) for the meaning of the word "country" ... It seems that there was a transition in the meaning of the word to a district with distinct or defined physical characteristics, and that it came to be used for a territory or land of a nation usually, although not necessarily, an independent state." Again, the Federal Court of Australia:
Reel v Holder 1979 3 All ER 104; "The word [country] must be given its ordinary meaning, having regard to the `factual matrix' in which it was formed. I should find it surprising if the ordinary person did not regard Scotland and Wales as being examples of countries; in doing so they would not be considering the existence, or absence, of a separate government, nor the desire, or lack of it, of any of the inhabitants of either area to achieve the position of belonging to a separate state. If the ordinary person was asked whether, in the context of international sport, Scotland and Wales were separate countries I think he would say, `Of course'." On appeal, Reel v Holder 1981 3 All ER 321, Eveleigh LJ said at 326: "I think that the word [country] is used in the rules in the sense of an area or part of the world where the applicant has authority in relation to athletics and an area to which the word `country' is appropriate because the inhabitants share the right to live there in common as one distinct people. This is a question to be answered broadly and not on a political basis alone. Political status may have some relevance. It may perhaps help to see the inhabitants as being one people but it is not the decisive factor."" Hope that helps.
Daicaregos (
talk)
22:35, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
OED.com says: 1. a. A tract or expanse of land of undefined extent; a region, district. b. without a and pl. c. The transition from 1 to 2 is seen in the application of the word to a district having distinct physical or other characteristics, as the chalk country, the fen country, thecountry of the red-deer, the stag-hunting country, etc.
2. a. A tract or district having more or less definite limits in relation to human occupation. e.g. owned by the same lord or proprietor, or inhabited by people of the same race, dialect, occupation, etc.; spec. preceded by a personal name: the region associated with a particular person or his works; Formerly often applied to a county, barony, or other part; in Ireland and Scotland, still to the territory of a clan as the O'Neil Country,Lochiel's Country. b. God's (own) country , the United States, or some particular part of the United States; also applied to other countries, and, more generally, an ‘earthly paradise’. orig.U.S.
3. The territory or land of a nation; usually an independent state, or a region once independent and still distinct in race, language, institutions, or historical memories, as England, Scotland, and Ireland, in the United Kingdom, etc. With political changes, what were originally distinct countries have become provinces or districts of one country, and vice versa; the modern tendency being to identify the term with the existing political condition.
4. The land of a person's birth, citizenship, residence, etc.; used alike in the wider sense of native land, and in the narrower one of the particular district to which a person belongs.a. with poss. pron. b. absol. Native land, fatherland.
5. a. ‘The parts of a region distant from cities or courts’ (Johnson); the rural districts as distinct from the town or towns; sometimes applied to all outside the capital, called, by eminence, ‘town’.
6. a. The people of a district or state; the nation.
b. to appeal or go to the country : to appeal to the body of parliamentary electors from an adverse or doubtful vote of the House of Commons, which is practically done by the dissolution of Parliament: see appeal v. 5.
There's more, but irrelevant, stuff. Let me know if you want me to quote it too. Definition #3 seems relevant to this article. Daicaregos ( talk) 22:29, 30 May 2011 (UTC)