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There are 6 counties that have an ambiguous name: Békés county, Csongrád, Heves, Pest (county), Tolna and Veszprém County. Of these, Csongrád, Heves and Tolna need to be split, since they currently cover the county and a town. I want to open a discussion on two things:
Markussep 19:36, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
For me the criterium would be the size or historical significance of the town. It doesn't matter what was first, or what was named after what. What would the average user think of when reading "Tolna", the town or the county?
I totally agree about consistent naming. At Wikipedia:WikiProject Subnational entities/Naming you can see the current use for other countries' subdivisions. Personally, I prefer to use the subdivision term only when it's necessary for disambiguation, like it's done for all the countries with an asterisk in the list. If you're going to move them all to X County, there's no discussion about how significant the town is, that's an advantage. About the template, do you mean "Hungarian counties"? That's easily fixed with piping. BTW I think your split of Békés created a lot of wrong links (to the town instead of the county). Markussep 14:48, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I don't know whether the towns or the counties should be disambiguated by comments. Perhaps we do add the word "county" to counties in speech if they consist of only one element each. However, I wouldn't like to see them as "Tolna County", since "County" is not an official part of the name. I think I prefer the form "Tolna (county)" (also because of the option of piped linking); perhaps I could accept "Tolna county" as well, if it really has to be this way. Adam78 00:14, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
For me also the capital C is weird, but I'm not a native English speaker. I've gradually stopped worrying about details like that. What I do still find important is what the user sees when he/she types for instance Tolna after ../wiki/ . But well, all this can be solved. I'm OK with your X (county) option (and consequently, X is about the town). Alensha? Markussep 01:53, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
just to make things more complicated, it seems that Tolna is also the name of a US city... Alensha 13:48, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I agree about the need for consisteny, as required by the naming conventions on places guideline:
“All place names in an administrative division should share the same form. For example, when one article has been moved from "ShortName" to "ShortName [county]", then all the [counties] within a country should be moved to that form.”
So, even if in some cases the county is the primary topic, and the city (town, castle) after which it's named is a secondary topic, the article on the county should still be the one being disambiguated, for the predictability such consistency creates far outweights the issue of "what the primary topic is".
Regarding the disambiguation technique only (excluding for the moment the issue of "primary topic"), am I reading the above discussion correctly in understanding that there's an agreement on the following:
Best regards, Ev 21:28, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Ok, my mistake. After reading the discussion again, I see no clear agreement yet. The three issues are:
Let's see where we stand on each case:
Best regards, Ev 22:10, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Below the county (megye) level, there is another layer of administration known as "kistérség". Is the best english equivalent of this the "micro-region"? This is what I have been able to find most prevelent on English-translated megye websites. I wish to know because I will soon create an article about this layer, to include all of the proper maps. Thank you. Rarelibra 21:01, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 23:20, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
Can someone knowledgeable please add information that counties were called "vármegye" in the past, then from 1950 until 2022 were called just "megye" and then since 2023 are again called "vármegye"? Thx. Johnnyjanko ( talk) 07:41, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
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There are 6 counties that have an ambiguous name: Békés county, Csongrád, Heves, Pest (county), Tolna and Veszprém County. Of these, Csongrád, Heves and Tolna need to be split, since they currently cover the county and a town. I want to open a discussion on two things:
Markussep 19:36, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
For me the criterium would be the size or historical significance of the town. It doesn't matter what was first, or what was named after what. What would the average user think of when reading "Tolna", the town or the county?
I totally agree about consistent naming. At Wikipedia:WikiProject Subnational entities/Naming you can see the current use for other countries' subdivisions. Personally, I prefer to use the subdivision term only when it's necessary for disambiguation, like it's done for all the countries with an asterisk in the list. If you're going to move them all to X County, there's no discussion about how significant the town is, that's an advantage. About the template, do you mean "Hungarian counties"? That's easily fixed with piping. BTW I think your split of Békés created a lot of wrong links (to the town instead of the county). Markussep 14:48, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I don't know whether the towns or the counties should be disambiguated by comments. Perhaps we do add the word "county" to counties in speech if they consist of only one element each. However, I wouldn't like to see them as "Tolna County", since "County" is not an official part of the name. I think I prefer the form "Tolna (county)" (also because of the option of piped linking); perhaps I could accept "Tolna county" as well, if it really has to be this way. Adam78 00:14, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
For me also the capital C is weird, but I'm not a native English speaker. I've gradually stopped worrying about details like that. What I do still find important is what the user sees when he/she types for instance Tolna after ../wiki/ . But well, all this can be solved. I'm OK with your X (county) option (and consequently, X is about the town). Alensha? Markussep 01:53, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
just to make things more complicated, it seems that Tolna is also the name of a US city... Alensha 13:48, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I agree about the need for consisteny, as required by the naming conventions on places guideline:
“All place names in an administrative division should share the same form. For example, when one article has been moved from "ShortName" to "ShortName [county]", then all the [counties] within a country should be moved to that form.”
So, even if in some cases the county is the primary topic, and the city (town, castle) after which it's named is a secondary topic, the article on the county should still be the one being disambiguated, for the predictability such consistency creates far outweights the issue of "what the primary topic is".
Regarding the disambiguation technique only (excluding for the moment the issue of "primary topic"), am I reading the above discussion correctly in understanding that there's an agreement on the following:
Best regards, Ev 21:28, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Ok, my mistake. After reading the discussion again, I see no clear agreement yet. The three issues are:
Let's see where we stand on each case:
Best regards, Ev 22:10, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
Below the county (megye) level, there is another layer of administration known as "kistérség". Is the best english equivalent of this the "micro-region"? This is what I have been able to find most prevelent on English-translated megye websites. I wish to know because I will soon create an article about this layer, to include all of the proper maps. Thank you. Rarelibra 21:01, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for speedy deletion:
You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 23:20, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
Can someone knowledgeable please add information that counties were called "vármegye" in the past, then from 1950 until 2022 were called just "megye" and then since 2023 are again called "vármegye"? Thx. Johnnyjanko ( talk) 07:41, 20 July 2023 (UTC)