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no prefecture 2, but 2 prefectures 5?
Shall we move to
Prefectures? Prefecture/Districts that's the way it is done on German, Netherland, Swedish WP. Albanian uses (as said in de:WP) official qark/qarku, but often prefekturë/prefektura. I will do the move if there are no objections.
Tobias Conradi
(Talk) 23:04, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
On what sources is based the map that shows PD/PS differences on each prefecture? I doubt PD leads over so many prefectures, especially in the south. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.255.147.60 ( talk) 18:41, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
@ Kj1595: There are often several ways of describing things, and sometimes that causes misunderstandings. Regarding the levels of administration in a country, they can basically be described in two completely opposite ways, "top-down" or "bottom-up". In a top-down description, you start with the country, explain what is the top-level administrative division, then divide these again, possibly further down in more levels. In a bottom-up description, you start with some sort of atomic unit, then group them together in larger areas, possibly further up in more levels. Both these ways of description are valid, but you cannot use both of them at the same time.
As I understand it, with help from Google translate, §5 of the Albanian law on local administration starts by describing the municipalities (bashki) as the basic unit of local administration. (Both Google translate and different dictionaries indicate that "basic unit" is a closer translation than "first level" of njësi bazë in the original legal text.) Then it describes the counties (qark) as a second level unit. This makes it a bottom-up description, which is fine.
Wikipedia, however, is consistently using a top-down description when they use the terms "first-level", "second-level". This is described explicitly in the last paragraph of the lede section in the article
Administrative division: For clarity and convenience the standard neutral reference for the largest administrative subdivision of a country is called the "first-level administrative division" or "first administrative level". Next smaller is called "second-level administrative division" or "second administrative level".
The same thing is shown in a more concrete way in the
List of administrative divisions by country.
You can, of course, insist on using the terms "first-level", "second-level" differently for Albania than for the rest of the countries in the world. The problem is that readers will be confused, and I am not sure that will do any good for the articles about Albania's administrative levels. -- T*U ( talk) 20:50, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
the standard neutral reference for the largest administrative subdivision of a country is called the "first-level administrative division" or "first administrative level". -- T*U ( talk) 09:53, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
the lowest level of government(while I would prefer "the basic level"), the article Administrative regions of Greece explicitly says
first-level administrative entitiescomplying with standard usage in Wikipedia. Furthermore, in the templates for first-level and second-level articles, Greece follows the standard pattern. Also, I am still interested in how you would solve Albania in List of administrative divisions by country if you insist on following the law definitions. And by the way, the law does not really say "first level", but "basic unit", which is not exactly the same. -- T*U ( talk) 11:34, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
@ Kj1595 and Bes-ART: Suggested text:
The counties of Albania ( Albanian: Qarqet e Shqipërisë) are the largest administrative subdivisions of Albania. The 12 counties are composed of 61 municipalities, which are the basic territorial entities for local administration, consisting of 373 administrative units.
This way we avoid completely the conflicting use of "first-level", "second-level". We would have to keep this article in the first-level template, though, in order to harmonise with other countries (like Greece) and with List of administrative divisions by country. -- T*U ( talk) 12:56, 4 November 2020 (UTC) (Link to Administrative divisions of Albania added to proposal. -- T*U ( talk) 14:11, 4 November 2020 (UTC))
"Counties (Albanian: qarqe or qarqet), also sometimes known as prefectures (prefekturë)"
They are NEVER called "counties"! 79.106.203.67 ( talk) 12:21, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
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no prefecture 2, but 2 prefectures 5?
Shall we move to
Prefectures? Prefecture/Districts that's the way it is done on German, Netherland, Swedish WP. Albanian uses (as said in de:WP) official qark/qarku, but often prefekturë/prefektura. I will do the move if there are no objections.
Tobias Conradi
(Talk) 23:04, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
On what sources is based the map that shows PD/PS differences on each prefecture? I doubt PD leads over so many prefectures, especially in the south. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.255.147.60 ( talk) 18:41, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
@ Kj1595: There are often several ways of describing things, and sometimes that causes misunderstandings. Regarding the levels of administration in a country, they can basically be described in two completely opposite ways, "top-down" or "bottom-up". In a top-down description, you start with the country, explain what is the top-level administrative division, then divide these again, possibly further down in more levels. In a bottom-up description, you start with some sort of atomic unit, then group them together in larger areas, possibly further up in more levels. Both these ways of description are valid, but you cannot use both of them at the same time.
As I understand it, with help from Google translate, §5 of the Albanian law on local administration starts by describing the municipalities (bashki) as the basic unit of local administration. (Both Google translate and different dictionaries indicate that "basic unit" is a closer translation than "first level" of njësi bazë in the original legal text.) Then it describes the counties (qark) as a second level unit. This makes it a bottom-up description, which is fine.
Wikipedia, however, is consistently using a top-down description when they use the terms "first-level", "second-level". This is described explicitly in the last paragraph of the lede section in the article
Administrative division: For clarity and convenience the standard neutral reference for the largest administrative subdivision of a country is called the "first-level administrative division" or "first administrative level". Next smaller is called "second-level administrative division" or "second administrative level".
The same thing is shown in a more concrete way in the
List of administrative divisions by country.
You can, of course, insist on using the terms "first-level", "second-level" differently for Albania than for the rest of the countries in the world. The problem is that readers will be confused, and I am not sure that will do any good for the articles about Albania's administrative levels. -- T*U ( talk) 20:50, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
the standard neutral reference for the largest administrative subdivision of a country is called the "first-level administrative division" or "first administrative level". -- T*U ( talk) 09:53, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
the lowest level of government(while I would prefer "the basic level"), the article Administrative regions of Greece explicitly says
first-level administrative entitiescomplying with standard usage in Wikipedia. Furthermore, in the templates for first-level and second-level articles, Greece follows the standard pattern. Also, I am still interested in how you would solve Albania in List of administrative divisions by country if you insist on following the law definitions. And by the way, the law does not really say "first level", but "basic unit", which is not exactly the same. -- T*U ( talk) 11:34, 4 November 2020 (UTC)
@ Kj1595 and Bes-ART: Suggested text:
The counties of Albania ( Albanian: Qarqet e Shqipërisë) are the largest administrative subdivisions of Albania. The 12 counties are composed of 61 municipalities, which are the basic territorial entities for local administration, consisting of 373 administrative units.
This way we avoid completely the conflicting use of "first-level", "second-level". We would have to keep this article in the first-level template, though, in order to harmonise with other countries (like Greece) and with List of administrative divisions by country. -- T*U ( talk) 12:56, 4 November 2020 (UTC) (Link to Administrative divisions of Albania added to proposal. -- T*U ( talk) 14:11, 4 November 2020 (UTC))
"Counties (Albanian: qarqe or qarqet), also sometimes known as prefectures (prefekturë)"
They are NEVER called "counties"! 79.106.203.67 ( talk) 12:21, 6 September 2023 (UTC)