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Could sombody tell me how you "winch miners workers and materials into and out of the mine" with a steam pumping engine? I think it is time to better define whether we mean by "Cornish engine" an engine working on the [[|steam engine|Cornish principle]] (the normal usage as far as I can see) or just any type of engine built in Cornwall.-- John of Paris 09:21, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Ah, you've caught me napping there me there! Never heard of the man engine - an egg this grandma has never sucked. As for the Cruquius engine, I visited their site a long time ago - you're right, it's magnificent - pity it no longer works by steam. Anyway, see you back here in a week or two-- John of Paris 18:07, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the word "sough" from the article, and replaced it with "adit". They are basically the same thing, however "sough" is a colloquial term specific to the Derbyshire lead mining district that never made it to mainstream modern mining terminology. Adit is more universal and is the standard term in Cornwall.-- ▫Bad▫harlick♠ 23:28, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
The page has recently been moved from "Cornish engine" to "Cornish steam engine" - I think this was a mistake. A Cornish engine is a particular type of steam engine, while a "Cornish steam engine" could be any steam engine of any type used or built in Cornwall. Your thoughts? DuncanHill ( talk) 11:35, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
After reading this article I am still not sure what distinguishes a Cornish engine from other beam engines. Globbet ( talk) 21:47, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
Thurston describes the cycle but it is rather difficult to understand and the drawing in Hunter was hard to read. I believe Thurston's diagram in shown in this article, so I will try to use the lettering in the cycle description. If anyone has a good understanding of the cycle I could use help. You can see my attempted description in my undone edit. Hopefully I will be able to do the labeling and confirm the description in a few days. Phmoreno ( talk) 01:51, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
Does anyone know which was the last Cornish engine to be erected? I've got refs for it being both Dorothea Quarry and also Hodbarrow mine, in the Lakes. Both are just into the 20th century. Possibly Dorothea was the last new build, Hodbarrow was the later re-erection of an older engine from elsewhere? Andy Dingley ( talk) 07:36, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
Per this change https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Cornish_engine&type=revision&diff=724202180&oldid=722386777
Why does it now say, "The principal advance of the Cornish engine was its increase in efficiency due the use of higher temperature steam made possible by a boilers capable of withstanding pressure." ? Rather than the previous, "[...] its increase in efficiency due to expansive working of the steam. "
Firstly this is unclear. An advantage compared to what? Compared to a condensing Watt engine, or compared to a Trevithick high pressure expansive engine? Secondly the added idea (unsourced of course) that the Cornish advantage was from some increased temperature and pressure, when these engines were actually working at lower pressures (and yet greater efficiency) than most contemporaries.
Further issues are the loss of "A Cornish engine pumps by a falling weight that is lifted by the engine." - this was a crucial change contemporary with the Cornish engine, made possible by the switch from bucket pumps to plunger pumps.
Also changing "Trevithick's early "puffer" engines discharged steam into the atmosphere. This differed from the Watt steam engine, which used low pressure steam and so depended in part on the creation of a vacuum when the steam was condensed." to "This differed from the Watt steam engine, which moved the condensing from the cylinder to a condenser separated from the cylinder;" is seriously misleading, as it implies that Watt's changes were to the Trevithick engine, and involved improving Trevithicks's condenser (Trevithick was of course later and non-condensing).
Also change "duty" to efficiency is wrong - far too simplistic, and it also makes no sense when a value of 50 million is still quoted. What's an efficiency of 50 million?
Also, why the change (also at Watt steam engine) from UK to US spelling? Andy Dingley ( talk) 20:42, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
In 1830 naval engineers witnessed trials of Cornish engines achieving 6 times the dusy of Boulton and Watt.
Small, horizontal non-condensing engines added as supplementary power connected to the main drive and exhausting to existing low pressure engines (Truchers) “more widely used was adding a vertical high pressure cylinder beneath Cornish engine’s beam, exhausting to the cylinder of an existing Boulton and Watt engine.
Trevithick high pressure engine ran side by side with a Cornish engine for a number of years with equal duty. High pressure engine cost much less.
Some Cornish engines economy was less than 2 pounds of coal per hp-hr and Cornish engines with steam jackets typically used <2.5 lb coal per hp-hr
Phmoreno ( talk) 21:34, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
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I believe Jonathan Hornblower around 1781, developed almost the same engine type, but because Watt patented most of the technology in 1778 or so, he couldn't sell it. In 1800 or so patents expired, and in 1804 the Cornish engine was basically a revival of the Hornblower design. 2A02:168:F609:0:5F8:C25A:2F16:ECD5 ( talk) 11:42, 26 June 2019 (UTC)
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Could sombody tell me how you "winch miners workers and materials into and out of the mine" with a steam pumping engine? I think it is time to better define whether we mean by "Cornish engine" an engine working on the [[|steam engine|Cornish principle]] (the normal usage as far as I can see) or just any type of engine built in Cornwall.-- John of Paris 09:21, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Ah, you've caught me napping there me there! Never heard of the man engine - an egg this grandma has never sucked. As for the Cruquius engine, I visited their site a long time ago - you're right, it's magnificent - pity it no longer works by steam. Anyway, see you back here in a week or two-- John of Paris 18:07, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
I have removed the word "sough" from the article, and replaced it with "adit". They are basically the same thing, however "sough" is a colloquial term specific to the Derbyshire lead mining district that never made it to mainstream modern mining terminology. Adit is more universal and is the standard term in Cornwall.-- ▫Bad▫harlick♠ 23:28, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
The page has recently been moved from "Cornish engine" to "Cornish steam engine" - I think this was a mistake. A Cornish engine is a particular type of steam engine, while a "Cornish steam engine" could be any steam engine of any type used or built in Cornwall. Your thoughts? DuncanHill ( talk) 11:35, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
After reading this article I am still not sure what distinguishes a Cornish engine from other beam engines. Globbet ( talk) 21:47, 13 May 2010 (UTC)
Thurston describes the cycle but it is rather difficult to understand and the drawing in Hunter was hard to read. I believe Thurston's diagram in shown in this article, so I will try to use the lettering in the cycle description. If anyone has a good understanding of the cycle I could use help. You can see my attempted description in my undone edit. Hopefully I will be able to do the labeling and confirm the description in a few days. Phmoreno ( talk) 01:51, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
Does anyone know which was the last Cornish engine to be erected? I've got refs for it being both Dorothea Quarry and also Hodbarrow mine, in the Lakes. Both are just into the 20th century. Possibly Dorothea was the last new build, Hodbarrow was the later re-erection of an older engine from elsewhere? Andy Dingley ( talk) 07:36, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
Per this change https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Cornish_engine&type=revision&diff=724202180&oldid=722386777
Why does it now say, "The principal advance of the Cornish engine was its increase in efficiency due the use of higher temperature steam made possible by a boilers capable of withstanding pressure." ? Rather than the previous, "[...] its increase in efficiency due to expansive working of the steam. "
Firstly this is unclear. An advantage compared to what? Compared to a condensing Watt engine, or compared to a Trevithick high pressure expansive engine? Secondly the added idea (unsourced of course) that the Cornish advantage was from some increased temperature and pressure, when these engines were actually working at lower pressures (and yet greater efficiency) than most contemporaries.
Further issues are the loss of "A Cornish engine pumps by a falling weight that is lifted by the engine." - this was a crucial change contemporary with the Cornish engine, made possible by the switch from bucket pumps to plunger pumps.
Also changing "Trevithick's early "puffer" engines discharged steam into the atmosphere. This differed from the Watt steam engine, which used low pressure steam and so depended in part on the creation of a vacuum when the steam was condensed." to "This differed from the Watt steam engine, which moved the condensing from the cylinder to a condenser separated from the cylinder;" is seriously misleading, as it implies that Watt's changes were to the Trevithick engine, and involved improving Trevithicks's condenser (Trevithick was of course later and non-condensing).
Also change "duty" to efficiency is wrong - far too simplistic, and it also makes no sense when a value of 50 million is still quoted. What's an efficiency of 50 million?
Also, why the change (also at Watt steam engine) from UK to US spelling? Andy Dingley ( talk) 20:42, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
In 1830 naval engineers witnessed trials of Cornish engines achieving 6 times the dusy of Boulton and Watt.
Small, horizontal non-condensing engines added as supplementary power connected to the main drive and exhausting to existing low pressure engines (Truchers) “more widely used was adding a vertical high pressure cylinder beneath Cornish engine’s beam, exhausting to the cylinder of an existing Boulton and Watt engine.
Trevithick high pressure engine ran side by side with a Cornish engine for a number of years with equal duty. High pressure engine cost much less.
Some Cornish engines economy was less than 2 pounds of coal per hp-hr and Cornish engines with steam jackets typically used <2.5 lb coal per hp-hr
Phmoreno ( talk) 21:34, 7 June 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Cornish engine. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110806084534/http://www.croftonbeamengines.org:80/intro.html to http://www.croftonbeamengines.org/intro.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at
{{ Sourcecheck}}
).This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 00:51, 1 December 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Cornish engine. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
- Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150728203846/http://www.croftonbeamengines.org/page13.html to http://www.croftonbeamengines.org/page13.html
- Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.croftonbeamengines.org/intro.html
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 07:12, 13 August 2017 (UTC)
I believe Jonathan Hornblower around 1781, developed almost the same engine type, but because Watt patented most of the technology in 1778 or so, he couldn't sell it. In 1800 or so patents expired, and in 1804 the Cornish engine was basically a revival of the Hornblower design. 2A02:168:F609:0:5F8:C25A:2F16:ECD5 ( talk) 11:42, 26 June 2019 (UTC)